communication barriers, etc

[Allie & Gen]

@Sienne and Gabby (GA) , @Marje and Gracie , @tiffmaxee , @Christie & Maverick , @Tyleete -

I am bringing this conversation to its own thread, because it seems very unfair to @Holly and Sunny Bear that it continue in her thread about her own cat's needs.

I don't intend this to be harsh or defensive but dismissing TR because you haven't had time to read the information is akin to saying, "Don't confuse me with the facts."

I apologize if I came off that way, but I don't believe I did this - I haven't dismissed anything. Rather, I've pointed out that occasionally newer members will question the advice or guidelines we've been given (which isn't dismissal, it's attempting to engage and understand better), and the responses we get are akin to being shut down (rather than being corrected in a way that helps the confused person to understand). This is where some frustration can come in:

Anyone can choose to do that but probably will not get dosing advice.

We’ve discussed this issue many times over the years.

New members should not do custom dosing. By the time someone has determined their cat needs custom dosing, they should need very little advice although we are here to support anyone at any stage.

I can only speak for myself, but: I'm not advocating for going on instinct, and in fact, evidence-based treatment is exactly what I look for and respect. I'm currently working on gradually transitioning my own cat's diet to be able to follow TR as instructed in the post. My initial response to Holly's thread/dosing question was to provide her with a quick summary of the protocol guidelines around dosing decisions (with a link to the post), as I know the board gets busy and I wanted to make sure she got a prompt reply. I'm new and not able to extrapolate on them much, but I can at least share the existing information I've been around long enough to know how to reference.

I think we got here, conversationally speaking, because Tyleete then asked me a question and I responded with cautious curiosity, while citing the fact that the protocols were put together with careful reasoning that I have not yet fully understood. In engaging with the question, I was careful to include a disclaimer that I don't feel equipped to have a definitive opinion, much less recommendation, on how one might adapt the existing protocol (or if one should). I only had a purely theoretical sense that it might be possible. It could have been phrased better, I'll gladly admit, and I'm sorry for that. (Not to mention that we had started going badly off-topic, having that discussion in that thread!) I was still surprised that the responses I got were simply "no, you can't do that" without any reference to why or pointing us to relevant information.

None of the moderators or experienced members would tell anyone "this is how we do things." At the minimum, if anyone has a question, Marje, Wendy, or I will do our best to provide background.

This has not quite been my experience, to be honest. I don't mean this as an accusation! I think it's understandable that some responses may be short/repetitive/lacking in much background - you're all doing quite a lot of work and have dedicated a lot of time here, and I genuinely appreciate that. (Also, it's not as though new people are always phrasing questions in a cogent or even partially informed way, and goodness knows the questions get repetitive - I've already noticed that, with the constant flow of new people, many of whom don't read any introductory guidelines before they start posting.)

At the same time, as this is an inevitably very distressing experience for most people dealing with a newly-diagnosed cat, it can be hard to feel like you're being asked to tow a line you don't understand. (And I really can't see that it's unreasonable for someone to struggle with fitting in reading through a library of background information going back years when they're balancing a demanding medical situation with everything else in their life. This isn't me being anti-science or anti-facts, when I am anything but; I'm just thinking about the importance of triage when you're trying to absorb so much in the midst of distressing experiences.)

We also ask that you do not coach other members to do what you're doing since it is a dosing plan that is customized for your cat.

I think this might be part of the issue we're running into right now? What I saw as discussion, some of you perhaps read as coaching, and that's understandably concerning when you're someone with experience and knowledge and concern about people without those things leading others astray. I am sorry for my part in causing any such concern! I would never presume to do anything like that. I have gleaned enough about the long history of this community and the careful work that has been done, with scholarly research and materials as a basis in addition to peer-reviewed community aggregation of experiential data, to have considerable respect for the expertise (and effort) here.

And I thank you for taking the time to write out the full response, Sienne, that you shared in the other thread, about the amount of work, research and care that went into creating the protocol guidelines as we have them now. I don't mean to undermine any of the credentials, care, or expertise of anyone involved in putting them together.

I'm a professional science writer/communicator. What I'm seeing here, overall, is some bumps in communication, which is why I suggested that I might be interested in trying to put a helpful digest together for people who would like to understand the science behind the protocol, but have some constraints on their capacity to read through a library of information while trying to also manage everything going on in their lives and their cat's new medical needs. (That said, I'm currently in that position myself! So it's an aspirational idea.)

