Chloe 8

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srk4cats

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I had a feeling something was wrong. She wasn't on the bed when I got home at 1pm. She did come when I called her, but she seemed lethargic. I tested her just now, one hour earlier than normal because she was throwing up, but it wasn't food. When I saw 69, I immediately opened a can of FF, but she was not interested in eating, so I got the honey and put it in her mouth.\
 
According to your SS, you are almost at PMPS time so the insulin should be at the end of it's cycle. Don't sugar her up too much and DO NOT GIVE INSULIN.
Still not getting alerts even though it's all checked on my settings page. 30 more minutes to next test.
 
I replied on your other post.
But I'll say it quick here, she probably went pretty low if she's 69@+11 so you will probably see a bounce but I suggest going back down to 2 units tomorrow morning. I agree with NO SHOT tonight.
 
Where's Roberta at this morning? I think you've proven that 2.5 is too high a dose! I would definitely reduce this what morning and would NOT shoot if she is under 200.
What a bounce! She's at 580 this morning and yowling for food, even though her dish is full of YA. I went back to fat 2 and will do a curve on Sunday.
 
Roberta, I'm moving over here to your thread so we don't hijack Michelle's thread.

I did a curve with the Everpaw on June 3 and she was flat the whole time. You have to look at my Everpaw SS.
Yes, and that's great! The thing is though that in any given cycle, a cat might be high and flat because of a low from a previous cycle. So while that curve is great, there need to be more mid-cycle tests on other days to really know how a cat is reacting to the insulin. She was flat during the curve you did two weeks ago, but other numbers in your spreadsheet hint that that curve day might not have been a typical cycle for Chloe. That's why mid-cycle tests on other days are so important. Plus, from day to day and week to week, a cat's response can change, so monitoring needs to happen regularly.
 
Roberta, I'm moving over here to your thread so we don't hijack Michelle's thread.


Yes, and that's great! The thing is though that in any given cycle, a cat might be high and flat because of a low from a previous cycle. So while that curve is great, there need to be more mid-cycle tests on other days to really know how a cat is reacting to the insulin. She was flat during the curve you did two weeks ago, but other numbers in your spreadsheet hint that that curve day might not have been a typical cycle for Chloe. That's why mid-cycle tests on other days are so important. Plus, from day to day and week to week, a cat's response can change, so monitoring needs to happen regularly.
I was also told that a curve shouldn't be done immediately after a bounce.
 
You can do a mini curve too. Which is every 3 hours if you think it might be the end of a bounce.
Like Djamila said it's difficult to determine how long or when she's bouncing without spot checks. If you want to get her numbers consistently under control and near regulation you'll have to test more. It's impossible to know what dose will work best without more data.

Have you considered Lantus? It's protocol calls for the same dose am/pm and it's better at keeping lower numbers longer. But you MUST do spot checks with lantus. They're more strict about following the protocol on the lantus and levemir group. (Not a bad thing though) but if you're not interested in switching I would get more tests in and see if you can get a better picture of how the insulin is working.
 
Okay, I did a mid-afternoon test and just did her PM. It's making a frown instead of a smile. What does that mean?
 
Okay, I did a mid-afternoon test and just did her PM. It's making a frown instead of a smile. What does that mean?
It's almost impossible to say. You need to get these tests in frequently to build up a more detailed picture of Chloe's responses to insulin. Have a look at Yong's or Djamila's SS to get an idea of the testing routine that I'm referring to.
 
Great job getting a mid-cycle test. That was a +8 which means she had most likely been a bit lower earlier, and was rising by then. Every little bit helps, so keep getting those mid-cycles and soon you'll have enough data to start to make sense of what's going on with Chloe.
 
That+8 test was very close to the 20% variance. I would consider that flat aka r same as her preshot. I agree that she may have gone lower than that so if you can get a +6 tonight it would be great. See what she's up to around the typical nadir.
 
I don't believe she's hypo. She's not acting sick and is eating FF. I will recheck in 20 min. Now she's at 51, but she is eating canned food with gusto. I think I will hold off on the honey and check again in a half hour. She doesn't seem interested in the YA food anymore.
 
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Chuck was in the 40s with no symptoms of hypo. He was just really hungry. It can happen. I suggest lowering the dose after skipping her shot tonight.
She will probably bounce but will come back down and it's best to have a smaller dose since we don't know when that will be.
 
Chuck was in the 40s with no symptoms of hypo. He was just really hungry. It can happen. I suggest lowering the dose after skipping her shot tonight.
She will probably bounce but will come back down and it's best to have a smaller dose since we don't know when that will be.
She's not so excited about the YA food anymore. At least, I haven't seen her eating it. But she just ate a lot of canned food.
 
