Clydie is diabetic

Status
Not open for further replies.
Clydie's gwanmaw

Clydie's gwanmaw

Member Since 2013
Hi, confused_cat

I'm new. Have a mufti-cat (5) household. Clydie is a 7 year Burmese (Yes, beautiful, gentle giant)
Diagnosed May 2, 2012. Pancratitis. They sent him home to die. But through hard diligent work, immediate change of diet, he didn't. WE chose not to use insulin.
Slowly, he began to get well,, though for a time he had dropped 3 pounds & his beautiful Burmese fur turned gray & white.
Over 15 months of his special diet he has slowly put on 1.6 lbs. He is happy, social, bored.
His vet visit last week show's he is still diabetic. Vet said he needs to begin insulin therapy at some point as he ages though for now with consistent & diligent care he is "cruising".
I must sit with him & the other 4 during meals. They have all been changed to wet food & the other 4 don't eat Clydie's RX. He will lay in wait for a chance at theirs, which doesn't happen often.
Bottom line, I'm researching glucometers, & all the cost involved in insulin therapy. Honestly, I not frightened, I'm scared.
Thanks for any encouragement.
Clydie's gwanmaw
 
Hi. I am relatively new. My Ozy was diagnosed the beginning of July. It takes a little while to get your sea legs.

Ozy also has pancreatitis and that is a bigger deal in his case than the diabetes. It is harder to treat. He is on B12 shots, buprenorphine for pain, and Cerenia for nausea and pain. I think he now understand that the bupe really helps him and he is fine about getting it.

You need a reliable glucometer whose test strips won't cost so much. Walmart Relion micro is working well for me and for many on this forum. You can order them on line if, like me, you don't want to set foot in Walmart.

I was concerned about testing but Ozy doesn't really mind. He is on Lantus and doing well with it.

There are directions here for setting up a Google docs spreadsheet to track his glucose that others can see.

I am sure that someone more knowledgeable than me can help you with more details. This site is an amazing place with amazing people and lots of help.

donaleen
 
Hello and welcome to the board

No need to be scared, we can help you get him regulated. Most cats that will go into remission do it within 6 months of diagnosis assuming both insulin and a food change so remission might be unlikely now that its been so long.. but you can still have a happy and healthy diabetic cat - who can live just as long a lifespan as a non diabetic cat.

So
1. Food - what are you currently feeding? Wet food is great but unfortunately not all wet foods are low enough carb - sounds though that you might be feeding prescription DM? Let us know. We need a food under 10% calories from carbs.

2. Insulin - the best insulins for cats are Lantus, Levemir or prozinc. They are I believe in the US $150 or something like that but that amount will last you six months if you keep it in the fridge. Pluys some pharmacies will sell you a pen for like $25 that will last just as long depending on dose. If you dont live in the US let us know!

3. Home testing - Again assuming you live in the US here is a shopping list with rough costs..if you dont live in the US again let us know and we can revise:

1. Meter ie Walmart Relion Confirm or Micro. $15 Note the prime is cheaper but not a good meter for newbies
2. Matching pack of 100 strips $36 . Note the prime is cheaper but not a good meter for newbies
3. Lancets - little sticks to poke the ear to get blood . new members usually start with a larger gauge lancet such as 28g or 29g until the ear learns to bleed. $6 Optional - lancing tool. $6
4. Cotton balls to stem the blood $3
5. Neosporin or Polysporin ointment with pain relief to heal the wound $8
6. Mini flashlight (optional) - useful to help see the ear veins in dark cats, and to press against $2
7. Ketone urine test strips ie ketodiastix - Important to check ketones when blood is high $7
8. Sharps container - to dispose of waste syringes and lancets. $4
9. Treats for the cat - like freeze dried chicken $4
10. Karo syrup/corn syrup or honey if you dont have it at home - for hypo emergencies to bring blood sugar up fast $3
11. A couple of cans of fancy feast gravy lovers or other high carb gravy food- for hypo emergencies to bring blood sugar up fast $2

Wendy
 
If you are already giving insulin, focus on learning to home test the glucose, for Clyde's safety.

If you are not yet giving insulin, focus on transitioning to a low carbohydrate canned or raw diet. Switch about 20-25% of the food each day to ease the transition and avoid most GI upsets (nausea/inappetance, vomiting, or diarrhea). If necessary, stay at 1 mix level for 2 or more days to make the transition slower.

