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Lucy and Julian

Lucy and Julian

Member Since 2011
Julian was diagnosed diabetic on the 3rd of this month.
He had been losing a lot of weight (which I had attributed at first to an increase in exercise- we had just moved to a house with 3 floors, as opposed to the 1 floor he was used to all his life) and his coat seemed dull. He was acting really sick friday the 3rd, so I brought him to the vet for an emergency check up. He has pancreatitis, and his kidneys and liver were inflamed, he had a fever of 105 from what the vet said was an infection due to diabetes.
So he was a sick lil' guy.
He is improving so fast! He is on 1/2 of an Orbax pill 2 times a day, .09ml of Clindromycin 2 times a day, and 1 Denamarin pill a day. He has been getting 1 B-12 shot a week, two more to go. He started off on 3 units of Lantus insulin 2 times a day (I give it to him 6:30am and 6:30pm, give or take a few minutes) but now he is on 3.5 units twice a day.
Today is my first day regulation. I have been testing his BG every 2 hours (much to his consternation) and so far.... its been going UP. We started the day at AMPS 365, +2=391, +4=511, +6=549. For the past few days he has been hovering in the 400 range, before that it was in the 500 range... So I was really happy when he was at 365 this morning. My vet was saying a few days ago he was thinking about increasing his insulin to 4 units.
Has this happened to anyone?
Julian's last bloodwork came back with very positive results, he is alert and active, he is eating well and has gained a little over a pound since he was brought in the first time (he was underweight then, so this is good)
I'm nervous, and of course its only halfway through the day, but I don't want to get a "HI" reading on his next test.
It's also the hottest it's been here in about a week (about 90).... would this affect his comfort level and thus the results?
 

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Welcome Lucy.

From your spreadsheet, my first question is what are you feeding Julian? It looks like you are feeding dry food. If so, most dry foods are high in carbohydrates. It takes a fair amount of insulin (and 3.0u is a substantial starting dose) to overcome the carbs you're feeding. I would comfortably stay that all of us feed a low carb (under 10% and usually half that amount) canned food. I would urge you to read Lisa Pierson, DVM's website on feline nutrition. In addition, Janet & Binky's list will give you an idea of the carb content of what you're feeding as well as a broad range of canned food alternatives.

If you opt to change Julian's food, I would be testing to make sure his blood glucose (BG) levels do not drop too quickly. There are any number of people who have arrived here feeding their cat dry food that's been prescribed by their vet only to find that a diet change to a low carb food cuts their cat's insulin requirements dramatically. It's important to keep your cat safe.

I'd also encourage you to read the starred, sticky notes at the top of the Board. They will familiarize you with how we approach dosing and the dosing protocol we use, some of the key concepts regarding Lantus, as well as help you to get comfortable will all aspects of this forum and feline diabetes.

You might also want to use the spreadsheet that we all use. Not everyone here has Excel. You can find the spreadsheet template and instructions in the Tech Support forum.
 
Hi Lucy:

Welcome to Lantus Land!! I see you've posted in Health...a very good place to start. Here's the link to that post for others who come along today:

Julian's Health Condo

Are you still feeding the DM dry and wet? We typically recommend that you slowly transition Julian off of these foods in favor of a good, low % of calories from carbs, canned food. DM is not the best food for diabetics and dry DM could most definitely be keeping his numbers high. It's important, though, especially at this dose, that you transition slowly. I understand Julian has pancreatitis, but for some cats, just the switch from dry food to canned can drastically drop their numbers quickly so it's important to slowly make that transition. Dry food really raises BG and keeps it there for a very long time.

We have several very experienced folks who can make good suggestions on that transition and on your dose. It's great that you have a spreadsheet started because that will help them very much. I see Sienne has given you alot of the same info and Janet and Binky's chart. Sienne is one of our very experienced folks who can help with dosing and other suggestions.

Please ask alot of questions....we are all here to help. We are a tight-knit group committed to the health of our own and each others' cats.

Good luck and welcome.
 
Hi lucy, Welcome to Lantus Land. You have come to a place with a ton of information and a lot of knowledgeable people. It is great that you are home testing, That is a big hurdle cleared right off the bat.

Very often cats need to go up in dose before we find the correct dose for them, is that what you were asking about? We usually go up in .25 unit increments so as not to miss the right dose. Please read all the stickies at the top of the topics list, especially New to the Group and Tight Regulation Protocol With those numbers unfortunately Julius isn't regulated yet. He will still probably need more insulin. There are a lot of other factors we need to know too.

Since he is on medications and has pancreatitis those are also factors that can elevate BG and need to be taken into account. What has your vet said about food? Unfortunately many vets are not up to date on feline nutrition especially for FD cats. From your spread sheet it looks like he is still getting dry food? Dry food in itself can really raise a cat's BG numbers. We usually try to get our cats transitioned to wet food before adjusting their insulin.. There is a list that has been put together with information directly from the manufacturers that gives information on the % of carbohydrates in cat food Janet & Binky's List. All cats should eat food that is usually less than 10% carbs, 5% or under is even better. Be careful when transitioning, lowering the carbs a cat consumes can have a dramatic effect on BG numbers and thus the amount of insulin needed. Many cats become regulated using food alone.

i hope this gets you started . Others will be along with more expert advice. A little more information will help them.
  • --What are you feeding?
    --Where are you generally? We have peeps all over the world and knowing location can effect time zone considerations. Also there may be someone near by that can help if you need it.

FD has a really steep learning curve, but there is usually someone online to offer advice and support. Even if it is just saying HI to bump you to the top of the list. I'll be back later.

