cat pee ?need help or ideas

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dpl_hcm

dpl_hcm

Member Since 2016
hello

my 15 year old cat has been diagnosed with diabetes and is now on vetsulin.he has seemed to improve, but last night he had peed all over my shoes in the bedroom and this am peed right in front of me in the same spot. hes never been like this before except in the bathroom he'd pee on the towels so we keep him out of there.and I even cleaned the area with natures miracle and sprayed the no mark spray in the area and hed didn't even hesitate.vet claims its normal until he gets regulated but hes got clean boxes and clean litter everyday. should I put a box there?i cant just lock him to a small room and keep him confined and the bedroom is his favorite place to be.any ideas?

thanks

dennis
 
dpl_hcm said:
hello

my 15 year old cat has been diagnosed with diabetes and is now on vetsulin.he has seemed to improve, but last night he had peed all over my shoes in the bedroom and this am peed right in front of me in the same spot. hes never been like this before except in the bathroom he'd pee on the towels so we keep him out of there.and I even cleaned the area with natures miracle and sprayed the no mark spray in the area and hed didn't even hesitate.vet claims its normal until he gets regulated but hes got clean boxes and clean litter everyday. should I put a box there?i cant just lock him to a small room and keep him confined and the bedroom is his favorite place to be.any ideas?

thanks

dennis
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Hi Dennis!
Welcome:)
There are many reasons your kitty may be peeing out of the box--it is a bit more difficult to offer advice without some more information about your DX-
When was he DX? What is he eating? What dose of insulin are you giving? Are you home testing? Have you tested for ketones? A urinary tract infection?
It sounds like his diabetes is not controlled but I am not 1 of the experts so hold tight I am sure some will drop in with advice. Home testing and testing for ketones is VERY important ..... I cannot stress this enough-
If you could give some more background information and set up a spreadsheet it would help the experts give you a better handle on what is going on with your kitty:cat:
Changing you thread title to add the "?" will help get some more attention for the experts....:bighug:
 
he was diagnosed 3 weeks ago and hes on vetsulin and 1 in the am and 2 at night.i feed him wet food 80% of the time but the other stay on dry food and im sure he grazes on it when were not looking.
 
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dpl_hcm said:
he was diagnosed 3 weekes ago and hes on vetsulin and 1 in the am and 2 at night.i feed him wet food 80% of the time but the other stay on dry food and im sure he grazes on it when were not looking.
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Ok--I am doing to bump this up--what was his BG when DX?
Have you tested at home? If so please post your readings-
Is the wet food your feeding low carb?
Vetsulin is a "harsh " insulin... it is mostly used in dogs as cats have a faster metabolism ....
Because of this cats will often have a steep drop which is why testing is critical to avoid a hypo episode....
Bumping this for more experienced eyes--I will tag some people as well...
@Critter Mom
@manxcat419
@tiffmaxee
 
529 was his level. vet said for now just any canned food other then dry till we see how the numbers go. mon he has his follow up and they are sending urine out for a culture also.

tried just wet food at first and vet said no changes and then started vetsulin
 
Hi. Welcome. This behavior could be due to the high numbers. My sister had a diabetic cat that would pee on any towel or clothes left of the floor. She didn't test at home and I think her cat was not well controlled. My Tiffany never went outside the box until she had a UTI so that too could be a likely cause. How old is your cat? Does he have any other health issues?

If you aren't home testing I would get a meter today. If you live near a Walmart, lots of us use the Relion Confirm or Micro meters. They just need a small drop of blood. I'd get some lancets for alternative sites. We can help you with that but I won't write more because maybe you already are testing.
 
dpl_hcm said:
529 was his level. vet said for now just any canned food other then dry till we see how the numbers go. mon he has his follow up and they are sending urine out for a culture also.

tried just wet food at first and vet said no changes and then started vetsulin
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OK--
Most of us feed fancy feast classic variety as it is low carb-under 10% carbs is the standard // it is also cost friendly.
Some wet foods can be very high in carbs (mostly gravy cans) in any case wet is better than dry but to gain control you will want to get him on low carb.... if your others are going to remain on dry there are some low carb dry foods such as Young again 0 carb-it is high calorie and 0-5% carb and expensive. There are a few more as well-this way if he does nibble his number won't sky rocket.:eek:

you can find the nutritional data here ...
http://catinfo.org/docs/FoodChartPublic9-22-12.pdf

Bg levels are often higher at the vet due to stress.... we can help you learn to home test.
Many cats can go into remission...
Before food changes you MUST home test as they could lower glucose levels to a dangerous level.
 
