Chuck's bouncy journey, part 7.
- Thread starter StephG
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Kris & Teasel
Very Active Member
Looking good, Steph. He didn't stay plastered up on the ceiling from the carb/bounce.
StephG
Very Active Member
I got a PM about Chuck's diet. Saying I needed to "stop the carbs, test 3 times a day +6 & +8 and follow TR..."
Seemed quite rude and I'm pretty annoyed by it. I can take some criticism. I have pretty thick skin but to be told I'm doing it wrong by someone who basically just glanced at his SS irritates the **** right out of me.
Asked me why I'm feeding pumpkin and karo. Really? Suggested olive oil for constipation. HAHA I'm sure that would help his suspected (not officially biopsied and confirmed just loosely (no pun intended) DX by symptoms) IBD issues. SMDH.
I entertained myself and answered the questions but ended it with the fact that I consult on here REGULARLY and feel like we have it under control (as in trying to figure him out)- we are finally getting somewhere with his numbers and will continue to take care of him as we see fit.
Anyway. Almost time for AMPS. I think he might be red or black. Hope not "HI".
Seemed quite rude and I'm pretty annoyed by it. I can take some criticism. I have pretty thick skin but to be told I'm doing it wrong by someone who basically just glanced at his SS irritates the **** right out of me.
Asked me why I'm feeding pumpkin and karo. Really? Suggested olive oil for constipation. HAHA I'm sure that would help his suspected (not officially biopsied and confirmed just loosely (no pun intended) DX by symptoms) IBD issues. SMDH.
I entertained myself and answered the questions but ended it with the fact that I consult on here REGULARLY and feel like we have it under control (as in trying to figure him out)- we are finally getting somewhere with his numbers and will continue to take care of him as we see fit.
Anyway. Almost time for AMPS. I think he might be red or black. Hope not "HI".
Kris & Teasel
Very Active Member
About that PM, Steph: I completely understand you being annoyed. It's great if people offer suggestions that have helped them so long as it's done tactfully. It might be better if those people posted on the forum, though, so others can see the advice. Sharing widely is what keeps this wonderful place going.
As for olive oil for constipation - olive oil is a digestible oil so it gets broken down as part of fat digestion into its component fatty acids, etc. Oil for constipation has to be in a non-digestible form like mineral oil/petroleum jelly. Pumpkin works because it has a lot of fibre which absorbs water and bulks up the stool. That's part of the reason it has a low glycemic index too.
Notice I'm posting this publicly on your thread in case other people might find that info helpful.
Kris & Teasel
Very Active Member
This is familiar to me ... from PM I got a while ago.
StephG
Very Active Member
Yeah that's the thing... A little more tact and I would have thought of they are really just trying help but this just seems almost demeaning and came off quite rude and I told them so.
I like giving some advice on things I have some knowledge about but try my very best to stay in my lane and make suggestions by saying what has worked for me and might work for them after reading what is available about their cat... I have read some threads and thought, wow that's crazy and would never work for Chuck. But knowing ECID I don't criticize them or tell them it's wrong. I guess it just really struck a nerve because they clearly knew nothing about Chuck's sugar dance and jumped right in with I'm doing it all wrong. But honestly, WHO on this forum really believes ANYONE is feeding kayro on the regular?! Anyone at this for more than a week who has read the sticky notes will see karo and know it was a stressful and potentially dangerous situation they were trying to avoid. Anyways. Sorry you all had similar PM's too...
Don't be afraid to give me advice. I need it and it's used daily!!!
He's doing great on the 5.6 this morning!
+2 377 (or 357 I can't remember even though I just looked through the meter ten minutes ago)
+5.75 189
+7 209 (hopefully not going up already)
Hoping for a nice surf.
Might not get another reading til PMPS. Plumber is coming to look at our boilermate... Keeps clicking over and over driving me even more insane every second! I also ran out of hot water 5 minutes into my shower! That was a fun game. (Sarcasm)
Thanks to all of you who give advice. I REALLY do appreciate it all. Thanks for letting me vent... I'll try to just ignore it next time and stay focused here!
