Cat recently diagnoised- insulin already started

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Mikaila31

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One of my family's cats, Oliver, was diagnosed with diabetes last Friday. We took him in, expecting one of the big 3, as he started peeing and drinking constantly. He is around 13 years old, an indoor/outdoor cat depending on the season. Has always been healthy apart from a few incidents and one cold that needed antibiotics. Generally he is an all around bomb proof cat. We run a daycare, he has been shot by some jerk, baths, car rides, ect phase him little or not at all. Well behaved cat that knows the rules. He is and always has seemed healthy and fit. Its hard to get him inside some nights during the summer. This recent diagnosis has left us really confused and with a LOT of reading it seems. Anyway from what little I have read I would like to get him off the insulin if this proves possible. Both my cats for their whole lives have been fed Science Diet regular and diet dry food mixed together. From what I have read and reviewed this food is pretty much expensive garbage, correct? :? The vet gave us Hill's prescription MD canned food and I am currently wondering if this is any good either. I am debating the raw food approach. I've read some stuff, but any links people KNOW are good would be great cuz as with everything on the internet there is lots of conflicting information. He was started on insulin on Saturday and has made an improvement. Two shots daily 3 units each. How expensive does a raw diet cost like monthly and how much time does it take to prepare the food?

Problems also come in pairs and this other one has actually been a problem for years. Our other cat is obese and has been for a long time. She is a sweet heart and all, but fat. Both our old and current vet simply say, "its overweight, you should try diet food." Her weight fluctuates, depending on if we maintain her dieting or not. She is between 16 and 18 pounds currently. It has never before been suggested that we change the brand of food... The fat cat, cally, does have eating issues. I don't think its the amount she eats its what we were feeding and how she eats. She like inhales her food. Occasionally when she throws up you will have whole kibbles not chewed up one bit... I am assuming the raw diet would probably help here with weight loss, correct? Apart from being overweight nothing else is wrong with her yet.

I keep, raise, and breed aquarium fish as a hobby and I understand all the issues of nutrition there. My fish, I hate to say, eat better then me. I guess its time to apply the same to the cats?

Not complete without pics of course. Its currently winter and both are kinda in-the-dumps since two feet of snow outside make is hard to go outside.

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Okay, the pictures are way too cute, I can't even concentrate now :lol:

Raw food is a great idea, I would dump the dry. As you mentioned with your Cally, when she vomits it up, it comes up whole. They don't chew the dry, at least mine didn't, so the stuff you hear about helping the teeth doesn't make sense, or didn't for me. Dr. Lisa Pierson's site is where'd I start. She also posts here occasionally as Lisa DVM, her site, catinfo.org

http://www.catinfo.org/

For now, I'd keep your cat indoors because you don't know what he'll get into outside and with insulin on board, if he were to hypo (go to too low) you may not know and that could be dangerous.

Hometesting your cat would be the best way to know how the insulin is working and whether that dose is too high. What insulin are you using, generally speaking 3U twice per day of any insulin to start with may be too high of a dose.
 
He has a checkup tomorrow morning so I can defiantly talk to the vet. Keeping him inside or simply keeping an eye on him outside will be easy enough in the winter. As I said there is 2 feet of snow out there and that doesn't count the stuff piled up from the sidewalks we cleared. He goes out, but is stuck to sidewalks and driveway whether he likes that or not. The only thing he can get into out there currently is the snow lol.

Summer is going to be a big issue though. We can't reliably keep this cat inside. He is well behaved, except for the "No Outside" command. He know EXACTLY what it means and will take his chances at punishment to sneak outside. He has always been allowed out, but we make sure he is inside at night and don't put up with the silly in/out routine. I fully understand all the issues and hazards outside has for a cat. I already mentioned he has been shot, specifically with a BB gun and still carries some of the metal in him. We kept him in for a month after this incident which was torture for us and him. Lots of people use this house since it is a business, lots of in and out on our part. In summer if he gets out and KNOWS he just disobeyed he won't be coming back for at least 4 hours or the entire night max. He is a ninja too. Half the time I won't even see him sneak out, but he usually trips the sensor on the closing garage door ohmygod_smile. We live in the woods and once he is out and its dark, really no chance on getting him back inside any time soon. I get why we would want him inside, its just going to be very difficult for us and him to achieve this. For example he is sleeping on rocks^, it looks as uncomfortable as !#@$. You have no idea how many times I have moved him from there to a bed inside only to find him sleeping on rocks again 15 minuets later. I don't want to know how many times I have been shouting this cats name at 2am either hoping to get him inside so I can sleep :roll:. Yeah he likes to catch and eat stuff out there. He had worms and that fun stuff. I get that with diabetes these outdoor meals are going to mess up his diet/eating routine. This is the main reason why I want him off the insulin and on a proper diet. I really want to find some way though not to mess with his outdoor life style too much come summer time, if this is at all possible.
 
