Chip 7/28 - 8/4
- Thread starter Dale 'n' Chip
- Start date
- Status
hmjohnston
Member Since 2011
I can't recall- did you have Chip tested for IAA or acro?
Someone told me, when Sneakers IAA came back negative and before her acro test came back, that she just might be naturally resistant and once it got high enough to break she would come down.
What carb is your food? I know it would be low but the chart looks kind of like Sneakers when I was mixing her carbs from 0-5% in a catch-all. Now I only do cans of 2% or 3% at a time because she is so carb sensitive and it does raise her BG levels. So if I throw in a 4% or 5% I note it and look for the spike.
As for me, I would LOVE to have a 1.75u dose right now
.
Someone told me, when Sneakers IAA came back negative and before her acro test came back, that she just might be naturally resistant and once it got high enough to break she would come down.
What carb is your food? I know it would be low but the chart looks kind of like Sneakers when I was mixing her carbs from 0-5% in a catch-all. Now I only do cans of 2% or 3% at a time because she is so carb sensitive and it does raise her BG levels. So if I throw in a 4% or 5% I note it and look for the spike.
As for me, I would LOVE to have a 1.75u dose right now
.
Dale 'n' Chip
Member Since 2012
I know high dose kitties don't get to look back even a few months. No tests for Chip, but it was only 3 short weeks ago when he was still seeing green with 1.5U Lantus.
So this problem seems to be specific to Levemir. Scroll up a bit and you can see the dramatic difference.
The food is FF Chicken Feast Classic and FF Tender Beef and Chicken Feast Classic @ 4% and 3% which is all he will eat for now, I don't suspect he is terribly carb sensitive.
So this problem seems to be specific to Levemir. Scroll up a bit and you can see the dramatic difference.
The food is FF Chicken Feast Classic and FF Tender Beef and Chicken Feast Classic @ 4% and 3% which is all he will eat for now, I don't suspect he is terribly carb sensitive.
hmjohnston
Member Since 2011
Wow! Yellows, blues, AND greens (haven't had one of those yet) all on 1.5u but he was also seeing some reds in there.
He's not sneaking any other food? Not stealing your cheese? Picking off some bread (I have to keep mine in the fridge now)? Getting into the yogurt? Snagging a slurp of milk? Getting something before PS?
The last two reds are really weird- I think this morning's might have been a bounce because of yesterday's really low AMPS as it seems to run a cycle or two behind a low and the other one might be b/c of the
That is strange, to say the least. If I was over in PZI i'd say ask Carl but you might need to wait until Sheila gets back or until lu gets on.
Sorry Dale.
He's not sneaking any other food? Not stealing your cheese? Picking off some bread (I have to keep mine in the fridge now)? Getting into the yogurt? Snagging a slurp of milk? Getting something before PS?
The last two reds are really weird- I think this morning's might have been a bounce because of yesterday's really low AMPS as it seems to run a cycle or two behind a low and the other one might be b/c of the
That is strange, to say the least. If I was over in PZI i'd say ask Carl but you might need to wait until Sheila gets back or until lu gets on.
Sorry Dale.
Dale 'n' Chip
Member Since 2012
This is the kind of thing where I'd normally want to change out the FlexPen right away.
However if it was the pen, it seemed to be from day one and would likely affect the whole box? But I don't believe this pen should be a problem. It came from DCIN stock (directly from Venita) and has been handled correctly. There is a remote possibility it got too cold during the overnight shipping but it wasn't touching the coldpack so I really doubt that.
Another possibility might be that his albumin isn't releasing Detemir or something along those lines, which might be why the lowly glargine seemed to have so much more action from day 1. And at any dose by comparison.
But it doesn't seem like he is getting absolutely nothing, or he'd surely be in worse shape than he is now. Just seems like maybe the dose is way too low. Or Levemir is just so smooth and gentle that his counterregulatory response is staying miles ahead of the dose.
However if it was the pen, it seemed to be from day one and would likely affect the whole box? But I don't believe this pen should be a problem. It came from DCIN stock (directly from Venita) and has been handled correctly. There is a remote possibility it got too cold during the overnight shipping but it wasn't touching the coldpack so I really doubt that.
Another possibility might be that his albumin isn't releasing Detemir or something along those lines, which might be why the lowly glargine seemed to have so much more action from day 1. And at any dose by comparison.
But it doesn't seem like he is getting absolutely nothing, or he'd surely be in worse shape than he is now. Just seems like maybe the dose is way too low. Or Levemir is just so smooth and gentle that his counterregulatory response is staying miles ahead of the dose.
Pumbaa
Member Since 2012
I wish I had magic answers for you, Dale, but I don't. How about some questions/suggestions, instead:
1) Is Chip still acting better than he was before, on the Lantus?
2) If the above is "true", and, since Levemir is supposed to be more potent than Lantus at the same dose, I would seriously consider getting a new vial/pen of Levemir and testing that before abandoning the Levemir. Especially since you are relying on the results from one single pen, which has a history more complex than shipping from manufacturer to retailer's warehouse to retailer's point of sale.
