Cat - Not responding to insulin.

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Some cats are literally addicted to dry food. We call it kitty crack. Keep in mind you know what's best for him he doesn't. Try mixing the canned with dry. Maybe it was the brand or the flavor you tried? Keep trying some cats don't start eating canned over night. Keep with it don't get frustrated. When you get a chance read this it will help you with transitioning to canned food. www.catinfo.org.

Test for ketones please. When BG are high it's so important to be testing. I know another test for you to do....things are going to get better & easier. ;-)
 
im on my phone so i wont be able to reply to the other posts right now...

i went to the vet and spoke with one of the vets and she wouldnt give me levemir. she said she would give me detemir because she was familiar with it and said it was similar to levemir... any thoughts/advice? should i go somewhere elsle?
 
So is it the same stuff then?

Honestly the other vet is just as bad and was of no help at all when my cat was really sick one day. I don't care for either of them but they are the only ones here.

I'm at walmart and can't find the ketostix! Guess I will look elsewhere.
 
Ask the pharmacist. some stores have them behind the counter for some reason.

Carl
 
I have heard of Levemir, but not the other. It's very important to have a vet that is supportive of your suggestions & ideas. Its also important to have a vet who is more up to date on FD. Its surprising how many vets arent that knowledgable about FD. Your vet works for you. You have the freedom to fire them when you don't like their ideas or lack of support. Get coipes of the charts first. I am sure there are other vets in your area. Put a new post about searching for a vet in your area. Members will advice you what to ask & how to interview the vet. Your ultimate goal is remission. Its not always possible, but it is possible. Having the right insulin & protocol is a huge factor. Just keep that in mind.

I know this is so darn frustrating. It will get better. :YMHUG:
 
Yes, "levemir" is detimer. Just like lantus = glargene. Just name brands. Sort of like kleenex = tissues.

If you haven't yet made a decision which insulin to pick, please understand that all of us are biased, whether we intend to be or not. We all believe we know what the "best insulin for a cat is", but our opinions are somewhat based on what worked for "our cats". For instance, I'm a huge fan of PZI. For me, it had a 100% remission rate. It's the only insulin I have any first hand experience with. Some cats don't do well on Lantus, but do well with a switch to Levemir. Some cats don't respond to Prozinc/PZI but do better on a "depot" insulin like the L's. And vice versa.

There is only ONE "best" insulin, and I was told that by one of the most experienced and wise lantus users. The BEST insulin would be the insulin that works for YOUR cat. Unfortunately, there's no way to know that up front. Would Bob have gone OTJ on Humulin, Lantus or Levemir? Don't know, maybe so. What I KNOW is that he did with PZI. But I wouldn't advise you to use it on your cat.
What I would advise is that you visit each of the insulin support groups and read some threads. Look at some spreadsheets. But most importantly, read the "how it works" sticky threads. Understand the protocol, how it works, what to expect in terms of a response to the insulin, how it is dosed, how often, etc. They all work differently, they all have different protocols, they all get great results in some cats, not so great results in other cats. Some cats go OTJ in a matter of weeks, some take months or years. Others never do. But they all live better lives than they would have otherwise had, and can live for years on insulin.

I think the reason you haven't gotten positive results up till now is because your vet doesn't understand how to treat the disease, what a logical dose is, or how to base dose adjustments on the numbers the meter is giving you. He doesn't seem to have much faith in home testing, and more or less told you it was time to "give up". The fact they sent you home with Humulin is enough evidence.

Carl
 
Yes, Levemir=detemir. The fact that your vet does not know that, but claims to have significant experience with detemir would probably send me to a different vet. But for now, as long as she'll give you that script, that's all that matters. You can get help with dosing here--there is a lot of information for you in the Levemir forum. And definitely ask at the counter for help with the ketostix--I've bought them at Walmart before so unless they ran out they do carry them.

carlinsc said:
If you haven't yet made a decision which insulin to pick, please understand that all of us are biased, whether we intend to be or not. We all believe we know what the "best insulin for a cat is", but our opinions are somewhat based on what worked for "our cats". For instance, I'm a huge fan of PZI. For me, it had a 100% remission rate. It's the only insulin I have any first hand experience with. Some cats don't do well on Lantus, but do well with a switch to Levemir. Some cats don't respond to Prozinc/PZI but do better on a "depot" insulin like the L's. And vice versa.
Click to expand...

