Completely new to all this..

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Bid's Mommy

Bid's Mommy

Member Since 2010
Our cat was just diagnosed Monday 11/22/10 and 2 days later we just did our first insulin shot of Lantus that the vet prescribed. She told us to do 2 units twice a day and from what I've been hearing on here it seems high? Would you recommend that I lower it to 1 unit a day? Also our vet told us not to worry about home testing but we should if we wanted too but that we would go back in 1 week to test his BG. I've decided to go out and get a glucose meter tomorrow and just do it anyways cause it doesn't make sense that she wouldn't want us to know what it is. I asked her if his BG was lower should I not give him the insulin and she said that she would worry about that. Which I don't understand at all since it's not like she can see him every day!

I've gotten some great advice form the main FDMB forum but was told to come to this forum also.

Sorry all the numbers are really confusing in the subject area, I don't quite get all that yet.
 
welcome, and hooray for home testing!

wise ones will be along to help with your questions...just wanted to let you know you have found a wealth of info and support here...and some humor as well.

celi & binks
 
hi Jen



welcome to the Lantus forum!
is your kitties name Bid?

here is a quick link to your first thread from the Health forum: viewtopic.php?f=28&t=30522&p=315982#p315982
handy for others to glance back.

some of my replies are in blue below:

Bid's Mommy said:
Our cat was just diagnosed Monday 11/22/10 and 2 days later we just did our first insulin shot of Lantus that the vet prescribed. She told us to do 2 units twice a day and from what I've been hearing on here it seems high? ....

from what I've seen in your health thread, the consensus is it may be best to start at 1u....
however, does your kitty have any history of ketones?
did you vet check for ketones in the urine?
did your vet take any blood gluscose readings?
Do you know how much your kitty weighs?

Would you recommend that I lower it to 1 unit a day?
Also our vet told us not to worry about home testing but we should if we wanted too but that we would go back in 1 week to test his BG. I've decided to go out and get a glucose meter tomorrow and just do it anyways cause it doesn't make sense that she wouldn't want us to know what it is.

Good for you! Taking control of the situation is a good first step.
It's not going to be a breeze, but with practice , patience and perseverance, you can do this! It does get easier!
Click to expand...


If you have any numbers to share from your vet visit, please let us know.

In the meantime, another question: what is your kitty eating? have you considered changing to a low carb wet food diet?
are there any other known health issues?

Others will be along to offer their feedback, in the meantime, please read our stickies, up top, (the threads with the "star" icon)
you'll want to familiarize yourself with how Lantus works, the shed, storage and handling, dealing with low numbers etc...

EDIT: I should really mention the protocol used here in Lantus Land :lol: Lantus & Levemir: Tight Regulation Protocol please read thru this, maybe print it out as well as the other info threads here.

And ask all the questions you want, no question is a dumb one. We are here to help!
 
Hi,

Yes my kitty is named Bid (Full name Iddy Biddy.. A mistake of naming him that when I was 18 so I nickname him Bid) He has quite a few nicknames ;-)

He has not had any history of ketones, and the Vet did a Urinalysis today and said there were no ketones in the urine. She also did some other tests and said she'd call tonight if anything came up and she never called.

He weights 14 lbs and she said she'd like him to come down to 12 lbs. His BG was 383 the first time they took it on Monday and today when they took it, it was 374. She seemed kind of surprised we would want to test at home!

I really want him on an all wet food diet and our Vet gave us the Purina DM canned food the first day (he didn't like it and wouldn't eat more then 1/4 of it) so then she gave me a bag of the Purina DM dry food (after I told her I didn't want him on dry food) But she said it was better then the Fancy Feast diet. And she said to him 1/2 his regular dry food and 1/2 the DM dry food to get him use to it.. She said since he likes to graze on the dry food all day to give him 1/2 the amount of dry food and then wet food in the morning and night...

Thank you everyone! I can't get over how helpful and quick everyone is on this site!
 
