Confused on IE units, units ml.

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Charlotte & Prop

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Hey everybody.

I am a bit confused.

I am giving Prop 2 IE units twice a day, wich should be the same as 0,05 ml. (1 IE unit = 0,025 ml)
Is IE units the same as units?
If not then how many units have I started to give my cat?

Thanks

Charlotte
 
Ok just read a bit about measurement.
I give U 40 insulin and I use U 100 syringes.
Så when I give 0,05 ml it should be the same as 2 units (thanks Janet and Binky)
Very difficult to understand and i am not quite sure if I right. Please correct me if Im wrong.
Read in a post from Rockys MOM (hypo) that someone wrote that she give 7 units because she wrote she gave 0,07 ml. But that can't be or?????
 
Wow - it'll help if you get U-40 syringes.

Otherwise, I'd make a conversion list and post it somewhere conspicuously!
 
CharlotteDenmark said:
Hey everybody.

I am a bit confused.

I am giving Prop 2 IE units twice a day, which should be the same as 0,05 ml. (1 IE unit = 0,025 ml)
Is IE units the same as units?
If not then how many units have I started to give my cat?

Thanks
Charlotte

Do you have insulin syringes, or some other type of syringe ?
I get the impression you are not using insulin syringes, but some other type of
syringe that is marked in ml. Insulin syringes are marked in units.

IE is the German abbreviation for "International Einheit", which translates to "International Unit".
Insulin is measured in International Units, worldwide--so, yes, IE means 'unit'. We just use the
term 'unit' here.

If you could hold a U-40 insulin syringe up next to a U-100 insulin syringe, you would see
that the "1" unit-mark on a U-40 syringe lines up next to the "2.5" unit-mark on a U-100 syringe.

That's because U-40 insulin is 'diluted' and takes more liquid volume to get 1 unit.
The math is: 100 divided by 40 = 2.5.

You can easily compute (use a calculator if you have to ) which line to draw up the insulin
with this little bit of math: U-40 dose times 2.5 = unit-mark on the U-100 syringe.

Chart:

.2 units of U-40 x 2.5 = .5 unit=mark on U-100 syringe
.4 units of U-40 x 2.5 = 1.0 unit=mark on U-100 syringe
.6 units of U-40 x 2.5 = 1.5 unit-mark on U-100 syringe
.8 units of U-40 x 2.5 = 2.0 unit-mark on U-100 syringe
1.0 units of U-40 x 2.5 = 2.5 unit-mark on U-100 syringe = 0.025 ml
1.2 units of U-40 x 2.5 = 3.0 unit-mark on U-100 syringe
1.4 units of U-40 x 2.5 = 3.5 unit-mark on U-100 syringe
1.6 units of U-40 x 2.5 = 4.0 unit-mark on U-100 syringe
1.8 units of U-40 x 2.5 = 4.5 unit-mark on U-100 syringe
2.0 units of U-40 x 2.5 = 5.0 unit-mark on U-100 syringe = 0.05 ml
2.2 units of U-40 x 2.5 = 5.5 unit-mark on U-100 syringe
2.4 units of U-40 x 2.5 = 6.0 unit-mark on U-100 syringe
2.6 units of U-40 x 2.5 = 6.5 unit-mark on U-100 syringe
2.8 units of U-40 x 2.5 = 7.0 unit-mark on U-100 syringe
3.0 units of U-40 x 2.5 = 7.5 unit-mark on U-100 syringe = 0.075 ml

You can see why we recommend Insulin syringes for U-100 insulin with 1/2-unit marks.
Makes it easy to do small dose adjustments of U-40 insulin.

By the way, here we always discuss doses in terms of TRUE DOSE.

In the chart above, the TRUE DOSE is the number of U-40 units on the left side of
the chart, not the calculated unit-mark on the syringe, nor the ml volume.
 
Er du i Danmark?

Jeg kan ikke skrive på dansk, men er svensk og kan laese dansk og kan du forstaa svensk?


I have BD Micro Fine + Demi - a special BD brand for European markets. 8 mm short needle and 30 G (thickness of the needle)

It's a U-100 insulin syringe, with ½ units marked on it, but it is also a total of 0.3 ml, which is when full it holds 30 IE /U insulin it it. The 0.3 ml/30 IE /U .

