Chloe

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srk4cats

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I finally got a reading and it's 432 or 439 or thereabouts. What now? I haven't given her insulin since this morning and if I give her shot now, I won't be home tomorrow at 9:40 am. I leave for work at 7:30 am.
 
The shot times need to be consistent. Was there a reason why she didnt get her shot earlier? Generally the rule is that if you miss the shot time, you wait until the next one.
 
I wasn't able to get a reading at 7 pm, but fed her anyway. Have you looked at her SS? She was at 60 this morning. Is that really bad to go up so drastically in such a short time?
 
That steep rise is called a bounce and its totally normal. Make sure you give yourself extra time in the morning to get a test in. You can post in the morning after the test to get dose advice. However, in case no one is around, absolutely do not give her more than 1u, no matter how high her number is in the morning. If it's below 200, skip the shot.

If one of the wise ones is around in the mornng, they can give you more specific dosing advice.
 
Did you get a reading before you gave the 1u this morning? It looks like even 1u might be too much for her. I would recommend you wait to give any dose until you have a test and some advice from someone on here tomorrow. Especially since youll be at work all day.
 
Did you get a reading before you gave the 1u this morning? It looks like even 1u might be too much for her. I would recommend you wait to give any dose until you have a test and some advice from someone on here tomorrow. Especially since youll be at work all day.
Thank you. Is that Sam in the sink? Does he hang out there often?
I will do a bg test early tomorrow before I leave for work. I just hate having to poke her ear. She cries out. I'm still working on figuring out the lancet pen. I feel I have more control without it, but she cries out.
 
Just remember that you are poking her to keep her safe. Try to get that test as early as possible in the AM so we have a little time to advise you. Also how are you feeding Chloe? Are you leaving food out for her to eat during the day?
 
I agree that 1 u seems to be too much. In a situation like this the diet might have a pronounced influence on BG and insulin needs. Is she on any dry food at all? If so, merely removing it and switching to a canned low carb wet food could give significant control.

The only way to figure this out and keep your kitty safe from hypo (and the risk is high when she appears to need a small dose) is to be very strict in your testing routine and dose timing. You need to gather data at all the important times: AM and PM before feeding and giving insulin as well as in the middle part of a cycle when you expect BG to be lowest. I know it can be hard when you're still uncomfortable with ear pricking, you have to leave for work, etc. However, Chloe's safety depends on it.
 
I wasn't able to get a reading at 7 pm, but fed her anyway. Have you looked at her SS? She was at 60 this morning. Is that really bad to go up so drastically in such a short time?
Could you please clarify? You said she "was at 60 this morning". When I look at your spreadsheet, I see the 60 entered at +8. Assuming you gave insulin in the AM, then +8 would be mid to late afternoon. Knowing the timing of your doses and BG testing is very important when we're trying to give advice.
 
I agree that 1 u seems to be too much. In a situation like this the diet might have a pronounced influence on BG and insulin needs. Is she on any dry food at all? If so, merely removing it and switching to a canned low carb wet food could give significant control.

The only way to figure this out and keep your kitty safe from hypo (and the risk is high when she appears to need a small dose) is to be very strict in your testing routine and dose timing. You need to gather data at all the important times: AM and PM before feeding and giving insulin as well as in the middle part of a cycle when you expect BG to be lowest. I know it can be hard when you're still uncomfortable with ear pricking, you have to leave for work, etc. However, Chloe's safety depends on it.
I got it on the 2nd try! The rice sock helps a lot. At 6:20 this morning, she read 396. She is eating now and in a few minutes I will give her her shot. How many units should I give her on a u100 syringe?
 
I got it on the 2nd try! The rice sock helps a lot. At 6:20 this morning, she read 396. She is eating now and in a few minutes I will give her her shot. How many units should I give her on a u100 syringe?
Please slow down for a minute. I'm getting nervous about the U40/U100 syringe issue. :nailbiting:

First off, the BG you've just measured goes into the cell on your SS that says "AMPS" above it. You can record actual times for your own record on paper elsewhere if you wish. You've put BG numbers under +1 and that will confuse viewers of your SS. They'll think those are BG measurements taken 1 hour after the shot was given.

