Our 18 lb cat was started on 2 units in April -- urine was negative, lowered dose to 1 unit, urine still negative -- very long story but the 3 vets still think she needs .5 even when her BG is 135 after no insulin for 24 hrs. I think she has a chronic rebound but don't know what to do???? HELP Please!!!
Cat was started on too high insulin-- trying to figure out
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Sue and Oliver (GA)
Member Since 2009
Re: Cat was started on too high insulin-- trying to figure o
We'd consider 135 a low number for a new diabetic to get insulin. Our general guideline is for new diabetics not to shoot under 200 until they have enough data that they can be confident of their cat's response. Generally, we say a cat is non diabetic if they range from 40-120 OFF INSULIN, with the majority of the time spent in double digits.
What kind of insulin are you using? With some insulins, you can "chase" the number, giving a shot when the number reaches your target number.
What is your vet's reasoning? What does he consider a normal diabetic number?
What food are you feeding? One way to try to lower blood glucose levels without insulin is to feed the lower range of low carb food.
We'd consider 135 a low number for a new diabetic to get insulin. Our general guideline is for new diabetics not to shoot under 200 until they have enough data that they can be confident of their cat's response. Generally, we say a cat is non diabetic if they range from 40-120 OFF INSULIN, with the majority of the time spent in double digits.
What kind of insulin are you using? With some insulins, you can "chase" the number, giving a shot when the number reaches your target number.
What is your vet's reasoning? What does he consider a normal diabetic number?
What food are you feeding? One way to try to lower blood glucose levels without insulin is to feed the lower range of low carb food.
Sue and Oliver (GA)
Member Since 2009
Re: Cat was started on too high insulin-- trying to figure o
We'd consider 135 a low number for a new diabetic to get insulin. Our general guideline is for new diabetics not to shoot under 200 until they have enough data that they can be confident of their cat's response. Generally, we say a cat is non diabetic if they range from 40-120 OFF INSULIN, with the majority of the time spent in double digits.
What kind of insulin are you using? With some insulins, you can "chase" the number, giving a shot when the number reaches your target number.
What is your vet's reasoning? What does he consider a normal diabetic number?
What food are you feeding? One way to try to lower blood glucose levels without insulin is to feed the lower range of low carb food.
We'd consider 135 a low number for a new diabetic to get insulin. Our general guideline is for new diabetics not to shoot under 200 until they have enough data that they can be confident of their cat's response. Generally, we say a cat is non diabetic if they range from 40-120 OFF INSULIN, with the majority of the time spent in double digits.
What kind of insulin are you using? With some insulins, you can "chase" the number, giving a shot when the number reaches your target number.
What is your vet's reasoning? What does he consider a normal diabetic number?
What food are you feeding? One way to try to lower blood glucose levels without insulin is to feed the lower range of low carb food.
Re: Cat was started on too high insulin-- trying to figure o
It's very complicated. They started her in April on 2 units at the same time as a food change. (She had been eating superhigh carb dry & some canned with gravy -- both bad. We adopted her in November when her 92 yr old owner died.) We had episodes of negative urine for 3 days at that level; reduced to 1 unit (PZI); had negative urine again. They didn't encourage home BG testing and we were clueless. Even on .5 units she had negative urine but BG at vet was sometimes 300s. She is very stressed going in the car to get there. Vet FINALLY ordered a glucometer for us and original home readings were still 300s -- she was stressed and so were we. She doesn't like to be held as her former owner was unable to pick her up. At internal medicine specialist on Thursday she was very stressed -- longer car ride and longer appt -- so the blood was 400. They told us to go back to .5 once a day, which we did Friday & Saturday. Saturday evening 12 hrs after last insulin BG was 272. Didn't test Sunday
. This morning before insulin was 135 (24 hrs after last insulin) -- so we didn't give any, fearing hypoglycemia if we did. Scared and confused. She urinates twice a day, about 12 hrs apart; drinks maybe a couple ounces (on all canned Fancy Feast classic chicken now). When her BG is around 150s, she has lower appetite, sleeps more, and when she was on .5 twice a day was also hiding. We are in Pittsburgh PA if anyone has a vet recommendation! This vet says give insulin if BG is above 100.
