Changing wet food to a lower carb - What to expect for BG's? - acro cat/IBS/hypoallergenic diet

FonzieFremeau

FonzieFremeau

Member Since 2024
Hi All,

Fonzie has been on Royal Canin Select Protein PR (rabbit) canned wet since September of last year. There is currently a shortage and I am unable to source this flavor. He has IBS/pancreatitis and our vet recommended single source proteins like Rabbit and Duck as more gentle options. He has done very well on the Rabbit and no flare ups. Albeit I did calculate the carbs at 14% on a dry matter basis, so not ideal, but he eats heartily and is maintaining weight and decent BG numbers. I would like to stick with Rabbit as a protein source if possible.

I have been looking into KOHA (limited ingredient diet pate) Rabbit recipe, and the carbs are significantly less (3.9%) and it is a single source protein -- just what we are looking for. Our vet does not have any objections but wants us to introduce slowly. Problem is, I only have 6 days' worth of the Royal Canin left, so the transition will have to go a little faster over the next week.

I have read about changing foods and how changing from dry to wet can drastically shift the BG's, however, Fonzie is already on wet, just transitioning to a different wet. Pretty big carb decrease of 10%.

Any recommendations on how to make sure he does not have a low glucose event?

He is currently on 2 units of Lantus in the AM and 1 in the PM but his Nadir has been slowly getting later and later in the day. Last evening we did not give him insulin as he was at 150 an hour past his PM shot. We follow the "no shoot" under 200 rule.

He has acromegaly and treated with SRT in Oct 2024, so we are still seeing changes in the dosage.
 
If you have 6 days of PR left, you'll want to start low and increase the amount every day. Try starting with 10% Koha, next day 20%, adding 10% more each day. On day 10 you be transitioned and that should be slow enough for his tummy. There are quite a few other low carb rabbit options if he doesn't like the Koha.

With the dosing methods we use here, we recommend using the same dose AM and PM, due to the depot style nature of Lantus. If you shoot higher in the AM, you'll get lower preshots, meaning you might have to skip like you did last night. Then he ends up sky high in the AM, which can lead to fast drops during the day. How about trying 1.5 units AM and PM so you can shoot the same dose and it'll be more likely he'll always get a shot.

We don't have a no shoot under 200 rule except for very new people. Here is gets gradually lowered. Lantus is great at keep cycles with lower preshots low and flat. Some time when you can monitor, try lowering that no shoot to 150. People here following our more conservative dosing method even shoot as low as 90. I followed TR and could shoot as low as 50, though only got the change to shoot 51's. :)

FonzieFremeau said:
Any recommendations on how to make sure he does not have a low glucose event?
Click to expand...
Transition slowly and test. Switch to more consistent dosing so you aren't shooting 2.0 units any more.
 
Wendy&Neko said:
If you have 6 days of PR left, you'll want to start low and increase the amount every day. Try starting with 10% Koha, next day 20%, adding 10% more each day. On day 10 you be transitioned and that should be slow enough for his tummy. There are quite a few other low carb rabbit options if he doesn't like the Koha.

With the dosing methods we use here, we recommend using the same dose AM and PM, due to the depot style nature of Lantus. If you shoot higher in the AM, you'll get lower preshots, meaning you might have to skip like you did last night. Then he ends up sky high in the AM, which can lead to fast drops during the day. How about trying 1.5 units AM and PM so you can shoot the same dose and it'll be more likely he'll always get a shot.

We don't have a no shoot under 200 rule except for very new people. Here is gets gradually lowered. Lantus is great at keep cycles with lower preshots low and flat. Some time when you can monitor, try lowering that no shoot to 150. People here following our more conservative dosing method even shoot as low as 90. I followed TR and could shoot as low as 50, though only got the change to shoot 51's. :)


Transition slowly and test. Switch to more consistent dosing so you aren't shooting 2.0 units any more.
Click to expand...

@Wendy&Neko Thank you. I appreciate your insight and suggestions. I plan to reduce his dose tomorrow for AM shot to 1.5 and we will go from there. I plan to follow the slow integration plan for the new food as well. I appreciate the quick response!
 
Hello. I don’t want to be a wet blanket, but, regarding the Koha rabbit, I have concerns. A month or two ago, I had a discussion on another group I am a member of (for FIV+ cats) about my cat with IBD. We were discussing food options. I was cautioned by another member (a reliable, intelligent person who is quite well-read on feline matters) about the Koha rabbit food and the phosphorus content doing serious kidney damage. Her own cat had an acute kidney injury while eating this food. I am not saying not to use this new food. I only recommend that you should monitor phosphorous in your cat by getting bloodwork done maybe 2-4 weeks after starting the food. I understand the difficulty in finding foods that suit our IBD kitties. I am still struggling with that. Here is a copy and paste I did from what she told me about her experience with the Koha Rabbit.
Quote:
“KOHA's Rabbit Au Jus LID food [now Rabbit Pate] had for a time been found to have 3.7% phosphorus on a dry matter basis. I know that at least one cat suffered a kidney injury from this (my kitty, but he had early stage 1 to begin with). You can only find shadows of the issue mentioned anywhere now but at one point they had a memo on their website which is how I learned about it in early 2023. The memo has since been taken down I think. They rebooted the food in 2021 with a new formula but the batch I got was older. My cat's kidney injury and rapid recovery was a mystery until we found the memo.
I could only spread rumors in speculation of why this happened at KOHA but rabbit is very high in phosphorus and I know that their nutritional philosophy used to be to include the bone for the calcium source as well which of course is also very high phosphorus. I recall that the batch we got did have bone fragments in it.”
END QUOTE
 
I also read reviews of the food on my own and found people reporting bone fragments in the food. A lot of bone will definitely mean high phosphorus.
 
