Cookee New Member, new diabetic

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Cookee

Member Since 2022
Cookee is our 13 year old Black and Whitey.

He is a perfect cat. Cuddles, plays, loves peoples and is out oldest.

He developed DM 4 moths ago. We have been struggling with treatment costs and care, as I work 12 hour shifts.

I will post more in the treatment questions , but just wanted to introduce my fur baby.

Currently Using Prodigy meter and strips.
Lantus (Glargine biosimilar) 2 units every 12 hours.

Thankful for all the info from all the "helpers" here
 
Hi and welcome to you and Cookee.
Thanks for the information about the food, insulin and dose. Very helpful.
Have you been keeping a log of all the blood glucose (BG) numbers you have been getting?
We have a spreadsheet here SPREADSHEET
If you could set that up for us and enter some of the data you already have….two weeks would be good if you could, we can see what is happening.

Are you giving a meal before the doses and then a couple of snacks of low carb during the first half of all the cycles?
What does the 11/1/2022 refer to in your signature?
 
So my first post, sorry if the formant is off.

We had our guy running 120-200 midday nadir (+3-4) on pro-zinc. We had been going really slow on dose changes due to our schedule and the inability to get nadirs most middays.

Recently switched in Glargine for cost reasons... He was seeing pretty good nadir about 200 on 2 units.....then suddenly about 2 weeks after that, he has jumped WAY up to pretreatment numbers? (300 all day). It almost like we have started over...but he is at 2 units q12H.

We feed Wet food, 3 times a day 8AM (then shot), 1-2pm Feed, 8PM (feed and shot).

My guess is "somogyi" like effect, But before starting the process of increasing by 0.5U again, I wanted to get some feedback from those with experience.

Thanks in advance.
 
Wow , thanks for the quick reply. I posted more details in the Lantus thread.
I do not have a spreadsheet yet, as unfortunately, we cannot test more often than 1-2 times a day most days. Its terrible I know, but I work in healthcare and have been working 12+ hours 5-6 days a week since COVID. I am lucky to have 10 readings a week :(

I intend to get as many reading as possible this week as I have some time off.

I posting more details on what's happening in the LANTUS thread,

11/01/22 was his diagnosis date.

3 feedings a day (8AM , Snack at 2-3, 8PM....Shots at 8AM and 8PM)
 
Hi again. I am going to ask @Wendy&Neko to move this thread over to the main health forum and combine it with your other thread. We like you to start over on the main health forum so we can get you set up and organised before posting on this page.

Recently switched in Glargine for cost reasons... He was seeing pretty good nadir about 200 on 2 units.....then suddenly about 2 weeks after that, he has jumped WAY up to pretreatment numbers? (300 all day). It almost like we have started over...but he is at 2 units q12H.

It is very possible Cookee is bouncing from low numbers you have not been able to catch. Bouncing happens when the cat drops too fast, too low or lower than he is used to. The body then panics and dumps stored glucose and regulatory hormones into the system and the BG skyrockets. Bounces can last from 1 to 6 cycles and thee is nothing you can do about them.
There is no such thing as Somogyi in cats btw. Is was something seen in the 1930 but has not been able to be proved since.

I would not increase the dose until we have seen some data in a spreadsheet. We are very data driven here. Glargine is a depot insulin, as you may know, and as the depot fills it can effect future cycles. You may be seeing this effect now and the subsequent bouncing. DEPOT INFORMATION

I would suggest feeding a couple of snacks during each cycle including the pm cycle. You may like to look into buying an automatic timed feeder for those snacks.
 
Cookee and her caregiver:

Until you have a spreadsheet and get the hang of how we do things here, we ask that you post in Health. There's a huge learning curve and the assumption on the insulin-specific boards is that you have the basics down. I suspect the learning curve isn't too overwhelming if you're working in health care so once you get a spreadsheet set up and we have some other information, it will be fine to move back over to the Lantus board.

A couple of thoughts. We do ask that you try to get as many tests in as possible. There are many people here who work and/or go to school and have obnoxious commutes and have to juggle those responsibilities with caring for their kitty. I would suggest that you get at least a "before bed" test every night so you can go to sleep without worrying about whether there's a drop in your cat's blood glucose (BG) numbers. We tend to get a bit pushy about testing especially since Lantus dosing is based on the nadir. Since you can't be at home to catch the AM nadir, it's important to get some PM tests to offset what may be missing during the day.

You may want to think about making sure food is available at night as well as the day time snack. Many people here use a timed feeder if you're not already using one.

In addition to the link that Bron provided, this is information on getting started. The information on spreadsheets, setting up your signature, what to have in a hypo kit, etc are in the post.

You haven't mentioned what you're feeding your cat. Would you mind filling us in on what your cat is eating?

You mentioned a few items in your post on the Lantus board. There are two dosing methods we use with Lantus -- Start Low Go Slow (SLGS) and Tight Regulation (TR). While the methods vary in how long you hold a dose, the longest a dose is held is generally a week. It's not surprising that your cat's numbers may have gone up since it's unlikely that the same dose is going to provide consistent results over a long period of time. We also adjust doses in 0.25 increments. Given the limitations of your schedule, increasing by a smaller amount than the 0.5u you mentioned is safer and as a general rule, it prevents you from zooming past what would be a good dose.

As for Somogyi, it really has not been proven to exist in cats. The original concept was first mentioned in 1938 by Michael Somogyi who published a study involving 8 humans. He was also using a fast acting insulin. The paper was published in a local medical journal. It seems to be a concept that should have never gotten any attention since his results could never be replicated in humans, let alone in cats. One of the premier feline vets who developed the Tight Regulation Protocol for Lantus and Levemir looked at data she collected and could not document the existence of Somogyi in cats prescribed glargine.
 
I just want to say welcome. Once you are set up I will see you on the LLB forum. With testing difficult due to your schedule I suggest you look at our SLGS dosing method for now.
 
Ok, I am off tomorrow and will do a full curve for that day.

I wont change anything till after I get a real curve.

We had thought of the auto feeder as well. Its a bit difficult as our other cat has digestive issues and cannot eat the same food. (of course).

But I do not think it can be avoided.

Will report back tomorrow night. I also just loaded the Prodigy software into my computer. It has auto recording and even graphing, so at least the data I can capture will be somewhat useful.
 
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