? Ches the red - electrolytes / bowels

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AJay

AJay

Member Since 2017
Couple of questions in the long saga of Chester. Thank you for your patience :)

Last night he chomped into some high carb food - not ideal, but at least he kept it down / in. Any that did come out in loose faeces wasn't proportional to what went in..

I monitored him thru the night.

However I haven't seen him do much in the trays since - or drink much.

Twice now I've given him potassium supplement and he's rejected / thrown up.

He's still on fluids, tho hydration seems to be holding this morning.

Are there any electrolytes I can give him / advisable? He's quiet but he's had a scratch on a log outside. I thought he might b a bit bored / depressed inside. He's perked up since being out.

Ideas? xx
 
It's good that he's interested in being outdoors. Any food he keeps down is the right food for now. Small positive signs. I don't know enough about potassium supplementation to offer advice.
 
Sorry this has taken so long - A young man needed some persuasion to come back in from his walk. In that time he has had a wee and bowel movement. Both of which he dug a hole for and buried after - something he hasn't been doing. :) His faeces were loose, but had a bit of form to them.

Ive been chatting to Linda @MrWorfMen's Mom about Ches's numbers as they were a bit bouncy once we adjusted the dose and I found something he would eat. The problem was it was high carb :( But he ate it and it stayed inside him instead of making a quick exit without touching the sides as everything else has been :rolleyes::oops:

I still don't have my spreadsheet working / synching with my pc and really haven't had the time or brainspace to tackle it :(

PMPS 14.4 2.75u
+2. 20.2
+3. 9.3 (2 teaspoons of Royal Canin Digest given (19% :( )
+4. 17.2
+7. 16.0
AMPS 24.0 (3/4 pouch of Applaws (pumpkin low carb) 2.75u
+2. 13.8
+4. 13.3 Fluid and Applaws
 
Overall his BGs are lower in range and that's good. You've found food he'll eat and will stay in - that's good too. He wants to be outdoors - also good. The list of small steps forward is getting longer. Carbs in food - not an issue right now. You can dose around that. Encouraging signs. :)
 
Hugs and more prayers to you and beautiful Chester , Ajay :). Things are going in the right direction , just focus on these successes :) :bighug::bighug::bighug:
 
I'm so glad to hear that Chester is doing better! Sounds like he's really taking an interest in life, and that's a HUGE positive step!

What potassium supplements have you tried? THIS is the one I use, I just sprinkle the little scoopful onto Squallie's food and mix it in, he doesn't even know it's there. It also comes in a gel form, but I'm not sure you can get it in the UK. He liked the gel just fine, too, but it was expensive and had some sugars in it, so we get the powder.
 
What did he have food wise today? Is he still eating well and keeping it down and in the other end? Is AJay sure she didn't give a furshot. It happens and that poor woman must be absolutely pooped! If she can check ketones, that would be my first concern. With numbers like that I think we should consider another shot at no later than 8 hours. Maybe even 6 if AJay can monitor. Man I wish we were closer so we could help her out!
 
MrWorfMen's Mom said:
What did he have food wise today? Is he still eating well and keeping it down and in the other end? Is AJay sure she didn't give a furshot. It happens and that poor woman must be absolutely pooped! If she can check ketones, that would be my first concern. With numbers like that I think we should consider another shot at no later than 8 hours. Maybe even 6 if AJay can monitor. Man I wish we were closer so we could help her out!
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He's had some applaws. He got into dried animal treats (guessing high salt) aboutm2.5 hours ago. probably ate those. He's still eating ok. She isn't sure about the fs but doesn't think it was one. I've also said about keytones asap. I will let her know about that shot time - panicking here with me right now so couldn't post.
 
Ok if he got into some dried animal treats are they freeze dried protein or something more carb loaded? Sorry for all the questions but want to make sure we keep all factors in mind. If they were high carb, that could account f0r the BG. The Applaws is low carb so that is not an issue at all and I am so glad he is eating OK. How about his other activities? Lethargic more now than earlier. He seemed quite spunky earlier today. Has that changed at all?
 
MrWorfMen's Mom said:
Ok if he got into some dried animal treats are they freeze dried protein or something more carb loaded? Sorry for all the questions but want to make sure we keep all factors in mind. If they were high carb, that could account f0r the BG. The Applaws is low carb so that is not an issue at all and I am so glad he is eating OK. How about his other activities? Lethargic more now than earlier. He seemed quite spunky earlier today. Has that changed at all?
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They are dog treats- ? He's now more lethargic and grumpy

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95% meat suggests there is something else in there and that might be the culprit. I'm of the opinion that another shot before 12 hours (possibly 6 to 8 hours) should be considered unless his numbers come back down between now and then. We need to get his BG under control to keep ketones out of the picture. Try to test for ketones and get another BG at +4 and see if he is still rising or dropping off. When did he get into the contraband or does AJay know? They can be sneaky!
 
