I know I haven't posted in awhile, it's been really hectic around here and I am going to make time for Smokey more for sure. We have continued home testing, giving the same dose of insulin (.2) twice a day & the same food everyday (2 full cans twice a day & 2 half cans in between those as a snack). Smokey's numbers are all over the place and I am at a loss of what to do now. He is always so hungry even after being fed and he's losing more weight as well, I currently have him on Fancy Feast Classic. Should I switch his food to a different brand. He seems healthy and is doing everything a normal cat does I just don't like the hunger & weight loss. I have updated my ss for anyone who may have any suggestions. Thanks guys!
Confused w/ Smokey's #'s, hunger & weight loss!
- Thread starter wendiz23
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kse
Very Active Member
I can't see you SS-- Work firewalls! But, without seeing it I will make these comments--- unregulated Diabetic Cats are normally very hungry. Along with that goes weight loss, as the food is not able to be broken down for proper nourishment. As Smokey becomes more regulated, you will see the hunger decrease and the weight loss stop. I would not withold any food from Smokey--as he needs the addtional food for nourishment. Also, the FF is fine-- it is not the food causing the hunger and weight loss.
I am sure you will get additional comments, but I will look at your SS when I get home and see if I have any insight.
Hang in There! It will get Better!
I am sure you will get additional comments, but I will look at your SS when I get home and see if I have any insight.
Hang in There! It will get Better!
hmjohnston
Very Active Member
It took Sneakers almost 3 months the first time to stop eating everything in sight (and whine for more 
).
Give Smokey some time to get the insulin working and start getting the nutrients out of the food he needs from the food. Once that happens Smokey will decrease on his own. Sneakers first time was an abrupt halving of her food intake from morning to evening so I hope you have a better gradual withdrawal of the food- as Sneakers has done this time around (got into some kitty crack contraband from the neighbors that screwed her all up on the FD homefront).
Hope this helps.
). Give Smokey some time to get the insulin working and start getting the nutrients out of the food he needs from the food. Once that happens Smokey will decrease on his own. Sneakers first time was an abrupt halving of her food intake from morning to evening so I hope you have a better gradual withdrawal of the food- as Sneakers has done this time around (got into some kitty crack contraband from the neighbors that screwed her all up on the FD homefront).
Hope this helps.
Catannc
Active Member
Sorry, I totally missed this.
I don't think the SS looks bad, you've shot numbers while you've been away that many wouldn't be comfortable shooting but the testing you have supports that they are safe doses. The one exception is the morning of 4/8, that 137 was a perfect opportunity to try the food test and a number that is considered non-diabetic. You feed, don't give insulin, and test in 45-1hr. If the test after food is nearly the same or lower than Smokey has some P activity. Next time you get a ps below 160 I think you should do this.
Looking at your ss, I would guess that he does see Mr. P some days, there aren't a lot of tests but those pmps +2 variations look like Mr. P has been around.
I actually like the dose, I know Mark does the testing mostly so any adjustment in dose would have to be done when he is available to monitor, right?
I don't think the SS looks bad, you've shot numbers while you've been away that many wouldn't be comfortable shooting but the testing you have supports that they are safe doses. The one exception is the morning of 4/8, that 137 was a perfect opportunity to try the food test and a number that is considered non-diabetic. You feed, don't give insulin, and test in 45-1hr. If the test after food is nearly the same or lower than Smokey has some P activity. Next time you get a ps below 160 I think you should do this.
Looking at your ss, I would guess that he does see Mr. P some days, there aren't a lot of tests but those pmps +2 variations look like Mr. P has been around.
I actually like the dose, I know Mark does the testing mostly so any adjustment in dose would have to be done when he is available to monitor, right?
Catannc
Active Member
I don't think the dose is too much of an issue, there is some tweaking that could be done but nothing huge.
I think maybe trying a skinny 0.2 at night into a blue ps and see what that does, the only thing odd going on are those pink amps. The 0.2 works great in the morning, but it doesn't at night. Safer to go down than up, so I say try that first, but let's see what everyone else thinks!
*you mentioned he wasn't drinking as much as before, that's good. He has better numbers since you started back on the insulin, and numbers below 250ish glucose no longer spills into the kidneys so the cat doesn't need to drink/pee as much. Less water intake/urine is a sign he is better regulated now, but you can see that in your tests as well.
I think maybe trying a skinny 0.2 at night into a blue ps and see what that does, the only thing odd going on are those pink amps. The 0.2 works great in the morning, but it doesn't at night. Safer to go down than up, so I say try that first, but let's see what everyone else thinks!