I understand your point that every cat is different, Carl, but there are studies that prove a significantly high remission rate for the "L" insulins. I would have no problem suggesting PZI along with them if there was any research that pointed towards a similar remission rate--however, what research is out there actually shows a lower remission rate for the old PZI, and no research has been done with the newer Prozinc. So my opinion is not just based on my personal experience, but rather the existing research.

Not that Prozinc is a bad insulin for cats--but given the choice between a known 84% remission rate and an unknown 40+?% remission rate, I would start with the better odds first if given the choice, so that is the basis behind my recommendation.
 
Hey guys,

I did get the Ketostix, and I just got back from my weekend trip and am ready to start testing tomorrow. I was away for the weekend so haven't been able to pick up his prescription yet. She did say she would call it in on Friday, so it should be ready to be picked up.

When testing for ketones, do I have to catch him when he is urinating?

I am still unsure of how to switch to the other insulin -- What dose I should start at, when I should test his blood, etc. I would like to start tomorrow AM and am free to do it since I work from home.

Just to be clear, she did say she would call in a script for detimir (levemir apparently) and that is what I'm going to be using. I would like to get him off dry food as well, but I'm unsure how often/how much wet food I should be feeding him. What kind of syringes do I need for the levemir?
 
Hi Brad. That's a lot of questions. I'll try to answer some of them. For the Levemir you will need to use U100 syringes. Did you pick those up, yet? You can get them at WalMart in most states without a prescription, but here in New Jersey you need a prescription.

I would do the switch to all wet canned food gradually and only while you are testing.
So, tomorrow will be your first BG test?

For ketone testing; I just take a little plastic cup (like the little cups they supply for ketchup at McDonalds) and wait for J.D. to be in the middle of peeing and then walk up and slip the little cup under his tail. Others use a ladle, and some can just dip the strip into the stream. If that fails there are other ways like catching a puddle before it is absorbed by the litter or adding some saran wrap over the litter, or replacing the cat litter with fish tank gravel. You wet the strip with the pee and wait exactly 15 seconds, and compare it to the bottle. Please let us know what the test result is when you get it. Also, I always write the date I opened the bottle on the outside as they are good for 6 months from that date.

We'll get some more advice for you on that starting dose. If you don't get any, please change the Subject Line in the first post of this thread to add or change the words to "Dose Advice For Tomorrow Needed" or something like that.

Best Of Luck with the Levemir.
 
Brad, did Shadow get his insulin over the weekend while you were gone? That throwing up on Friday, and then you being gone just has me worried. How is he feeling now?
 
Hey Dyana,

Thanks for the quick response! You guys are always quick to help me out, its great!
When I pick up the insulin I will get the syringes as well. Sorry for not being on the ball guys. Things have been somewhat hectic but I'm ready to start now and will be getting the insulin and needles tonight along with the testing supplies. The weekend kinda screwed me up but I'm going to take care of everything tonight. I live in nevada, hopefully law allows me to pick them up w/o a prescription.

Yes, tomorrow will be the first day I do testing. Do you test before you give him the insulin, food, etc? Or before and after and then every x hours? It all seems kind of overwhelming and I'm sure there's a learning curve but I'm generally a fast learner and catch on very fast. Hopefully I don't have many issues with shadow. He is pretty mellow and doesn't ever fuss with his shots so hopefully he doesn't mind me testing his blood!

The ketone testing seems like it would be difficult to do but I guess I could just do the saran wrap method or use fish gravel. Thanks for the suggestion I will do that asap. He pees quite a bit so I guess it shouldn't be too difficult.


Dyana said:
Hi Brad. That's a lot of questions. I'll try to answer some of them. For the Levemir you will need to use U100 syringes. Did you pick those up, yet? You can get them at WalMart in most states without a prescription, but here in New Jersey you need a prescription.

I would do the switch to all wet canned food gradually and only while you are testing.
So, tomorrow will be your first BG test?

For ketone testing; I just take a little plastic cup (like the little cups they supply for ketchup at McDonalds) and wait for J.D. to be in the middle of peeing and then walk up and slip the little cup under his tail. Others use a ladle, and some can just dip the strip into the stream. If that fails there are other ways like catching a puddle before it is absorbed by the litter or adding some saran wrap over the litter, or replacing the cat litter with fish tank gravel. You wet the strip with the pee and wait exactly 15 seconds, and compare it to the bottle. Please let us know what the test result is when you get it. Also, I always write the date I opened the bottle on the outside as they are good for 6 months from that date.