She's not so excited about the YA food anymore. At least, I haven't seen her eating it. But she just ate a lot of canned food.
Have you been monitoring how much is eaten in the day or per cycle? Weighing/measuring it before and after. They do only eat a little bit. 3 tablespoons which I think is 1/4 cup a day. But since she's going at the wet food she might not be eating much so monitoring how much ya she eats is a good idea.
Do you shake the bag before feeding? They have it coated with stuff that can settle.
Like Rachel, I'm curious to know if you got more tests done. I still think you should decrease her dose this morning.
 
Have you been monitoring how much is eaten in the day or per cycle? Weighing/measuring it before and after. They do only eat a little bit. 3 tablespoons which I think is 1/4 cup a day. But since she's going at the wet food she might not be eating much so monitoring how much ya she eats is a good idea.
Do you shake the bag before feeding? They have it coated with stuff that can settle.
Like Rachel, I'm curious to know if you got more tests done. I still think you should decrease her dose this morning.
Thanks for telling me about shaking the bag. I decreased her dose back to 2 units from a fat 2. She was very hungry and yowling this morning, so I don't think she was eating the YA because it was left out for free-feeding.
 
This is odd. I did a mid-cycle test and it came out as 313. There was a huge drop of blood on the strip, so I decided to pour it on a new strip not 5 minutes later and got 334. Same blood. How do you figure? And either way, it doesn't seem to be going down any. Is it time to get a new bottle of Prozinc?
 
This is odd. I did a mid-cycle test and it came out as 313. There was a huge drop of blood on the strip, so I decided to pour it on a new strip not 5 minutes later and got 334. Same blood. How do you figure? And either way, it doesn't seem to be going down any. Is it time to get a new bottle of Prozinc?
They are within the 20% variance so it's the same number. I think she's bouncing today from the 40 and 51 last night.
Keep getting the mid cycle tests. I would still hold the 2 unit dose. Get a mid cycle tonight and again tomorrow morning.
Based on what you have on your spread sheet she has better preshot numbers on the 3rd cycle after a low/bounce. So maybe plan on a curve tomorrow morning or tomorrow evening. Now I can't be positive about all this because there's not enough data to tell us for sure but I think it's worth a shot to see a curve that isn't a full bounce. The +2 or +3 test should give you a hint on if she is having an active cycle or still staying high and flat from the bounce.
 
They are within the 20% variance so it's the same number. I think she's bouncing today from the 40 and 51 last night.
Keep getting the mid cycle tests. I would still hold the 2 unit dose. Get a mid cycle tonight and again tomorrow morning.
Based on what you have on your spread sheet she has better preshot numbers on the 3rd cycle after a low/bounce. So maybe plan on a curve tomorrow morning or tomorrow evening. Now I can't be positive about all this because there's not enough data to tell us for sure but I think it's worth a shot to see a curve that isn't a full bounce. The +2 or +3 test should give you a hint on if she is having an active cycle or still staying high and flat from the bounce.
Okay, I will test her in about 10 minutes. The plumber was here and said my pipe was misaligned with the main pipe in the middle of the street. This is going to cost close to $10,000 to repair and it's my responsibility. My TV is also going off and on. Sorry, I'm a bit distracted.
 
Uhh I would be calling the city maintenance department of the city you live in and asking them questions.
 
Uhh I would be calling the city maintenance department of the city you live in and asking them questions.
No, several people have told me it's the homeowner's responsibility, including the HOA, of course. So what do you think of Chloe's latest BG number?
 
@srk3cats
Still looks flat and high like a bounce. I'm dealing with similar numbers with Chuck. It's frustrating.
Can you see the possible "trend" I mentioned earlier? With the 3rd cycle after a low she seems to have better preshot. Do a mid cycle tonight and maybe a curve in the morning. If her +2 or +3 if you're doing every 3 hours is high you could try again for the evening tomorrow. But doing mini curve for one cycle and regular for the other would give a lot of useful data...
At least get a +4 +5 or +6 for each. That will show how low she's going in the cycles after a low. Which can show how long her bounce lasts. Valuable info!
 