I'm fairly new here also. My experience is similar to yours. Maverick's vet started him on two units and from what I was reading it would take a couple days for the insulin shed to build up and then the insulin would start working more once the shed was filled. But he dropped the very first day and I reduced him to 1 unit - it was after hours for my vet so she wasn't there to advise. (I was home testing and had found this site on the first day of Lantus. Maverick is still doing great on 1.0.)

Then I was told by the vet if she wasn't available to skip a shot - I knew from reading the stickies and this forum that Lantus isn't done this way. You can't just miss doses and wait for the vet to call. His vet actually got mad at me and scolded me like a child. I was torn between what I had read here and listening to the person with the white coat.

So when I got a questionable number I called to ask what to do and she wasn't in until 1PM. How can she manage his dosing when she isn't available. And she didn't give me a plan of any kind that I could follow when she wasn't available.

I am managing Maverick's diabetes 100% with the support of everyone here and what I've read. I have the confidence in the research here. Most vets don't seem to want to manage diabetes like we do here. They don't have the cycles to do it either. That hurts our cats.

So I suggest you read as much as you can. Arm yourself with knowledge. Ask questions. And hopefully your vet doesn't have a bloated ego like mine did and isn't defensive and will be supportive of your home testing and reading. I think they will think we will get needy with hometesting, or realize we don't need them ;) You'll get a feel for what works for you soon.

Also Maverick is doing amazing on Walmart Special Kitty Turkey and Giblets. Much lower in carbs than any dry food on the market. Have you checked out Binky's food list? Lie to your vet and say he won't eat the kibble ;)
 
Hi Jenn - welcome! your cat's name is Bid? Good to meet you both!

With the holidays upon us, I'm not sure who all will be around, so I can give you one or two helpful hints to get you started here.

Lots of experienced people here, patient and helpful. They will need to know Bin's medical history. They will want to know about Bin's diet, any other health problems, any other medicines, lab tests and results if you know that sort of stuff. They'll want you to start a spreadsheet (SS). can't really do that til you have your meter but you can read up as your time allows. I'll brb with a link.

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=18207

Get your meter, get your spreadsheet going. and pop back in here, lots of folks to greet you and walk you thru the home-testing thing.

You've hit the ground running - well done you!
 
Hi Jenn and Bid!! Welcome!! I know how overwhelming this all seems..I was a newbie myself only a few months ago (oh geez, since July...I can't believe its been since then!) but you are now in the RIGHT PLACE!! Everyone here is SUPER helpful and I swear its better than having a vet...although its completely recognized that no one is a vet and can't tell you what to do with your cat (cause each one is different) but you will get just a wealth of knowledge and experience on here that no vet (in my opinion) can even compare with!!
 
Our Vet said the same thing.. to just skip the shot!! I asked since tomorrow is Thanksgiving and we will be gone from about 10-6 should we give him his morning shot since we wont be home all day to monitor him and she said just don't give it to him in the morning but give it to him at night. She wants us to do it once at 6:30am then 12 hours later at 6pm but told us to skip the morning one. Which I thought was odd..

I'm thinking that's my plan, telling the Vet he wouldn't eat the dry food and bring it back. I understand she just wants to sell us the DM food so I'm torn cause I want to do the best for my boy but when I asked about how expensive it was all she could say was diabetes is an expensive disease and if you want the best for him you have to pay for the best!!
 
Hi Jenn,

Bid is so lucky to have you as his mommy! I am new here, but not new to feline diabetes. My cat (Star) was diagnosed 2.5 years ago on Father's day. We started her on another kind of insulin and I wasn't home testing. Star had a terrible first year (as did I!) with numerous crashes (seizures) because I didn't have a clue as to what her BG was and was blindly dosing her. Finally I realized I owed it to her to do more. She hasn't crashed one single time since I started home testing her. My vet didn't teach me, I learned by watching videos on YouTube. I also didn't find this amazing support group till recently.

I'm so glad your kitty won't have to go through all that because you are here and home testing! Bid has a great future! :mrgreen:

You will find many helpful, caring people here to give you guidance. Follow their advice and you will be fine.