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It seems that cats who have unregulated diabetes often have peeing issues, but there are many other factors that could be causing it, as well. The urine culture will help narrow it down.

Jayla is right, Vetsulin is a very harsh insulin. My cat was on Vetsulin for 9 months, so I am real familiar with it! It does indeed bring about steep, sudden drops in BG, and some people find it does not give a full 12-hour duration. My cat did reasonably well on it, but we just switched to Lantus and he is doing better with it. I wish now that I had switched sooner. Also, BG levels are almost always higher at the vet's office than they are at home, because kitty is stressed. You really need to be testing at home to ensure your cat's safety. There are pet-specific meters available, but they are quite pricey. Most of us here use a human meter for testing; the Relion meters from Walmart are very popular as they are affordable and easy to use.

Diabetic cats need to be on a diet of canned/frozen food that contains 10% or less of carbohydrates. I will include links to a sites that lists many popular, "OTC" cat foods and their nutritional values, including carbs, but I do so with this caveat: you MUST be home testing before trying to switch your cat from a high carb to a low carb diet!!! Lowering carb intake will also lower you cat's BG and in some cases it can drop into dangerous lows, causing hypoglycemia. You need to be home testing and monitoring closely to keep kitty safe! Hypos can kill! I am not trying to scare you, just make you aware that it can happen. :)

http://www.catinfo.org/docs/FoodChartPublic9-22-12.pdf
http://binkyspage.tripod.com/CanFoodNew.html

If you browse the forums here you will find some incredibly helpful tips and ideas. And always feel free to post any questions, everyone here is happy to help! :)
 
no tester, but ill bring it up to the vet on mon. fancy feast I thought I read somewhere was not good but I trust this forum and well try it.

no other known health issues.hes 15
 
dpl_hcm said:
no tester, but ill bring it up to the vet on mon. fancy feast I thought I read somewhere was not good but I trust this forum and well try it.

no other known health issues.hes 15
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15 is a kitten:cat::cat: I have a 16 and 17 year old:cat:

I want to "prepare" you that many vets do not advocate home testing.... I would like to encourage you to read as much as you can about the importance of home testing. Sadly we had a kitty just a few days ago who was sent home from the vet and even asked about home testing. The Dr said it was not necessary. I won't go into detail other than to say it was necessary:(

I know we sound like a broken record but just 1 more time
What @Squalliesmom said...:cat:
 
now should I put a litter box where he pees?he peed there this am with no shoes or clothes there?

added pic of him from my phone ill get a better one this eve

also my wife said earlier yesterday she sprayed nature miracle no mark in the area of the shoes and around other areas.could that actually have attracted him to the spot to pee? hes never peed there until after that
 
Mr Whiskers is quite the handsome fellow!:)

Is this an area where you don't mind having a litter box? I would probably go ahead and put one there, at least until you find out what's up and why he's peeing there. Is he still using his other box(es)?
 
Hi Dennis and Mr. Whiskers. Welcome to you both. :)

dpl_hcm said:
529 was his level. vet said for now just any canned food other then dry till we see how the numbers go. mon he has his follow up and they are sending urine out for a culture also.

tried just wet food at first and vet said no changes and then started vetsulin
Click to expand...

As the others above have already advised if Mr. Whiskers has dry food as part of his diet then for his current dose of insulin removing the dry could see his numbers drop significantly - and probably very quickly - leaving him at risk of the current dose being too high and taking him too low. Removing dry food can drop BG several hundred points and with harsh onset insulins like Vetsulin that can drop a cat into a hypo (even slightly above the nominal hypo threshold - as I know from being advised by a vet to hold the current dose when I wanted to reduce it during Saoirse's diet transition; it's the only time to date that she has had a symptomatic hypo).