*you mentioned he wasn't drinking as much as before, that's good. He has better numbers since you started back on the insulin, and numbers below 250ish glucose no longer spills into the kidneys so the cat doesn't need to drink/pee as much. Less water intake/urine is a sign he is better regulated now, but you can see that in your tests as well.
C
Carl & Polly & Bob (GA)
Guest
When was the last time Smokey saw the vet? The diet and amounts sound "right" to me so the weight loss doesn't seem logical. There might be something else causing it. (Thyroid?). Maybe a blood panel to find an underlying cause if there is one?
Carl
Carl
He is probably due for a blood panel. The last time the vet saw him he was losing weight as well and she suggested letting him eat as much as he could to gain weight no matter what it was and with his insulin dose sent into 2 hypo episodes and that is why he hasn't been back to that vet and we started home testing. I will probably start looking for a new one for sure.
C
Carl & Polly & Bob (GA)
Guest
If you had to you could get that vet to run the panel and just tell them you want a copy. As long as you have all the numbers, you can find out what they all mean here.
Carl
Carl
Catannc
Active Member
With Carl on this, if you showed your vet your ss I'm thinking there wouldn't be much he/she could argue with you in terms of dose and home testing, your numbers look good. Had the same problem here, as you know, the starting dosage hypo'd kitten and we had to go against medical advice. If I hadn't have found a new more diabetic friendly vet I would have continued using the old one just for diagnostic and wellness testing but told them to shove it when it came to advice on treating the diabetes. If you can't find a new vet, don't stress yourself out...you've got us and also you have a pretty good control on him as is.
Actually, I need to get a panel as well and send it and Kitten's ss to the old vet to show that remission isn't "impossible" and my cat wasn't "hard to regulate". Is that being b*tchy?
Actually, I need to get a panel as well and send it and Kitten's ss to the old vet to show that remission isn't "impossible" and my cat wasn't "hard to regulate". Is that being b*tchy?
Grayson & Lu
Very Active Member
wendiz23 said:
You may want to post in Health and title it NEED FD VET IN DETROIT. It'll get more eyes there.
Catannc
Active Member
Carl, you lurking somewhere? I've been thinking about this for awhile and watching to see if Smokey's pattern changed, but it hasn't.
I think a slight increase is called for, and I think it's on the evening cycle. PMPS are great on .2u into pink AMPS, but .2 into a blue/yellow PMPS gives a pink amps nearly every time. Also it looks like duration isn't as long on the evening cycle, maybe Smokey just metabolizes his insulin differently at night or Mr. P likes to play more during the day.
Any thoughts on sticking with the 0.2u am and trying 0.3u pm?
I think a slight increase is called for, and I think it's on the evening cycle. PMPS are great on .2u into pink AMPS, but .2 into a blue/yellow PMPS gives a pink amps nearly every time. Also it looks like duration isn't as long on the evening cycle, maybe Smokey just metabolizes his insulin differently at night or Mr. P likes to play more during the day.
Any thoughts on sticking with the 0.2u am and trying 0.3u pm?
C
Carl & Polly & Bob (GA)
Guest
Hi all,
Been tied up in Health the past few nights....
LOL, this is funny (to me).... I figured I'd look at the SS quick and did.... all I saw was green numbers, and no numbers at all since 4/9.... and I'm thinking "why isn't the spreadsheet up to date? And what's to wonder about???"
Then I realized I was looking at Kitten's SS and not Smokey's! ohmygod_smile
OK, right SS now..
It amazes me the duration Smokey gets some days on such a tiny dose! The morning of the 16th looks like a bounce, but I am not sure why since he was well used to blue numbers by then. Maybe there's a green hiding in there somewhere that you didn't see?
The 18th, back to long cycles. It can't just be the .2 that is doing this. He must be self-regulating to some extent.
Some cycles, not much at all - the PM on the 18th, AM and PM on the 19th... very little movement from the same dose as always. On the days whatever is going on in his system doesn't happen, you get very little to nothing from the shots. So it looks like the dose is too small. Then he does his tricks, and runs off an 12 hour surf in the blues.
That puts you in a very confusing position. It looks like it is safe to dose him with .2 on a PS over 200-220, and a 300+ for sure. But when you are faced with a blue PS, you don't know what is going to happen if he tries to regulate himself at the same time the shot kicks in.
It would be nice if he'd time a green or two with your tests, because then you could know if there's any bouncing going on. Look at the PM cycle on the19th. You gave him .2 on a 222, and the next morning you saw a 313. Was that due to a green and a tiny bounce? Or was it due to nothing much happened in the cycle and he just went that high because of that?
What is different at night? Is he more or less active? Is the feeding schedule different? Anything?