Yesterday 1 unit brought her down to a dangerously low 40. She hasn't had insulin for 24 hours and is now high for (probably) two reasons:
  1. missed dose last night
  2. a physiologic overreaction to the 40 yesterday that has boosted her BG sky high - we call it "bouncing".
Do you have the conversion chart for dosing ProZinc with U100 syringes right beside you? If you're sticking with those, have you put the U40 syringes away where you won't accidentally grab them? You need to be crystal clear in your mind about how the dosing of a U40 insulin with U100 syringes works. :bookworm:

The 1 unit dose is too high, based on that 40 you saw yesterday. We would normally recommend a 0.25 u dose decrease in this situation. So - if you're using a U40 syringe with half unit marks, you'd eyeball half way between 0.50 units and 1 unit on the syringe barrel. You can't get this fraction on a U100 syringe. If you look at the chart it shows you that these fractions are possible: 0.2, 0.4, 0.6 and 0.8. I suggest you try 0.6 u which will mean going to the 1.5 line on the U100 syringe. In my opinion, 0.8 u is still a bit too high for comfort until you get more data on your SS.

FYI: when you use U100 syringes to dose a U40 insulin like ProZinc, the number you draw the insulin level to in the U100 syringe ISN'T a measure of insulin units. It's just how much space in a U100 syringe a certain number of units of ProZinc takes up. If you refer to the liquid level of ProZinc in a U100 syringe as how many units you're giving you'll scare the living daylights out of us!

I hope this helps! :)
 
Please slow down for a minute. I'm getting nervous about the U40/U100 syringe issue. :nailbiting:

First off, the BG you've just measured goes into the cell on your SS that says "AMPS" above it. You can record actual times for your own record on paper elsewhere if you wish. You've put BG numbers under +1 and that will confuse viewers of your SS. They'll think those are BG measurements taken 1 hour after the shot was given.

Yesterday 1 unit brought her down to a dangerously low 40. She hasn't had insulin for 24 hours and is now high for (probably) two reasons:
  1. missed dose last night
  2. a physiologic overreaction to the 40 yesterday that has boosted her BG sky high - we call it "bouncing".
Do you have the conversion chart for dosing ProZinc with U100 syringes right beside you? If you're sticking with those, have you put the U40 syringes away where you won't accidentally grab them? You need to be crystal clear in your mind about how the dosing of a U40 insulin with U100 syringes works. :bookworm:

The 1 unit dose is too high, based on that 40 you saw yesterday. We would normally recommend a 0.25 u dose decrease in this situation. So - if you're using a U40 syringe with half unit marks, you'd eyeball half way between 0.50 units and 1 unit on the syringe barrel. You can't get this fraction on a U100 syringe. If you look at the chart it shows you that these fractions are possible: 0.2, 0.4, 0.6 and 0.8. I suggest you try 0.6 u which will mean going to the 1.5 line on the U100 syringe. In my opinion, 0.8 u is still a bit too high for comfort until you get more data on your SS.

FYI: when you use U100 syringes to dose a U40 insulin like ProZinc, the number you draw the insulin level to in the U100 syringe ISN'T a measure of insulin units. It's just how much space in a U100 syringe a certain number of units of ProZinc takes up. If you refer to the liquid level of ProZinc in a U100 syringe as how many units you're giving you'll scare the living daylights out of us!

I hope this helps! :)
 
I thought I was supposed to write the dosages according to the u-40 syringe. So I changed it back to that. This morning I will give her 2 units u40/1 unit u100. I don't have any u40 syringes yet, but will continue to convert.
 
I thought I was supposed to write the dosages according to the u-40 syringe. So I changed it back to that. This morning I will give her 2 units u40/1 unit u100. I don't have any u40 syringes yet, but will continue to convert.
Please DO NOT give her a 2 unit dose!!! It's far too high!
 
I thought I was supposed to write the dosages according to the u-40 syringe. So I changed it back to that. This morning I will give her 2 units u40/1 unit u100. I don't have any u40 syringes yet, but will continue to convert.
Yes, you write the actual dose on your SS, not the level you draw it to in a U100 syringe. You just said above that you'll "give 2 units U40/1 unit U100". I'm sorry but I can't understand this. Here's how it works:
  • ProZinc is a U40 insulin so when you say you're giving 2 units U40, that's what you would draw up in a proper U40 syringe.
  • If you draw up 1 unit of ProZinc in a U100 syringe, that's the amount of ProZinc that contains 0.4 units of insulin. If you look at the conversion chart, find 1.0 in the U100 column and then look over to the U40 column, you'll see o.40 in that column.
  • If your intention is to administer 0.4 u of ProZinc, you fill the U100 syringe to the 1.0 line. If your intention is to give 2 u of ProZinc (and I sure hope it isn't!), you fill the U100 syringe to the 5 line.
There's no need to buy U40 syringes. The U100s work fine BUT it's critical that you have the conversion chart at hand and understand how it works and how to enter your data on the SS. I apologize if I "sound" bossy but I'm very worried about a mistake occurring.
 
