Cat newly diagnosed with diabetes

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sandysh66

sandysh66

Member Since 2023
Hello. My mom passed away and I brought her cat Snuggles to live with me in March 2022. Last week I noticed she was drinking a lot of water and peeing a lot. I took her to the vet this past Saturday. Snuggles Glucometer reading was 550. I was given Vetsulin insulin and told by the vet to administer 2 units every 12 hours and I was given paperwork with instructions. I got home and went over the paperwork. The instructions stated to give the insulin injections before the meal. I am not administering the insulin until after the meal. I’m a nurse and I know better! I was also instructed to take Snuggles blood sugar approximately 8 hours after eating main meal but also instructed there should be food available at all times to nibble on. So I did check her blood sugar yesterday late afternoon and it was 360. How accurate is that with the ability to nibble? So, I took it upon myself to decide to change Snuggles diet. I have ordered the food and would like any and all advice I can get before I make the switches. I called the vet’s office this morning and the vet said there is no feline diabetic diet. Also, Snuggles has been on prescription c/d diet for crystals for approximately two years. Please help!
 
Welcome, Sandy. Waving from Canada. Thank you for taking in your mom's Snuggles and being proactive with her care.

The proper sequence is:
1. Test (to make sure the number is high enough to shoot)
2. Feed (to make sure there is enough food on board to counter the fast drop in numbers)
3. Wait 30 minutes (to give the food time to do its thing)
4. Shoot

Vetsulin was designed for dogs and is no longer recommended for cats who have a faster metabolism. (There are better insulins out there.) Vetsulin is harsh and drops a cat fast and hard during the first half of the cycle (and that is when you should test the most). Vetsulin rarely last the 12 hours. By the 8 hour mark, the cat is likely to be on the way back up.

Food:
Below is a list of low carb food. If you switch to low carb food, it must be done slowly. Just a food change alone can drop overall numbers by up to 100. The current dose could then be too high.
The same vet also wrote about urinary tract diseases. Now that you are dealing with crystals and diabetes, it is well worth a read.
https://catinfo.org/feline-urinary-tract-diseases/
 
Red & Rover (GA) said:
Welcome, Sandy. Waving from Canada. Thank you for taking in your mom's Snuggles and being proactive with her care.

The proper sequence is:
1. Test (to make sure the number is high enough to shoot)
2. Feed (to make sure there is enough food on board to counter the fast drop in numbers)
3. Wait 30 minutes (to give the food time to do its thing)
4. Shoot

Vetsulin was designed for dogs and is no longer recommended for cats who have a faster metabolism. (There are better insulins out there.) Vetsulin is harsh and drops a cat fast and hard during the first half of the cycle (and that is when you should test the most). Vetsulin rarely last the 12 hours. By the 8 hour mark, the cat is likely to be on the way back up.

Food:
Below is a list of low carb food. If you switch to low carb food, it must be done slowly. Just a food change alone can drop overall numbers by up to 100. The current dose could then be too high.
The same vet also wrote about urinary tract diseases. Now that you are dealing with crystals and diabetes, it is well worth a read.
https://catinfo.org/feline-urinary-tract-diseases/
Click to expand...
Thank you for the response. Should I call the vet’s office and suggest a different insulin? And if so, what is the recommended insulin for cats? She is going to be 11 years old in April and weighs 13.5 lbs. Thank you!
 
what Red said!

Your nurse instincts are spot on! Vetsulin, also know as caninsulin was developed for canines who have a slower metabolism than cats and only eat twice a day. It hits hard and fast so Snuggles needs to have food onboard at least 30 minutes to an hour before you give her her shot

the best insulins are gentler long lasting ones like Lantus or prozync. They also have the greatest rate of remission in cats
 
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Food available to nibble or smaller meals throughout the day is great and if you’re going to switch him to a low carb diet you do need to be testing daily. Ideally before each shot so in the am and pm. For these tests you want to withhold food for at least 2 hours so the result is not food influenced since it’s going to tell you if it’s safe or not to give insulin. Then we also recommend at least 2 more tests, one in the day and one in the evening so you can get an idea of how low the dose is taking him. For these additional tests you don’t need to withhold food. They are important because we give dose advice based on the nadir, the lowest she goes in a 12-hour cycle, not the pre shot values.
 