I hope you don't think I was saying anything against letting your cat outside, that's completely your decision, I simply meant you don't know what he'll get into - meaning food.

I feed a group of feral cats and I know one that comes to my feeding station is owned by someone nearby, if his cat were not allowed to eat dry food or even the canned that I put out, the owner would not know his boy has been coming each morning and eating with my ferals.

Diet plays a key role in controlling blood sugar, and as mentioned if the blood sugar went to low and he hypo'd outside, things could get bad.
 
I think you might find it more helpful to be assertive, rather than defiant, with your vet. Assertive communicates you are listening and will decide if that is what you are able to do. Defiant may come across as putting down the vet; justified or not, it can thoroughly shut down communication. If you don't have a good alternative vet, it can be shooting yourself in the foot.

As far as the great outdoors - what about building a screened in "cat habitat"? Safe from cars and predators, yet outdoors. Might be a reasonable compromise.
 
My cat was on M/d too once he was diagnosed. He is OTJ now! (but I think it was mainly due to a diet change) In the past, my 4 cats have eaten diet Hill's food (light) and gained weight on that. They were on M/d once before and gained weight on that too. So since he was diagnosed and put on M/d again i was concerned because he needed to lose weight. I had to put down their portions and then take it up once everyone had been to the bowls twice so I could assume everyone at least got a good portion. Now that he is OTJ, I have put all of them on canned Fancy Feast Classic like the people on this board are using. They like it and they seem to be full while not gaining any more weight. I put down one can per cat in the morning and one can per cat in the evening. Everyone has slimmed down and they do not seem hungry until it is time to eat the next meal. My cats weigh about 12, 12, 14, and 19 now and do fine on 4 cans of Fancy Feast in the morning and 4 in the afternoon.
 
Hi and welcome to FDMB.

Yes, there is a lot to learn about feline diabetes and you have found one of the best places to learn it. We have all been where you are right now and will help you through the process.

While many cats can go off of insulin quickly, please realize that most cats will need insulin for the rest of their lives. But with insulin and the right diet, they will still have many happy years of life left.

You do not need to feed Oliver prescription diet food. Most of us feed our cats regular canned food like Fancy Feast or Friskies. Raw food is also a great option. There are several links on our Health Links page http://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewforum.php?f=14 with one of our favorites, Janet and Binky's food list under the Nutrition section http://binkyspage.tripod.com/canfood.html. These lists many of the brands of cat food with a nutritional breakdown. Try to select foods with less than 10 in the carbs column and a high number in the protein column.

What insulin is he on? 3 units is a high starting dose for any insulin. The dose should not be based on weight. We usually recommend starting at 1 unit twice a day and gradually raising it to find the optimal dose. We also recommend that you learn to hometest. This means checking your cat's glucose levels with a glucose meter before every shot. You can use any brand of human glucose meters including store brands. You do not need to use the "pet" glucose meters to do this.

One thing I must caution you about. As I said your starting dose is a high dose. That combined with a diet change to lower carbs, will significantly drop the glucose levels in your cat. Please be careful that Oliver does not become hypoglycemic. Please read the information on our hypo page http://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=15887 and keep it handy. That is another reason that we suggest hometesting. By testing before every shot you will know if it is safe to give insulin. For newbies, we suggest not giving insulin unless the BG reading is 200 or higher. Also, by hometesting you will be able to determine if Oliver is able to go OTJ (off the juice) and no longer needs insulin. Hopefully he will be one of the fortunate cats that is able to go OTJ. :mrgreen:

All of this is a learning process, but one that is easy to do. There is a lot of information on this site and we are here to answer any of your questions.
 
