? Confused Newbie Just 2 Weeks In with Low (I think) Numbers

Snickers and Chrissy

Snickers and Chrissy

Member Since 2019
Hi, stayed up till 1am last night reading through posts and information on this site, and hoping someone here can help clue me in on what's happening with Snickers.

Her numbers started out in the 400 and 500s at diagnosis, but quickly dropped starting 1 unit of Lantus twice a day. I filled out that chart and I think I added it correctly to my signature, but let me know if it's not working.

So I think first this forum likes pertinent info, right?

Snickers was diagnosed with diabetes 2 weeks ago. We've had her almost 7 months (previously a barn cat). She is overweight but has lost weight with dieting over the last couple months, but she has not lost any more weight I'm aware of since starting the insulin.

She only eats Nature's Variety Instinct Limited Ingredient Diet Rabbit canned wet food 1/2-3/4 can twice a day. Before diagnosis she ate the same wet food twice a day plus a very small amount of the Instinct LID Rabbit dry food, about 1/4 cup every 3 days, more of a snack. Since diagnosis I have taken it away, only the canned food now.

I track at home with the Alpha Trak 2. So 11-19-19 about 3 hours after her injection of 1 unit of Lantus her numbers dropped to 66. I was worried so gave her a few treats. An hour and a half later it was at 92. Pre-shot evening it was only at 130. Vet said to skip the dose and cut her Lantus to .5 after testing the next morning.

The next morning pre-shot number was 151. I gave her .5 and it went down to 83 an hour later. That was the lowest it got all day. Pre-shot evening was 185. I gave .5 units of Lantus.

This morning pre-shot is 112. During the night I checked her twice at she was around 72 both times. I skipped this morning's shot, and gave her some food. I've just checked her after eating about half her food, and her number is now at 76. Doesn't glucose go up after you eat?

I did use the control solution with my Alpha Trak and it claims to be reading accurately.

My vet and everything I've read says it's way too early for remission. My vet is great, and totally open to suggestions and new ideas, and I don't think she understands why Snickers numbers have dropped so quickly over just 2 weeks at such a low dose.

Is it possible she's going into remission this fast? I don't understand either. Does she need less than .5 units? .5 seems like almost nothing as it is. I don't get what's going on. Thanks for any and all help! Questions and direction are welcomed!

Last edited: A moment ago
Snickers Spread Sheet | 7 years old | Diagnosed 11-06-19 | Lantus 1 unit started 11-06-19 | Lantus dropped to .5 units 11-20-19 | Alpha Trak 2 | Wet food only: Nature's Variety Instinct Limited Ingredient Rabbit 1/2 to 3/4 large can twice per day
 
Last edited:
Sue and Luci said:
I see you've recently changed her diet. That often will put kitty into lower numbers. With that in mind, I'd continue to test, give no insulin.
Click to expand...
Thanks so much for your reply Sue and Luci! Before the diagnosis, Snickers was getting the same wet food she is now, twice a day. The only difference was 1/4 cup dry food, but she didn't eat much of it. Sometimes it took her 3 days to eat the whole 1/4 cup (sometimes a little less). Could that little dry food really have an effect? There's so much to learn!
 
Komboochagirl said:
She only eats Nature's Variety Instinct Limited Ingredient Diet Rabbit canned wet food 1/2-3/4 can twice a day. Before diagnosis she ate a very small amount of the Instinct LID Rabbit dry food, about 1/4 cup every 3 days, more of a snack. Since diagnosis I have taken it away, only the canned food now.
Click to expand...
So she has been off the kibble since 11/6?
Thats over 2 weeks ago, so I don't think that has much bearing on numbers just now.

The thing to remember with lantus is that as a depot insulin, even though you have skipped a shot, the depot of the 1u will still be being released into her system and will impact her BG for up to 6 cycles, especially if the depot got a bit overfull because the 1u was a bit much for her. So those lower numbers yesterday are probably not representative of what the 0.5u dose will actually do for Snickers, they are most likely still under the influence of the 'depot' of the larger dose.