It's very complicated. They started her in April on 2 units at the same time as a food change. (She had been eating superhigh carb dry & some canned with gravy -- both bad. We adopted her in November when her 92 yr old owner died.) We had episodes of negative urine for 3 days at that level; reduced to 1 unit (PZI); had negative urine again. They didn't encourage home BG testing and we were clueless. Even on .5 units she had negative urine but BG at vet was sometimes 300s. She is very stressed going in the car to get there. Vet FINALLY ordered a glucometer for us and original home readings were still 300s -- she was stressed and so were we. She doesn't like to be held as her former owner was unable to pick her up. At internal medicine specialist on Thursday she was very stressed -- longer car ride and longer appt -- so the blood was 400. They told us to go back to .5 once a day, which we did Friday & Saturday. Saturday evening 12 hrs after last insulin BG was 272. Didn't test Sunday
. This morning before insulin was 135 (24 hrs after last insulin) -- so we didn't give any, fearing hypoglycemia if we did. Scared and confused. She urinates twice a day, about 12 hrs apart; drinks maybe a couple ounces (on all canned Fancy Feast classic chicken now). When her BG is around 150s, she has lower appetite, sleeps more, and when she was on .5 twice a day was also hiding. We are in Pittsburgh PA if anyone has a vet recommendation! This vet says give insulin if BG is above 100.
Sue and Oliver (GA)
Member Since 2009
Re: Cat was started on too high insulin-- trying to figure o
Bless s you for adopting and caring for her!
Here is our protocol for ProZinc. It may help.
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=109077
One thing I would do is to get midcycle numbers (5-7 hours after the shot) to see how low the insulin takes her. You don't want her dropping under 40-50. That may help guide your dosing or not. You can eyeball .25 (use a syringe with colored water, mark it where you think .25 is and use that as your guide syringe). We also have a way to do a drop if you'd want to try that. We also use U100 syringes with a conversion chart to dose smaller doses, but you may not have to bother with that if she doesn't need insulin long.
If she were mine, I wouldn't give insulin under 180 and then less than .5 until you get some data.
Bless s you for adopting and caring for her!
Here is our protocol for ProZinc. It may help.
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=109077
One thing I would do is to get midcycle numbers (5-7 hours after the shot) to see how low the insulin takes her. You don't want her dropping under 40-50. That may help guide your dosing or not. You can eyeball .25 (use a syringe with colored water, mark it where you think .25 is and use that as your guide syringe). We also have a way to do a drop if you'd want to try that. We also use U100 syringes with a conversion chart to dose smaller doses, but you may not have to bother with that if she doesn't need insulin long.
If she were mine, I wouldn't give insulin under 180 and then less than .5 until you get some data.
Lisa and Witn (GA)
Member Since 2009
Re: Cat was started on too high insulin-- trying to figure o
Has the vet checked for any infections or does she need her teeth cleaned? Those numbers are low for a diabetic cat. Yes they are higher than a non-diabetic cat, but that could be an indication there is an infection.
Has the vet checked for any infections or does she need her teeth cleaned? Those numbers are low for a diabetic cat. Yes they are higher than a non-diabetic cat, but that could be an indication there is an infection.
Re: Cat was started on too high insulin-- trying to figure o
Thank you for replies. The meter is iPet, which the vet insisted we get. We are trying to get additional readings today -- she isn't very cooperative. I think the suggestions of a different syringe and/or a teeth cleaning are both excellent.
Thank you for replies. The meter is iPet, which the vet insisted we get. We are trying to get additional readings today -- she isn't very cooperative. I think the suggestions of a different syringe and/or a teeth cleaning are both excellent.
Deb & Wink
Member Since 2013
Re: Cat was started on too high insulin-- trying to figure o
How are things going today?
If you find that the cost of the test strips are a budget buster for you, you may want to consider a human glucometer like the Relion Confirm or Relion Micro or Relion Prime all from Wal-mart. We have test ranges for human glucometers when used on our cats.