I agree with Kris that Chloe has proven that even 1 unit is too much for her. The dose you are giving her goes in the unit box, not the conversion number on the U100 syringes.

Please give her less than 1 unit of insulin to keep her safe. I would only give her 0.6 which is the 1.5 line on the U100 syringes.
 
I agree with Kris that Chloe has proven that even 1 unit is too much for her. The dose you are giving her goes in the unit box, not the conversion number on the U100 syringes.

Please give her less than 1 unit of insulin to keep her safe. I would only give her 0.6 which is the 1.5 line on the U100 syringes.
Whew! Thanks, Bobbie! I was beginning to think I'd just confused the whole issue for Chloe's mom. :confused:
 
If you have a chance, could you take a look at someone else's SS? Look at mine if you want (though it's several years old) or anyone else on this forum. That might help clarify where things should go on your SS.

It is SUPER IMPORTANT that you post the data in the SS correctly so that we can help you keep Chloe safe.
  • AMPS column - should contain the BG number you got when you tested her before her shot in the morning.
  • U column - should contain the amount of insulin you gave in U40 terms, NO MATTER what syringe you used. So if you drew up to 1.5 on the u100 needle, you would write "0.6" in that column.
  • +1, +2, +3, etc columns-should contain the BG numbers you get that many hours after the shot. Not all of these will be filled every day, but whenever you test, determine how many hours past the shot it is, and fill in that column.
  • PMPS column - should contain the BG number you get when you tested her before her shot in the evening.
Does that clear it all up? I know it's confusing and with everything else, it feels like one more thing that maybe doesn't matter much, but it's super helpful since we can spot patterns on it and help you to help Chloe. Let us know if you have any questions about it, and we can help you get it.

I hope you gave Chloe the 0.6 dose. 1 unit/2 units is WAY too much for her. I know we may sound bossy or nitpicky, but we're really just concerned about Chloe. Our goal here is to help kitties and their owners to stay safe and feel better during the diabetes dance. We do it for love of kitties and to pay it forward for others who have helped us...please ask questions as much as possible so we can understand what you need to know and can help you find it and continue being a wonderful mom to Chloe.
 
If you have a chance, could you take a look at someone else's SS? Look at mine if you want (though it's several years old) or anyone else on this forum. That might help clarify where things should go on your SS.

It is SUPER IMPORTANT that you post the data in the SS correctly so that we can help you keep Chloe safe.
  • AMPS column - should contain the BG number you got when you tested her before her shot in the morning.
  • U column - should contain the amount of insulin you gave in U40 terms, NO MATTER what syringe you used. So if you drew up to 1.5 on the u100 needle, you would write "0.6" in that column.
  • +1, +2, +3, etc columns-should contain the BG numbers you get that many hours after the shot. Not all of these will be filled every day, but whenever you test, determine how many hours past the shot it is, and fill in that column.
  • PMPS column - should contain the BG number you get when you tested her before her shot in the evening.
Does that clear it all up? I know it's confusing and with everything else, it feels like one more thing that maybe doesn't matter much, but it's super helpful since we can spot patterns on it and help you to help Chloe. Let us know if you have any questions about it, and we can help you get it.

I hope you gave Chloe the 0.6 dose. 1 unit/2 units is WAY too much for her. I know we may sound bossy or nitpicky, but we're really just concerned about Chloe. Our goal here is to help kitties and their owners to stay safe and feel better during the diabetes dance. We do it for love of kitties and to pay it forward for others who have helped us...please ask questions as much as possible so we can understand what you need to know and can help you find it and continue being a wonderful mom to Chloe.

:banghead::confused::confused::confused: Aren't the syringes marked with whole numbers? The vet put her on a 2.5 unit for u40, so I've been giving her 5.0 on the u100, which is actually a bit lower I think.

As for the spreadsheet, I've been opening it from my laptop at home and adding stuff in. I'm at work now and can't open it.
 