Home testing is the way to keep Mr Whiskers safe if you are doing a diet changeover. It will also give you a great deal of information on how to help Mr Whiskers to become better regulated. If you can get a spreadsheet up and running to record Mr Whiskers' blood glucose readings it will help you to see how well/poorly he is responding to his current insulin. Spreadsheets also help us to make better suggestions for you to consider in order to improve Mr Whiskers' regulation.

WRT the peeing issue, when you're at the vets it might be an idea to get a blood panel done to check his kidney function, B12/folate and potassium levels.


Mogs
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Unregulated diabetics drink a lot and pee a lot. They sometimes need to pee NOW. They also are prone to urinary tract infections, so do take him in and have that checked. Peeing in front of you may be his way of letting you know he is sick.

Talk to your vet about a testing and a longer lasting insulin like Lantus or Levemir. But if you vet says you don't need to test, please understand that you don't need his permission.
 
uses other boxes all the time.kinda don't want one where hes peeing but better then soaked shoes or wet floor.

sure forward a spreadsheet and thanks everyone!!

so confused?remove him 100% from dry or let him have so his numbers don't bottom to low?if I read correct let him have some but main should be wet food
 
A couple things come to mind.

1. Do not stop the dry food until you are home testing. Stopping can sharply drop his glucose to dangerous levels.

2. Inappropriate box issues is a way for cats to tell you something is wrong. It could be his glucose is high or he has urine infection. Or could be behavioral such as box to small or has a lid, doesn't like to share it. It's a trial and error mystery. Smokey will not for any reason poop in a box. He's been this way for years. If he has wet in it, he won't use it again until it's been cleaned. And the box can not be near any wall.
 
He should be transitioned to 100% wet food but NOT UNTIL YOU ARE HOME TESTING!!! Any food transition needs to be done gradually, as well, to ensure no digestive upsets occur. Jayla and Maggie's Mom are right, too; for some unfathomable reason many vets do not advocate home testing, but you most assuredly do not need their permission to home test Mr. Whiskers. Think of it this way: if you had a young child who was diabetic, would you just blindly dose with the same amount without testing first to see that the amount was, in fact, safe to give? It's really no different with our kitties! :)
 
I think most of these have been covered already, but just to add another voice.

You will want to get him off the dry food completely, but you can't do that until you're home testing. If you take him off the dry food without testing his BG levels and keep giving him the same amount of insulin, it's entirely possible that he could drop very low. Many vets do not advocate home testing at all for a variety of reasons. The vet who diagnosed Rosa (who is actually one of the vets we really like where we take them) felt that it has the potential to damage the owner-pet relationship so doesn't advocate it even though she agrees that it is the safer thing to do (I asked her about it). The owner of the practice, who Rosa is with now following some mistakes from a third vet there, is perfectly happy that I home test and accepts that Rosa will let me do things like that where she will fight them on it.

The peeing could have a number of causes. It sounds as though you're already checking for an infection which is a good start. High numbers can definitely also cause them to pee outside the litter box. While Rosa's BG wasn't controlled, I had to be very careful to keep the box really clean (I was cleaning the box she prefers using at least twice a day because if that one isn't to her liking, she might or might not use one of the other ones in the house). When there is glucose in the urine, the urine gets sticky and they can end up with a lot of very sticky cat litter on their paws - Rosa didn't like that feeling at all so she avoided it by avoiding the litter. Even now, I have to be careful to keep the box very clean because her kidney issues mean that she pees a lot...and then doesn't like to get back into the same box because she might get her paws wet! Cats can be very picky about this sort of thing. Or it could be as straightforward as him either not being able to get to the box in time or that he's trying to let you know he doesn't feel great right now.
 
dpl_hcm said:
so confused?remove him 100% from dry or let him have so his numbers don't bottom to low?if I read correct let him have some but main should be wet food
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The ideal diet for a diabetic cat is 100% low carb, wet food. However, because Mr Whiskers is receiving insulin and eating some dry food as part of his diet if you were to change the carb load in his diet it may drop his blood glucose levels too low on his current dose of insulin (i.e. he needs the current level of carbs in order for the current dose not to take him too low). Once you are home testing you will be able to monitor Mr Whiskers' BG levels in real time. When you start the food transition you should gradually reduce the amount of dry food and replace it with an appropriate amount of wet, low carb food. Because you'll have immediate feedback on what's happening to his BG levels you will be able to intervene with carbs if he starts getting too low and you will be able to make reductions to the insulin dose as the transition progresses, thus keeping him safe. :)


Mogs
.
 
manxcat419 said:
When there is glucose in the urine, the urine gets sticky and they can end up with a lot of very sticky cat litter on their paws - Rosa didn't like that feeling at all so she avoided it by avoiding the litter.
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Very valuable and helpful observation, April. I had never thought of that before.