Ann
 
Thanks for the advice!
Julian is currently on 1 1/4- 1 1/2 cup of dry Purina DM that I leave out over a 24 hour period, plus he gets one 5oz can of Purina DM wet food split at two times, about 20min before I give him his insulin. (so about 6am, 6pm)
I do want to transition off of dry food, I had no idea that the even the DM dry was so bad for him! My worry is that he was underweight, and I want to make sure he gets to a nice healthy weight, and doesn't lose it. He was a little over 8lbs when I brought him in, he is about 10lbs now.
I have Friskies Pate Collection wet food that I was going to slowly move him over to, I've gotten feedback that this is a good low carb wet food for him.
We live in Boston, MA.

I think Julian and I are a little frustrated with each other right now... I think he has about had it with me pricking his ears today! But just two more to go... and I know we will both get used to it soon!

P.S.- his last bg reading, at +8 was 558, up again.
 
hi lucy - you've gotten great information to start with, so i'll just say hi.

until you transition him completely off of the dry food you're going to continue to have high numbers and he'll be hard to regulate. my vet had us using dry dm also and he said it was ok, explaining that it was "carbs as consumed" or something like that - but he was mistaken. you want all canned food - the friskies pate are good. if you look at the Janet & Binky's link that you've been given you can check the exact varieties that you have and make sure.

i don't think dry/wet will make a difference in his weight. what will help him regain weight and health is to get the BG controlled, and the wet food is vital for that. oh yeah, and you can add a bit of water (up to about 50%) to his canned food to help prevent him developing ketones with his numbers being so high.

great that you've gotten into the hometesting. make sure you give a tiny treat every time you test and before you know it, julian will accept it. i used to have to peel punkin out from under the furniture to test, but he got resigned to it before long and now he does come when he hears the test strips tube get opened. for him it's all about the treats! :lol:

looking forward to getting to know you and hearing you say that julian is returning to his former healthy self! it'll come! People here do diabetes in their cats 24/7 and are the best experts you could've ever found.
 
Lucy:

One other quick thing after reading your comments. If they didn't tell you on Health, most of us put Neosporin for Pain Relief Ointment (not cream) on our babies' ears after pokeys. It helps alot with the soreness and will also bead the blood as long as you don't put alot on his ears. Are you switching ears and warming them before the pokey?
 
I will start to transition him off of dry food. I'm excited to see this help him!!
I just put some A&D ointment on his ears, hopefully that helps him out a little! And yeah, treats are a VERY good idea. So far he has been getting lots of extra cuddles from me, but today that isn't cutting it!
I have a little rice sock that I use on his ears to warm them up, and I am switching his ears. I get really nervous when I do it, and I'm sure he picks up on that, so I try to take a deep breath and stay calm for him.
 
tell yourself that you're keeping him alive with those pokes! and i have to think they don't hurt that much or punkin wouldn't be willing to endure it for a micro-sized piece of boiled chicken! :lol: :lol: :lol:

my folks used A & D ointment when i was a kid! just pulled up memories when i read that. it's probably fine, but the neosporin with pain relief has a numbing agent. the cats scratched my foot last week and i put it on - I couldn't believe how effective it was at making me completely forget that the scratches were there - and they had really been bugging me.
 
Lucy and Julian said:
... I just put some A&D ointment on his ears, hopefully that helps him out a little! ...
Click to expand...

That won't help reduce discomfort, though it may help the blood droplet bead up, making it easier to test. i second the recommendation to pick up the Neosporin for Pain Relief Ointment.
 
One other bit of advice...

Test, feed, then shoot. If you feed (especially with the dry) first and then wait 20 min., Julian's numbers are going to be influenced by the food. Even though 20 min. doesn't seem like a long time, it's enough time for the pre-shot test to be effected by the food. Lantus takes an hour or two to start working. Unlike shorter acting types of insulin, you do have time before onset. With other types of insulin it's far more important to have fed first. In this area, Lantus is more forgiving.

Most of us test, feed and shoot all in about the space of 5 min.

You should also make sure to not feed withing a 2 hour window before your usual shot time. If you are leaving dry out for grazing, you can add water to canned food and do the same. Many of us use a timed feeder or make "catsickles" (i.e., mix cat food and water and freeze in an ice cube tray and pop out as needed).
 
Thank you Sienne and Gabby!
I like the sound of these catsickles... I will make some tonight for him.
I've been testing him as he eats- it distracts him enough to let me take his blood. Is it changing the numbers as he is eating? Or should I feed him after?

THANK YOU EVERYONE FOR ALL OF YOUR CONTINUED HELP!!! Julian appreciates it for his health, I appreciate it for my stress and peace of mind!

And I'm off to buy Neosporin Pain Relief for those sore ears! :razz:
 
Good evening guys, and let me throw in my welcome!! You've gotten great advice so far! I can tell you that treats will definitely help with the pokes! I find that an economical choice are the purebites freeze dried chicken breast treats, but I buy them from the dog treat aisle instead... bigger bag and a better price per ounce!

You're doing a wonderful job! Please feel free to ask lots of questions... I know I did when we first got here in December and my Willie's health is so much better from all the information and support we've received here.

I look forward to learning more about you and Julian! He shares a name with one of my godsons, so I'm already partial! :lol: :lol: :lol: Have a wonderful evening!
 
Welcome Lucy and Julian to Lantus Land!

You are doing very well and all will become easier as you go along. Some people feed part of the treat before they test to distract the kitty, then give the rest after the test. (if you use the freeze-dried chicken treats from the dog aisle, break them up into small, cat-sized treats). We do the "test--feed--shoot while he is eating" sequence and it works well. Rusty is distracted because he is eating and has his head in his bowl, so it is easy to shoot (or it would be if he didn't have such long hair!)

Good luck on this new adventure and never be afraid to ask questions. We all want to help.

Ella & Rusty
 
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