I like giving some advice on things I have some knowledge about but try my very best to stay in my lane and make suggestions by saying what has worked for me and might work for them after reading what is available about their cat... I have read some threads and thought, wow that's crazy and would never work for Chuck. But knowing ECID I don't criticize them or tell them it's wrong. I guess it just really struck a nerve because they clearly knew nothing about Chuck's sugar dance and jumped right in with I'm doing it all wrong. But honestly, WHO on this forum really believes ANYONE is feeding kayro on the regular?! Anyone at this for more than a week who has read the sticky notes will see karo and know it was a stressful and potentially dangerous situation they were trying to avoid. Anyways. Sorry you all had similar PM's too...
Don't be afraid to give me advice. I need it and it's used daily!!!
He's doing great on the 5.6 this morning!
+2 377 (or 357 I can't remember even though I just looked through the meter ten minutes ago)
+5.75 189
+7 209 (hopefully not going up already)
Hoping for a nice surf.
Might not get another reading til PMPS. Plumber is coming to look at our boilermate... Keeps clicking over and over driving me even more insane every second! I also ran out of hot water 5 minutes into my shower! That was a fun game. (Sarcasm)
Thanks to all of you who give advice. I REALLY do appreciate it all. Thanks for letting me vent... I'll try to just ignore it next time and stay focused here!
Kris & Teasel
Very Active Member
Feel free to vent, Steph. ECID for sure.
Sue and Oliver (GA)
Very Active Member
This is not OK. Steph. One, dosing advice should never be given by PM. Only general info - Maybe food or tricks for getting levels etc. But the biggest issue is that we don't have a TR (tight regulation) for ProZinc and people should not be advocating for a method that is not used on the forum and can be dangerous with a non depot insulin. I hope you will consider reporting this person (there is a place to report a post). I know you weren't intimidated, but if she /he had done the same to a newer poster who didn't have your experience and knowledge, and they had started using TR with a PZI kitty, it could have been deadly. If he/she feels free to give you such advice by PM, he/she probably feels free to do it to others.
Kris & Teasel
Very Active Member
I hope you're enjoying your holiday with with family, Sue.
I'm very glad you responded to this because I was also the recipient of a PM a short while ago that appears to have been from the same person. I can't prove it but the mention of "test 3 times a day +6 & +8 and follow TR" suggests that it was. I replied politely expressing the forum's stance on TR with ProZinc and let it go. I now know that someone is proselytizing and I agree that it could well lead an inexperienced member into a serious situation.
I'm still learning about how the forum works and I was a little put off by someone criticizing what I'm doing with my cat. I felt that shutting down any further conversation was the way to go.
Kris & Teasel
Very Active Member
FYI Steph:
I thought more about Sue's post and I reported the PM I received a while ago that seems to echo some of what yours said. She made a very good point about the PMer possibly saying similar to less experienced people.
I thought more about Sue's post and I reported the PM I received a while ago that seems to echo some of what yours said. She made a very good point about the PMer possibly saying similar to less experienced people.
StephG
Very Active Member
ABSOLUTELY! I will report. I looked at their profile and they joined November 2016!! What in the world!? I mean good for them getting into remission in 2 or 3 months but I looked at the spreadsheet NOT on prozinc and saw some 30s and 40s--- my anxiety spiked just from looking at it! I can't imagine going through numbers like that every day! Also made their own list of cat food carb values that seem way off. FF classic chicken at 10?! Yeah- no. Maybe they need to reevaluate their info.
Rachel
Very Active Member
Glad you are reporting! As Sue said...the mention of the TR really upsets me because we don't follow any sort of TR protocol. One exists but it is, quite frankly, dangerous. We've had a few folks come here who say they are following it and we always politely let them know why we feel it's dangerous and let them know we won't be able to advise on it as we don't follow it. And it should be common knowledge that dosing advice is not given by PM...it's against the forum rules.
StephG
Very Active Member
Reported it and heard back from an admin. They let the member know that they like to keep all suggestions and advice public for all to see in the spirit of a peer forum. The member responded and apologized.
+9 was 531!!
I had planned on feeding early due to schedule conflict tomorrow and was worried about it but now that he's gone up so quick I'm feeling better about it.
I have no idea why he went up so fast. Probably got contraband from the garbage after my mom's dog knocked it over and got into it while I was out. Bad dog! Hid it in the corner and boxed it in so he can't do it again since I have him until Wednesday!
Data, data, data. *sigh*
+9 was 531!!
I had planned on feeding early due to schedule conflict tomorrow and was worried about it but now that he's gone up so quick I'm feeling better about it.