:banghead::confused::confused::confused: Aren't the syringes marked with whole numbers? The vet put her on a 2.5 unit for u40, so I've been giving her 5.0 on the u100, which is actually a bit lower I think.
You can buy both U40 and U100 syringes with half unit marks. It makes it much easier to measure or eyeball fractions of a dose.

5.0 on a U100 syringe is equal to a dose of 2.0 units of ProZinc. Have a look at the conversion chart. It would be wise to print it out and put it with your dosing supplies. Did you give Chloe that dose this AM? It isn't showing on your SS. If you read our posts above you can see that we're very concerned about giving that much insulin. Look at what the 1 unit dose did yesterday - that 40 is dangerously low!
 
You can buy both U40 and U100 syringes with half unit marks. It makes it much easier to measure or eyeball fractions of a dose.

5.0 on a U100 syringe is equal to a dose of 2.0 units of ProZinc. Have a look at the conversion chart. It would be wise to print it out and put it with your dosing supplies. Did you give Chloe that dose this AM? It isn't showing on your SS. If you read our posts above you can see that we're very concerned about giving that much insulin. Look at what the 1 unit dose did yesterday - that 40 is dangerously low!


The vet prescribed 2.5 units after her glucose curve. That was for a u40. So, actually 5 units on u100 is LESS than what the vet said. Am I reading the conversion chart wrong or was the Vet saying 0.25?
 
Correct, 5.o on the u100s is less than what your vet prescribed. HOWEVER...it's still too much insulin. I wouldn't give more than 1.5 on the u100s which is 0.6 on the u40s because she has ALREADY HAD HYPO NUMBERS on the dose you have been giving.

What dose did you give her today?
 
The vet prescribed 2.5 units after her glucose curve. That was for a u40. So, actually 5 units on u100 is LESS than what the vet said.
That's correct. However, you have to alter a dose downward if your kitty shows you it's going to be too much. Chloe showed you yesterday that a small dose of 1 unit was enough to drop her BG dangerously low. In a situation like this, the kitty's BG numbers trump ANY dose the vet recommended, even if you dropped it yourself. Two units is still 2X the dose that dropped Chloe to that very low 40 yesterday.

Could you please clarify: did you actually give only 1 unit in the morning yesterday? I'm going by what's on your SS. If you gave something different please let me know. I'm very worried for Chloe if she was given 2 u this morning.
 
Well, there's nothing I can do about it now. I'm at work and have to make a new schedule for testing, which involves a whole lot of numbers, too. I gave her 2.0 units on the u100, which converts to .8. Hopefully, she'll still be alive when I get home tonight.
 
Well, there's nothing I can do about it now. I'm at work and have to make a new schedule for testing, which involves a whole lot of numbers, too. I gave her 2.0 units on the u100, which converts to .8. Hopefully, she'll still be alive when I get home tonight.
I apologize if we've stressed you at work. :( I'm a retired teacher myself and know how much focus, energy and attention the job demands. We were hoping to get this sorted last night.
 
I apologize if we've stressed you at work. :( I'm a retired teacher myself and know how much focus, energy and attention the job demands. We were hoping to get this sorted last night.
I'm logging out after this reply. She's already almost 2 months into her insulin therapy and I just started my SS. She's still alive. We will get this sorted out by Wednesday evening because the u-40 syringes should be delivered by then.
 
I am so sorry that we've caused you stress. It was CERTAINLY not our intention. Please understand that we just worry (sometimes too much I'm sure) and want to make sure that you get what you need from us. I was NOT trying to suggest that anything terrible is going to happen to Chloe, only trying to be sure I understood what dose you gave her and could effectively advise you.

I hope that this doesn't stop you from posting and you don't feel bad about this. We really want to help in any way we can...we just need to be sure we know what's going on so we can help when it's needed. :bighug:
 
This morning, Chloe's reading was 163. I struggled with the glucometer a bit. I think I will reduce her insulin just a tad. Off to work.:)
 
This morning, Chloe's reading was 163. I struggled with the glucometer a bit. I think I will reduce her insulin just a tad. Off to work.:)
This is a great number. Our advice would be not to give any insulin on a pre shot this low. Later on after you've amassed a lot more data you can be more brave.
 
What a beautiful number! Yes, I wouldn't give any insulin on that number just yet. :)

Side note, your SS looks great! That's gonna be super helpful to you and us. Thanks!
 