An excellent resource on feline nutrition is Cat Info. There is a printable PDF of common US/North America foods and the percent calories from carbohydrates, fat, and protein. Select those with less than 10% calories from carbohydrates. Have a few high carbohydrate gravy-thype foods to use in low glucose level emergencies.
 
Here are some glucose reference ranges used for decision making using glucometers. Human glucometer numbers are given first. Numbers in parentheses are for non-US meters. Numbers in curly braces are estimates for an AlphaTrak.

< 40 mg/dL (2.2 mmol/L) {< 70 mg/dL for an AlphaTrak}
- Treat as if HYPO if on insulin
- At nadir (lowest point between shots) in a long term diabetic (more than a year), may earn a reduction.

< 50 mg/dL (2.8 mmol/L) {< 80 mg/dL for an AlphaTrak}
- If before nadir, steer with food, ie, give modest amounts of medium carb food to keep from going below 50 (2.8).
- At nadir, often indicates dose reduction is earned.

50 - 130 mg/dL (2.8 - 7.2 mmol/L) {80 - 160 mg/dL for an AlphaTrak}
- On insulin - great control when following a tight regulation protocol.
- Off insulin - normal numbers. (May even go as low as the upper 30s (1.7 mmol/L){60s for an AlphaTrak}; if not on insulin, this can be safe.

> 150 mg/dL (8.3 mmol/L) {> 180 mg/dL for an AlphaTrak}
- At nadir, indicates a dose increase may be needed when following a tight regulation protocol.

200 mg/dL (11.1 mmol/L) {230 mg/dL for an AlphaTrak}
- no shot level for beginners; may slowly reduce to 150 mg/dL (8.3 mmol/L) {180 mg/dL} for long-acting insulins (Lantus, Levemir, and ProZinc) as data collection shows it is safe

180 - 280 mg/dL (10 - 15.6 mmol/L) {may be 210 - 310 mg/dL for an AlphaTrak}
- Any time - The renal threshold (depending on data source and cat's renal function) where glucose spills into the urine.
- Test for ketones, glucose is too high.

>= 280 mg/dL (15.6 mmol/L) {may be >=310 mf/dL for an AlphaTrak}, if for most of the cycle between shots
- Uncontrolled diabetes and thus at risk for diabetic ketoacidosis and hepatic lipidosis
- Follow your insulin protocol for dose adjustments
- Test for ketones; if more than a trace level of ketones, go to vet ASAP.
 
Hi Clydie and your granmaw and welcome to the FDMB. What is granmaw's first name?

What has you so scared about the insulin therapy?
 
:dizcat :RAHCAT party_cat flip_cat dancing_cat
HUGE THANK YOU TO EVERYONE THAT HAS POSTED.

I'm cross eyed & brain overload researching, saving, printing, etc. This site is wonderful & WOW, are we grateful. Clydie's vet web has plethora of info too.

Onward I go on the journey of keeping Clygie & the remaining of my FELINE FIVE well & happy. (and reduce my own stress level & overbearing angst of their well being. A walk on the beach might help.)

Blessings for a good day to all & your beloved feline fur babies,

Clydie's Gwanny Ann

P.S. Cydie has a twin sister-litter mate- Bonnie.. Sitari, Missy, Willow round out the five confused_cat
 
Welcome Ann and extra sweet Clydie!

You've already got lots of info so I'll just send a BIG HUG! You can quit worrying now...you landed in the right place! We LIVE feline diabetes daily. There's no reason to be scared, it's not hard to handle, just different. If it were something hard to do, I wouldn't have adopted another diabetic KNOWING he was extra sweet! The MOST IMPORTANT THING right now is to get a meter and determine Clydie's bg levels yourself. If he needs insulin, PLEASE start it - without insulin, a cat will literally starve to death while eating everything in sight. The body requires insulin to USE the food.

BIG HUGS AGAIN!
 
Thank you Sqeaky & KT,

Picked up Relion Confirm & accessories today, even id chicken treats. So tomorrow I arm myself with knowledge & dig in with all two paws., after practice run on myself.

Clydie is stable for now. He stopped wasting months ago & finally gradually gaining ounces. A good thing. He was immediately changed (all 5 actually) from dry to wet & he on the RX MD day he was diagnosed 15 months ago. DR. didn't want to begin insulin then. Lot's of love, prayer, feeding him day & nite to get & confined to the kitchen during feedings.
Took him in for his ckup last week & BG was high, I know was some due to vet stress, but Vet says insulin is in his future so that's why I'm preparing.
For now, he is the most energetic of all 5. Poor guy, I'm always shoving food at him when sometimes he just wants to play or be held. I'm learning.
Aren't they precious!!!
Hugs to you & your little "kids" cat_pet_icon dancing_cat :dizcat :RAHCAT
 
Ok cool

here are testing tips https://docs.google.com/document/d/13c_CPZVKz27fD_6aVbsguadJKvjSrSAkD7flgPPhEag/pub > Let us know how you get on - some cats are easier than others.

