Chuck's bouncy journey, part 5.

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StephG

StephG

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PMPS: +13 12:30am- 584. Fed 4.5oz food plus .5oz chicken & broth baby food.
He was given 0.2 units at 9:30pm.
 
I was thinking, Steph. BJ used to have a suggestion - one that might or might not help. Instead of adding some insulin at the end of the cycle, her idea giving the usual dose at amps minus 0.2 (for example) and then adding your smaller amount at +2. Her idea was to bring down a kitty who jumps up early. If you try that and it doesn't do enough, maybe increase by 0.2 and give the 0.2 early.

Just grasping at straws. I think he needs more, and my preference is to give more in the initial dose, but was wondering if your later addition of insulin does more harm than good......
 
So - controlling the BG trajectory with a tiny shot of insulin from the main dose, rather like feeding the curve with a bit of food from the daily allotment. Interesting ...
 
By feeding early I have his am/pm ss messed up. Just gave him his shot at 1:30pm and it's on his AMPS section. I think I'm going to move it to the PM section and just note that there was not a cycle skipped.
 
I think his body laughs at the 0.2 units when I give it early. It seemed to keep him under 600 last night and he seemed to "surf in the mid to high 500s. I believe the .2 doesn't last longer than a few hours with him when given separately so that's why I'm quite comfortable giving it to him. I could try the .2 of the usual dose at +2. I already dosed him this afternoon so I'll try it in the morning. Now with the numbers matching the am/pm schedule DH will be able to get more reading in the night time/ early morning hours.
His PMPS was 405 today. I hesitated on the 5.4 but gave it anyway. I looked at his SS and saw those 600+ mornings and decided we'd steer with his favorite thing in the world (food!) if he starts to drop too quick.

Ok question: Bounce. Do they think 200s are "too low" and have a liver panic after being so high like he has for a while?
My mother was diabetic and uncontrolled. Her regular was 350-400. No joke. When her blood sugar got below 200 she would feel sick, tired, sweaty... typical signs of hypoglycemia even though she was FAR from it. Her body was so use to the high numbers. Even after 4 months of being controlled in the hospital before her death she would never be as sassy unless her BG was over 150. (Dr's always thought we were crazy until they saw it themselves)
Is this how the bounce works in cats? Like do we have to get him to surf in the pinks for a while, then yellows, then blues?
 
It seems that if they're high a lot - eg., 400s and up - even mid-200s "feels" low to their liver (using the simple description). That can trigger a bounce. Not only that: a more rapid than usual drop even if it's from, say, 500 to 300 can trigger a bounce. So it's not just going lower than they're accustomed but how quickly they drop that can be the culprit. Teasel reacts this way.

I've also noticed what I call Teasel's "feel good" numbers. He seems happiest, perkiest, etc. when he's 8 - 10 (approximately 150 - 180) and quieter when he's too high or too low. It's not easy to get a tricky cat to the level that seems good and have him surf there. If it was, I'd try to have Teasel sitting between about 6 and 10 every day. Wishful thinking ...
 
StephG said:
So give 5.2 at feeding time and then add .2u at +2?
Click to expand...

That is the idea - giving a little boost when the insulin starts to kick in. It might not work. It might take some experimenting - giving less at preshot and more at +2. I don't know how he might respond. He is a little tricky. :banghead:
 
He's tricky alright! I thought for sure we'd see yellows today! Still mid 300s. Little turd.
I thought about experimenting with his food. Feeding 3oz food and 2oz of baby food. But 2.5oz chicken and broth baby food is only 70 calories so it would work out to be about the same amount of calories as the 4.5oz food. BUT I thought if maybe his BG would drop from the reduction in carbs then he could have more chicken for his snack. I also don't want to deny him the nutrients he might need from the cat food.
I don't know. I'm trying not to obsess over it so much. It is VERY hard to turn off. I won't be home after +4/+6 depending on when we feed him tonight. I'm trying to get back to 4am/4pm if possible.
 
Gave him a snack of .2oz baby food and .8oz water for a 1oz snack at +8.75. He was so hungry I caught him trying to eat the broom bristles! Crazy boy! Hopefully it won't jack him up. AMPS will be at +13. I won't be home after 6:45am so I'm fully expecting him to drop quick so I worry all day! hah. It usually works out so I'm worried all day!
OMG I just caught my two boys PLAYING with EACH OTHER! They haven't played in MONTHS. Poor April has no idea why I'm an emotional mess right now! haha. My heart is full tonight.
 