MrWorfMen's Mom said:
95% meat suggests there is something else in there and that might be the culprit. I'm of the opinion that another shot before 12 hours (possibly 6 to 8 hours) should be considered unless his numbers come back down between now and then. We need to get his BG under control to keep ketones out of the picture. Try to test for ketones and get another BG at +4 and see if he is still rising or dropping off. When did he get into the contraband or does AJay know? They can be sneaky!
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About 2-3 hours ago he may have gotten them. She thinks and I think 6 hours would be better. I'm concerned about keytones too. Test again in 25 mins.
 
DAH! Just looked at back of treat label. Not high carb from what I can see.:( Ok I think we need to take a bit of an aggressive approach with this guy. Ok so 6 hours post shot would be early but if he's that high, I think it's worth giving insulin early to get his numbers down. Hopefully someone else will chime in before then so we can get a consensus of opinion. In the meantime if possible, a test for ketones is my main concern right now but we all know kitties don't pee on demand like the droolers and catching them in the Litter box can be a bit of a hit or miss proposition! I can only imagine the state AJay must be in. Send her my hugs please!:bighug::bighug::bighug:
 
MrWorfMen's Mom said:
DAH! Just looked at back of treat label. Not high carb from what I can see.:( Ok I think we need to take a bit of an aggressive approach with this guy. Ok so 6 hours post shot would be early but if he's that high, I think it's worth giving insulin early to get his numbers down. Hopefully someone else will chime in before then so we can get a consensus of opinion. In the meantime if possible, a test for ketones is my main concern right now but we all know kitties don't pee on demand like the droolers and catching them in the Litter box can be a bit of a hit or miss proposition! I can only imagine the state AJay must be in. Send her my hugs please!:bighug::bighug::bighug:
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Yeah but could still be full of something nasty. I will pass those on for you :)
 
Does AJay have any idea how much of the treats Chester consumed? If he ate a heaping amount, perhaps that would have put the BG up. I may be grabbing at straws but hope reigns eternal! :)
 
Yes Kris we are just approaching +4. I was thinking about shooting at +6 if numbers allow which it looks like they will and if AJay if up for it. Thoughts? So glad you are here. This is unconventional and we really need a consensus of opinion! You've dealt with DKA whereas I have not (thank goodness!).
 
Ok he's dropped but not much 27.1 (sorry a lot going on with this so couldn't update as fast as I'd have liked)
 
MrWorfMen's Mom said:
Does AJay have any idea how much of the treats Chester consumed? If he ate a heaping amount, perhaps that would have put the BG up. I may be grabbing at straws but hope reigns eternal! :)
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Well there was a partner in crime involved so half the 60g bag was gone. So at most 30g
 
MrWorfMen's Mom said:
Yes Kris we are just approaching +4. I was thinking about shooting at +6 if numbers allow which it looks like they will and if AJay if up for it. Thoughts? So glad you are here. This is unconventional and we really need a consensus of opinion! You've dealt with DKA whereas I have not (thank goodness!).
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Now - what dose to give seeing as there'll be a little of the earlier 2.75 u on board still? Here's a starting point: at 2 doses in 24 hours of 2.75 u each, the total amount of insulin would be 5.5 u. If shooting at 6 hour intervals, that's 4 doses in 24 hours. Taking the 24 hour amount of 5.5 u and dividing by 4 intervals of 6 hours, that 1.375 u per dose. Maybe give 1.25 u at +6?

Monitoring needed of course.
 
Seconding the YEAH! for no ketones! I'm game for another dose of 1.25u at +6 and monitoring but I am concerned about AJay. I think she got a little rest this afternoon but that would not be enough to replenish what she has lost. If we dose at +6 now, I guess the numbers are going to dictate when to shoot the next dose!? Need to keep AJay on some kind of a workable schedule because she is key to all of this.

ETA another hurray to no ketones! :D
 
Retesting in 15 minutes,

So she will be shooting every 6 hours then from now on or just for tonight/tomorrow?

I do think it was the contraband that caused this
 
TempestsMum said:
Retesting in 15 minutes,

So she will be shooting every 6 hours then from now on or just for tonight/tomorrow?

I do think it was the contraband that caused this
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I think the every 6 hours will be a short term thing and can be assessed cycle to cycle. Ajay's sanity would be taxed to its limits if this was a longer term thing.
 
I agree with Kris. I think we have to play this by ear right now! We'll get AJay and Chester back of a normal schedule ASAP. Waiting for the next reading and then going to make some dinner to keep me going!
 
He's seeing a different vet on Friday for bloods and check up. They are coming to the house.
 