I have no idea why he went up so fast. Probably got contraband from the garbage after my mom's dog knocked it over and got into it while I was out. Bad dog! Hid it in the corner and boxed it in so he can't do it again since I have him until Wednesday!
Data, data, data. *sigh*
Kris & Teasel
Very Active Member
I'm glad the PM issue has been resolved. I abhor friction and conflict and everyone here has to feel comfortable sharing what they do with their FD kitty.Reported it and heard back from an admin. They let the member know that they like to keep all suggestions and advice public for all to see in the spirit of a peer forum. The member responded and apologized.
+9 was 531!!
I had planned on feeding early due to schedule conflict tomorrow and was worried about it but now that he's gone up so quick I'm feeling better about it.
I have no idea why he went up so fast. Probably got contraband from the garbage after my mom's dog knocked it over and got into it while I was out. Bad dog! Hid it in the corner and boxed it in so he can't do it again since I have him until Wednesday!
Data, data, data. *sigh*
StephG
Very Active Member
oy!
AMPS "HI" 600+
I feel awful. His ears are really bothering him today. He's been digging them until they bleed. I keep ear ointment on hand for situations like these. So I gave him a break on testing since I knew he wasn't going too low. Now he's HI. I don't think he got into anything but it was a bit of a stressful night here. Had family over for an early christmas and he doesn't like my sister's dog for some reason. haha he laid on the table and took a swat at him every time he ran by. Then my sister wrecked her car hitting a deer at 70 mph. Merry Christmas to her! She was stressed and so was I- maybe he was extra stressed from it all? So maybe stress took him up?
Gave him 6 units. Will monitor.
AMPS "HI" 600+
I feel awful. His ears are really bothering him today. He's been digging them until they bleed. I keep ear ointment on hand for situations like these. So I gave him a break on testing since I knew he wasn't going too low. Now he's HI. I don't think he got into anything but it was a bit of a stressful night here. Had family over for an early christmas and he doesn't like my sister's dog for some reason. haha he laid on the table and took a swat at him every time he ran by. Then my sister wrecked her car hitting a deer at 70 mph. Merry Christmas to her! She was stressed and so was I- maybe he was extra stressed from it all? So maybe stress took him up?
Gave him 6 units. Will monitor.
Kris & Teasel
Very Active Member
You've been through the wringer, haven't you?! I'm quite sure that they pick up on our stress and have their own reactions to it. I don't see why higher BG wouldn't be part of that. I hope your sister is OK.
StephG
Very Active Member
Yes, her and her hubby were just fine. Mad but fine!
+2 470
+4 313
+11 464
PMPS: 494
6 units
+2 495
+5 287
Out of the house til +11
+11 286!
Looks like it might be a lowered dose for amps. Will be home to check +2 +4 +6. Then won't be home again until pmps but we should know where he's going by +6.
+2 470
+4 313
+11 464
PMPS: 494
6 units
+2 495
+5 287
Out of the house til +11
+11 286!
Looks like it might be a lowered dose for amps. Will be home to check +2 +4 +6. Then won't be home again until pmps but we should know where he's going by +6.
StephG
Very Active Member
Holy cow!
+7.75 486!!!!
He must have found SOMETHING right?! Is a bounce that quick and that much?!
I just gave him a micro dose of 0.1 units. (Eyeballed .25 on the u100 syringe)
***Note***do NOT copy my dosing!!***
I'm sure the tiny bit won't drop him but I'm hoping it will slow down his crazy fast spike.
Ugh.
+7.75 486!!!!
He must have found SOMETHING right?! Is a bounce that quick and that much?!
I just gave him a micro dose of 0.1 units. (Eyeballed .25 on the u100 syringe)
***Note***do NOT copy my dosing!!***
I'm sure the tiny bit won't drop him but I'm hoping it will slow down his crazy fast spike.
Ugh.
Kris & Teasel
Very Active Member
Did you retest immediately in case it was a wonky strip?
StephG
Very Active Member
+10 512... Slowed down a bit but I think he will be over 600 by +12.
Bummer. He was reacting pretty consistent to the 5.8... 427 am and pm preshot. I wish I could watch him all day 24/7! Strangest part about today is I left the house at +3.75. DH did the +4 test then left for work. I have him h*ll for leaving without giving him a snack because he was that low so early. Guess it's good he didn't... I got home at +4.75 so he was only home alone for 45 minutes... I was testing every half hour after that and he was sleeping the whole time! I guess he must have gotten dog food crumbs while we were gone?!