Well the vet visit went fine for the most part. It was really just taking blood and buying more canned food. Got some of the Hills and Purina stuff this time. We are giving him Lantus insulin. I did 2 units this morning before taking him in and vet said I could keep doing that and they will call with the blood results tomorrow. She seemed indifferent to the raw diet. Saying it could help or hinder and to make sure I am adding all the proper supplements necessary If I chose to go that route. Still a lot of reading up to do on everything :? I feel Oliver would take well to a raw diet, Cally would need quite a bit of coaxing. Thanks much for all the links so far, they are certainly helping. Major issue with raw diet is whole family needs to agree on it. I personally don't mind making the food(I'm in school as a biomajor). I know my mother doesn't like handling raw meat. I will hopefully be moving out in a year and could technically stop by weekly to make, portion, and freeze the food if need be. We all still need to agree on a diet though. Its either going to be raw or some type of canned food it seems. Will look into home testing glucose.

I understand exactly what you mean by how allowing him to run around outside can effect his glucose levels and diet, cuz yeah he likes to eat the furry critters out there and know where the wild catnip is. We are in the woods so him getting hand outs is extremely unlikely, he often runs if anyone he doesn't recognize approaches him off our property. He has run from me before at a distance, till I call him then he stops and looks all confused. He is a good hunter though so doesn't need handouts which is where the problem lies. I don't feel right with a outdoor screened in area. We would have to build that and it wouldn't satisfy him either. Sometimes I toss him on the deck if I don't want him running off too far cuz its getting late. He will stay there, but if I was ONLY to let him on the deck he would and has before jumped off the deck. He is the kinda kitty that would rather live outside 24/7 then inside this is where I find this most challenging as far as figuring out his diabetes. I want to try my best to get him regulated and stable before by Mid March which is when all the snow melts. He never really plays inside much for any extended lenght of time. He attacks you out of no where outside and runs around all crazy & up trees.

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The other important part of this puzzle is home testing. We really recommend that you start on a low dose and see how the insulin works in your kitty. Two units is a high dose especially if you are not testing at home. Dr. Lisa, who helps contribute her expertise to this site, describes giving insulin without testing like driving down the freeway with a bag over your head.

You do not need your vet's permission to test at home. You wouldn't just give your child 2 units of insulin twice a day without checking their blood sugar; we do the same with our 4 legged children. We have taught hundreds of people how to do it over the internet.

Here is a good beginning site: Newbie hometesting site and a video: Video for hometesting We all have little tricks that helped us. If you post your city and state, we might have someone who could help you in person.
 
Welcome! We've had a busy day with our numbers, so sorry I haven't stopped by to say hello sooner! My cat Willie got his diagnosis on the 7th of this month and we started him on insulin on the 8th. We've been hometesting and while it seems daunting at first, it quickly becomes an easy routine. A Relion meter and 100 strips will set you back

I've been feeding raw for a couple years and I think it really benefited both of my cats (one of whom passed on earlier this week). With the right choice in supplements, you can give your cats a nutritionally balanced meal, you can monitor ingredients, and honestly, there is just a great sense of satisfaction that comes with watching your kitties eat a meal that you have taken the time to prepare yourself. I find raw feeding to be much easier than I ever anticipated starting out, and it is also very cost effective. I keep a low carb canned food around as well (we have Wellness and Fancy Feast right now). Kitties on raw get what they need from much smaller amounts of nutritionally dense food, so you see much less waste coming out in the litter box, decreasing your litter costs as well.

The important thing is, you've come to the right place. The folks here have been nothing short of amazing and I trust them with willie's life (lately, quite literally!). They will steer you in the right direction!
 
Just a quick note to say your cats are lovely. My diabetic, Shiloh, is a beige tabby who was on Hill's Science diet when he was diagnosed at age 5. My cat, McKaela, a muted calico, passed a few months ago from cancer. I thought there was another cat with her name! But it must be YOU!! Welcome to the Board! Donna
 
Thanks for the warm welcome! ^_^

By Relion meter do you mean this or something different? - http://www.walmart.com/ip/RELION-CONFIR ... u=13863716

Its just all REALLY confusing ATM. I will figure it all out eventually but its like no diff then me telling you to go buy a aquarium filter. Majority would have no idea what works best, is reliable, and best suited for the particular situation. I've been reading a lot on diet, but have yet to even glance at home meters... I understand I need one, but don't want to end up with one that is unreliable and/or overpriced :? .
 