Welcome!

Rebecca
 
Hi Jenn. Welcome to Lantus Land.

I love how proactive you are! By all means, arm yourself with knowledge. Learning about feline diabetes (FD), having a meter and strips and the right food will make this far more manageable for you and Bid will be healthier as a result. The starred, sticky notes at the top of the Board are a good place to start. There is a huge amount of information there. Start with the New to Lantus/Lev and the Tight Regulation stickies. They will help to get you oriented.

My vet suggested DM, as well. I did my homework. One of the first sites I found was Lisa Pierson, DVM's site on feline nutrition. I returned all of the prescription food my vet sold me because it was filled with animal by-products. In reality, Fancy Feast is both lower in carbs and has a better quality of protein. For what you're spending on prescription food, you can by the high quality, "gourmet" cat food. In addition to Dr. Lisa's site, Janet & Binky's list gives you a wide range of choices for LC food.

The folks over on the Health board will be very helpful in getting you started on home testing. Depending on where you live, there may be an FDMB member who can come by and give you instructions in person. You will want to get a spreadsheet set up so you can keep track of Bid's test data.

As far as starting dose, one way to calculate dose is based on ideal weight. Initial dose = 0.25 x ideal weight in kilograms. Most cats end up in the range of 1.0u or a little more. If you are not going to be able to monitor for a few hours after you give a shot due to the holiday, it may make sense, especially from a safety standpoint, to skip the AM shot.

Please let us know how we can help.
 
Bid's Mommy said:
Our Vet said the same thing.. to just skip the shot!! I asked since tomorrow is Thanksgiving and we will be gone from about 10-6 should we give him his morning shot since we wont be home all day to monitor him and she said just don't give it to him in the morning but give it to him at night. She wants us to do it once at 6:30am then 12 hours later at 6pm but told us to skip the morning one. Which I thought was odd..

I'm thinking that's my plan, telling the Vet he wouldn't eat the dry food and bring it back. I understand she just wants to sell us the DM food so I'm torn cause I want to do the best for my boy but when I asked about how expensive it was all she could say was diabetes is an expensive disease and if you want the best for him you have to pay for the best!!
Click to expand...

Vets are very well aware that too much insulin can be dangerous (risk of hypo) and too little insulin is not (so much - well, hardly ever) - so for most people, who let their vet manage it all and thus only get BGs at the vet office (once in a blue moon), this really is "safer". In that scenario, most vets think that numbers in the 200s-low 300s are a sensible goal (once again, "safe"). But lower BG numbers (<100, that can promote possible remission) ARE achievable - and safely - but only if the bean is willing and able to "test and test often" (even if that means right through the night, sometimes).

Until you get going, do read all the stickies (and some other "Starred" posts too, that aren't yet granted 'Sticky' status!!) - try and get the on-line Google Docs SS and Profiles done, if you can. Read up on all the jargon, and before you know it, you'll wonder what all the fuss was about!

Good luck and WELCOME !!!!!!!!!!!!! :-D ! Oh - and Happy Thanksgiving!!
 
Hi Jenn and Welcome! :mrgreen:
I use the Walmart Reli-On micro glucose meter...the test strips are not too expensive and are readily available usually at my local Walmart. We use a Spreadsheet attached to our signatures. Here is the link to the post int he Tech Support Forum that explains how to se yours up: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=18207

Home testing is something that we all do to monitor the Blood Glucose throughout the day. You will be in charge if you have a meter and learn to do the testing. I am so happy to see you here and look forward to your future posts... :mrgreen:
 
Hi Jenn,

I'm really glad that you decided to post on the Lantus forum. You will get lots of help here. Happy Thanksgiving, and WELCOME to you and Bid.

Ella
 
Welcome to the board! :)

I know where you're coming from with regards to the DM food. Blackie was on the DM food when she was given ProZinc, and at the time, was given 8 units 2x a day. She went into a hypoglycemic episode, and I dropped her down to 1 unit 2x a day, and immediately switched her food to Fancy Feast. She's been on it ever since. Now, she's on Lantus, too. I also hometest now, too, and have been doing it for 5 months. Cats can get stressed out at the vet's, hence the high BG #'s. The car ride can also stress them out.