@srk3cats
Still looks flat and high like a bounce. I'm dealing with similar numbers with Chuck. It's frustrating.
Can you see the possible "trend" I mentioned earlier? With the 3rd cycle after a low she seems to have better preshot. Do a mid cycle tonight and maybe a curve in the morning. If her +2 or +3 if you're doing every 3 hours is high you could try again for the evening tomorrow. But doing mini curve for one cycle and regular for the other would give a lot of useful data...
At least get a +4 +5 or +6 for each. That will show how low she's going in the cycles after a low. Which can show how long her bounce lasts. Valuable info!
Sorry for sounding so stupid, but could you please define what a 'cycle' is? And I'm not sure what a mini-curve is. I thought I was doing a curve today. Tomorrow, I will get out of the house, so no curve. Maybe one mid-cycle at 1:eek:o pm, along with the AM and PM. I'm getting cabin fever because it was 116 degrees here today. I think it would be easier for me if you just tell me what times to do a blood draw. My AM is 7:00. It's almost 7:00 pm now and I'm about to do her PM reading. She was really screaming at me around 5 pm, so I gave her some YA (after gently shaking the bag) just to shut her up, so I'm guessing she will be in the upper 300's. Wrong- 307. I don't think you could get any flatter. Pink all day.
 
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please define what a 'cycle' is?
A cycle is the 12 hour time frame between shots.
what a mini-curve is.
Mini curve is testing every 3 hours, so your preshot test at 7, then 10, 1, 4, then next preshot at 7. Some do +3,+9 because they get +6 for most of the cycles every day.
The 1pm test between her preshots is fine. Maybe tomorrow night you can get 7pm, 10, 2am and 5am? That would be close to a mini curve. Giving you a little more time to sleep between 10 and 2.
If not I think preshot at 7 then 10pm and 4am are a good idea. If she goes low enough for no shot by pm tomorrow the mini curve will probably be the beginning of a bounce.
Hopefully I haven't confused you more! If so tell me where and I'll try to explain better. Sometimes it sounds right in my head but not for anyone else!
 
A cycle is the 12 hour time frame between shots.

Mini curve is testing every 3 hours, so your preshot test at 7, then 10, 1, 4, then next preshot at 7. Some do +3,+9 because they get +6 for most of the cycles every day.
The 1pm test between her preshots is fine. Maybe tomorrow night you can get 7pm, 10, 2am and 5am? That would be close to a mini curve. Giving you a little more time to sleep between 10 and 2.
If not I think preshot at 7 then 10pm and 4am are a good idea. If she goes low enough for no shot by pm tomorrow the mini curve will probably be the beginning of a bounce.
Hopefully I haven't confused you more! If so tell me where and I'll try to explain better. Sometimes it sounds right in my head but not for anyone else!
So today I did a mini-curve, right? am???? I usually go to bed at 10pm. I can do one last test then, but staying up all night is really going to mess with my circadian rhythms. Aha! I see you are half my age. When you get to my age, you'll be falling asleep in front of the TV at 9 pm.
 
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So today I did a mini-curve, right?
Kinda. The two tests you did are good time wise. Near typical onset of prozinc and 1 hour after nadir.
In the future you could do 10 and 1, then another day 12 and 3... Just to fill out spots you have no tests in recently.
Every test helps. The preshots give us only where she ends up after the insulin is done working or used up in her body. So the mid cycle tests give us a peek at what her numbers are while it's active.
Dose is best when decided with nadir included in the decision. That's why we push so much for mid cycle tests. And those lows you got for pm preshot is definitely why we insist on preshot tests.
I think you're close to her ideal dose so those tests should tell more. They could prove me wrong!:smuggrin:
 
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Kinda. The two tests you did are good time wise. Near typical onset of prozinc and 1 hour after nadir.
In the future you could do 10 and 1, then another day 12 and 3... Just to fill out spots you have no tests in recently.
Every test helps. The preshots give us only where she ends up after the insulin is done working or used up in her body. So the mid cycle tests give us a peek at what her numbers are while it's active.
Dose is best when decided with nadir included in the decision. That's why we push so much for mid cycle tests. And those lows you got for pm preshot is definitely why we insist on preshot tests.
I think you're close to her ideal dose so those tests should tell more. They could prove me wrong!:smuggrin:
Which is the nadir, +6?
 
Boo on the fur shot! I get so bummed when that happens! But we still go on!
This morning would have been a great cycle for a curve! I thought it would be but couldn't be certain especially after the fur shot.
Did you get any tests in between?
I suspect she will bounce in the morning from the blue and NS. So maybe plan a curve for the morning cycle on the 23rd of she does bounce. I think the 2 units is ok for now.
I think if you gave the fat 2 units you most likely would have seen a green or lime green preshot.
Is she still only picking at the YA Zero?
 
After discussing the big drop from your am preshot to your pm preshot with other members...we agreed that 2 units is a bit too much. A decrease might be needed soon.
With that said, if you can get spot checks in the next 2 cycles we might see the decrease needed sooner than the curve on the 3rd cycle after tonight (AM on 6/23).
If the decrease is done for the curve on AM 6/23 it might give you a shootable pm preshot and level her out a bit.