We were headed for great numbers then DH left Kitty's friskies pate out this morning. :banghead: April has her auto feeder. It's as big as her head lol. She's using it though so there should be NO MORE dog food contraband. Unfortunately an auto feeder won't work for kitty because he will lay right by his dish and let Chuck eat all of his dinner. So I've put a stool by his feeding table and sit right beside it now. Kitty is down to 17.8 pounds and Chuck is 10.1 again. I worry about kitty losing weight too quick but he won't eat as much wet food as he did dry.
 
Well here we are! :coffee::coffee:
AMPS: 404 (+12)
5.4 u given 4.5oz food
+2.15 245
+4 174
+5 123!!
I gave him .38 baby food and .25 of his pate at +5
+5.5 107 just gave him .5oz pumpkin puree...
I might need to brew another pot of coffee! He's been surfing from about +6/+7 til +10 at least for the last couple cycles.
 
Hopefully that .5 pumpkin wasn't too much. Just looked at his SS and he only "dropped" about 30 point last night from +5 to +7
 
Looking good, Steph! Hair-raising though ... Strict attention to feeding schedule, etc. is starting to pay off. I hope this continues although you might be drinking more coffee than usual. :)
 
+6 137! I guess I should treat that pumpkin like Karo syrup when giving it.
He hasn't had it the last two nights so he did need it but I'll start splitting it with his meals.
I'm going to try to get an hour nap in. Fingers crossed he's not going to keep going up too fast. I'd like to see him surf in the blues but I won't get too greedy! I'm happy to see lower numbers but know we are probably going to see a bounce.
I think maybe with his .5oz chicken snack he would probably surf in the yellows at least... if we can do that for a few cycles to get his body use to it then we can move on to the blues! *my perfect plan that is probably more like a pipe dream!*
 
+11 was 528 So I fed him an hour early. Fed 4.5oz food. Since I gave that pumpkin and didn't get readings after +7 I can't know for sure if it was from the pumpkin or if it's just a bounce. My gut says bounce because that's a big spike from just pumpkin when he's been surfing for the last half of his cycle. I will be home til +7 tomorrow so if he clears this bounce quickly I can see if he's going to go that low again like this morning and put his chicken snack out for him around +3 or +4 depending on his numbers and hopefully not need anything other than that snack to get him to surf in yellows or blue.
+2 519
 
+10 320. Looking good for a high pink/low red AMPS.
My question is after this morning should we give the 5.4 or try 5.2 to see what happens?
DH can test +2 and +4. I can test +6 and +8. But then he's on his own until PMPS.
My gut says give 5.2 but then I wonder if that will be too little? Maybe a "skinny" 5.4? I might be over thinking this. I'll be home and can get my lazy butt up early if he's going down too quick.
Let me know what you think if you see this before 2-2:30am EST.
 
I think all the experts are asleep, and I'm not really comfortable with dosing recommendations. But I always err on the side of caution myself, because that's the kind of person I am. If I were in your place if he's up high pink/low red I'd try a skinny 5.4 since you & DH will be able to test around nadir. It looks to me like the black PMPS was maybe a bounce from the lovely blues?
 
Nice preshot! And some lovely blues!

I know you know this, Steph, but his real issue seems to be the carbs. (Well, and the bouncing) Either keeping the carbs low or using the insulin to lower the effect of them seems to be a logical approach.

Maybe a smidge of an increase this weekend?
 
Sue and Oliver (GA) said:
Maybe a smidge of an increase this weekend?
Click to expand...
I was thinking that myself but today's numbers seem on track for a pink preshot. I was thinking 5.5-5.6 is going to be his sweet spot because DH eyeballed his 5.4u yesterday morning and he hit blues. I figured it was more of a 5.5-5.6u shot. I did just give him a snack because like every other night he's STARVING at +8. Like following me around the house yelling at me. Even poked his head in the shower to yell at me. I gave him a double the amount of baby food (.5 vs .25oz mixed with 1.5oz water) I've been giving to see what it does to his numbers.
I think we might try the 5.4 or maybe a skinny 5.4 this afternoon too. I will be home at +4 at the latest to test.
He's surfing in the yellows today! I feel optimistic for the first time in what feels like forever... probably only a week or two actually.
I did update the vet on his higher dose. The tech sounded shocked until she talked to the tech that saw us for his appt. He must have explained the obsessive testing and spreadsheet. lol We have a bottle of insulin on reserve at the vets for when we need it since we are getting a bit low. We have, i think, at least a week left in it.
 