IE is the international way, and U/unit is the American way. Here, since site is in America, they use U/units and don't understand a twat when we say IE or mmol/l :lol:

I use the isulin syringe above, without any problems with my vial of Lantus. 0.5 IE/U insulin is 0.5 IE/U insulin in it, the same goes with 2 IE/U insulin is 2 IE/U insulin in it.
 
Ok thanks I begin to understand. My vet is right about the two units it is just because i use u 100 syringes.
But when people write they give their cat 0.07 ml insulin, then it is possible it is not 7 units but only around 2.5 units if they as me use u 100 syringes.

Oh and yes I am in Denmark and can read and understand Swedish :-D
 
CharlotteDenmark said:
Ok thanks I begin to understand. My vet is right about the two units it is just because i use u 100 syringes.
But when people write they give their cat 0.07 ml insulin, then it is possible it is not 7 units but only around 2.5 units if they as me use u 100 syringes.


The other person is giving U100 Lantus using U100 insulin syringes. So that person's dose of 0.07 ml *is* 7 units.

Because you are using U100 insulin syringes with U40 insulin, you would have to draw up to the 5 unit line to get 2 units of U40 insulin. Karen and Smokey's post above explains the difference between U40 and U100 insulin strengths.
 
CharlotteDenmark said:
Ok thanks I begin to understand. My vet is right about the two units it is just because i use u 100 syringes.
But when people write they give their cat 0.07 ml insulin, then it is possible it is not 7 units but only around 2.5 units if they as me use u 100 syringes.

Oh and yes I am in Denmark and can read and understand Swedish :-D


Å men det dejligt att möde en anden Nordmand/kvinde här! Min mor er fra Fyn, Danmarkk og min far fra Göteborg, Sverige. Välkommen Charlotte, det är alltid värst i begynnelsen, men det bliver lättare og lättare med tiden.

Men må jag spör vorfor du bruger en U40 insulin? U40 insulins er blevet skiftet ud fra Sverige till kun u100 insulins. Vad heter den insulin du bruger?

Knus
Ann og Simba
 
Board peeps!


We really need to help Charlotte here, she just started this Monday, and her vet prescribed ..... Caninsulin U40 .....

Almost all U40 insulins (for cats) have been out shifted in Sweden, and I can't get hold of Lantus for her without my vet's prescription. Or I c o u l d .... I have prescripiton for both vials and prescription of cartridges. I could give her my cartridges while she works on her vet to prescribe Lantus to her instead of Caninsulin.

What does the Board of Elders think, should we try help her get her vet to make commence and start writing out Lantus instead? She is all new to this and really need all help she can get.
 
CharlotteDenmark said:
But why is U 40 bad, my cat seems to react pretty good to it?

U-40 is not bad. U-40 is just the concentration (40 units of insulin per ml of liquid volume).



In the USA Caninsulin/Vetsulin has had quality problems.

In the USA, most of us have switched from Caninsulin/Vetsulin to one of the other
veterinary insulins like ProZinc (U-40), BCP PZI (U-40) or one of the human insulins
like Lantus/glargine (U-100) or Levemir (U-100).

I understand that in Europe, it is very difficult to get anything other than Caninsulin, because
no other insulins are approved for veterinary use.

Some in Europe have managed to get Lantus prescribed, when their kitty does not do well on
Vetsulin.
 
CharlotteDenmark said:
But why is U 40 bad, my cat seems to react pretty good to it?


It is Caninsulin, and I think it is for dogs, and many cats who start on that later shift to Lantus or Levemir. The two latter are better for cats and long acting and more steady acting. You can stay with the Caninsulin for so long, but ask your vet if he/she has heard of Levemir and Lantus. He can call my large animal hospital in Göteborg where we go, since they are having hundreds of diabetic cat patients and all are on Lantus or Levemir.

Let's see first though what others here has to say about the Caninsulin.


Meanwhile, here is what I wrote in November on facebook (are you on facebook?, I'd like to add you if ok)

-------------------------------------

Life with a Diabetic


If a person brings in their 2 year old child to the hospital because the child seem sick, the hospital runs blood sample and urine sample tests. Of course the parents are worried sick that it is something serious and that the child will die. After a long wait the doctor comes out to the parents and say: I am sorry, your child suffer from .... diabetes. And he only give them ONE option and that is TREATMENT.