With those numbers in the high blues yesterday I think that she likely still needs a little insulin support.
Although the 112 would have felt very low to you, most of us that follow the TR protocol will shoot anything over 50 (human meter) or 68(pet meter).

You could consider dropping the dose back to 0.25u, to give you a bit more breathing space as an option. See how she runs today, if you can, run a curve, and see where she is at by the time her next shot would be due.

Continue testing BG daily especially amps and pmps, and if you are going to continue with insulin, all be it a smaller dose, do get those midcycle checks in.
 
Hi Gill and George, thanks so much for your help. Yes, she's been off all dry since 11/6. I've been reading about the different protocols on this website but I need to reread everything, as I'm slightly confused by them. I think I understand what you're saying about the depot though. I read through the stuff about the depot but will read through it all again to make sure I understand.

So maybe I shouldn't have skipped her dose this morning then? I'll check her throughout the day and see where she's at by the next dose. Maybe I will just drop it back to .25 for each dose and see how that goes. I'm still a little unclear on everything with the dosing but am working hard to learn. Thanks!
 
I love her coloring! It does take time...there's a ton of information here about this complex FD. Just take your time..each day a little more information will stick. For now, the important thing is to keep testing...that is great information to have as you move forward. Keep asking questions too. :)
 
Sue and Luci said:
I love her coloring! It does take time...there's a ton of information here about this complex FD. Just take your time..each day a little more information will stick. For now, the important thing is to keep testing...that is great information to have as you move forward. Keep asking questions too. :)
Click to expand...
Thank you!
 
Last edited:
Komboochagirl said:
So maybe I shouldn't have skipped her dose this morning then?
Click to expand...
I think given that you are new to all this, it was a sensible choice, I wouldn't recommend you shooting green without the help of an experienced member at first.

Komboochagirl said:
I read through the stuff about the depot but will read through it all again to make sure I understand.
Click to expand...
The way I think of it is that when you shoot, part of the insulin goes to work straight away and part of it is stored for slow release.
The size of the depot (how much is stored) is dependent on the size of the dose, so when you reduce the dose it takes the depot a few cycles (upto 6) to stabilise and come into line with the new dose, and until that happens you won't see the full effect of any reduction.

Komboochagirl said:
I've been reading about the different protocols on this website but I need to reread everything, as I'm slightly confused by them. I think I understand what you're saying about the depot though. I read through the stuff about the depot but will read through it all again to make sure I understand.
Click to expand...
It's a lot to take in and with her dropping into good numbers so quickly she hasn't given you much time to absorb it all. I had a good 6 to 8 weeks before I saw even a blue, seeing a ugly sea of pink and red was stressful in a whole other way.

Keep us posted with your progress today, and keep asking questions, I ham in Spain so I will likely not be up when her pm shot will be due. (it's 4.30pm here already)
 
Can you tell me a little bit about how Snickers was diagnosed? Any other treatments for the food intolerances? Any other meds or conditions?

Rawz also makes a pure rabbit canned product that is 2-3% carbs. There are also raw options that are pure rabbit, such as Primal and Stella and Chewy’s, that are low carb.
 
Wendy&Neko said:
Can you tell me a little bit about how Snickers was diagnosed? Any other treatments for the food intolerances? Any other meds or conditions?

Rawz also makes a pure rabbit canned product that is 2-3% carbs. There are also raw options that are pure rabbit, such as Primal and Stella and Chewy’s, that are low carb.
Click to expand...

Sure. She went in for a dental cleaning and they did the presurgical bloodwork and found her glucose at about 450. They checked again a little later and it was like 560. They did that fructoglusaride test (I probably spelled that wrong) and a urinalysis. There was sugar in her urine, and all tests confirmed diabetes.

So she had terrible diarrhea when we first got her. It was all the time. They did bloodwork (5.5 months ago her glucose levels were normal based on this bloodwork) and more bloodwork, checked for parasites, infections, etc. We got her an abdominal ultrasound and I think an echocardiogram too at the same time, both were normal. We tried vet prescribed diets, and LID diets with duck and one with chicken, probiotics. Nothing worked.