All I did was do a lot of researching, and talking to people. You'll learn this as you go along. :) Trust me, it WILL get easier.
 
Hi and welcome!
You will get tons of information here..My baby was just diagnosed the beginning of the month, and already with the help of everyone here, I am feeling more confident in my abilities. Without question I know where to turn in my time of need with the FD or even just to vent!
Is a fantastic place to be!!!
Happy Thanksgiving!
 
Hi again, Jenn!

My vet sold me a giant bag of dry Royal Canin DS Diabetic food. Giving a diabetic cat is like pouring gasoline on a fire.

These are the foods I feed my kitties:

Merrick BG (Before Grain)
Beef
Chicken
Turkey

Wellness
Beef & Chicken
Chicken
Turkey

Merrick
Cowboy Cookout

Evo
EVO 95% Beef
EVO 95% Chicken & Turkey
EVO 95% Duck
EVO 95% Venison

Once you find which food(s) your kitty likes, you can ask your local pet store about frequent buyer savings. I have a store in Cincinnati called "Complete Petmart" and once I buy 12 cases of food, the 13th is free. That's a pretty big savings when a case is $48! I usually buy Wellness 12.5 oz cans because I have 4 kitties and the 12.5 oz can is $1.99 and the 5.5 oz can is $1.59. Much cheaper to buy the bigger can.

There are ways to save money and make this disease manageable! The ReliOn meter saved me so much! I was using the vet's Alpha Trak that he let me borrow. They were charging me $1.35 a strip! What a rip off. I did a side by side test with my new vet of the Alpha Trak and ReliOn and they were off by one point! :)
 
One more thing...

Take a look at Sue's spreadsheet: https://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key ... utput=html

Look at 10-13-10. I gave Sue no dry food without reducing his insulin BECAUSE I did not do my homework thoroughly (do not do this)! Look at what his numbers did. Tell me low carb canned food doesn't have a direct impact on BG levels! At that point he was on a different insulin.

Starting 10-18-10 he went on Lantus and low carb canned only. Look at his progress. It was amazing!!

Keep your chin up! You are doing a great job!!! Your kitty thanks you so much!!!
 
Welcome to Lantus Land, Jenn and Bid, and Happy Thanksgiving!! You've already gotten a wealth of great info so I'll just pop my head in here and
tell you that you are at the best place to help Bid. The experience, the knowledge, the assistance....it's amazing in the FDMB and in the Lantus group. We
are a tight-knit group and there's usually always someone around to answer questions and help you through the first time Bid's BG comes into the normal range
and you are not sure how to handle it. Please ask lots of questions ...don't be afraid to do that because more knowledge is more power in dealing with FD. You
will find that food is your big partner in managing Bid's BG and Jenny has given you a list of awesome foods which are the exact ones I use (and many of us use).
They are high quality proteins and pretty low in % calories from carbs. I've just gone one step further and provided, below, the % calories from carbs on most of them (a couple of them, Gracie won't eat so I don't have those numbers). I have recently contacted the companies and so the numbers are below are up-to-date.

Merrick BG (Before Grain)
Beef --1%
Chicken--2%
Turkey--1%
Chicken/Quail--1%

Wellness
Beef & Chicken--4%
Chicken--4%
Turkey--4%

Merrick
Cowboy Cookout--5%
Surf -n- Turf--3%

Evo
EVO 95% Beef--4%
EVO 95% Chicken & Turkey--2%

Great to have you....we'll be having a "welcome home party" for Rusty soon so hope Bid can come!!!

eta: Sue is one of the lucky ones to have just recently gone Off the Juice (OTJ)!!!! It's attainable for many cats.
 
Where do you guys get those kind of foods? Petsmart or a special pet store? We went to Wal-Mart earlier and picked up some Fancy Feast (like a case of 20) but each is only 3oz I believe and I'm not sure how much I should feed of that and how often.