Mogs
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To be honest Mogs, a lot of cats probably just use the litter anyway. But Rosa can be a bit of a princess about anything like that - I'm guessing if she acts that way, other cats might too.
 
They might, April, but it's great to have new insights into any and all litter box behaviours cats may exhibit. Little gems of info like yours could be really helpful to other members whose cats are having toileting issues. As was commented on above, it can take a bit of detective work to determine the possible reason(s) behind the inappropriate elimination. :)


Mogs
.
 
thanks everyone!

just picked up another litter box and some clorox urine cleaner to try.it doesnt hurt along with the natures miracle.also bought a uv light to see if hes peeing elsewhere and how much.i hope not but should show up with the light.
now just gotta wait till mon and see what results are.and go from there.once what we have for wet food is gone and see mondays numbers ill try fancy feast and maybe grab a tester
 
No maybes; grab the test supplies. While you're shopping, get some urine test strips for monitoring ketones (e.g. Keto-diastix - should be available anywhere that sells supplies for diabetics).

Also double-check the carb content of the current wet food; if it's quite high then the same rules apply for testing and adjusting insulin dose throughout the transition (and possibly several days after, since numbers may continue to improve significantly).


Mogs
.
 
I just wanted to throw my voice in with the others--home testing is THE most important thing you can do to not only keep your cat safe, but also to get his blood sugar under control. Also, once you start home testing you no longer have to bring your cat into the vet for expensive and inaccurate office curves. If you need to convince your vet to get on board with it, here's a copy of the American Animal Hospital Association Diabetes guidelines for you to print out and bring to your vet. They clearly state that home testing is recommended over office testing.

If you're worried that your cat won't like or accept it, don't let that stop you! Even the grumpiest of cats allow it after it becomes part of their routine, and you give them a diabetic safe treat after every test. I thought Bandit would never let me test him easily, and sure enough the first week he was awful, but now he comes running, sits at my feet, and purrs when he hears the meter beep on.
 
so got home and litter boxes used and no wet carpet in bedroom.so i used the blacklight and theres signs but maybe from where they eat wet food?its not like splatters or on the wall.i almost wonder if he just didnt like the no mark spray and that was his way of telling me off?theres more marks where i eat on the carpet ect...

should i wait on litter box and see if he does it again?i cleaned with clorox and nature miracle again but marks still there.

i feed my other cat in a different room when they get wet food and shes a slob and looks like someone died by the uv light in there and that i know isnt pee its just her dropping food ect.

question comes to mind is why did he pick the shoes or this random spot?hes got clean litter both within 10-15 feet away?hes never been like this i almost think he hated the spray.ever hear of a cat doing something like that?
 
Something about shoes smells really good to some cats. I've a few that roll all over mine.

Can we get you started using our grid to record your glucose tests and observations on your cat? It will help us give you better feedback. Instructions are here.

Understanding the spreadsheet/grid:

The colored headings at the top are the ranges of glucose values. They are color-coded to clue you in as to meaning.

Each day is 1 row. Each column stores different data for the day.

From left to right, you enter
the Date in the first column
the AMPS (morning, pre-shot, test) in the 2nd column
the Units given (turquoise column)

Then, there are 11 columns labeled +1 through +11
If you test at +5 (5 hours after the shot), you enter the test number in the +5 column
If you test at +7 (7 hours after the shot), you enter the test number in the +7 column
and so on.

Halfway across the page is the column for PMPS (evening, pre-shot, test)
To the right is another turquoise column for Units given at the evening shot.

There is second set of columns labeled +1 through +11
If you snag a before bed test at +3, you enter the test number in the +3 column.

We separate day and night numbers like that because many cats go lower at night.

The nadir is the lowest glucose between shots. There is a general period when it will happen which is specific to the insulin being used and testing then helps make sure your cat doesn't go too low.

It is merely a grid for storing the info; no math required.
 
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