We'll get some more advice for you on that starting dose. If you don't get any, please change the Subject Line in the first post of this thread to add or change the words to "Dose Advice For Tomorrow Needed" or something like that.

Best Of Luck with the Levemir.
Click to expand...
 
And yes he did get his shots over the weekend my mom gives them to him while I am away. He hasn't been sick since, but overall he doesn't look like he's feeling too well. Hopefully tomorrow is a better day for us.
 
Hi Brad,

Just wanted to say hi and add my two cents. My Racci started on PZI and was all the way up to 5 units when I found a vet who switched her to Lantus. She immediately started getting better numbers and once I was able to switch her food they were even better. PZI is a good insulin too but some cats just don't do as well on one as another insulin. I would definitely not use the Humulin but ask for Lantus and give it a try.

Also you would need to buy the U100 syringes with it and I didn't see anyone mention to get the 31 gauge. It is much finer and will hurt less. I use the ones that are 30 units or less, w/ 1/2 unit markings 3ml 5/16" short needles.

Good luck.

I'm appalled that a vet would recommend euthanasia for diabetes in an otherwise healthy cat!

Melanie & Racci
 
Hi Brad. I see that you're online. How is Shadow doing?

I don't see any other advice given on starting dose. You won't want to start with 7 units of Levemir. Maybe 1 unit or maybe 2 units. The insulin should be given every 12 hours, so what would best fit your schedule? I'm sure it's like 3:00am in Neveda right now.
 
@MelanieAndRacci

I'm glad your cat is doing better! Hopefully I can have a success story as well. I already have the script for levemir so I will be going with that instead of Lantus. I will get the syringes today when I pickup the insulin. They gave me 10 U100 syringes with the Humulin (I think). Thanks for the input :smile:

Dyana said:
Hi Brad. I see that you're online. How is Shadow doing?

I don't see any other advice given on starting dose. You won't want to start with 7 units of Levemir. Maybe 1 unit or maybe 2 units. The insulin should be given every 12 hours, so what would best fit your schedule? I'm sure it's like 3:00am in Neveda right now.
Click to expand...
Hello Dyana,

Sorry I missed your post I must have got off before you posted. I know we should start out on a low dose just wish someone would recommend what to start at. Once I put some numbers up I'm sure someone will chime in though. I already fed him this morning because he came to me for food. I give him his shot around 9am~ and 9pm~ every day.

I did get a relion meter and test strips last night. The pharmacy was closed so I didn't get to pick the insulin up but I'm going to pick it up in a minute. I gave him the Humulin-N today since I didn't have the other insulin. Is it best to wait until tomorrow to give him the levemir or should I give it to him tonight at 9?

Thanks for the input!
 
I believe you can go ahead with the shot of Levemir tonight. Have you tried to get a test, yet?
9:00pm is midnight for me, and I will be long asleep by then. I would try to get a test or two today, and definitely get a test before giving the shot. We strongly recommend at the very least to get a test before every shot, to know it's safe to give the insulin.
When you get your first test, I would start a new thread and post the number in your new Subject Line with the words Starting Dose Help Needed Please, or something like that. I'm sure someone will be up to help you decide.
 
I just got the Levemir at the pharmacy. $135!!! Hopefully it works out. They gave me the wrong kind of needles though so I guess I will have to get them from the vet. I am kind of nervous about doing the first test -- But I'm going to bite the bullet and just do it! I'll report back with my findings. His shot was 5 hours ago.
 
Boy that didn't go very well ha! He was real fussy and definitely didn't like me trying to do it. But I got it done and it read 396. Atleast it's not as high as it was at the vet.

I would like to start the spreadsheet, but I'm not quite sure how to do it.
 
Also, the pharmacist told me the bottle is only good for 28 days. Does this hold any weight or what do you guys think?

Thanks! I'm happy I finally got started. I have a good feeling about it and am feeling pretty confident that we can get this under control! Thanks for all the support, I really do appreciate it.
 
You are doing a good job! I was a nervous wreck first test. I almost passed out giving the first shot. I put it off for almost a hour. I guess in hopes I was having a horrible nightmare. It gets better with time.

My ProZinc cost $140 from the vet. He said it would last me about 4 months. I am still on the same bottle & have less then 1/2 left. It's been 4 months. I don't know about the Levemir.