We tried antibiotics, and we finally did a combo of antibiotics and steroids for about 5 weeks. The steroids helped but as soon as the dose was lowered, the diarrhea came back. The only thing that finally helped was the Instinct Rabbit Limited Ingredient Diet, plus I got some stuff called Luxolite from this company called Vitality Science, that's supposed to help with diarrhea. The rabbit helped a lot and the Luxolite got her over the hump. She's been fine ever since, regarding the diarrhea.

That's good about the food. I'll take a look at that. I'm reluctant to switch brands since it took so long to find something that worked, but I'm willing to give it a try if it might help the diabetes. Thanks!
 
Last edited:
It is possible the steroids also contributed to the diabetes or at least higher numbers. Was it prednisolone or budesonide? How long ago were they stopped?
 
Wendy&Neko said:
It is possible the steroids also contributed to the diabetes or at least higher numbers. Was it prednisolone or budesonide? How long ago were they stopped?
Click to expand...
It was prednisolone. We stopped it in early August. So I don't know if that could have had something to do with it, I've only just recently realized that steroids can contribute to that. But she didn't have the diabetes before we started, so... I don't know?
 
It's also possible that it wasn't one thing alone that contributed to the diabetes. It's certainly possible that Snickers has food allergies or intolerances. An allergic response is an inflammatory process that puts stress on the system and your kitty's body was likely releasing stress hormones (corticosteroids) in response. As you got the food issues under control, things improved. There also could have been some run of the mill infection and as that cleared, Snicker's numbers are getting back into a better range.

Were Snickers numbers the same at home as at the vet's office?

The other thing that can happen with insulin is that some cats have a very dramatic response. We've seen cats in very high numbers and all of a sudden it's like there's a piece of the puzzle that's been missing, gets found, and everything just snaps into place. Fundamentally, the cat's pancreas "wakes up" (well, is healing) and the cat's dose rapidly gets smaller.

Sometimes, these kitties are just a mystery!
 
Sienne and Gabby (GA) said:
It's also possible that it wasn't one thing alone that contributed to the diabetes. It's certainly possible that Snickers has food allergies or intolerances. An allergic response is an inflammatory process that puts stress on the system and your kitty's body was likely releasing stress hormones (corticosteroids) in response. As you got the food issues under control, things improved. There also could have been some run of the mill infection and as that cleared, Snicker's numbers are getting back into a better range.

Were Snickers numbers the same at home as at the vet's office?

The other thing that can happen with insulin is that some cats have a very dramatic response. We've seen cats in very high numbers and all of a sudden it's like there's a piece of the puzzle that's been missing, gets found, and everything just snaps into place. Fundamentally, the cat's pancreas "wakes up" (well, is healing) and the cat's dose rapidly gets smaller.

Sometimes, these kitties are just a mystery!
Click to expand...
That's really good information, thanks so much! I don't know if her numbers at home were different from the vet because i didn't have the glucose meter at that time. I got it a few days after her diagnosis, and she'd been on insulin 3 days at that time. But, in the vet's office a few days before it had been about 450 and 560. At home when I tested her 3 days after diagnosis and insulin, it was 154.

But I only tested her that one time initially. My vet said I didn't have to test her all the time, and I didn't know better. Now I do. (I actually love my vet, I think she just didn't expect Snickers numbers to drop so fast.)
 
Vet stress can also be a big factor. The numbers you get at home are far more reliable than at the vet's office due to the fact that most cats are anywhere from unhappy to terrified to be at the vet's office. The fear also drives up the numbers.
 
Sienne and Gabby (GA) said:
Vet stress can also be a big factor. The numbers you get at home are far more reliable than at the vet's office due to the fact that most cats are anywhere from unhappy to terrified to be at the vet's office. The fear also drives up the numbers.
Click to expand...
Good point. So when the vet tested her, her numbers could've still been high, just not as high as our vet thought. Makes sense. Thanks!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top