Just another opinion.....with the HC treat possibility, I'm not sure I'd be comfortable suggesting shooting every 6 hours

Chester's numbers aren't that high and if the treats are involved, that's enough to spike the BG

Shooting every 6 (or even every 8 hours) is really hard on the caretaker and with him getting into yellows lately, I think I'd just stick with the every 12 hour schedule and monitor closely for ketones
 
Chris & China said:
Just another opinion.....with the HC treat possibility, I'm not sure I'd be comfortable suggesting shooting every 6 hours

Chester's numbers aren't that high and if the treats are involved, that's enough to spike the BG

Shooting every 6 (or even every 8 hours) is really hard on the caretaker and with him getting into yellows lately, I think I'd just stick with the every 12 hour schedule and monitor closely for ketones
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Good point, Chris. It's hard to know what to do in the immediate cycle or two ahead because he's been sky high and wouldn't come down at the vet clinic. I'm not sure his body can tolerate high-ish BGs right now. This is a tricky situation.
 
I think given his BG seems to be coming down, we have found our culprit and with ketones at negative, I agree with Chris that keeping to a more doable schedule is probably best. We have to keep both Chester and AJay is mind here. Let's see where he is at +8 and then decide but for now no shot at +6.
 
I think best to wait this out till +8. Shooting then while not ideal is still a more workable schedule and will help to keep his numbers down. I hate to say it but I have to wonder if when he is eating better etc. the Vetsulin just isn't lasting long enough. We also have the option of upping the dose but then monitoring is still going to be an issue as we don't want him dropping too much.
 
@Kris & Teasel what do you think about upping Chester to 3.0u if AJay is up for monitoring again. This guy is all over the map right now although I still think the dog treats are the culprit but we need to get his numbers down. I've sent AJay a PM asking her to test at 10:30 our time. Will you be around then?
 
MrWorfMen's Mom said:
@Kris & Teasel what do you think about upping Chester to 3.0u if AJay is up for monitoring again. This guy is all over the map right now although I still think the dog treats are the culprit but we need to get his numbers down. I've sent AJay a PM asking her to test at 10:30 our time. Will you be around then?
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I think that's reasonable, Linda. Is the plan still to give insulin at +8? Yes, I'll be around at 10:30 PM our time.
 
I'm thinking yes to the +8 if AJay is up for it but I'd like some consensus from others with some DKA experience. I also wonder if he is still bouncing a little from that 9.3 yesterday....he hasn't seen numbers that low since they joined. Let's see what Chester does at +8 and then make a decision about dose. Thx.
 
I also think it would be in Chester's best interest to either go back to ProZinc, or try Lantus/Levemir

The Caninsulin isn't the best insulin for most cats and it sure doesn't seem to be doing him any favors.

If a basal insulin like ProZinc, Lantus, Levemir aren't doing what we need them to do, we can always discuss using R (with lots of help from those that have lots of experience with using it)
 
@Kris & Teasel @Chris & China Chester's BG at +7.5 is 29.4 so my thoughts are to stick with the 2.75u and shoot at +8 and then get him back on 12 hr. schedule tomorrow/Thursday. He did eat a bit about 45 minutes ago so that reading is a bit food influenced and thus I don't think increasing at this point is prudent. Your thoughts?
 
MrWorfMen's Mom said:
@Kris & Teasel @Chris & China Chester's BG at +7.5 is 29.4 so my thoughts are to stick with the 2.75u and shoot at +8 and then get him back on 12 hr. schedule tomorrow/Thursday. He did eat a bit about 45 minutes ago so that reading is a bit food influenced and thus I don't think increasing at this point is prudent. Your thoughts?
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Chances are at +8 there's a little of the earlier dose still in him so 2.75 u should be OK.
 
Chris & China said:
I also think it would be in Chester's best interest to either go back to ProZinc, or try Lantus/Levemir

The Caninsulin isn't the best insulin for most cats and it sure doesn't seem to be doing him any favors.

If a basal insulin like ProZinc, Lantus, Levemir aren't doing what we need them to do, we can always discuss using R (with lots of help from those that have lots of experience with using it)
R?

[QUOTE="@Kris & Teasel @Chris & China Chester's BG at +7.5 is 29.4 so my thoughts are to stick with the 2.75u and shoot at +8 and then get him back on 13 hr. schedule tomorrow/Thursday. He did eat a bit about 45 minutes ago so that reading is a bit food influenced and thus I don't think increasing at this point is prudent. Your thoughts?
I suppose on a good note, its not gone up any... Just given more fluids by mouth. He looks so miserable :(
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R insulin is a fast acting short duration insulin that can be used in very tiny doses at strategic times within a cycle to pull Bg numbers down more strongly. This is in addition to the regular, or basal, insulin.
 
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