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Lastly, here’s some more basic info copied from one of our more experienced members:

Hi and welcome to the forum.

Unfortunately most vets do not know a lot about feline diabetes….they have many animals to look after and they all have different diseases and treatments. With a diabetic cat you need

  • A low carb wet diet that is 10% carbs or under. Most of us use around 4-7% carbs
  • A suitable insulin such as Lantus or Prozinc which are long acting, more gentle insulins than the old insulins.
  • We recommend hometesting the blood glucose with a human meter…it is not necessary to use a pet meter which is expensive to run and is no better. It will keep your kitty safe and you will know how the dose is working for your kitty. Only testing every so often will not tell you what is happening in between those times and an awful lot can happen in even a day.
  • HELP US HELP YOU has information about the spreadsheet, signature and hypo box which you will need to be able to look after your beloved kitty properly
A word of warning though…don’t change the food you are feeding at the moment over to the low carb food until you are testing the blood glucose because a change over can drop the BGs by up to 100 points and we don’t want you to have a hypo on your hands.

We are happy to help you with setting up the spreadsheet, sorting out what food to buy, how to transition safely to a low carb diet, how to learn to home test and much more.

You will also need some higher carb foods for that hypo box..information in the help us help you link.

This is an excellent site for diabetic cats…it has been around for more than 25 years and has very experienced people to help you.

Keep asking lots of questions.
 
Ale & Minnie (GA) said:
Lastly, here’s some more basic info copied from one of our more experienced members:

Hi and welcome to the forum.

Unfortunately most vets do not know a lot about feline diabetes….they have many animals to look after and they all have different diseases and treatments. With a diabetic cat you need

  • A low carb wet diet that is 10% carbs or under. Most of us use around 4-7% carbs
  • A suitable insulin such as Lantus or Prozinc which are long acting, more gentle insulins than the old insulins.
  • We recommend hometesting the blood glucose with a human meter…it is not necessary to use a pet meter which is expensive to run and is no better. It will keep your kitty safe and you will know how the dose is working for your kitty. Only testing every so often will not tell you what is happening in between those times and an awful lot can happen in even a day.
  • HELP US HELP YOU has information about the spreadsheet, signature and hypo box which you will need to be able to look after your beloved kitty properly
A word of warning though…don’t change the food you are feeding at the moment over to the low carb food until you are testing the blood glucose because a change over can drop the BGs by up to 100 points and we don’t want you to have a hypo on your hands.

We are happy to help you with setting up the spreadsheet, sorting out what food to buy, how to transition safely to a low carb diet, how to learn to home test and much more.

You will also need some higher carb foods for that hypo box..information in the help us help you link.

This is an excellent site for diabetic cats…it has been around for more than 25 years and has very experienced people to help you.

Keep asking lots of questions.
Click to expand...
I ordered the Fancy feast pate…1-3 carb according to the chart link above …should I change and order wet food with a few more carbs? Thank you!
 
Fancy feast pate is perfect. That’s what most of us feed our sugar kitties here.

It would be good to grab a few medium and high carb options next time you’re at a store for your hypo kit. FF gravy lovers is a good option.
 
sandysh66 said:
I just called the vet’s office about possibly changing to a different insulin (currently on Vetsulin) and they carry no other brands.
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Hi Sandy I'm sorry to hear about your mom♥ The vet can write you a script for generic Lantus ( Glargine) Just tell the pharmacy you want the generic
I'll give you can some information , one minute
You can have the vet write the script for generic lantus ,many members use it
Here is some info
Check this out also
https://www.goodrx.com/insulin-glargine?dosage=five-3ml-prefilled-pens-of-100-units-ml&form=carton&label_override=insulin glargine&quantity=1
The 5 pens will last about a year, we use the pens just like a vial, you would just insert the syringe it the gray rubber stopper on the pen and draw out your insulin
Its generic lantus.
If you get the generic lantus you will need U-100;syringes with half unit markings, we adjust the dose by 0.25 units at a time
If you need any more information about anything just ask ok:cat:



Or this one also

I see some members will call CVS, Rite Aid, Costco, Walgreen's, to get the price for 5 pens
Posted by another member
One members posted this
. I paid $175 for a box of 5 pens at Walmart pharmacy, but GoodRX coupon says you can get it for around $90 if you have a Rite Aid pharmacy near you.
 