Mikaila31 said:
Thanks for the warm welcome! ^_^

By Relion meter do you mean this or something different? - http://www.walmart.com/ip/RELION-CONFIR ... u=13863716

Its just all REALLY confusing ATM. I will figure it all out eventually but its like no diff then me telling you to go buy a aquarium filter. Majority would have no idea what works best, is reliable, and best suited for the particular situation. I've been reading a lot on diet, but have yet to even glance at home meters... I understand I need one, but don't want to end up with one that is unreliable and/or overpriced :? .
Click to expand...

Walmart has three different Relion meters. You can use any of them. I have been using the Relion Ultima for years and have been very pleased with it.
 
No worries. Someone will always be around to answer any question. Just know, we all had the same questions at first, and someone answered them for us. :-D And we were all completely overwhelmed.

Here is a list of what you need for hometesting:

A human glucometer. Any one that sips and takes a tiny sample is fine. The meters are often free at drug stores; it’s the strips that are expensive. You can, however, buy them on ebay at less than half the price of stores. Lots of people here also like the ReliOn from Walmart. It is an inexpensive meter and its strips are the cheapest around.

Lancets and a lancet device. Usually, until the ears “learn” to bleed, a 25-26 gauge is good. Any brand will work.

Ketone strips. (Ketostix) Just like human diabetics use. You will sometimes need to test urine if the numbers are high.

Rice sack. Make this out of thinnish sock, filled with raw rice or oatmeal and then knotted. You heat this in the microwave until very warm but not hot. Then heat the ears before poking.

Also nice to have. Flashlight: so you can look at the ears and find the little capillaries that come off the vein running down the ear. Vaseline: Put a tiny smear where you want to poke. It will help the blood bead up.
 
okay I bought a relion confirm meter and a pack of 50 test strips this evening when I got off work. Tested kitty about an hour after eating a 1/4 can of food. Insulin shot is due in about 1 hour-90 minutes. 2 units still. Vet has NOT called back since visit on the 24th, probably due to the holiday. Oliver's first home test came back as 93mg/dL. Now I got to read some more to figure out what this reading means :? Oh IDK if it helps at all, but Oliver weighs between 12-13lBs.
 
93 is a good number, but pretty low for late in the cycle. We tell newbies not to shoot until the kitty is 200 or higher. The usual advice is to test at +12 and if it is 200 or lower, wait 30 minutes to see if it goes up. The insulin seems to be working really well. I would get in several more tests tonight and consider a lower dose when you do shoot next.

BTW, congrats on getting blood! Welcome to the Vampire Club! :mrgreen:

I will go over to the Lantus board and ask for specific advice for you. It is about time for you to post over there for dose advice, but they will want a spreadsheet because they are very numbers driven. If you need help getting the spreadsheet down, send me a pm. (See the button at the bottom of my post in the left hand corner.)
 
I'm fairly new and I unfortunately don't have the experience to know the answers, but I can ask a couple questions to give the more experienced folks some more info!

From your original post, it looks like you dropped your dosage from 3 units BID to 2 units BID. Can you pinpoint for us when you made the change, or did you do that from the get-go?

Also, have you made any diet changes yet? If so, when did you start those? Diet changes can have a big impact on BG levels, so that may be a factor as well.

Once you guys get settled into the home testing routine, you'll want to get a spreadsheet set up using the templates here on the site and get a link to it in your signature page. That way, when you're seeking help, the more experienced board members can instantly look at your spreadsheet and see where you've been up to that point. Plus, your vet can access it in real time (or you can print them out a copy and take it to appointments). And it's an easy record for you to look at and see where Oliver has been.

Sorry I'm not more help on the what to shoot front... I know it's your immediate question! I will be sending you a pm soon about raw diets. With the holiday weekend, I haven't had a chance!
 
Thanks for all the help ^_^.

Change from 2 to 3 was kinda random. I think family members were reading it differently. I defiantly took the 0 mark as 1 unit a few times. I didn't really want to do the 3 units after the first day, because he got pretty tired. He still seems kinda groggy and I'm wondering if its the insulin. Everyone has been doing 2units correctly since the 24th.