Make a new post for help on the SS. You will get excellent help.

Jenn & Baxter
 
Brad:

I'm just picking up on this now but I have read through the condo. I used lantus with Gracie for a year and now use levemir, as does Dyana, and love it. It has a very different curve from the other insulins but it is a very nice, gentle insulin.

Julie and I are on the West Coast and are up at night at your shot time (9 pm) and usually cruising the board until midnight at least. There are two protocols for using levemir insulin. One is Tight Regulation and the other is Start Low Go Slow. Because one of the requisites of doing TR is that the cat be on a low carb canned or raw food, then you should use the SLGS protocol until your kitty is entirely off dry food. But, as everyone else has said, you need to remove the dry food slowly.

Here is a link to the SLGS protocol: SLGS Protocol

Here is some basic info regarding Levemir: Levemir

The SLGS recommends
A conservative starting dose is 1.0-2.0 units, twice per day. If your cat’s blood glucose was less than 400 mg/dl (22.1 mmol/L) at diagnosis, or if your cat is on a low-carbohydrate diet, the starting dose should be only 0.5-1.0 units twice per day.
Click to expand...

I scrolled back through the thread but might have missed his weight. There are two ways to approach it: you could be really conservative and start at 0.5u bid (every 12 hours)...that way you are very unlikely to miss his fitting dose by starting too high. Or, if he's a large cat and since he's been in the 300s and more, it might not be a bad idea to start him at 1u bid (every 12 hours). FWIW, I would probably start him at 1u bid just based on the information you have provided and I think that would be a really good place to start. Then we can adjust as needed per the protocol.

Gayle left you the link to doing a Spreadsheet but I'll put it here because we will definitely need it to give you the best help: Spreadsheet

Please let us know what questions you have.

BTW....did you get a vial of levemir or the flexpens? A vial should last you close to six months if handled correctly and that would be about what a vial would cost. The 5-pack of pens is normally about $200 at Costco and each pen will last up to 42 days....and sometimes much longer...if handled properly.
 
hi brad, i'm just checking in with you too. i think you'll be very happy with the change to levemir.

as marje said, we're both late night people, on west coast time, and we'll be looking out for you tonight to see if you need help. hopefully others will be online as well.

so your job is to
1. start a spreadsheet with the link above
2. test him tonight & post the number
3. begin to transition him off of dry food and on to canned. read http://www.catinfo.org for tips on how to do that. very important to get rid of the dry, but we want it done over a few days so that there are no sudden plunges in blood sugar from the reduction in carbs.

see you 9ish. :-D

eta - what did you mean about the store having the wrong syringes and having to get them from the vet? one critical point is that you want to have u-100 syringes. make sure they do NOT say u-40 on it. do you have the u-100 ones?
 
Hey! Thanks for the reply. All I hear is wonderful things about the levemir so I think it will be a good fit for Shadow.

So before his shot tonight I will test his blood and update my spreadsheet accordingly.

My cat is decent sized, but has lost 2-3 pounds I would say.

Marjorie and Gracie said:
Brad:

I'm just picking up on this now but I have read through the condo. I used lantus with Gracie for a year and now use levemir, as does Dyana, and love it. It has a very different curve from the other insulins but it is a very nice, gentle insulin.

Julie and I are on the West Coast and are up at night at your shot time (9 pm) and usually cruising the board until midnight at least. There are two protocols for using levemir insulin. One is Tight Regulation and the other is Start Low Go Slow. Because one of the requisites of doing TR is that the cat be on a low carb canned or raw food, then you should use the SLGS protocol until your kitty is entirely off dry food. But, as everyone else has said, you need to remove the dry food slowly.

Here is a link to the SLGS protocol: SLGS Protocol

Here is some basic info regarding Levemir: Levemir

The SLGS recommends
A conservative starting dose is 1.0-2.0 units, twice per day. If your cat’s blood glucose was less than 400 mg/dl (22.1 mmol/L) at diagnosis, or if your cat is on a low-carbohydrate diet, the starting dose should be only 0.5-1.0 units twice per day.
Click to expand...

I scrolled back through the thread but might have missed his weight. There are two ways to approach it: you could be really conservative and start at 0.5u bid (every 12 hours)...that way you are very unlikely to miss his fitting dose by starting too high. Or, if he's a large cat and since he's been in the 300s and more, it might not be a bad idea to start him at 1u bid (every 12 hours). FWIW, I would probably start him at 1u bid just based on the information you have provided and I think that would be a really good place to start. Then we can adjust as needed per the protocol.