There are a lot of rabbit options out there besides Koha. My IBD kitty who can eat rabbit, won't eat the Koha because of the green lipped mussels - also allergic to fish/seafood.
 
Thank you, @Suzanne & Darcy & @Wendy&Neko. Do either of you have any suggestions for low phosphorus Rabbit food that is also low in carbs? Koha does have transparency on their website regarding percentages on a "dry matter" basis. See below.

I also was researching the following brands:

1. INSTINCT - Minced real rabbit
2. LOTUS - Rabbit Pate - Grain Free
3. MERRICK - Backcountry Grain Free Rabbit
4. I and Love and You Whasically Whabbit Pate

Thoughts or suggestions are welcome.

I have reached out to the above companies requesting their phosphorus levels in these foods on a "dry matter" basis, as well as carb levels.


from KOHA's website:
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This is a good web page for phosphorus DMB https://felinecrf.org/canned_food_usa.htm. Merrick Back Country was medium carb (12%) at the time of writing of this document: https://catinfo.org/docs/CatFoodProteinFatCarbPhosphorusChart.pdf Nature's Variety Instinct LID was 13%, I feed Nature's Variety Instinct Rabbit to my IBD girl, it has pork but she can do that to and it is LC.

Rabbit meat by itself is one of the higher phosphorus ones, so it's hard to get a really low P one. Does Fonzie also have kidney disease? If not, a little bit higher P might be OK if his blood work phosphorus is normal.
 
@Wendy&Neko, Thank you for the resources and recommendations. I checked Fonzie’s most recent blood work and the phosphorus levels were within normal levels. The nature’s variety Instinct rabbit that you feed your IBD girl, is that raw? Also, is it now just called “Instinct”, or is that a different brand? Just curious.
 
Wendy&Neko said:
This is a good web page for phosphorus DMB https://felinecrf.org/canned_food_usa.htm. Merrick Back Country was medium carb (12%) at the time of writing of this document: https://catinfo.org/docs/CatFoodProteinFatCarbPhosphorusChart.pdf Nature's Variety Instinct LID was 13%, I feed Nature's Variety Instinct Rabbit to my IBD girl, it has pork but she can do that to and it is LC.

Rabbit meat by itself is one of the higher phosphorus ones, so it's hard to get a really low P one. Does Fonzie also have kidney disease? If not, a little bit higher P might be OK if his blood work phosphorus is normal.
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Thanks, Wendy. I may look into the Nature’s Variety as well. Maybe my IBD boy will like it.
 
This is the canned rabbit I've been feeding. She also likes the Ultimate Protein version, but it's been really hard to source lately. I have in the past fed raw as well, both Stella & Chewy's and Primal rabbit. For some reason the weirdo likes Stella & Chewy's frozen raw but not freeze dried and Primal freeze dried but not frozen raw. :rolleyes:. Cats! IBD cats even more so. She also likes Hounds & Gatos rabbit but it's higher phosphorus and even harder for me to source. I tried Lotus and Identity rabbit too, with mixed success. Good for a couple cans worth, then went off it as soon as I bought more. :banghead: I've had a bit more consistent success with Rawz rabbit, as long as I don't feed it too often. Did I mention she likes variety too?
 
Wendy&Neko said:
Did I mention she likes variety too?
Click to expand...
Her job is to keep you on your toes! Cats! Thanks for the ideas.
FonzieFremeau said:
@Wendy&Neko, Thank you for the resources and recommendations. I checked Fonzie’s most recent blood work and the phosphorus levels were within normal levels. The nature’s variety Instinct rabbit that you feed your IBD girl, is that raw? Also, is it now just called “Instinct”, or is that a different brand? Just curious.
Click to expand...
Oh, about Phos levels. You want to keep them close to 4-4.5. I would not want to see much over 5.
 
Wendy&Neko said:
This is the canned rabbit I've been feeding. She also likes the Ultimate Protein version, but it's been really hard to source lately. I have in the past fed raw as well, both Stella & Chewy's and Primal rabbit. For some reason the weirdo likes Stella & Chewy's frozen raw but not freeze dried and Primal freeze dried but not frozen raw. :rolleyes:. Cats! IBD cats even more so. She also likes Hounds & Gatos rabbit but it's higher phosphorus and even harder for me to source. I tried Lotus and Identity rabbit too, with mixed success. Good for a couple cans worth, then went off it as soon as I bought more. :banghead: I've had a bit more consistent success with Rawz rabbit, as long as I don't feed it too often. Did I mention she likes variety too?
Click to expand...
@Wendy&Neko Thank you!! 13% carb rate? Does that sound right? For the instinct original canned? I’m still learning how to calculate.
Suzanne & Darcy said:
Her job is to keep you on your toes! Cats! Thanks for the ideas.

Oh, about Phos levels. You want to keep them close to 4-4.5. I would not want to see much over 5.
Click to expand...

Thank you!
 
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