3) Could Chip have developed an infection of some sort in the meantime? You had him on Clavamox on 6/5/12 for some reason...was that precautionary? I can't remember.
4) When is the last time you tested your test strips with control solution?
You've done so much research and have worked so hard to bring Chip's numbers down, it breaks my heart to see him reacting this way with his numbers. There has got to be a reason, and it just takes some diligent detective work (which you have been doing) to figure out the cause. And once you do, get ready for excellent results! (((HUGS)))
Suze
1) Is Chip still acting better than he was before, on the Lantus?
2) If the above is "true", and, since Levemir is supposed to be more potent than Lantus at the same dose, I would seriously consider getting a new vial/pen of Levemir and testing that before abandoning the Levemir. Especially since you are relying on the results from one single pen, which has a history more complex than shipping from manufacturer to retailer's warehouse to retailer's point of sale.
3) Could Chip have developed an infection of some sort in the meantime? You had him on Clavamox on 6/5/12 for some reason...was that precautionary? I can't remember.
4) When is the last time you tested your test strips with control solution?
You've done so much research and have worked so hard to bring Chip's numbers down, it breaks my heart to see him reacting this way with his numbers. There has got to be a reason, and it just takes some diligent detective work (which you have been doing) to figure out the cause. And once you do, get ready for excellent results! (((HUGS)))
Suze
Dale 'n' Chip
Member Since 2012
Pumbaa said:
1) He's fine. Or as good as could be expected after spending weeks mostly above the renal threshold? Actually he's pretty good.
2) I would like to do that, but if it's the same old same old, then I would have 2 open and unfinished Levemirs and still might need to do something else.
3) Still on precautionary clavamox. Still no evidence of infection.
4) I'm sure the test strips are good. I've used a few more relion strips and they also show the same flat pink.
Don't know what is going on but it does seem kind of suspicious that he would have much more resistance to Levemir than to Lantus in such a short time period.
Grayson & Lu
Member Since 2012
I'm thinking it's just the dose. It may be that more Lev is needed than Lantus for the same results. You've gotten a lot of yellow AMPSs as you've increased, so that leads me to believe you're just not quite there. Like I said in the other thread, it wasnt' til we got past his ProZinc dose that I started seeing some action. But that's also dealing with the resistance, so I'm not sure how it would affect a non-resistant kitty.
Keep in mind we've only been here for 2 months, so hoping someone else will pop in and share more experience.
Lu-Ann
Keep in mind we've only been here for 2 months, so hoping someone else will pop in and share more experience.
Lu-Ann
Pumbaa
Member Since 2012
Good response to 1 though 4 above. Other than the expense of the insulin preventing you and me and everyone else from economically testing alternatives. *sigh*
I know you might be conserving test strips since your ADW order was delayed, but once the new meter and strips arrive, are you going to start doing more testing, like +3 +6 +9? I would hate to think you are missing some good numbers. I would have missed Pumbaa's 94 this morning had I not been so anal-retentive about testing, especially since his nadir is all over the place!
I know you might be conserving test strips since your ADW order was delayed, but once the new meter and strips arrive, are you going to start doing more testing, like +3 +6 +9? I would hate to think you are missing some good numbers. I would have missed Pumbaa's 94 this morning had I not been so anal-retentive about testing, especially since his nadir is all over the place!
Dale 'n' Chip
Member Since 2012
I have plenty of test strips, it's just there is nothing to see at +3 and +6 but rising or flat pink.
I get +9 whenever I can.
At least at this dose he seems to be going yellow part of every 24 hours. @-)
I get +9 whenever I can.
At least at this dose he seems to be going yellow part of every 24 hours. @-)
Dale
I just wanted you to know that when I switched Gracie from lantus to levemir, she was not one of those whose numbers came flying down the first few cycles. In fact, I fast tracked her early on. She was getting greens on .75u of lantus. I had to take her all the way up to 1.25u of lev before she started seeing green but had to go up to f1.25u to start seeing decent cycles. Jill told me when we switched that it could take weeks or even months for her to get where we were on lantus but, after a year on lantus, I just felt she wasn't making progress.
As soon as my work schedule changed, I switched her to lev. I would say it took about four months before she started looking as good as she did on lantus...but at a higher dose. But she did start to flatten out quite a bit more. It took six months before she made some enormous strides in her progress.
You are taking him up slowly, which is good; he just might need more lev. I have no idea why some cats do and some don't. But it's all about patience now.
Good luck.
I just wanted you to know that when I switched Gracie from lantus to levemir, she was not one of those whose numbers came flying down the first few cycles. In fact, I fast tracked her early on. She was getting greens on .75u of lantus. I had to take her all the way up to 1.25u of lev before she started seeing green but had to go up to f1.25u to start seeing decent cycles. Jill told me when we switched that it could take weeks or even months for her to get where we were on lantus but, after a year on lantus, I just felt she wasn't making progress.
As soon as my work schedule changed, I switched her to lev. I would say it took about four months before she started looking as good as she did on lantus...but at a higher dose. But she did start to flatten out quite a bit more. It took six months before she made some enormous strides in her progress.