Gayle left you the link to doing a Spreadsheet but I'll put it here because we will definitely need it to give you the best help: Spreadsheet

Please let us know what questions you have.

BTW....did you get a vial of levemir or the flexpens? A vial should last you close to six months if handled correctly and that would be about what a vial would cost. The 5-pack of pens is normally about $200 at Costco and each pen will last up to 42 days....and sometimes much longer...if handled properly.
Click to expand...

Hey! Thanks for the reply. All I hear is wonderful things about the levemir so I think it will be a good fit for Shadow.

So before his shot tonight I will test his blood and update my spreadsheet accordingly.

My cat is decent sized, but has lost 2-3 pounds I would say. He weighs 9.8 pounds now as of his last vet visit.

I think I will start him out at 1 unit as you suggested.

I got a vial of levemir for $135. The pharmacist said the insulin is no good after 28 days which is why I asked.

julie & punkin said:
hi brad, i'm just checking in with you too. i think you'll be very happy with the change to levemir.

as marje said, we're both late night people, on west coast time, and we'll be looking out for you tonight to see if you need help. hopefully others will be online as well.

so your job is to
1. start a spreadsheet with the link above
2. test him tonight & post the number
3. begin to transition him off of dry food and on to canned. read http://www.catinfo.org for tips on how to do that. very important to get rid of the dry, but we want it done over a few days so that there are no sudden plunges in blood sugar from the reduction in carbs.

see you 9ish. :-D

eta - what did you mean about the store having the wrong syringes and having to get them from the vet? one critical point is that you want to have u-100 syringes. make sure they do NOT say u-40 on it. do you have the u-100 ones?
Click to expand...

I will be sure to do all of those and start tonight.

About the syringes -- They gave me needles that go in increments of 2 and all the way up to 100. The needle was quite thick too compared to the one the vet gave me. I do have u100 syringes that they gave me with the Humulin-N. I think I have 10 so I will go by the vet before I run out. Shadow's backbone is getting very skinny and he just looks like he's withering away.. I hope this will start working for him soon.

Thanks for the replies guys -- Will try to keep my hopes up!
 
Brad:

Julie's point is very important.....and I'm surprised the pharmacy would not have U100 syringes. So be sure whatever you get is U100...not U40.

To further her comments, just so we kinda see where he is, IF he will let you, it might help for you to get a +10 number (so that would be 7 pm your time) and post it for us. If not, then just post his PS number at 9pm.

Since you haven't been testing alot yet, if it's possible, it would be great to get a +2 test and post it for us. Julie and I should both still be up. We can then advise you on when you need to test again.

Normally, we would just recommend that you always get a PS test (we test, feed, shoot within 10 minutes roughly), and then at least a mid-cycle test around +6 during the day. At night, get a before bed test. If you can't get a mid-cycle test, then we would recommmend a test before you leave for the day. Any time you get a number at PS that is 200 or lower, please do not shoot and do not feed. Post the number FIRST and ask for help. If you get a low number during the cycle (for now let's say 100 or under), then post and ask for help.

I would recommend that, once you get your SS up, you move over to the Lantus TR ISG....tonight if at all possible. The only reason I recommend this is because there are many more people over there all hours of the day and night. You would find that forum by going to "Board Index", scroll down to "Insulin Support Groups", and click on "Lantus TR ISG". There are many of us there using levemir and we have several people doing the Start Low Go Slow protocol.

Once you get your feet on the ground with this and feel more comfortable, then you can decide if you want to stay in the Lantus TR ISG or move to the Levemir ISG or the Relaxed Lantus ISG. Both of those groups can help you as well but there are less people on them.

When you do move over, just open up a new topic and put in the subject line the date, "Bart's Shadow", and something like "new to group" or "need help".

Just saw your post....Uh.....I don't know what those insulin syringes are that are in increments of 2u and go up to 100 but that is not what you want. The syringes the vet gave you...are they in the packages still? They should be U100, 3/10cc...you don't want the 1/2 or 1cc okay?

If the syringes the vet gave you are not U100, 3/10cc, then I'd go back out to Walgreens or Wal mart and tell them: U100, 3/10cc, 1/2-unit marking. The gauge and needle length are up to you. The needles come in 1/2" or 5/16". That is a personal preference...some say the 1/2" give better absorption BUT it's easier to give a fur shot. Also, the gauges would be 29, 30, 31 with 31 being the smallest. Typically the 31g only come in the 5/16" needle.