Carl
Been tied up in Health the past few nights....
LOL, this is funny (to me).... I figured I'd look at the SS quick and did.... all I saw was green numbers, and no numbers at all since 4/9.... and I'm thinking "why isn't the spreadsheet up to date? And what's to wonder about???"
Then I realized I was looking at Kitten's SS and not Smokey's! ohmygod_smile
OK, right SS now..
It amazes me the duration Smokey gets some days on such a tiny dose! The morning of the 16th looks like a bounce, but I am not sure why since he was well used to blue numbers by then. Maybe there's a green hiding in there somewhere that you didn't see?
The 18th, back to long cycles. It can't just be the .2 that is doing this. He must be self-regulating to some extent.
Some cycles, not much at all - the PM on the 18th, AM and PM on the 19th... very little movement from the same dose as always. On the days whatever is going on in his system doesn't happen, you get very little to nothing from the shots. So it looks like the dose is too small. Then he does his tricks, and runs off an 12 hour surf in the blues.
That puts you in a very confusing position. It looks like it is safe to dose him with .2 on a PS over 200-220, and a 300+ for sure. But when you are faced with a blue PS, you don't know what is going to happen if he tries to regulate himself at the same time the shot kicks in.
It would be nice if he'd time a green or two with your tests, because then you could know if there's any bouncing going on. Look at the PM cycle on the19th. You gave him .2 on a 222, and the next morning you saw a 313. Was that due to a green and a tiny bounce? Or was it due to nothing much happened in the cycle and he just went that high because of that?
What is different at night? Is he more or less active? Is the feeding schedule different? Anything?
Carl
Catannc
Active Member
Alright, this makes more sense now.....she's shooting 10/14 because of scheduling issues which hopefully are about to change and allow for 12/12. The question is should she shoot a little more on the 14 until that happens since Smokey never gets too low on the 0.2 and hope that an increase might even out the ps's?
Catannc
Active Member
Bumping this.
Now shooting on the 12 hour schedule, ignoring the one red pmps pre shots are normalizing and decreasing. Holding through Friday to let the schedule change settle in then running a curve on the weekend hopefully? Once smokey settles down and we see what the nadir looks like I think we can do a slight adjustment to the dose and hopefully get nice consistent regulated cycles.
Now shooting on the 12 hour schedule, ignoring the one red pmps pre shots are normalizing and decreasing. Holding through Friday to let the schedule change settle in then running a curve on the weekend hopefully? Once smokey settles down and we see what the nadir looks like I think we can do a slight adjustment to the dose and hopefully get nice consistent regulated cycles.
Of course! I wanna mention that last nights number was high. I fed him at 8pm, forgot to give shot, Mark got a number before shot an hour after feeding but for some odd reason I don't see an after shot so I cant put one for last night but this mornings seemed pretty good. Hope this makes since!
Catannc
Active Member
Alright, a couple of screwy pm cycles but that's okay....you do the best you can! Still, this weekend on a cycle that is shot on time can you get a +4, +6, +8 in addition to the preshots? It looks like when you get onto a steady 12/12 that you will be yellow ps, but how low exactly are you getting midcycle? If we know this we might be able to do a little better and get him below 250 at all times....which would be regulated to the point where maybe Mr. P take back over. You get amazing drops on very small doses, which always seems to bode well....so I keep hold out hope!
So you said something about the pink and now Iwe are starting to wonder about some numbers we have recently had. I know there's some margin of error with the testers but they are starting to drive us insane. Last night and just now we got high 400's then did them like 5 minutes later and got a number about 100 below. Do batteries go bad in these quick and should we change them? Will it erase our information saved?
C
Carl & Polly & Bob (GA)
Guest
What brand of meter is it?
On my Relion Micro, there was a "battery low" symbol that showed up on the display, with no advance warning that it was dying. And in the manual when it told me how to change the battery, I seem to remember where it said that as long as you switched them within a certain time limit, the data would not be lost.
Carl
On my Relion Micro, there was a "battery low" symbol that showed up on the display, with no advance warning that it was dying. And in the manual when it told me how to change the battery, I seem to remember where it said that as long as you switched them within a certain time limit, the data would not be lost.
Carl
Catannc
Active Member
There can be bad tests and also bad strips, I would keep a backup battery in case, but my batteries from around the same time you were dx are still working.
Can you update your ss? If you're still getting those red pmps I am concerned, need to try to keep those shots on time and see if that's the cause or if things are changing.
Can you update your ss? If you're still getting those red pmps I am concerned, need to try to keep those shots on time and see if that's the cause or if things are changing.
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