You are taking him up slowly, which is good; he just might need more lev. I have no idea why some cats do and some don't. But it's all about patience now.
Good luck.
Dale 'n' Chip
Member Since 2012
Guess Chip read that one because he's been all but flat pink ever since. :-|Pumbaa said:
I see Pumbaa got the same idea.
Wonder when I pull the plug on this?
Dale 'n' Chip
Member Since 2012
With Pumbaa it probably is just the dosing. Time to take him directly to 2.5 in the morning?
With Chip I just don't know. His numbers sure look the sea of pinks of a high dose kitty.
But I still don't see how that comes on suddenly overnight. :?
With Chip I just don't know. His numbers sure look the sea of pinks of a high dose kitty.
But I still don't see how that comes on suddenly overnight. :?
Pumbaa
Member Since 2012
Well, you just raised Chip to 2.25U this morning, so you might as well give the shed time to fill and this dose time to settle in before doing anything drastic.
Marje said to be patient. But I'm curious if anyone else has seen anything like this flat response for so long.
My brain still keeps going back to the insulin, and if somehow it was compromised/weakened in any way. If you take Chip up too high, and then have to start a new pen, and the insulin in this pen was weakened/compromised, that would not be a good thing.
That's why I'm questioning the new pen I started yesterday morning. Pumbaa had been clearing bounces a lot quicker than this lately, and the one big change was a new Lantus pen. I immediately get suspicious. I'll use the same pen tonight, and see what happens, but tomorrow I think I'll go back to what is left in Pen #1 as a test.
Marje said to be patient. But I'm curious if anyone else has seen anything like this flat response for so long.
My brain still keeps going back to the insulin, and if somehow it was compromised/weakened in any way. If you take Chip up too high, and then have to start a new pen, and the insulin in this pen was weakened/compromised, that would not be a good thing.
That's why I'm questioning the new pen I started yesterday morning. Pumbaa had been clearing bounces a lot quicker than this lately, and the one big change was a new Lantus pen. I immediately get suspicious. I'll use the same pen tonight, and see what happens, but tomorrow I think I'll go back to what is left in Pen #1 as a test.
Dale
I have had some problems with my lev pens. I've wondered if it was the way they were shipped to Arizona. I had one that was causing her to come out of regulation and throw pinks and yellows. The company replaced the entire pack of pens.
I have had some problems with my lev pens. I've wondered if it was the way they were shipped to Arizona. I had one that was causing her to come out of regulation and throw pinks and yellows. The company replaced the entire pack of pens.
Dale 'n' Chip
Member Since 2012
Ah... so those were ordered from Canada? How were the replacements shipped/handled?Marjorie and Gracie said:
Do you think these numbers look like a problem pen? It's clear and pristine, definitely no floaties or crystals and it was shipped properly from Venita. But if there is any chance it's pen and not Chip's compatibility with Levemir (or lack thereof) I really should try some known good Levemir before I give up. Then again if that's not it, I may need to get more Lantus instead.
Sheila & Beau GA & Jeddie GA
Member Since 2009
I have not ever seen anything like this response to lev after decent numbers being achieved on lantus. It makes me think that there are only two reasons for this: damaged insulin or a lack of sufficient albumin to bind with the insulin. The later is pretty unlikely - I mean, he would have other more severe issues then just the lack of response to insulin.
Which leaves the insulin. Dale, where do you live? Maybe there is someone hear you that could sell you one pen? I have about a third of Jeddie's last pen I could send, but with the temps the way they are, I don't know about it surviving the trip. It happened to have expired a couple of days ago (July) but I think it is OK as it was working fine a month ago - well, maybe I should say 30+ days ago.....
I feel like this is like asking if the non-working appliance is plugged in, but how and where are you shooting? Have you tried a new location? You know to not shoot into the scruff, right? I used to shoot both boys below the scruff area and to either side of the spine by about 1" and into the base of the tent almost parallel to their back (slight angle down to it).
From: http://208.43.227.35/med/3036
Which leaves the insulin. Dale, where do you live? Maybe there is someone hear you that could sell you one pen? I have about a third of Jeddie's last pen I could send, but with the temps the way they are, I don't know about it surviving the trip. It happened to have expired a couple of days ago (July) but I think it is OK as it was working fine a month ago - well, maybe I should say 30+ days ago.....
I feel like this is like asking if the non-working appliance is plugged in, but how and where are you shooting? Have you tried a new location? You know to not shoot into the scruff, right? I used to shoot both boys below the scruff area and to either side of the spine by about 1" and into the base of the tent almost parallel to their back (slight angle down to it).
Dale 'n' Chip
Member Since 2012
I shoot in the side, not the scruff. And I move it around.Sheila & Beau & Jeddie (GA) said:
Well this is pretty scary, he might have just gone almost a month without proper insulin? No wonder he's not bouncing. nailbite_smileSheila & Beau & Jeddie (GA) said:
But to get beyond this possibility likely means no more split boxes, toasted orders from Canada, or especially no scavenged or used FlexPens. That leaves about three options. Get a vial from Walgreens (then order from Canada in a few months?) or use the coupon to get a box from Walmart.