The vet is going to charge you an arm and a leg for the syringes.

Also...the pharmacist is wrong about the vial. What pharmacy did you go to and are you sure it was a pharmacist and not a tech?

Here's info about handling the vial and it includes a very, very good video about drawing a dose from a vial. Please be sure you look at these before you shoot tonight:

Proper Handling and Storage
 
Hey,

I just tested the blood as you suggested, although 30 minutes late and he tested 517. Any suggestions?

Thanks!
 
Good job. I'd go ahead and plan to shoot the 1u of levemir on time. You will still have to get a test before you shoot.
 
Hey guys..

Bad news. His preshot test wouldn't even read on my meter. It just said Hi. Which means it was over 600+.

And then I have my mom telling me how she thinks we're just going to wake up one day and he's just gonna be dead. That got me kind of down and made me angry.... I gave him the 1 unit of Levemir and a can of Fancy Feast. Will test again in 2 hours..
 
it's ok brad - we've seen lots of highs. good start. don't be discouraged.

i think you got ketostix, didn't you? as you're making this transition, we're going to want you to check him for ketones daily.

also, because we're dropping the dose and changing the insulin all at the same time, several of us talked about it and we'd like you to just make the switch all at once to low carb canned food. might as well make all the changes at once - that'll help his bg as well.

check back in when you have the next test.
 
julie & punkin said:
it's ok brad - we've seen lots of highs. good start. don't be discouraged.

i think you got ketostix, didn't you? as you're making this transition, we're going to want you to check him for ketones daily.

also, because we're dropping the dose and changing the insulin all at the same time, several of us talked about it and we'd like you to just make the switch all at once to low carb canned food. might as well make all the changes at once - that'll help his bg as well.

check back in when you have the next test.
Click to expand...
I know, but it just seems his health is getting worse and he's losing more weight.

I did get ketostix but haven't tested yet, I will put saran wrap over the litter right now, i just changed the whole box.

So to confirm take away his dry food right now? How often should I be feeding him wet food?

Thanks!
 
for the moment, give him as much as he wants, just dole it out in perhaps 1/2 can amounts per hour. he needs to not lose weight. pick up the food 2 hrs before his next shot so that you can get an accurate blood test.

yes, take away the dry food.

yes, get a ketone test. that's important.

what time did you actually shoot?
 
julie & punkin said:
for the moment, give him as much as he wants, just dole it out in perhaps 1/2 can amounts per hour. he needs to not lose weight. pick up the food 2 hrs before his next shot so that you can get an accurate blood test.

yes, get a ketone test. that's important.

what time did you actually shoot?
Click to expand...
I buy the tiny cans of the food, give him half a can of those per hour? But okay, makes sense. thank you. I put the saran wrap in the box.

I gave him the shot around 9:10pm.
 
you can poke it down so it makes little cups. hopefully he'll still use it. some people stick a spoon in the stream after he starts to pee.

i edited the last post before you just posted - take away all the dry if you have enough canned food.

i'll check back in at 11:10 to see where you're at, but i'll need to go to bed shortly after that. please post when you get that test. in the meantime, if you have questions or get a ketone test in, post. i'll watch for you.
 
great job getting the spreadsheet up and going! can you go back and try to recreate any BG tests you've had and somewhat match them with times? i know you've switched from prozinc to humulin to the levemir, but every single bit of data you can pull up will help us help you.

the way the spreadsheet reads, from left:

date,
AMPS = preshot BG number in the morning (am preshot)
dose shot
the +1-+11 means how many hours after the morning shot. we have members from all over the world and that's how we "talk." each kind of insulin has a pattern, or cycle. we can "read" the numbers in the ss and it helps us with dosing.
PMPS = preshot BG number in the evening (pm preshot)
then same thing as the morning, but for the evening cycle. that covers 24 hours
the comments section is for anything that might be important - how he looks, what he's eating or drinking, if he's getting meds. it helps us know the rest of the story besides the numbers.

the spreadsheet is an essential tool for us - that's a quick way for anyone with experience to be able to take a quick look and give you help. so every time you test his BG, just get in the habit of updating right then.

when you give shadow his canned food, would you also add as much water to it as he will tolerate? that will help with these high numbers.
 