He was changed off science diet to the prescription diabetic food as soon as the vet verified our suspensions. We made a direct switch on the 17th or 18th I believe. He eats about 1 can a day. Vet said there was a noticeable weight gain after a week on the Hills stuff.

Starting to figure out the raw diet stuff. When I got the meter tonight I wrote down some of the prices on some the supplements I need at the store. I have a small 150g "jewelers" scale, I'm wondering if the weights on the meats when you buy them are good enough, or do I need a home scale? I don't believe we own a grinder... I'm still trying to figure if this is completely necessary.

Cally is going to have a rough time switching, but I think it would benefit her. I gave her a half of a sardine on top of some of her regular science diet kibbles and she threw it up within 5 minuets lol.
 
93 is a good number for right now. :smile: It will be important to figure out whether he is going this low all the time, and also whether he might be going lower than this sometimes.

At this point the best advice is to test again and see if he is going up or down, and how fast he is going up or down. The goal now is to start collecting data. Any test you can get is valuable, so test whenever you get a chance. Before each shot of course, then any other times that you are able. Once you have collected enough puzzle pieces (tests) we can start putting the puzzle together to see what is going on with Oliver.

Don't be surprised if your tests tonight are much higher. It is not unusual for cats to "bounce" up to higher numbers after their first trip into the lower numbers. Some cats don't bounce much at all, others bounce for months. Each cat is different, but in some cats those bounces can take up to 72 hours to clear, so don't be discouraged if he is high for a few days. Hopefully he won't be!
 
JUST tested again and at 70 now so he is dropping. No shot yet. Last insulin shot was 2 units about 13 hours ago. He is technically due for his next shot, But I am holding off for now since he is dropping and below 200, sound good?

edit: He's hungry so eating a 1/4 can now :smile: *noms*
 
Sounds good. You don't want to give any insulin until you know his numbers are going up, not down. And not below 200. He may still go lower, so continue to test.

BTW, this is good news. Oliver is responding well to the insulin.
 
okay so far from tonight we have the following:

1st test(6:15)- 93
8:15- 70(fed afterwards)
9:15- 75
10:30- 124

So he is going up now. Last test took lots of poking. He is eating a little bit right now cuz I didn't want it to end on a bad note.
 
So are you planning to skip the shot until the morning?

Don't be surprised if you get a high number in the am. It can be a bounce from the low number and/or the 24 hours between shots. I would shoot less insulin than your 2 units.

It would be great if you go over to the Lantus forum tomorrow before your shot and ask for advice on the dose. Have your numbers from today ready for them.

Great job testing! You probably avoided a hypo by not shooting the usual amount at the usual time.
 
So you say no shooting tonight? I was going to at like midnight... but I can wait if you think that is best. He is again tired, but IDK if thats winter or from the insulin. Was asleep when I got home and I keep waking him up everytime I do a test. What is this Lantus forum?
 
On the Board Index page there is a group called Insulin Support Group, and one of the subgroups is for Lantus users.

The general advice is not to shoot under 200. If you shoot at midnight, then your next shot will be at noon. It might work better to check with the group in the morning and then you can get back onto your original schedule. Lantus 'likes' a regular 12/12 schedule.
 
okay just woke up. He is eating about 1/2 can of food. He tested 95 about 10 minuets ago. I assume no shot again. Its been 24 hours since his last shot.
 
Wow. You are getting an interesting reaction from one shot. The fact that he is going up and down on his own is very encouraging.

Here is the Lantus forum: viewforum.php?f=9 Post over there, tell them you are a newbie and give them your numbers. It may be that he is just going to require a tiny dose of insulin and you do need guidance with that.
 
Glad you are posting over in Lantus. You are certainly a shining example of why it is important to hometest. If you want to pay it forward, come on and tell newbies your story. If you had given 2 units at 93 because it was the usual dose and you didn't know his bg levels, Oliver would have been in a very dangerous situation. Congrats on literally saving his life. :thumbup
 
Yes thanks very much for all the help. Oliver actually tested 65 this morning at 10:30 after eating. I was at work all day and came home just now. It was 73 about 10 minuets ago. So far so good, its staying nice and low without the insulin. Will be skipping the 3rd shot which is due in 1 hours. Been 35 hours no shots.
 
Wow - I wonder if the diet change made the difference or if - well, I don't even know what else to guess. He certainly is a lucky guy that you were testing.
 
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