If a person brings in her cat to the hospital because the cat seem sick, the hospital runs blood sample and urine sample tests too. And of course the person is worried sick from all the waiting and that it is something serious. Also after a long wait the doctor comes out to the person and say: I am sorry, your cat suffer from .... diabetes. BUT he doesn't stop there, he continues with giving the person TWO options and the first is DEATH SENTENCE right there and then, or TREATMENT.


This is what happened to me and Simba when he was 10 and we found out he had diabetes in fall 2006, and since he is my kid I chosed TREATMENT of course.



Human diabetics in Sweden gets all their supplies for free, as insulin, syringens/pens, bloodsugar meter and more. Animal diabetics however have to pay the full price and no discounts. But I can live with that, it is my Simba and the only Simba I have.


This is the supply costs we have:

Insulin - Insulatard vial 184 kr/$24

Insulin - Lantus vial 394 kr/$51

Syringes - BD Microfine+Demi 100 pack 165,50 kr/$21.50

Blood sugar meter - Bayer Acsensia Contur 0kr/$0 - Thank you vet hospital

Blood b-ketone meter - Abbott Precision Xceed 0kr/$0 - Thank you Abbott Sweden

Ascensia Contour Microfill 50 blood test strips 362,50 kr/$50

Abbott Precision Xtra 10 blood b-ketone test strips 270,50 kr/$38

Urine testing - Keto-Diabur-Test 5000 50 urine test strips 173 kr/$24

Urinanalysis - Bayer Multistix 10 SG 100 urine test strips 371 kr/$58,56



The Insulatard insulin we used in the beginning, before the hospital was learning about the long term insulins Lantus and Levemir. Besides that they act different the price for Lantus is a huge difference than the price for the Insulatard - and it is insulin we use the most of! Simba's current dose is 5 IE BID and on that we use half a bottle of Lantus every month. Lantus doesn't last as many weeks as Insulatard did, Insulatard lasted for 6 weeks but Lantus for only 4 week.
So take the Lantus cost times 12, a year, that is 4728 kr/$657 for the insulin every year.


The other supply we really need so we can administer the insulin are syringes. They are less expensive than the insulin, and cost for a year 1986 kr/$276.



Now we come to the really expensive supplies and I simply fail to see how the manufactures can justify these high prices on so few strips. A home tester need many test strips, both blood test strips and urine test strips. There is different methods in taking the blood glucose tests. Some do it every morning, in the middle of the day and in the evening, and this they do EVERY day. Let's say they test 4 times a day, every day, 50 test strips won't last long, instead they will need 120. Others don't test every day, but does curves instead over 1 to 3 days. If one do that 50 strips will last. I have my own method to see how Simba's daily BID does function. I can do test at home and do it very seldom, but know from previous testing how he works with his food and insulin. Now I don't test him but govern him by going to the vet hospital and take a fructosamine blood sample every halfyear. When he had over 500 in fructosamine I knew his insulin dose was too low and I raised it to a comfy zone at 5 IE BID, which was just right for now he is in 360, which is very good regulated for a diabetic.


Another supply we have is the Keto-Diabur-Test 5000 which is a urine dip stick. It measures urine glucose level and a-ketone level. It DOES NOT measure the crucial b-ketone level, no matter what advice others give. Moreover it cleary state that in the information sheet that is in the box. To get into the biological technical stuff, the b-ketones are from the long fatty chain and they are so long they can't enter into the urine, but float around freely in the blood system.
The acetone or a-ketones that are what is measured in the urine, are the short fatty chain that has already been broken down.


The only thing that measure the crucial b-ketone level is the blood meter Blood b-ketone meter - Abbott Precision Xceed 0kr/$0. Abbott gave mine for free. I can understand that they can give the meter away for free, when they charge 270,50 kr/$38 for a pack of only 10 blood test strips!


The last supply we have is Urinanalysis - Bayer Multistix 10 SG 100 urine test strips for 371 kr/$58,56. This is the same as the vet hospital use for their urine analysis there. I have used it for screening at home, first learning what is normal on us all three, I, Gustav and Simba, so I can determin when it is not normal and something the vet hospital needs to check.



Through it all, since 2006, Simba is my hero. He is an expert on himself and he has been the teacher and I have been the student.


------------------------------------------------

There is hope Charlotte!
 
Yep I am on facebook under the name of Charlotte Hvejsel (the only one in the world with that name :))

I am pretty happy about my vet and so far Prop is doing good and is playing more and more. So for now I think I will wait until next tjek in a few weeks and not just do anything impulsive.
 
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