julie & punkin said:
great job getting the spreadsheet up and going! can you go back and try to recreate any BG tests you've had and somewhat match them with times? i know you've switched from prozinc to humulin to the levemir, but every single bit of data you can pull up will help us help you.

the way the spreadsheet reads, from left:

date,
AMPS = preshot BG number in the morning (am preshot)
dose shot
the +1-+11 means how many hours after the morning shot. we have members from all over the world and that's how we "talk." each kind of insulin has a pattern, or cycle. we can "read" the numbers in the ss and it helps us with dosing.
PMPS = preshot BG number in the evening (pm preshot)
then same thing as the morning, but for the evening cycle. that covers 24 hours
the comments section is for anything that might be important - how he looks, what he's eating or drinking, if he's getting meds. it helps us know the rest of the story besides the numbers.

the spreadsheet is an essential tool for us - that's a quick way for anyone with experience to be able to take a quick look and give you help. so every time you test his BG, just get in the habit of updating right then.

when you give shadow his canned food, would you also add as much water to it as he will tolerate? that will help with these high numbers.
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I tried recreating some of the testing that was done and punched in the numbers from the vet. Atleast it's a start.

When my cat wouldn't eat one day I found putting water in with the food and heating it up for 15 seconds was good for him and he drank/ate quite a bit of it. But I will start doing that.
 
Hey,

Just tested Shadow's blood and he came out to 479. I made the mistake of letting go of his ear and he shook his head and blood went everywhere! Oops! Lesson learned. I thought I had read not to do that but it slipped my mind.

Any thoughts on his numbers? Thanks
 
i should temper that food advice - do you have an idea of what he ought to weigh? i think you said he's around 9lbs now, is that correct? the food should be enough to keep him from losing any more weight. the insulin dose is in relation to the amount of the food a cat eats, so if he really eats 1/2 of a 3oz fancy feast every hour that would likely make his numbers high and probably be too much food.

my cat weighs 13ish lbs and eats 3 cans of fancy feast every day, plus a little bit more. we don't want him to lose any more weight - that's important.

any luck with the ketone test yet?

yay - actually the fact that it moved at all is very encouraging.

no worries on the flying blood. we've all looked like a crime scene with some tests! :lol:

how late are you good for tonight?
 
julie & punkin said:
i should temper that food advice - do you have an idea of what he ought to weigh? i think you said he's around 9lbs now, is that correct? the food should be enough to keep him from losing any more weight. the insulin dose is in relation to the amount of the food a cat eats, so if he really eats 1/2 of a 3oz fancy feast every hour that would likely make his numbers high and probably be too much food.

my cat weighs 13ish lbs and eats 3 cans of fancy feast every day, plus a little bit more. we don't want him to lose any more weight - that's important.

any luck with the ketone test yet?

yay - actually the fact that it moved at all is very encouraging.

no worries on the flying blood. we've all looked like a crime scene with some tests! :lol:

how late are you good for tonight?
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I'm not sure how much he should way. I would say he should be 12-13 pounds normally, he was looking kinda fat before all this diabetes stuff started. The vet just told me to feed him with every shot, which is what I do. I give him a 3oz can when i give him a shot, and usually a can in between (he usually comes and finds me when he's hungry). He usually eats it all.

I checked his box and nothing yet. I will put him in the garage and hope he goes...

Yeah the blood went everywhere! Oops. What a mess.

I am going to be up for another 4-6 hours. Should I test again at +4?

BTW: Am I doing the spreadsheet correctly?
 
just fyi - the carbs from dry food can take a while to leave a cat's body.

small meals of the canned food spread out would be great. water added is good, heated up is fine.

are there any other health issues going on? i apologize for asking what i'm sure you've already answered, but your thread is overwhelming! so many posts! can you give me the short version of his recent health?

yes - the spreadsheet looks great.

i'd test again at +4 and if you are up, also at +6. at this point you are gathering data. all the tests you do help. as we learn how Shadow's body responds to the insulin we'll get a better picture of how to help him.

if i'm doing my math right - you're 18ish - and i want to give you HUGE kudos for taking care of your cat. you're doing great!
 
um, i just re-read the "put it in the garage" - i think the urine has to be fresh for the ketone test. ya might have to stalk him! :lol:

when he does pee, you want to time the reading of the ketone strip exactly. it will continue to change as time passes, so watch it carefully.

edited to add - would you also add the early-on parts of his diabetes treatment into his spreadsheet. even if you have to kinda guess - you can do something like this:

november 2011 - diagnosed with diabetes BG #____ (if you know it) started on Prozinc 1unit dose
dosage increased by 1 unit amounts up to 7units in March (or whenever it was)
tests ranged from x to x.