Or use the other coupon to get a box of Solostar pens. :?
Pumbaa
Member Since 2012
I'm thinking that Chip has had some activity, and he hasn't reverted to hyper symptoms, so maybe the Levemir is just weaker than it should be. I like being an optimist! Since you said that his personality is better on the Levemir, and it doesn't sting him like the Lantus did, my vote would be to give a new pen/vial of Levemir a chance. Just MHO, though. You're the one who is investing the time and money.
Good luck on a difficult decision! (((HUGS)))
Good luck on a difficult decision! (((HUGS)))
Dale 'n' Chip
Member Since 2012
It really is a hard decision. Especially since others (Vicky?) are leaning towards it being a dosing problem. And still others are saying it may take months after the transition to see results.
Another thought I had is this might have been one of the first pens Venita shipped USPS. They may be irradiating or x-raying the parcels? And it sounds like DCIN switched back to FedEx since.
The safest option would probably be to get Lantus. But that's also the most expensive option in any scenario. And Lantus is supposed to be slightly more fragile than
Levemir?
I've looked at Gracie's SS and I can't readily spot a case where the new pen changed the numbers. I always wondered why those presumably nearly full FlexPens were changed after 8 or 10 days.
Another thought I had is this might have been one of the first pens Venita shipped USPS. They may be irradiating or x-raying the parcels? And it sounds like DCIN switched back to FedEx since.
The safest option would probably be to get Lantus. But that's also the most expensive option in any scenario. And Lantus is supposed to be slightly more fragile than
Levemir?
I've looked at Gracie's SS and I can't readily spot a case where the new pen changed the numbers. I always wondered why those presumably nearly full FlexPens were changed after 8 or 10 days.
Dale 'n' Chip
Member Since 2012
The mystery deepens if that's even possible. I finally found the notes at the bottom of Gracie's SS. Sounds like the potentially "bad" pens came from the local Pharmacy? The clue that something might be wrong was some bubbles?Dale 'n' Chip said:
So getting FlexPens locally may not be foolproof either.
I once saw a tiny air bubble in this FlexPen but I figured it came from the syringe. My solostar pen never had a single bubble. @-)
Sheila & Beau GA & Jeddie GA
Member Since 2009
I got bubble pretty often. One pen's vacuum stopper didn't work so I got little movement in it - and lots of air. never effected the insulin.
There can be some movement in numbers even without insulin. I did a trial off insulin with Beau when he was on vetsulin and he kept himself between about 225 and 300 (if I remember correctly). They won't have flat numbers off insulin. I think it would be seeing numbers dipping by 100 points or better on a regular basis - like every shot so you know it is caused by the insulin.
I would get lev locally - if it were bad, you could return it. If you have a coupon you can use, then do that. But aren't all coupons for human scripts?
And now for some really "drive you nuts" news. My ex uses lev and his doctor had a new shipment in there fridge and the office had a 6 hour power outage. Fridge was never opened during that time, but all of that insulin has to be destroyed as unusable! I am sure it is fine, but there is one of the reasons the stuff is so damned expensive.
There can be some movement in numbers even without insulin. I did a trial off insulin with Beau when he was on vetsulin and he kept himself between about 225 and 300 (if I remember correctly). They won't have flat numbers off insulin. I think it would be seeing numbers dipping by 100 points or better on a regular basis - like every shot so you know it is caused by the insulin.
I would get lev locally - if it were bad, you could return it. If you have a coupon you can use, then do that. But aren't all coupons for human scripts?
And now for some really "drive you nuts" news. My ex uses lev and his doctor had a new shipment in there fridge and the office had a 6 hour power outage. Fridge was never opened during that time, but all of that insulin has to be destroyed as unusable! I am sure it is fine, but there is one of the reasons the stuff is so damned expensive.
Pumbaa
Member Since 2012
Hey Chippendale's:
I just checked Chip's SS, as I do every day, and saw that you dropped him down to 1.0U and started a new flex pen! So you did decide to stay with the Levemir and give it a chance?
You have NO clue how I'm praying that you start seeing better numbers quickly, even though the shed needs to replace itself with the new insulin.
Go, Chip, go! Make your daddy happy and start giving him some good numbers to cause him some sleepless nights like the rest of us have!
But, you have to promise to not bounce and not take dives anymore. And stop conferring with Pumbaa about giving us pink numbers, and concentrate on the blues and greens, okay?
I truly, truly hope that this new pen makes a difference!
Suze
I just checked Chip's SS, as I do every day, and saw that you dropped him down to 1.0U and started a new flex pen! So you did decide to stay with the Levemir and give it a chance?
You have NO clue how I'm praying that you start seeing better numbers quickly, even though the shed needs to replace itself with the new insulin.
Go, Chip, go! Make your daddy happy and start giving him some good numbers to cause him some sleepless nights like the rest of us have!
But, you have to promise to not bounce and not take dives anymore. And stop conferring with Pumbaa about giving us pink numbers, and concentrate on the blues and greens, okay?I truly, truly hope that this new pen makes a difference!
