Changing from Monoject to Terumos syringes?

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lovey11

Member Since 2013
Hi all,

I see a lot of nice and improved numbers for many of the cats as I was reading the posts. That's great.

I have some questions on Terumos syringes:


I have been using a 1/2 inch needle, but the Terumos are only 3/8 inches long. I don't want to give fur shots. Lovey's skin around the scruff is kind of thick. Is there anyway, I can practice with the needle. Is there something safe that I could put in it? Does anyone feel that 1/2 needles make fur shots less likely?


I know that ulti-care vet ( I think that is the name) now makes a 1/2 inch needle with 1/2 markings. Does anyone know if they are accurate?

Can I just move from monoject to Terumos? What is the dosage is more on the Terumos since the monjects are less accurate?

Any input would be helpful. thank you
 
I changed from Monoject to Terumos also, about a year or so ago, but I was already using the 5/16" short needles so the Terumo needles were actually a bit longer than I was used to. The Terumo needles will do just fine for you. The thing you need to know about Terumos is that there is usually a difficult little bubble to get out after pulling up your insulin. It takes persistence to get it out and tapping the barrel softly rather than flicking it seems to work better. It is possible to get the bubble out, it just takes a bit more time than usual. The Terumos are soooo much nicer to use than Monoject. The plunger is very smooth. Be very careful not to have your finger on the plunger until you're ready to inject because it is that easy to accidently push the plunger. I've never used Ulticare syringes so I can't give any info on that. I do know from experience that Surecomfort syringes should be TAKEN OFF THE MARKET. Their lines are so off, it should be a crime!!! Use the same dose with the Terumos that you use with the Monoject...just make sure you get your tests to see if he reacts to the same doses in the same way. Hope this helps!!
 
Hi Catherine,
The main problem with the Monojects is the "cone". Unless you have a perfect Monoject, it is possible that insulin will get into the cone, thus making your dose larger than you intended. This is illustrated in my sketch of a Monoject syringe:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/18Sy-_ED9Vi_119OVGEF71zZ0PM6op2R_07oz578xaWU/edit

I think you will be fine with the Terumos. Most people seem to think that the shorter needles are less prone to fur shots than the 1/2-inch needles. Marje's DH, Mike's, technique for getting out air bubbles in the Terumos works like a charm. Draw out a little more than your dose VERY SLOWLY. Then flick the side of the syringe so that the air bubble is centered under the base of the needle. Now--here is the crucial step--very quickly and deftly pull and push the plunger and the air bubble will be expelled. This takes a little practice, but it is easy once you get the hang of it. Now you can finish measuring your dose by gently twisting the plunger until you reach your dose. As with all syringes these days, the Terumos are not always accurate. Look at each syringe before you use it and see if the tip of the plunger is on the zero line. If it isn't you may have to compensate by "eyeballing" the dose. You can be really accurate only if you learn how to dose with digital calipers. See Marje's post on dosing with calipers:
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=79851&hilit=calipers

Hope this helps!

Ella & Rusty
 
Thank you so much Ella and Patty for your information. It was very helpful. Thanks for the removing bubble techniques. I have some trouble at times removing bubbles from the monojects.

Ella, I usually see insulin in the cone so Lovey might need more insulin with the Terumo syringe? I would start with the same dose thought.
 
Hi again, Catherine,
I think you should just start with the same dose you are doing now. If it turns out that Lovey needs a little more insulin using the Terumos, it will be apparent. You may need to do some trial and error before you find the equivalent dose. Keep good notes so that you know what you did. Be advised that the Terumo syringes have a skinnier barrel than the Monojects, and the dose lines are therefore further apart. It took me about a week to "translate" Monoject into Terumo! (And then it took some more trial and error while learning to use the calipers; but it was worth it, because now I know that my dose is completely consistent.)

Good luck!