Sorry, this has gotten far too long - I want to be very clear, but it's challenging to be concise in trying to untangle what feels like a lot of miscommunication from well-meaning people. I want to apologize for any of my own missteps that have helped to get us to this apparent point of contention. My goals here are a) to help my cat (always first and foremost in my mind), b) to understand as much as possible (that's kind of my whole deal), and c) to give back as I can to this community that has already given me so much, whether it be by emotional support, by helping link people to resources they haven't found yet, or by maybe helping in some small way to continue improving some of those resources if I can do so, with respect.

If you took the time to read my absurd wall of text, thank you, and I'm sorry, I will try not to do it (quite so much) again!

 

[Tyleete]

I feel Sienna replied great and don't feel the need to keep going. I'm glad there are people open minded like that here.

 

[Sienne and Gabby (GA)]

Allie --

Thank you for responding with a broader explanation of your perspective. I suspect the other confounding variable in all of this (and which you know as a writer) is that what we may discuss in a face-to-face conversation takes advantage of all sorts of nonverbal cues as well as immediate feedback if something isn't clear. Written communication doesn't have that advantage and can be subject to misunderstanding. We all do our best to respond.

I do know that there are times when I essentially run off at the mouth. It's one of the unfortunate aspects of being an academic. And, the opposite can also be true. There are times when I am brief if not brusque. Usually, the latter is a reflection of my putting out fires at work or in far fewer situations, I've been repeating information or see that other experienced members have been saying the same thing any number of times. It is truly helpful if someone lets us know that they are having a hard time wrapping their head around what's been posted. Everyone's communication style is different and it can be challenging to sort out what the best way to disseminate the information is.

The other consideration is that especially at the outset, it's hard to know who's input to rely on. At times, newer members will post at length and unless a more experienced member (e.g., a moderator or someone who's been here for a lot of years like Christie or Elise, for example) picks up that the person who has posted has made factual errors, it's going to be confusing. I will encourage people to look at the "member since" info below a member's avatar as well as make sure if comments about dosing are provided that the information is reflective of the insulin you're using and consistent with the sticky note info on dosing methods. And, of course, has the person taken your cat's medical history into account? I will also freely admit that even moderators can miss information. It's why we keep posts in the public forum. There have been times when I've missed something.

The wonderful thing about this community is that we can work together. It's a team effort. We want to not only provide solid information on feline diabetes and it's management but want to provide support given how overwhelming this can be at the outset. As I often post in new members' threads, we're here to help.

 

[tiffmaxee]

Sorry if you took offense at my comment but it is true that you can choose to not follow our dosing methods. However when that happens many of us will not feel comfortable
giving dosing advise as our advice is based upon our methods. Slight modifications after trying the methods as written are sometimes necessary but I think there needs to be some uniformity or things can get chaotic. Those of us who donate our time are here to pay it forward as we were helped when we first tried to understand the complicated feline diabetes. Sometimes we just have a few minutes to spare and need to be brief.

 

[Allie & Gen]

Sorry if you took offense at my comment but it is true that you can choose to not follow our dosing methods. However when that happens many of us will not feel comfortable
giving dosing advise as our advice is based upon our methods. Slight modifications after trying the methods as written are sometimes necessary but I think there needs to be some uniformity or things can get chaotic. Those of us who donate our time are here to pay it forward as we were helped when we first tried to understand the complicated feline diabetes. Sometimes we just have a few minutes to spare and need to be brief.

I wasn't offended, just illustrating a point. I understand why answers might need to be short, and as I said above, I am immensely grateful for those of you who put in all this time and care. I also can't blame anyone if they feel frustrated for dealing with the same questions or confusion over and over again.

Regarding the specific quote - it's also perfectly reasonable to hesitate to give dosing advice if someone isn't following the familiar and well-tested methods, of course! It's just that when you're upset and trying to figure out what's happening with your beloved pet, it can be a little distressing when questioning an approach you don't understand is answered with a warning like that.

(All of this is why at some point I may see if I can put together a few new reference materials, to add to the already excellent ones here, if that winds up being agreeable.)

In any case, these kinds of miscommunications happen and I think we all understand that we all mean well and want the best for everyone's cats. I'm sorry for my part in any unpleasant feelings that may have arisen. Thanks for taking the time to respond.