Suze
Dale 'n' Chip
Member Since 2012
I know you have been worried about this pen since the beginning of week 2. I trust your instincts on this, it's just not something worth risking.
Sheila scared the bejebus out of me when she said there was at least a possibility the pen could be bad. I do agree that Chip's numbers don't look like any others I've seen so far. But my hunch also says Vicky is correct (and I've yet to see a single spreadsheet showing otherwise) that a new pen doesn't change things like this. If Vicky is correct, I will go back and use up Venita's DCIN pen which is actually 3 months newer. If that isn't the case, then I made the right move to change it out now.
I needed to do something anyway since I wasn't willing to order from Canada in this heat, which may continue for another month or two. It's ironic that just today there was finally room on the credit card for this.
Sheila scared the bejebus out of me when she said there was at least a possibility the pen could be bad. I do agree that Chip's numbers don't look like any others I've seen so far. But my hunch also says Vicky is correct (and I've yet to see a single spreadsheet showing otherwise) that a new pen doesn't change things like this. If Vicky is correct, I will go back and use up Venita's DCIN pen which is actually 3 months newer. If that isn't the case, then I made the right move to change it out now.
I needed to do something anyway since I wasn't willing to order from Canada in this heat, which may continue for another month or two. It's ironic that just today there was finally room on the credit card for this.
Pumbaa
Member Since 2012
You know I was already questioning the new Lantus pen when Pumbaa took longer to clear a bounce yesterday than he had recently. *LOL*
We have no control over how this insulin is handled/manhandled before we receive it and start taking proper care of it. I mean, my god, I can't even keep it on the fridge door!
Do the receiving clerks at Costo/Walmart/Walgreen's/etc. play catch with the boxes of insulin while they are offloading from the trucks? What happens to this insulin once it leaves the manufacturer? How long does it sit in the blazing sun on a loading dock somewhere? How long is it in a very hot truck being transported cross-country? *sigh*
Thank you for trusting my instincts, but it was more questioning the one major variable that needed to be questioned. It's easier to assume that the Levemir pen wasn't at full strength than it was to speculate that Chip couldn't absorb the Levemir for some reason. The odds are in the favor of the insulin being not up to par.
I don't recall seeing Vicky's post to you, about how a new pen doesn't change anything. Again, to me, the insulin is the first thing you question and test, as that is what is supposed to be controlling the numbers.
And I know that people were telling you that Chip wasn't getting enough insulin, but what worried me was that, if this pen was bad, when you switched, he would go hypo quickly due to the difference in strengths.
I so want Chip to do better with this new Levemir pen!
And if he doesn't, then you will know that, for some odd reason, he doesn't react to Levemir as he did to Lantus. But you would never have known this without the test you are now doing.
(((HUGS))) to you Dale, for all that you do for your Chip!
Suze
We have no control over how this insulin is handled/manhandled before we receive it and start taking proper care of it. I mean, my god, I can't even keep it on the fridge door!
Do the receiving clerks at Costo/Walmart/Walgreen's/etc. play catch with the boxes of insulin while they are offloading from the trucks? What happens to this insulin once it leaves the manufacturer? How long does it sit in the blazing sun on a loading dock somewhere? How long is it in a very hot truck being transported cross-country? *sigh*
Thank you for trusting my instincts, but it was more questioning the one major variable that needed to be questioned. It's easier to assume that the Levemir pen wasn't at full strength than it was to speculate that Chip couldn't absorb the Levemir for some reason. The odds are in the favor of the insulin being not up to par.
I don't recall seeing Vicky's post to you, about how a new pen doesn't change anything. Again, to me, the insulin is the first thing you question and test, as that is what is supposed to be controlling the numbers.
And I know that people were telling you that Chip wasn't getting enough insulin, but what worried me was that, if this pen was bad, when you switched, he would go hypo quickly due to the difference in strengths.
I so want Chip to do better with this new Levemir pen!
And if he doesn't, then you will know that, for some odd reason, he doesn't react to Levemir as he did to Lantus. But you would never have known this without the test you are now doing.
(((HUGS))) to you Dale, for all that you do for your Chip!
Suze
Sheila & Beau GA & Jeddie GA
Member Since 2009
Yep, keeping paws crossed for better numbers out of the gate with the new pen...
As Vicky said, a new pen won't change the numbers IF the old pen was good insulin. Since "we" don't know the potency of Dale's old pen (yet) the wise thing to do is drop the dose for a few days and see what happens.
The only other explanation, which I don't think is a possibility because I have been closely examining Chip's SS for evidence of it, is that he suddenly needs little or no insulin and is in constant rebound state. I think there would have been a drop to very low numbers or at least a green or two by now if that were the case.
This is like some great experiment and I am sorry that you have to go through it, Dale. Not sure if it helps that it is stumping the rest of us too.
As Vicky said, a new pen won't change the numbers IF the old pen was good insulin. Since "we" don't know the potency of Dale's old pen (yet) the wise thing to do is drop the dose for a few days and see what happens.