Ella
 
these are the http://www.americandiabeteswholesale.com/product/terumo-thinpro-insulin-syringe_5891_112.htm Terumos that I used - i really liked them. I tried the Monojects and BD syringes as well, and had different needle lengths, but i didn't do anything special in changing over. i think you'll do ok - start with the same dose you're using on the Monojects and then adjust if you need to.

Probably the biggest difference is that the plunger moves so smoothly. you do have to be careful not to push before you mean to - but i also thought that was one of the best features. Some of the syringes you get them in and then it takes some pushing to get the plunger moving. these glide really nicely.

hope you like them!
 
You can take one of your old syringes, load your current dose with water , and then shoot into a terumo to see where the dose amount is. Then you'll actually see the difference from one to the other.

When I switched, I let myself be too hung up on the number markings on the syringe and inadvertently gave a dose reduction then I had to play catch up.
 
Thank you Ella, Patty, Julie, and Rhiannon for your help and information about the syringes.

Rhiannon, I will try the water. Thanks for the tip.
 
rhiannon, how do you shoot into another syringe? are you removing the plunger and shooting in where it was? this sounds like a great trick to know how to do.

btw, catherine, if you add some food coloring to that water it will help you see it better. or use flat colored pop, coffee or tea.
 
Hi Julie, I was going to ask the same question. I like the food coloring or soda idea. It will definitely make it easier to see. I think I may need to get my eyes checked. ;-)
 
I think I've used about every syringe out there now and I've found that I like the BD's best. I use calipers to dose so I don't even pay attention to the lines anymore. I do have a 'cheat sheet' with the caliper doses for different syringes since I DO change with whatever syringes I can find. If you feel uncertain, you might want to find some calipers to use instead. Here is the one that Marje bought for us:

Calipers-Harbor Freight

BIG HUGS!
 
Catherine, I quilt, which is mighty tiny work, and one of my quilting friends discovered you can "stack" reading glasses - the $10 kind you get at any store - to increase their magnification. it looks absolutely STUPID, but, hey, who is watching you while you're measuring insulin? Lovey? She won't mind! You might give it a try and see if it helps.
 
Ella & Rusty & Stu(GA) said:
Hi Catherine,
Marje's DH, Mike's, technique for getting out air bubbles in the Terumos works like a charm. Draw out a little more than your dose VERY SLOWLY. Then flick the side of the syringe so that the air bubble is centered under the base of the needle. Now--here is the crucial step--very quickly and deftly pull and push the plunger and the air bubble will be expelled. This takes a little practice, but it is easy once you get the hang of it. Now you can finish measuring your dose by gently twisting the plunger until you reach your dose.


Ella & Rusty
Click to expand...

Hi, Ella. This technique is not clear to John, who loads the syringe. He doesn't understand the critical step... I assume you have the syringe out of the vial. Then you draw in a little air an expel it? Not clear. Please help.
 
donaleen

Yes....we pull the plunger away from the needle QUICKLY to bring in a little air and then express quickly. The really important parts are getting the bubble centered right under the needle (which might take some gentle flicking) and then quickly pull in just a little air and expel...quickly. And by "a little" I mean just a little bigger than the bubble. It takes practice.

Catherine.....I did another post on the differences between Monojects vs Terumos but the search engine isn't working right now and I didn't bookmark it. I'll try again later; it might give you a little more info. But I think the most important info is in the Dosing with Calipers post that was linked already.
 
Thanks Marje for your tips. I will reread the bubble removing method and the caliper posts after some work related paper work.

It is taking me awhile to focus on my work, but I think I am in the groove now.
 
here's the link...
I have it bookmarked....

terumo vs monoject



and yes, I would pull the plunger out....
shoot the fake dose in and see where it lands just to know that I was roughly equivalent from one syringe to the next.
colored fluid is even better.

I had so many different magnification reading glasses back then.... and a jewelers set too.
It sucks to lose vision.... :roll:
 
Thanks so much for the link Rhiannon. This is important to understand if I change syringes. I will test with the dummy shot to get an idea if the difference is that large. Wow, .46 is really large discrepancy.


If I am giving 1.75 units, I may be really giving 2.25?
 
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