You are feeding the MD prescription wet? You know that there are non (cheaper) prescription wet foods you can give right? ie fancy feast classic pate flavours, friskies pates? let me know if you want more info.

good luck on the testing - let us know how you get on and then we can set up a tracking spreadsheet..
Wendy
 
thank you Wendy& Tiggy,

Yes, wet. He was so ill when the Dr. put him on the MD that while he is stable & not yet on insulin, I don't want to rock the boat.

The other 4 eat Friskies pate & I can't wait to gradually change him over. I've noticed the protein is almost as high as MD. Difference in MD is ingredients are all bovine which my understanding (thus far) is important for diabetic.

I noticed his dark brown is returning & all fur that turned grey & even white from when so sick is gone. He's my most active right now.

Other priorities (like Humans) have prevented the start of testing.

I did begin a log of food intake today.

Ann
 
Ok cool - well let us know how you get on with the testing.. remember a treat even if unsuccessful. Try three times and give him a break if it doesnt work.

Key things

- ear has to be real warm
- if using the lancet freehand have something hard behind the ear to press against
- bigger lancets - if you got ones that are too fine it can be difficult for a newbie ( you want 28 or 29g or thicker (lower numbers))

Wendy
 
All this info helps.

Meter is programed & ready to go. Plan is to practice on me this a.m. then do him I guess at the 2 hour after a meal as he has had breakfast.

lancets that came with meter are 30, additional box is 26. All Walmart had at time. Perhaps best if I try the 26 on me first to get grasp on process.

Thank you for the info.
 
probably not stupid question.

Ready to test Clydie.

Have been searching everywhere WHEN to test.
and unable to find definitive answer


He's not on insulin.

Do I test before meals & then 2 hours after?


At this point I just want to get curve on his level & then talk to vet about insulin.

Any/all help to this question appreciated.

Ann
 
Since he isn't on insulin I would test before his next meal then two hours later. Then do a couple of spot checks at various points over the next few days or until if/when he goes on insulin. Like a morning check before brekkie, then a midday every day.

Wendy
 
LOL LOL. Love your kitty talk. "brekky".. we call it "brek a fas"

Done... before lunch 274

will do again at 2:20 -3

He did well even with a small spider that appeared in the bathroom. he loves "spiddies"

thank you..

we are on our way. bcatrun_gif
Ann
 
Fantastic job on your first successful test!

274 is too high.. Let's hope he shows some lower numbers over the next few days before we make any decisions,, but it looks like he is going to need insulin... a normal cat is 50-130... But we don't advise newbies to shoot under 200.

Do you have a prescription for insulin?
Wendy
 
No RX. I wanted my own numbers to take to the vet this week. Then he can access & show me what to do.

Clydie's 2nd numbers taken 2 hours later were down to 257.

I'm interested to see what he tests first thing in morning before brek a fas
 
Lets see how it goes. Both those numbers are within meter error so kinda the same.. But maybe tomorrow it will be lower again..
 
Also I believe the md might be too high in carbs you could try the friskies pâtés on him to see if it will bring him down more?
 
And soooo expensive... I've wanted to do that for a long while but not cold turkey.. It's what the other 4 kids eat.. I just don't want to rock the boat.. maybe when I feel not so shaky getting his blood & see how stable numbers are I can begin change while watching blood.. Right now just don't want to shock his body with sudden changes. nailbite_smile

Too, he was just really sick.. steroid caused pancratitis..

Initially, vet hoped he would heal himself as he has many cats that do.. but I think his pancreas was too damaged.

Thanks,
Ann
 
It's too early to know that about his pancreas. He may well need help with insulin. Maybe start slowly transitioning in the friskies over a few weeks? What other changes have there been to his system?

Wendy
 
If you change only 20-25% of the food per day it often reduces or prevents GI upsets from food change.
 
He's improved over the past 15 months. 1000% turnaround..
gained back a bit of weight, no more thirst or excessive hunger or pee. Fur color has turned to normal, has weight on his back bone & hips. Not the skinny, dehydrated guy he was.
Behavior is normal, silly happy Clydie again. Wakes me up at night playing.