Bummer. He was reacting pretty consistent to the 5.8... 427 am and pm preshot. I wish I could watch him all day 24/7! Strangest part about today is I left the house at +3.75. DH did the +4 test then left for work. I have him h*ll for leaving without giving him a snack because he was that low so early. Guess it's good he didn't... I got home at +4.75 so he was only home alone for 45 minutes... I was testing every half hour after that and he was sleeping the whole time! I guess he must have gotten dog food crumbs while we were gone?!
Kris & Teasel
Very Active Member
I'm watching a dosing maestro at work, Steph!
StephG
Very Active Member
+10 232
+11.75 286
+12 313
Asked for advice on dose but had to go with 5.6 units based on not being able to monitor after +4. If he's going down too fast I might be able to get a +5 or +6.
So desperately want to get him in constant lower levels. It's the an average of how long it takes for the liver's reserves to run out? Or to learn to stop panicking?
+11.75 286
+12 313
Asked for advice on dose but had to go with 5.6 units based on not being able to monitor after +4. If he's going down too fast I might be able to get a +5 or +6.
So desperately want to get him in constant lower levels. It's the an average of how long it takes for the liver's reserves to run out? Or to learn to stop panicking?
Rachel
Very Active Member
Nope, there's no average that I know of. For either one 
I think the panicking is something that we just learn to live with...heck I haven't had a sugar cat in years but one of my civvies meows and I go running to check on them and make sure they're okay!
I know it seems like the longer it goes, the less likely you are to gain remission (or even regulation) but we've had plenty of cats go into remission after awhile. We had one here on the this forum that bounced for 2 years before remission.
Don't let things get you down. I think the dose you gave was fine. We have to balance dosing with what we can do to keep our kitties safe...and it's not reasonable to think anyone can just give up their life and follow their cat around all day every day to make sure they are okay. We all have lives, and we SHOULD....we do what we can.
I think the panicking is something that we just learn to live with...heck I haven't had a sugar cat in years but one of my civvies meows and I go running to check on them and make sure they're okay!
I know it seems like the longer it goes, the less likely you are to gain remission (or even regulation) but we've had plenty of cats go into remission after awhile. We had one here on the this forum that bounced for 2 years before remission.
Don't let things get you down. I think the dose you gave was fine. We have to balance dosing with what we can do to keep our kitties safe...and it's not reasonable to think anyone can just give up their life and follow their cat around all day every day to make sure they are okay. We all have lives, and we SHOULD....we do what we can.
Kris & Teasel
Very Active Member
Great advice, Rachel!Nope, there's no average that I know of. For either one
I think the panicking is something that we just learn to live with...heck I haven't had a sugar cat in years but one of my civvies meows and I go running to check on them and make sure they're okay!
I know it seems like the longer it goes, the less likely you are to gain remission (or even regulation) but we've had plenty of cats go into remission after awhile. We had one here on the this forum that bounced for 2 years before remission.
Don't let things get you down. I think the dose you gave was fine. We have to balance dosing with what we can do to keep our kitties safe...and it's not reasonable to think anyone can just give up their life and follow their cat around all day every day to make sure they are okay. We all have lives, and we SHOULD....we do what we can.
Kris & Teasel
Very Active Member
The way I explain it to myself:
The liver's reserves are constantly in use - withdrawals made when BG dives (or other triggering event) and deposits made when BG is higher or not fluctuating a lot. Scary part is that they can use those reserves to keep BG propped up too high after a true low, a lower than usual or even a rapid drop. All those things trigger withdrawals from the "liver bank". Next time one of those three events occurs, they go for a withdrawal and there's nothing left in the bank so they nosedive.
That's why it's so confusing when there's a run of high numbers - is the dose too low or are there lots of liver bank withdrawals going on? Unfortunately some of us have really bouncy cats so we're always dealing with this. I'd vote for Chuck as the trickiest cat on the ProZinc forum because of this AND his extreme carb sensitivity. You're doing a stellar job, Steph.
StephG
Very Active Member
Thanks. I'm really trying.The way I explain it to myself:
The liver's reserves are constantly in use - withdrawals made when BG dives (or other triggering event) and deposits made when BG is higher or not fluctuating a lot. Scary part is that they can use those reserves to keep BG propped up too high after a true low, a lower than usual or even a rapid drop. All those things trigger withdrawals from the "liver bank". Next time one of those three events occurs, they go for a withdrawal and there's nothing left in the bank so they nosedive.