The only other explanation, which I don't think is a possibility because I have been closely examining Chip's SS for evidence of it, is that he suddenly needs little or no insulin and is in constant rebound state. I think there would have been a drop to very low numbers or at least a green or two by now if that were the case.
This is like some great experiment and I am sorry that you have to go through it, Dale. Not sure if it helps that it is stumping the rest of us too.
Dale 'n' Chip
Member Since 2012
No dips or bounces so far. Only killed the fleeting blush of yellow.
The three big chicken shots are looking a little silly now.
Time to crank that sucker up.
The three big chicken shots are looking a little silly now.
Time to crank that sucker up.
Pumbaa
Member Since 2012
Nothing you've done looks silly! Should I repeat that?
Nothing you've done looks silly! It looks like it was done out of love for Chip!
Give the new pen time to settle in, and for the shed to settle in. This could take more than 3 cycles. Just remember that you can up a low dose, but you can't take away too high of a dose.
Suze
Nothing you've done looks silly! It looks like it was done out of love for Chip!
Give the new pen time to settle in, and for the shed to settle in. This could take more than 3 cycles. Just remember that you can up a low dose, but you can't take away too high of a dose.
Suze
Dale 'n' Chip
Member Since 2012
It might take 6 cycles if they were legitimate increases. But they were more like chicken shots since I didn't know the relative potency or how he would react.
But now I know. So in waiting around longer I'm only losing the shed he had.
Since he didn't dip or bounce from the 1U so far, it's becoming more clear that the 2.25 was edging him to yellow, while he is practically unaware of the *new* 1U.
But now I know. So in waiting around longer I'm only losing the shed he had.
Since he didn't dip or bounce from the 1U so far, it's becoming more clear that the 2.25 was edging him to yellow, while he is practically unaware of the *new* 1U.
Dale 'n' Chip
Member Since 2012
I was only going to "crank it up" to 1.5U per the protocol. Is that so crazy?
Can't say I'm not seriously temped to to ride the gentle giant straight to 2.5U. Time is a wasting.
But that might be a little crazy. :shock:
Can't say I'm not seriously temped to to ride the gentle giant straight to 2.5U. Time is a wasting.
But that might be a little crazy. :shock:
Pumbaa
Member Since 2012
Put on those patience pants and give this new pen and new dose some time for Chip to assimilate.
As I have learned, you can always increase the dose, but once you commit to a higher dose, you can't take it back. And too little insulin can be damaging over time, but too much insulin can kill, quickly.
I know you want to see action of some sort, but you don't want to miss Chip's ideal dose or put him in harms way by increasing too quickly. Right?
(((HUGS)))
As I have learned, you can always increase the dose, but once you commit to a higher dose, you can't take it back. And too little insulin can be damaging over time, but too much insulin can kill, quickly.
I know you want to see action of some sort, but you don't want to miss Chip's ideal dose or put him in harms way by increasing too quickly. Right?
(((HUGS)))
Dale 'n' Chip
Member Since 2012
Way to make it inconclusive Chip. Yellow? 
He saw yellow on 0.5U of the old pen.
He saw blue on 1.0 of the old pen.
So we won't crank it (way) up just yet.
He saw yellow on 0.5U of the old pen.
He saw blue on 1.0 of the old pen.
So we won't crank it (way) up just yet.
Jessica & Boo Radley
Member Since 2011
Dale,
For what it's worth, one thing I noticed with Boo after switching over, was that he needs MUCH longer to settle into a dose. In all fairness, I'm not quite sure it was just Levemir related because because I not sure if I ever gave any insulin dose enough time for Boo. I would follow the "change every 3-5 days" and he seemed to give me nothing but pinks and yellows with maybe a blue here and there. I was changing too fast for Boo's system and his system seemed to go into defense mode.
He is remarkable at counter-regulating, so the extra time has made a difference in what the dose does. When I say extra time, I mean like 10+ days at a dose. His body is very sensitive to normal numbers, and almost like clockwork, he bounces. With the extra time at a dose, he seems to "get used to" a lower number and can hold it longer.
We've been traveling the past two weeks, so just note, if you look at his spreadsheet, the slight increase two weeks ago was more for my sake than an increase because the dose wasn't "working". We got home last night, so I'm going to work on now getting him back to where he should be.
For what it's worth, one thing I noticed with Boo after switching over, was that he needs MUCH longer to settle into a dose. In all fairness, I'm not quite sure it was just Levemir related because because I not sure if I ever gave any insulin dose enough time for Boo. I would follow the "change every 3-5 days" and he seemed to give me nothing but pinks and yellows with maybe a blue here and there. I was changing too fast for Boo's system and his system seemed to go into defense mode.
He is remarkable at counter-regulating, so the extra time has made a difference in what the dose does. When I say extra time, I mean like 10+ days at a dose. His body is very sensitive to normal numbers, and almost like clockwork, he bounces. With the extra time at a dose, he seems to "get used to" a lower number and can hold it longer.