So i was surprised that his BG was so high at his ckup last week
I watch him like a hawk.
These 5 kids are my life

I won't allow another vein draw for blood unless critically necessary. While it was necessary when he was diagnosed w/ pancreatitis, it traumatized him badly.

Vet said he is stable for now but will need insulin in the future. So that's what I'm preparing for.
He asked if I wanted to start insulin last week.
I didn't.

I'd rather talk to vet before I change food just yet. MD has 11% protein, don't see carbs listed.

Too much change boggles me.

Clydie seems fine, I'm the wreck.

Have humans that have needs at moment too.

Thank you so much for your guidance.

I'm trying.. sigh

Ann
 
Clydie's gwanmaw said:
...I'd rather talk to vet before I change food just yet. MD has 11% protein, don't see carbs listed....
Click to expand...

We go by percent of calories from protein, fat, and carbohydrate, which is not listed on the container. The food chart at Cat Info has all the details.
 
That site BJ listed is researched by a prominent cat diabetes vet and she spoke to cat food manufacturers to get the carb %. It says MD is a tadge too high (better BG control is achieved under 10% and we prefer under 8% or lower) and of course its expensive. The vet will probably want you to keep using this food as many are not that experienced with feline diabetes and tend to trust their pet food manufacturer sales rep. Plus its $ in their pockets.

Try not to stress - Clydie is doing ok right now and we are going to help you make him even better!

Let us know how the BG are today!

Wendy
 
Steroids can also cause diabetes. If that is the case with Clydie, after getting him on that low-carb food and hopefully only a short time on insulin, he may become a diet controlled diabetic like my foster cat Wink.

Sending you big hugs. Sounds like you are dealing with a lot of issues right now. Let us know how else we can help make things easier for you.
 
Thank you BJM, Wendy & Deb...

Cat info food chart was overwhelming & I just feel like crying right now.

Clydie was difficult to draw from before breakfast. BG was 269--lower than I thought might be after all nite w/o food. (of course I can't leave it out. Sitari & Missy would scarf that down before midnight)..

His ears are black & even with the flashlight I can't see the blood. It shows first on the cotton or my finger from the inside of his ear.
I thought of pricking from the inside but that made him so unhappy & squirmy. Any suggestions? Even if I shave the ear, the skin is black.'
Thought of getting the strongest readers I can find & perhaps that would help.

I'm familiar with the vet as her info was first I read when I began researching 15 months ago.

Thank you all for helping me thru this. ugh ohmygod_smile

Ann

(I know the vets make money off everything that is sold thru their offices. I have not nice thought about that.) cat(2)_steam

Thank you for the hugs. Three hugs litter boxes to clean & ck.

may ck Clydie's BG before lunch.
 
It's ok deep breaths.(hugs)

On the chart you want to look at the column C that says calories % . That's the % calories from carbs. For example the friskies, meaty bits, beef in gravy is 19% but the friskies , classic pâté, salmon dinner is 9%. Generally pâtés are better than anything in gravy.

You could try collecting the blood on your fingernail and testing it from there?

Wendy
 
Wink has black hair and black edges on his ears too. I did shave a tiny patch on his ears at first. At least that way, the blood wasn't being hidden by his long fur. The fur on his ears grew back quickly and having that bare spot really did help me in the beginning, to see the blood.

I'm also blind in one eye and need much brighter light these days to see things better with my aging eyes. I had one of those clip on reading lamps, so I put a 100 watt lightbulb in it and clipped that lamp to the towel bar in my hallway bathroom. That became our testing spot.

Sometimes, putting the triple antibiotic ointment with pain relief on BEFORE you poke, will help the blood drop to bead up better.

Are you using the lancing pen or free handing the lancet? If free handing, the lancet should be at about a 45 degree angle. The pen is held flat against the ear.

Readers may help, as may a headband type magnifier.
 
And all kinds of magnifiers are available from our shopping partner, Amazon (link at top of page). I have crappy vision, and found the Carson Clip and Flip were very helpful. They clip on existing glasses and may be flipped up out of the way when not needed.
 
Wendy, Deb & BJM,

Bathroom light is bad but only privacy from other 4 kids. Missy didn't help this a.m. as she smelled Clydie's chicken treats & ran her paw under the door. by the time I finished, he didn't want the darn treat, only breakfast.