That's why it's so confusing when there's a run of high numbers - is the dose too low or are there lots of liver bank withdrawals going on? Unfortunately some of us have really bouncy cats so we're always dealing with this. I'd vote for Chuck as the trickiest cat on the ProZinc forum because of this AND his extreme carb sensitivity. You're doing a stellar job, Steph.
PMPS was 438
6 units given
+2.5 448
+4 354
+7 258
I was expecting a drop like the night before last... haha. Joke is on me tonight.
I wanted to see where it was going to take him without contraband but that will have to wait til next time I guess.
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StephG
Very Active Member
I'm starting to wonder if I fed Chuck half of his food at meal time and gave him his whole dose then fed him the other half of his food around +4 if that would help his insulin last longer?
So it would be: preshot- feed 2.5oz food. Give 5.6-6 units. Then put the other 2 oz food in his autofeeder for +4. I would add water to make him feel more full for each feeding since he's use to the 4.5oz meals.
I worry that might let him drop too much at first but he reacts to food so much I wonder if he will spike from the food 4 hours later. Is this possible to feed him this way and only give 2 shots a day? I don't want to give more than 2 because I'm not always home.
I was thinking about trying this method for both meals tomorrow. If it works I can do it Friday too but I will be leaving from +4 til after his pm shot at +3. Of course I haven't said out loud that I'm leaving the house because that's when his levels decide to be on the lower side enough to make me freak out.
So it would be: preshot- feed 2.5oz food. Give 5.6-6 units. Then put the other 2 oz food in his autofeeder for +4. I would add water to make him feel more full for each feeding since he's use to the 4.5oz meals.
I worry that might let him drop too much at first but he reacts to food so much I wonder if he will spike from the food 4 hours later. Is this possible to feed him this way and only give 2 shots a day? I don't want to give more than 2 because I'm not always home.
I was thinking about trying this method for both meals tomorrow. If it works I can do it Friday too but I will be leaving from +4 til after his pm shot at +3. Of course I haven't said out loud that I'm leaving the house because that's when his levels decide to be on the lower side enough to make me freak out.
Kris & Teasel
Very Active Member
It's something to try when you can be around, Steph. Keeping it to 2 shots a day if at all possible is better for your routine and your sanity I think.
StephG
Very Active Member
Ok so
AMPS: 327 Fed 4.5oz
Gave 5.8 units due to am cycle yesterday not dropping much. (haha what do i know!?)
+2 254
+4 130
+5.75 123
+6 128
Gave him a pea sized amount of baby food plus .75oz water-- this amount does not increase his numbers. Then surprise at
+8 457
(so many curse words it'd make a drunken sailor blush)
+12 HI. I couldn't get a test in before +12 because the plumbers were here cleaning my furnace and fixing my hot water tank! YAY for HOT water for more than 5 minutes! Side note: I can not wait to get a nice long hot shower!
PMPS: "HI" Fed 2.5oz with 1oz water.
Gave 6 units. WILL MONITOR.
2oz food plus 1oz water scheduled for +3 but he will get it earlier if he's going down too quick.
I really wanted to try this on a 5.8 or 5.6 unit but I figured I should see results about the same with the first 4 hours of the cycle on any shot.
It's almost time for +1 so I'll update soon.
AMPS: 327 Fed 4.5oz
Gave 5.8 units due to am cycle yesterday not dropping much. (haha what do i know!?)
+2 254
+4 130
+5.75 123
+6 128
Gave him a pea sized amount of baby food plus .75oz water-- this amount does not increase his numbers. Then surprise at
+8 457
(so many curse words it'd make a drunken sailor blush)+12 HI. I couldn't get a test in before +12 because the plumbers were here cleaning my furnace and fixing my hot water tank! YAY for HOT water for more than 5 minutes! Side note: I can not wait to get a nice long hot shower!
PMPS: "HI" Fed 2.5oz with 1oz water.
Gave 6 units. WILL MONITOR.
2oz food plus 1oz water scheduled for +3 but he will get it earlier if he's going down too quick.
I really wanted to try this on a 5.8 or 5.6 unit but I figured I should see results about the same with the first 4 hours of the cycle on any shot.
It's almost time for +1 so I'll update soon.
Kris & Teasel
Very Active Member
Hey, it's lower than HI ...
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