We've been traveling the past two weeks, so just note, if you look at his spreadsheet, the slight increase two weeks ago was more for my sake than an increase because the dose wasn't "working". We got home last night, so I'm going to work on now getting him back to where he should be.
Dale 'n' Chip
Member Since 2012
Chip can take longer too. He took 6 days to throw to throw greens on 1.5U Lantus. I held the dose for 3 weeks and he threw more greens out of nowhere. At the time I wondered if the dose was too high. But looking back now I suspect it was a little too low for that time.Jessica & Boo Radley said:
I've been guilty of departing from the protocol to leave him flat pink, and I suspect that only makes him need more. Rand says to up by 0.5U every 24-48 hours when they are flat pink (not a bounce) until you get them to lower yellows. I've been failing on that count, being timid about raising too fast.
Chip hasn't bounced black once on Levemir. While great, it may be a sign that I'm still below the breakthrough dose as it currently stands. I really need to get Chip up to where he see's more action.
hmjohnston
Member Since 2011
Even just glancing at the chart I see more yellows than pinks!
Go Chip go!
Go Chip go!
Dale
I'm sorry I didn't get back to you sooner to answer your question. Please feel free to PM me if you ask a question based on a post and I don't respond right away. It's been busy in Lantus TR ISG and with other stuff but I would have
popped back in sooner if I'd gotten a PM.
I buy my pens at Costco. The first box I bought, I noticed that when I picked it up it had been sitting on the counter for who knows how long. One of the pens that I had major problems with (look at Gracie's SS for last Dec) was in that box. I started it on 12/2 and her numbers went way up so I started a new pen on 12/20 and things improved. But the pens weren't lasting very long before I'd start seeing higher numbers so I called the manufacturer and they replaced the box. I made sure I spoke directly with the pharmacist at Costco and that the pens were kept in the frig the entire time until I picked them up. The manufacturer did tell me that bubbles were normal and often form during transit and they shouldn't affect the efficacy of the insulin as long as there were no particles or floaties.
I also had developed a bad habit of taking the pen out, drawing the insulin out of it and then laying it on the counter while I messed with my dose. I did some reading and found that as you get to the last 20-30 units in a pen, because there is less insulin in the pen, it can be influenced more by temperature changes so the insulin can become less efficacious if it is left out and that small volume is subject to temp changes. Since I was having to redraw my doses because of the very inaccurate MJ syringes, then I was going through the insulin faster and getting to the last 20-30u faster.
Now, I draw the dose, put the pen immediately back in the frig. I just changed to Terumo syringes which I like SO MUCH better but I did have to do several redraws before I figured them out and how to easily get the one bubble out that comes when I draw. I used my last pen to the last drop but because I was redrawing, it went fast. So...I'm hoping now with the pen I just opened and with having figured out the best way to draw the dose ONCE, that this pen can be used to the last drop. The one is issue is my husband prefers I change the pen out after 30-40 days because he doesn't trust the efficacy with all the issues we have had. So we'll see what happens.
We are very fortunate because I have pet insurance on Gracie which I got when she was a baby so they cover her FD and pay in full for the insulin. Not that I like wasting it...I don't ....but at least I'm not nailbite_smile nailbite_smile nailbite_smile over the cost of the insulin if I have to redraw.
Hoping things improve for Chip.
I'm sorry I didn't get back to you sooner to answer your question. Please feel free to PM me if you ask a question based on a post and I don't respond right away. It's been busy in Lantus TR ISG and with other stuff but I would have
popped back in sooner if I'd gotten a PM.
I buy my pens at Costco. The first box I bought, I noticed that when I picked it up it had been sitting on the counter for who knows how long. One of the pens that I had major problems with (look at Gracie's SS for last Dec) was in that box. I started it on 12/2 and her numbers went way up so I started a new pen on 12/20 and things improved. But the pens weren't lasting very long before I'd start seeing higher numbers so I called the manufacturer and they replaced the box. I made sure I spoke directly with the pharmacist at Costco and that the pens were kept in the frig the entire time until I picked them up. The manufacturer did tell me that bubbles were normal and often form during transit and they shouldn't affect the efficacy of the insulin as long as there were no particles or floaties.
I also had developed a bad habit of taking the pen out, drawing the insulin out of it and then laying it on the counter while I messed with my dose. I did some reading and found that as you get to the last 20-30 units in a pen, because there is less insulin in the pen, it can be influenced more by temperature changes so the insulin can become less efficacious if it is left out and that small volume is subject to temp changes. Since I was having to redraw my doses because of the very inaccurate MJ syringes, then I was going through the insulin faster and getting to the last 20-30u faster.
Now, I draw the dose, put the pen immediately back in the frig. I just changed to Terumo syringes which I like SO MUCH better but I did have to do several redraws before I figured them out and how to easily get the one bubble out that comes when I draw. I used my last pen to the last drop but because I was redrawing, it went fast. So...I'm hoping now with the pen I just opened and with having figured out the best way to draw the dose ONCE, that this pen can be used to the last drop. The one is issue is my husband prefers I change the pen out after 30-40 days because he doesn't trust the efficacy with all the issues we have had. So we'll see what happens.