I see that you are feeding the Fancy Feast pates. Those are nice and low carb and very good for our diabetic kitties. Good job in getting your new kitty switched over from a high carb food to a low carb one.
How are things going today?
If you find that the cost of the test strips are a budget buster for you, you may want to consider a human glucometer like the Relion Confirm or Relion Micro or Relion Prime all from Wal-mart. We have test ranges for human glucometers when used on our cats.
I see that you are feeding the Fancy Feast pates. Those are nice and low carb and very good for our diabetic kitties. Good job in getting your new kitty switched over from a high carb food to a low carb one.
Re: Cat was started on too high insulin-- trying to figure o
Thank you. Ended up at emergency this a.m. Didn't eat full amt last nite, urine 3 times in 12 hrs (has been once every 12 hrs), only ate about half this a.m. Preshot BG on ipet meter was 425 at 6:30 a.m. 2 hrs later at vet was 460 (stressed of course). Yesterday played in afternoon and even this morning. We're told to test tonite and give .5 twice a day now. Also getting new bottle of pro zinc -- had this one almost 3 months and wondering If less effective. Still questioning if it could be chronic rebound. BG curve at vet scheduled for next Thursday. Sleeping most of today -- from stress of car ride and 2 hrs at vet? I just wish I knew what to do and could get advice from vets that makes sense.
Thank you. Ended up at emergency this a.m. Didn't eat full amt last nite, urine 3 times in 12 hrs (has been once every 12 hrs), only ate about half this a.m. Preshot BG on ipet meter was 425 at 6:30 a.m. 2 hrs later at vet was 460 (stressed of course). Yesterday played in afternoon and even this morning. We're told to test tonite and give .5 twice a day now. Also getting new bottle of pro zinc -- had this one almost 3 months and wondering If less effective. Still questioning if it could be chronic rebound. BG curve at vet scheduled for next Thursday. Sleeping most of today -- from stress of car ride and 2 hrs at vet? I just wish I knew what to do and could get advice from vets that makes sense.
Julia & Bandit (GA)
Member Since 2009
Re: Cat was started on too high insulin-- trying to figure o
Another question--is she overweight at all? Carrying around extra weight can cause BG to be higher than normal even if you can get the cat diet controlled. Bandit was averaging about 120-160 off insulin when he went into remission, and he was only a pound or two overweight. Once he got down to his ideal weight (which is about 11-12 lbs), he dropped right down into the 80-120 range without insulin.
Another question--is she overweight at all? Carrying around extra weight can cause BG to be higher than normal even if you can get the cat diet controlled. Bandit was averaging about 120-160 off insulin when he went into remission, and he was only a pound or two overweight. Once he got down to his ideal weight (which is about 11-12 lbs), he dropped right down into the 80-120 range without insulin.
Sue and Oliver (GA)
Member Since 2009
Re: Cat was started on too high insulin-- trying to figure o
Joan,
Can we help you get a spreadsheet set up? It is so easy to see patterns with the color coded spreadsheet that you miss when you are just listing numbers. We might be able to see where there was a bounce and if there was, how long it lasted.
Here are the directions:
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=18207
It's a little tricky so if you want help, just ask.
Joan,
Can we help you get a spreadsheet set up? It is so easy to see patterns with the color coded spreadsheet that you miss when you are just listing numbers. We might be able to see where there was a bounce and if there was, how long it lasted.
Here are the directions:
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=18207
It's a little tricky so if you want help, just ask.
Re: Cat was started on too high insulin-- trying to figure o
We took her for blood glucose curve at internal medicine specialist on Thursday. It looks like her insulin doesn't peak until about 10 hours. She also eats every 3 hrs or so -- was a dry food grazer for 7 yrs before we got her. Now eats FF canned chicken but never eats enough at one feeding. I need to get a copy of the actual curve from them. Thank you again.
We took her for blood glucose curve at internal medicine specialist on Thursday. It looks like her insulin doesn't peak until about 10 hours. She also eats every 3 hrs or so -- was a dry food grazer for 7 yrs before we got her. Now eats FF canned chicken but never eats enough at one feeding. I need to get a copy of the actual curve from them. Thank you again.
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