Afternoon draws went better as I caught him on a table by the window, then on the kitchen floor . Where the other 4 were I don't know & wasn't about to ask.
But I could see the blood. And I used his left ear, vein seemed larger.

have drawn from my finger nail as read that was one option if needed.

Ok on trip. anti biotic first. It's cream though, not ointment.
Use free lancet. Pen is worthless for me.

Oh Wendy.. column C is a big help. Other kids eat Friskies pate's only No gravies.

Ok on Amazon. Walmart might have the headband magnifier too.


Plan to make appt this week for vet to begin insulin.

Off to bed. Thank you all. Furry paw hugs & purrs

Ann
 
The triple antibiotic cream has been reported to make the blood soak into the fur. You might want to try the ointment version instead. Or a tiny dab of petroleum jelly works good too.

What have the BG readings been?
 
It's ok, no need to be nervous about starting the insulin for Clydie. If it's needed, it's needed and will make him feel better.

Many people find that giving the shot is actually easier to do than the ear testing to get a BG reading.

Be sure you get Lantus, Levimir or Prozinc. Those are the only good insulins for cats.

Bathroom light is bad but only privacy from other 4 kids. Missy didn't help this a.m. as she smelled Clydie's chicken treats & ran her paw under the door. by the time I finished, he didn't want the darn treat, only breakfast.
Click to expand...
Yes, I remember those early days, when I had to concentrate on Wink and the bathroom was the only room to get some privacy. That's why I brought the reading lamp into the bathroom to give me better lighting.

I had to block out all the other distractions from my other cats. Also had to make changes to get everyone on the new feeding schedule for Wink. They didn't get any food until he had his test, shot, food. They have adjusted, but boy, the "I'm starving yowls" were tugging at my heartstrings.
 
Wish us well. Clydie sees vet at 11:20 a.m. PST to begin insulin.

Will take his glucometer to see how checks out with vets.

Blessings to all and will update you.

Ann & Clydie
 
Hope the vet visit goes well. We will be waiting to hear back on how things go and hoping you get a good insulin prescribed.
 
Thank you all. :-D

Home, resting went so well.

Levemir is his choice for cats, especially stable as Clydie is. (expensive)

Showed me hands on, both our hands on the syringe as we stabbed & I injected. And syringe for rectal karo suppository if needed.

Following the protocol I felt was needed.

And vet was happy I had joined. FDMB

Will do GB soon & go to bed.

Blessings,
Ann & Clydie
 
Great! You might now want to set up a spreadsheet to track how he does - heres how but let us know if you need help with it http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=18207. Its a good idea to get a few tests every day - mandatory before the shot to make sure he isnt too low (As a newbie thats under 200), one midday (5-9 hours after shot) and one before bed. The midday one will tell you how low he is going as thats the number you base a dose change on

Also there is a board dedicated to members who use PZI which you might want to check out http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewforum.php?f=24

Wendy
 
Thank you Wendy,

Still getting the feel of it.

I Spent one day crying as he was hungry & couldn't eat yet, & the poking his ear & just all that stuff you have felt.
All 5 have now all adjusted to 2 meals per day 12 hours apart.

His first GB after first Levelir was 60. I freaked & Dr. cut dose down by half down to .5 unit from initial 1 unit. Was low does to begin with.

Anyway, results much better.

Will ck in next week with vet.

Vet says Clydie is a half "ass-ed" diabetic so we won't go aggressive. I agree.

Ok, will ck out the spreadsheets.

for now i'm keeping track hard copy in notebook file.

Ann
 
Ann,
Clydie is so lucky to have you!!!

Spreadsheet - when KT was first diagnosed, I too kept his records in a notebook. I kept thinking "I've got the info, I can look at it any time so I'm not going to go to the trouble to set up a spreadsheet yet...". Then I bit the bullet and did it and I'm SO VERY THANKFUL that I did!!! The thing you CAN'T see on paper copies is the trend of the numbers when they're all posted together.

BIG HUGS!!!! You got it goin' on Lady!
 
69! Wow. Whats his BG like now? Can you share some readings? Remember as a newbie we dont recommend you shoot under 200.

(hugs).. its a tough learning curve but it soon becomes routine and its worth it when you see their happy little faces and energy come back!
 
Clydie's gwanmaw said:
...All 5 have now all adjusted to 2 meals per day 12 hours apart...
Click to expand...
It is OK to leave the food down for grazing the 10 hours after the shot. Pick it up 2 hours before the next shot so the test is not food-influenced.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top