We are very fortunate because I have pet insurance on Gracie which I got when she was a baby so they cover her FD and pay in full for the insulin. Not that I like wasting it...I don't ....but at least I'm not nailbite_smile nailbite_smile nailbite_smile over the cost of the insulin if I have to redraw.
Hoping things improve for Chip.
Dale 'n' Chip
Member Since 2012
Finally Pumbaa was a good influence. Now let's try green. :mrgreen:
Can't believe it took twice the dose on the new pen. :?
Can't believe it took twice the dose on the new pen. :?
Pumbaa
Member Since 2012
We can keep each other awake at night when they both start dropping. *LOL* But hopefully Chip won't be diving (or bouncing) anymore!
It might have taken twice the dose to get the first blue with the new pen, but I'm praying that he doesn't flatten out and you keep getting better and better numbers and action!
It might have taken twice the dose to get the first blue with the new pen, but I'm praying that he doesn't flatten out and you keep getting better and better numbers and action!
Pumbaa
Member Since 2012
Chippendale's:
Holy crap! Max hit green!!!!! Whooohooooooo!!!!!!
Does this ever make me happy!!!! I'm sure you are elated as well!!!!!!!!
When are you going to start a new condo and use :mrgreen: as the topic icon????
Unless anyone else can argue this point, I am now pretty dang sure that the old pen had lost some of its potency, because you didn't get numbers like this at the 2.0U dose on the old pen.
I am praying that Chip doesn't bounce too high after this. I pray that you have seen your last pink/red/black numbers!
I'm doing a happy dance right now!!!!
Suze
Holy crap! Max hit green!!!!! Whooohooooooo!!!!!!
Does this ever make me happy!!!! I'm sure you are elated as well!!!!!!!!
When are you going to start a new condo and use :mrgreen: as the topic icon????
Unless anyone else can argue this point, I am now pretty dang sure that the old pen had lost some of its potency, because you didn't get numbers like this at the 2.0U dose on the old pen.
I am praying that Chip doesn't bounce too high after this. I pray that you have seen your last pink/red/black numbers!
I'm doing a happy dance right now!!!!
Suze
Dale 'n' Chip
Member Since 2012
That's exactly what I was thinking. I already did 2.0 per the protocol for 6 cycles and got almost nothing with the old pen. And now this with the new pen? dancing_catPumbaa said:
However I got more with 1.0 on the old pen. Who knows. But it's probably not worth messing with the old pen again.
I'm sure this will have to make him bounce. But look how flat that was, almost a whole cycle blue. He may earn his reduction soon depending on the bounce.
Sheila & Beau GA & Jeddie GA
Member Since 2009
Wow, excellent day today!
Don't be in too big a hurry to reduce - look/wait for at least a 50, or a low PS you are uncomfortable shooting 2u on. Looks like he had a little bounce yesterday from the first blues in a long while, but not today - or at least it is not bouncing as high (anti jinx).
I don't think he actually got better numbers on 1u on the old pen. You held that dose longer than you did this time, but they are both pinks and yellow.
Don't be in too big a hurry to reduce - look/wait for at least a 50, or a low PS you are uncomfortable shooting 2u on. Looks like he had a little bounce yesterday from the first blues in a long while, but not today - or at least it is not bouncing as high (anti jinx).
I don't think he actually got better numbers on 1u on the old pen. You held that dose longer than you did this time, but they are both pinks and yellow.
Pumbaa
Member Since 2012
Look at that blue PMPS!!!! I need to go make some popcorn, 'cause the Chippendale's show just got exciting. nailbite_smile *LOL*
That 185 during the old pen was 16 cycles into your switch to Levemir, so I wouldn't think it was in any way caused by the old Lantus in Chip's system. 185 + 20% (for meter accuracy) is 222, which was much more in line with Chip's numbers right then. Actually, 222 was his next AMPS reading. So maybe that 185 was a fluke reading due to meter accuracy, giving you false hope?
In any case, the numbers you are getting now are too consistent to be flukes. And I concur to never go back and use that original pen again. Mark that one -86-.
If Chip does bounce, hopefully it will only be to the low yellows at the most.
Looking forward to you now having sleepless nights as Chip keeps dropping! Is the race still on...with Pumbaa and Chip going OTJ? *LOL* I totally forgot about that until just now.
Suze
That 185 during the old pen was 16 cycles into your switch to Levemir, so I wouldn't think it was in any way caused by the old Lantus in Chip's system. 185 + 20% (for meter accuracy) is 222, which was much more in line with Chip's numbers right then. Actually, 222 was his next AMPS reading. So maybe that 185 was a fluke reading due to meter accuracy, giving you false hope?
In any case, the numbers you are getting now are too consistent to be flukes. And I concur to never go back and use that original pen again. Mark that one -86-.
If Chip does bounce, hopefully it will only be to the low yellows at the most.
Looking forward to you now having sleepless nights as Chip keeps dropping! Is the race still on...with Pumbaa and Chip going OTJ? *LOL* I totally forgot about that until just now.
Suze
- Status