Well I think the snack was a bad idea... He went from 228 @+8 to 538 @+13
I know the .25 snack doesn't bother his numbers so maybe I'll try one of those earlier in his cycle and the other .25 later. I think tomorrow we will do NO snack and see where he goes. I'll just have to avoid him lol... I'm weak to his cute little cries.
+3 428 Getting +4 then have to drive 40 minutes to go check on my sister's cats. She left for a cruise Wednesday and left port today! Lucky!!!!!
 
+11 311... He was under Kitty's table which was fine with me until Kitty took a bite of his pate and literally dropped it on the floor for Chuck. What in the h*ll?! They're in it together! So he got a bite of Kitty's pate with me sitting right there with both of them! I can't win. Might have to keep him in a different room while Kitty's food is out and check the floor when he's done! Hopefully he doesn't spike to much in one hour from that one or two bites. SMH. I just can't believe that happened. Reminds me of that video of the bird taking dog biscuits out of the box and tossing them on the floor for his dog brother!
 
+11.5 405. Fed half hour early.
Snack later, before +6 if his BG is looking good. Only fed .25oz pumpkin to see if the smaller dose is enough to keep his BM somewhat "normal" like the .5oz a day does. Might help reduce the after meal spike when he gets .5 all at once.
Gave 5.4 units. Might try the 5.5 or 5.6 for PMPS depending on numbers. I think without the friskies pate he would have been in the 300s for AMPS but I managed to screw it up! Tomorrow is another day. Off to bed for me. DH is on duty! :)
 
+2 358... Looking good. .5oz beef&broth baby food plus 1.5oz water scheduled for +5...
 
He is definitely looking better!

My daughter had a similar experience (before the days of YouTube unfortunately). She was cooking chicken on the stove. She went into the kitchen and the cat was flicking the little pieces of chicken out of the skillet and onto the floor for the dog! They do conspire against us.
 
+6 182
Should I give another snack? Or just test again in an hour and see what it looks like?
 
Ok I'll check again at +8. I think the most he will drop is 100 points and that was on a day with no snack so maybe he will surf in the blues today! *paws crossed*
 
+6.45 144
Couldn't wait till +8!!! Too nervous.
I'm going to test again at +8 or maybe +8.5... I think I've convinced myself that 182 down to 144 is surfing! Just barely over the 20% mark... Going to try to nap til it's time to test because if I don't, I'll be poking him too much!
 
Can you monitor? He's 100 points lower than this am. 5.4 took him into lovely territory and he was never in dangerous numbers. But he is lower than this am. I think I'd be tempted to go for it but plan to catch a few midcycle numbers and feed him to bring a low up if necessary. What does your gut say?
 
Thank you Sue and Oliver! I always get freaked out until I see that at least someone on here doesn't think it's s bad idea!
 
+1 516
+2 478
Big spike after meal. 4.5oz fed. Nothing different. I was hoping to see his preshot at +2 but I think he'll do fine. He's getting a .5oz chicken snack at +3 if his numbers are cooperating. I think he will be ok with it.
 
I'm curious if he needs 5.4 in the morning and 5.6 in the evening? Or try 5.2 in the morning to see if it prevents the bounce we are seeing in the evening?
IDK maybe I'm thinking about it too much.
 
AMPS 396. (+11) 5.4 units given. Can't monitor as close this morning so I might try the 5.6 this evening.
 
Sometimes I think we have to shut down our conscious brain and let our unconscious decision making send the answer to us through our gut. Sounds woo-woo but I think our "instincts" get better over time in this sugar dance. :)
 
I think as long as you stay in this range (5.4-5.6) with little adjustments downward if needed for low numbers and not being able to monitor, you are doing fine, Steph.
 
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