We also picked up a Relion Confirm Glucose Meter.. I hope that's a good one.. Plus the strips but they didn't say "sipping" action (I couldn't find those)

I'm going to attempt to make a spreadsheet in the next few days if I can figure it out lol but seems like its very helpful.
 
Yes, Petsmart carries some. I would also check with your local pet food stores. In Cincinnati, we have Complete Petmart, Pet People and Jack's Aquarium, to name a few. I would call around and see if any offer any frequent buyer programs. Then you can go and buy a few different varieties and see what your kitty likes. I love the Merrick BG variety because it is also very low in phosphorous and i have a civilian kitty who has chronic kidney disease.

Good luck!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
Some of the fancy feast kinds are high carb foods though - ones that we keep in our hypo kit if our cat's go low. So check out Binky's list that a previous poster linked to, to make sure you are feeding the lower carb ones.
 
Jenn...

I've been able to find all of those foods at PetCo but also some of our local feed stores have them but they are pricier and don't tend to carry the small (3 oz size or so) cans that I prefer. On the FF, just be sure you check Janet and Binky's chart because we also use some of the high carb FF varieties (like grilled chicken feast in gravy) for steering low numbers. You want to be sure you are giving BID canned foods that are in the low carb range (under 10) but I think most of us strive to feed under 5% and just use foods above 5% for steering numbers. I buy the Wellness pouches with gravy for steering...they have a ton of gravy and are the right % carb for my little girl (Example: last night Gracie's BG fell from 219 to 131 in two hours...a little too fast, so I gave her 5% food with a little 9% gravy and got her to just stay right around 130 for several hours; since she was working on a new, reduced dose, I didn't think she'd get below 100 on it but for her, the faster she drops, the more she bounces back up). You can take a peek at her SS and see the bounces...alot of cats do this esp at first; I keep track of what I fed her and when so I know how she's reacting to the food.

I think several people use the Relion...I don't know anything about the strips for Relion. I use an Ultra One Touch Mini because it's small, the strips require a tiny bit of blood, it sips. The glucometer is cheap but the strips are not. It's important that you keep that in mind...if you test as much as many of us do, you'll go through alot of strips and it can get costly. I do buy my lancets at WalMart..I like the Relion Ultra Fine 30g in the box of 210...very inexpensive and Gracie is easy to do ear pokeys on so I don't need the bigger gauge to get blood.

Yes..the sooner you get your SS up and running, the sooner the more experienced people can provide you with their comments on dosing suggestions, etc. They've been extremely helpful to us as I cannot always see the forest for the trees and they are good at spotting trends and giving you ideas.
 
Hi Jenn and Welcome to FD,

With all the good advice you'll recieve from this site you will feel completly in control of Bid's diabetes.

I use a Reli On Ultima meter from walmart. The strips are less expensive than most. It doesn't have the sipping action that my Accu Chek has but it doesn't take much blood and it works fine. The meter will make a noise when it has gotten enough blood for a test, so there is no guessing. When you set it up just make sure the beeper is on. I would get one and try it out, you'll do just fine.

Also the Reli On syringes are inexpensive too. 12-15$ for 100. They come in 1/2 unit markings also.

I get:

31 gauge
0.3cc
5/16" [short needle]
1/2 unit markings

Hope to see you posting soon.

Happy Thanksgiving.

jan and sara
 
Tons of great advice from so many people! Welcome to you and Iddy Biddy. Sorry you have to be here, but glad you found FDMB.

Food: it can get expensive. When I got started, I bought a couple cans of a few different kinds of wet food from the pet stores, then had my two cats do taste tests. (and yes, any food that's good for Iddy Biddy is also good for any other cats you might have - see Dr Lisa Pierson's website that Sienne and Gabby linked above). After I found a few that both cats would eat, I bought in bulk from PetFoodDirect.com, when they had their 20-22% off sales. Much cheaper and they deliver it to your door.