This is a great number. Our advice would be not to give any insulin on a pre shot this low. Later on after you've amassed a lot more data you can be more brave.
I thought it has to be under 150 for no insulin. I only gave her a tiny bit. I just got home from work and she was up and about. I gave her some food and will test her in 3 hours.
 
I thought it has to be under 150 for no insulin. I only gave her a tiny bit. I just got home from work and she was up and about. I gave her some food and will test her in 3 hours.
The general recommendation we give here is no insulin under 200 until you have a lot of data on your SS to use as a reference.
 
449. Not so happy about that one. How much do you think I should give her?
Sorry your spreadsheet wouldn't open on my phone. I see it now. I would try the 0.8 again tonight. It gave you a great preshot on the last cycle. I think 0.6 looks like it could have been too much on the blue number. Hard to tell without a test in there but with the nice blue number I would try 0.8 again.
 
Sorry your spreadsheet wouldn't open on my phone. I see it now. I would try the 0.8 again tonight. It gave you a great preshot on the last cycle. I think 0.6 looks like it could have been too much on the blue number. Hard to tell without a test in there but with the nice blue number I would try 0.8 again.
Sorry, I get a bit panicky when I see red numbers. Is it normal for the numbers to go down overnight and creep up during the day?
 
Some cats don't require as much insulin overnight than they do during the day. I've noticed this in my cat too.
The 0.6 units on the 16౩ could have dropped him too low causing his liver to panic and increase his blood glucose. It's hard to tell if that's really what happened without a test mid cycle but seeing how well he did on the 0.8 I think that's more likely than it just not being enough. That's such a high jump in numbers so unless he got into something high carb I think the bounce is more likely the culprit here.
Chuck starts to go back up in numbers around 8 hours after his shot. When he bounces he can go from 300 to over 600 in an hour or two.
 
I agree...I think a bounce is most likely. Any chance of grabbing some mid cycle numbers any time soon? I know with work it's tough...if you can grab even a test a few hours after injection AM or PM, that would be great, and then maybe something +5/+6 this weekend?
 
I will try to do more tests on Saturday, but so far, she's looking good at 108. At 7:00 pm today, I'll probably find her numbers in the 300's since I won't be giving her insulin this morning.
 
Wow! Most likely. But it does give you valuable info...now you know that 1 unit on that red number last night was too much (because it gave you a non shootable preshot...not a dangerous one by any means, but too low to shoot). So next time you get one like that, you give less insulin to see if that gives you a shootable number. :)

You'll probably see a high number tonight, but I'd definitely reduce the amount you give her no matter what it is. GREAT job with the testing!
 
Wow! Most likely. But it does give you valuable info...now you know that 1 unit on that red number last night was too much (because it gave you a non shootable preshot...not a dangerous one by any means, but too low to shoot). So next time you get one like that, you give less insulin to see if that gives you a shootable number. :)

You'll probably see a high number tonight, but I'd definitely reduce the amount you give her no matter what it is. GREAT job with the testing!
Thanks. It took me 2 tries this morning. Have you found that one ear is better than the other for testing? I'd rather she have a higher number than a lower number, right? I'm not giving her any insulin this morning because I won't be home until 7 pm.
 
One higher number for a moment is better than a too low number for any second, especially when you are not going to be home :).
 
Yes, low numbers can be very dangerous. And as Rachel said, the high numbers you are getting is an indicator that your dose is too high. I know that seems backwards right now, but when Chloe's BG goes too low, her body panics and responds by dumping stored glucose into the blood stream and making the number higher. So when you lower the dose, the body doesn't go through that panic response and you'll start to move toward better numbers. It does take a little while though for her numbers to start to stabilize. Since you're setting consistent shot times, and getting the tests done, you're taking great steps to keeping her safe, and getting her to healthier numbers.

So tonight, even if you see a high number, it will be important to give her less insulin so her BG can start to level out instead of bouncing high and then low and then high and then low.

As far as the ears, yes - Sam's left ear bleeds better than his right ear (although it's harder for me to get the test in his left ear). And the "sweet spot" on his ear gives the most blood.
upload_2017-3-29_7-46-55.jpeg
 
I test on Chuck's right ear 90% of the time. It bleeds better and is less sensitive due to cauliflower ear.
 
Gypsy didn't have cauliflower ear...but one ear seemed easier to use than the other. I can't remember which anymore, but I almost always used that ear as it caused less stress for both of us.
 
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