3/16 switched to Humulin, 3 units blah blah - you get the idea. any dates, insulin, dose amount and BG#'s that you have - stick them in there.

something like that - we just want that info to be part of the story. we don't know at this point if he needs a high dose or not, but it's an important detail that he was getting 7 units at one point.
 
julie & punkin said:
just fyi - the carbs from dry food can take a while to leave a cat's body.

small meals of the canned food spread out would be great. water added is good, heated up is fine.

are there any other health issues going on? i apologize for asking what i'm sure you've already answered, but your thread is overwhelming! so many posts! can you give me the short version of his recent health?

yes - the spreadsheet looks great.

i'd test again at +4 and if you are up, also at +6. at this point you are gathering data. all the tests you do help. as we learn how Shadow's body responds to the insulin we'll get a better picture of how to help him.

if i'm doing my math right - you're 18ish - and i want to give you HUGE kudos for taking care of your cat. you're doing great!
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I just took the food away too so I'm not sure when the last time he had some was.

I will start feeding him smaller meals more frequently then, sounds like a plan!

There are NO other health issues going on. The vet diagnosed him with this and that was it. I'm not sure all the testing they did but I'm sure i've spent over $800 on all of this. I can't believe the response my thread has had! It really is overwhelming, but not in a bad way. Just lots of information to take in. I see a lot of the other threads don't get near as much attention as mine has gotten. But I appreciate it guys, keep the posts coming!

I will definitely do the tests then, I'll set an alarm on my phone so I'll remember.

And yes, I'm 18 turn 19 in may. He's been my bud since I was 4 years old which is why it's so hard for me to let go and I'll do anything to make him better, even if it brings him only a year more of life -- that's fine with me. I'll take what I can get, I just don't want him to suffer. It's nice having a flexible schedule so I can take care of him. If I had to work away from home I'm sure it would be much more difficult.

Thanks again for all the support guys :smile:
 
julie & punkin said:
um, i just re-read the "put it in the garage" - i think the urine has to be fresh for the ketone test. ya might have to stalk him! :lol:

when he does pee, you want to time the reading of the ketone strip exactly. it will continue to change as time passes, so watch it carefully.
Click to expand...
hmm. I thought one of the previous posts had mentioned that I could use aquarium gravel or something to get the urine and test it. Maybe I misunderstood.
 
you can use aquarium gravel, but read the instructions on the ketone strips - i'm thinking the urine has to be fresh. you can't have him pee during the night and test it in the morning. i'm not sure because i don't use them much - just read the directions.

you're doing a great job answering all my questions! i was editing a prior post - so scroll up and see where i added in red not knowing you were posting.

i'm headed for bed. you're doing great. you can thank dyana for some of the attention - she sent out an SOS for help for you! ;-) sounds like we better make sure others aren't getting missed!

if you need quick help during the night, post here and post on the Lantus TR forum. those are the most likely to have traffic during the night.
 
julie & punkin said:
you can use aquarium gravel, but read the instructions on the ketone strips - i'm thinking the urine has to be fresh. you can't have him pee during the night and test it in the morning. i'm not sure because i don't use them much - just read the directions.

you're doing a great job answering all my questions! i was editing a prior post - so scroll up and see where i added in red not knowing you were posting.

i'm headed for bed. you're doing great. you can thank dyana for some of the attention - she sent out an SOS for help for you! ;-) sounds like we better make sure others aren't getting missed!

if you need quick help during the night, post here and post on the Lantus TR forum. those are the most likely to have traffic during the night.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the info.

I updated the spreadsheet with the background info and will test again in an hour and ten mins and post the results. Thanks! have a good night.
 
Okay so I tested again at +4. The first result was 396 and then I thought maybe the test strip didn't have enough blood on it so I tested it again and it was 441 about 5 minutes later... Could he have gotten stressed because I was messing with him causing it to shoot up? The second time around the strip was filled to the same mark, so I think the first one had a sufficient amount of blood after comparing the 2 strips.

I will go ahead and put the first result in my spreadsheet, and if you guys say to put in the latter I will.

Thanks!
 
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