(I know that PetCo carries Wellness, Merrick BG, Merrick Cowboy Cookout and Grammy's Pot Pie, and Innova Evo, as well as the Fancy Feast) but you might look in the specialty stores too.

best of luck. Post in the tech forum if you need help with setting up the spreadsheet!
 
So.. We got home at 6:30 from Thanksgiving dinner and did his first BG home test (I think that's how you say it?) And his BG was 381 then we gave him 2U of the insulin and fed him 3 oz of the Fancy Feast Chopped Grilled Feast (It was on the list of good food). The first time we took his glucose it was so easy, we were kind of wondering how we got so lucky! Well we decided 2 and 1/2 hours later to take his glucose level again and it was 341 (this time around didn't go so easily, Bid didn't mind the first time at all, this time he wasn't very happy and it was because it took a while to get any kind of blood out of ear :(

Anyways, I'm not really sure how much food I should feed him still or how many calories/ounces he should be getting.. And if I should completely stop dry food right now or gradually.

Thanks again and I'm going to look into those foods! Worth a shot.. Bid scarfed down his Fancy Feast tonight! He wouldn't eat the DM food like that at all!
 
Jenn, Great job with the BG testing!

I'm new here, but are you warming his ear? Warm ears bleed nicely in my experience.

Happy Thanksgiving!!!
 
If you take him off all of his dry food, you will most likely need to reduce the insulin. I think some people already posted that most start with only 1.0 u of Lantus. There are much more experienced people than me, but I would end all dry food and give 1.0 u of Lantus.

Hopefully Libby or someone more experienced will answer.
 
Bid's Mommy said:
...We also picked up a Relion Confirm Glucose Meter.. I hope that's a good one.. Plus the strips but they didn't say "sipping" action (I couldn't find those)...
Click to expand...

The ReliOn Confirm sips - lightly touch the end to the blood drop and capillary action draws it right up.

Its good enough - the FDA allows home use glucometers to be within 20% of the "real" glucose value. At high numbers, this band is very wide; at low numbers less so.

For example:
100 could be from 80 - 120, a range of 40 points
200 could be from 160 - 240, a range of 80 points
300 could be from 240 - 360, a range of 120 points

However - at low or high numbers, that variability isn't likely to change what you will do. Just keep it in mind if you get very low (40s for example) and know that if you double test (do 2 at a time) you start narrowing in on a more accurate value.
 
I may have missed it, but make sure you check ebay for test strips. I use a freestyle lite meter & the strips at Walmart are something ungodly like $80 for 50. I usually get 100 for around $45 including shipping off of ebay.
 
Jenn

Dr. Lisa's website also talks about how many calories a day a kitty needs; she has a couple formulas...one for reducing and one that's a simpler formula. I calculated both for Gracie and then adjusted downward as gained weight on one formula but was very hungry on the other. So the basic idea is....if they gain weight, feed a little less and experiment with that slowly. If they lose weight, feed more. Alot of us feed on a schedule and you want to be sure you are always feeding BEFORE you test. I have a chart of all the foods I feed Gracie and how many calories are in each oz of that food. I feed her 150 calories/day (she's a small cat) so I know she will get 75 calories in the a.m. and 75 in the p.m. I take her alloted amount of food in 75 calories and divide it into 4 "minimeals". She gets 1 minimeal after her Preshots (PS), +1, +2, and +3. If you are going to test at those times, always TEST FIRST and then feed. I also usually give her a 1tsp very low carb snack at +6 or she gets way too hungry. And then I don't feed her again until after her next PS test. Alot of folks feed this way; some have different techniques...but we say here "every cat is different" (ECID) so you will need to figure out what works best for Bid. You do need to be careful if you are stopping dry food and giving 2 units but I also agree someone more experienced with that needs to help out.....Gracie has never gotten dry food but I know BG is affected alot by it.

And yes, it helps if you have a rice sock or something you can warm and then warm the ear first. Don't poke the vein...just along the edge of the ear. You both will get used to it over time and you'll get quick!! Good luck and keep asking questions!
 
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