I strongly suggest doing the curve I mentioned (like 5 times in this post sorry) so you can get her closer to regulation numbers! :D
 
After discussing the big drop from your am preshot to your pm preshot with other members...we agreed that 2 units is a bit too much. A decrease might be needed soon.
With that said, if you can get spot checks in the next 2 cycles we might see the decrease needed sooner than the curve on the 3rd cycle after tonight (AM on 6/23).
If the decrease is done for the curve on AM 6/23 it might give you a shootable pm preshot and level her out a bit.

I strongly suggest doing the curve I mentioned (like 5 times in this post sorry) so you can get her closer to regulation numbers! :D
Sorry, Steph, apparently I'm not getting the alerts again. I promise to do a curve tomorrow. This is the 2nd day in a row that she's gone from 400's on the AM to 100's on the PM. Should I give her a reduced dose like 1 unit or wait and do another test in 3 hours and then decide? She's gobbling down the FF.
 
@srk3cats
I think even a reduced dose tonight would be too risky. If you give her any tonight she can bounce tomorrow morning and the chance for a good curve is gone. I think no shot tonight.
Then in the morning you could give her 1.75 units in the morning, she'll probably be near 400 again. Then do the full curve. You will probably get a shootable number for her pm shot tomorrow and we can go from there.
 
Oh dear Steph. not happening today. Will get a mid-cycle at 2:00, though.
215 @+7(2pm) compare that with the 316 on 6/20 and you can see the difference a bounce makes!
Curious to see what her PMPS will be.
Please plan on doing a curve sometime soon, not a bounce cycle. The mid cycle tests are proving to be very valuable. The more the better!
 
215 @+7(2pm) compare that with the 316 on 6/20 and you can see the difference a bounce makes!
Curious to see what her PMPS will be.
Please plan on doing a curve sometime soon, not a bounce cycle. The mid cycle tests are proving to be very valuable. The more the better!
The little bugger squirmed and got away just as I was going to collect the blood on the test strip! I gave her 1.5 u. and will try again later. She's been eating her YA.
 
Oh no. I wouldn't have given her insulin without the test first. She's dropped into mid 100s the last two pm preshots.
Please do get the test and maybe another test at 11pm (+4) to make sure she isn't going hypo.
 
Oh no. I wouldn't have given her insulin without the test first. She's dropped into mid 100s the last two pm preshots.
Please do get the test and maybe another test at 11pm (+4) to make sure she isn't going hypo.
I got the test done this morning (302) and then she was devouring her FF. But as soon as she saw the needle, she ran under the bed and I haven't been able to find her since. She's gotten so small, she could be hiding anywhere. Treats don't tempt her either. I finally got her at 8:40 after chasing her all around the house. So now my injection time is moved up to 8:30.
 
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Oh man that stinks. Chuck responds to me flicking his treat packet back and forth. He loves the stuff and won't refuse it.
He also only has 3 hiding spots and I blocked one off. She's probably going to take a nap after eating.
I don't know what tips might work with shot time.
You could just skip the shot or give it late. If you give it late it's going to offset your pm time by that much too.
How much were you giving on the 302?
I think you should try 1.75 or 1.5 units to see if you get a shootable number for her pm shot.

I'm not sure about this but she could be associating the shot with making her feel yucky when she goes low. She could have last night even after the snack after her test.
 
Oh man that stinks. Chuck responds to me flicking his treat packet back and forth. He loves the stuff and won't refuse it.
He also only has 3 hiding spots and I blocked one off. She's probably going to take a nap after eating.
I don't know what tips might work with shot time.
You could just skip the shot or give it late. If you give it late it's going to offset your pm time by that much too.
How much were you giving on the 302?
I think you should try 1.75 or 1.5 units to see if you get a shootable number for her pm shot.

I'm not sure about this but she could be associating the shot with making her feel yucky when she goes low. She could have last night even after the snack after her test.
I have a feeling that I shot her with a crooked needle yesterday. It was bent when I threw it away. Or, I've been having some trouble pricking her ears the past couple days. It took me 3 tries this morning. Also, last night, I brought Fuzma in to sleep with us and she sleeps in Chloe's blood test spot by the nightstand. I just spent some time lying down with Chloe and petting her until she purred. I think she forgives me.
 
I've only had problems getting blood a few times but it helped when I would run the ear between my fingers for a few seconds. You could try warming it up with a rice sock if being cold is the issue.
I have had a bent before before. No idea why that happens but I'm sure it doesn't feel good.
Glad she forgives you.
 
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