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I don’t know much about prozync, but Lantus is a human insulin and you can get it at any human pharmacy. The generic version is cheaper and there are some great online coupons you can use to make it even more affordable. As Diane already pointed out above. Thanks Diane for saving me the trouble of tagging you ha!
 
Update- I talked to the vet’s office and they are hesitant to prescribe a different insulin. The vet said they’ve had great results with the Vetsulin and cats. She also stated that I didn’t have to check blood sugars since it’s a long lasting insulin and the cat is eating. Where to go from here?
 
Ale & Minnie (GA) said:
Lastly, here’s some more basic info copied from one of our more experienced members:

Hi and welcome to the forum.

Unfortunately most vets do not know a lot about feline diabetes….they have many animals to look after and they all have different diseases and treatments. With a diabetic cat you need

  • A low carb wet diet that is 10% carbs or under. Most of us use around 4-7% carbs
  • A suitable insulin such as Lantus or Prozinc which are long acting, more gentle insulins than the old insulins.
  • We recommend hometesting the blood glucose with a human meter…it is not necessary to use a pet meter which is expensive to run and is no better. It will keep your kitty safe and you will know how the dose is working for your kitty. Only testing every so often will not tell you what is happening in between those times and an awful lot can happen in even a day.
  • HELP US HELP YOU has information about the spreadsheet, signature and hypo box which you will need to be able to look after your beloved kitty properly
A word of warning though…don’t change the food you are feeding at the moment over to the low carb food until you are testing the blood glucose because a change over can drop the BGs by up to 100 points and we don’t want you to have a hypo on your hands.

We are happy to help you with setting up the spreadsheet, sorting out what food to buy, how to transition safely to a low carb diet, how to learn to home test and much more.

You will also need some higher carb foods for that hypo box..information in the help us help you link.

This is an excellent site for diabetic cats…it has been around for more than 25 years and has very experienced people to help you.

Keep asking lots of questions.
Click to expand...
I would love any kind of help you can give me! This site is a Godsend.
 
sandysh66 said:
Update- I talked to the vet’s office and they are hesitant to prescribe a different insulin. The vet said they’ve had great results with the Vetsulin and cats. She also stated that I didn’t have to check blood sugars since it’s a long lasting insulin and the cat is eating. Where to go from here?
Click to expand...

I see you said you are a nurse do you work very long hours , only reason I'm asking is to see how often you can test Snuggles

Vetsulin is not a long acting insulin
Here is the link to read about Vetsulin , read all the yellow stickys
https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/forums/caninsulin-vetsulin-and-n-nph.19/

Not check his BG that's crazy!
Since the vet won't agree to give you a script for Lantus , let's see how he does on Vetsulin.
If you live in the US I would definitely go out and buy a human meter that's what our numbers are based on .
If you have a Walmart by you pick up the Relion Premier Classic for 9 bucks
17.88 for 100 test strips
I would NOT CHANGE his food to low carb wet yet until you start to home test, doing so can drop his BG by 100 points

Here is a link helping us to help you link. If you noticed, our members have some basic information about their cat's in their signature. This helps us to not pester you by asking the same questions (your cat's name, insulin type, date of diagnosis, etc.) repeatedly. We also have a link to our spreadsheet in our signature. We are very numbers driven. The spreadsheet is a record of your cat's progress. By linking it in your signature, we can follow along and provide feedback should you need the help.
If you need help setting up the spreadsheet just ask , we have a member here who would be happy to set it up for you
 
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Always aim for the sweet spot warm the ears up first, you can put rice in a sock and put it in the microwave, test it on the inside of your wrist to be sure it's not to hot, like you would test a babies bottle. You can fill a pill bottle with warm water and roll it on the ears also.Just keep rubbing the ears with your fingers to warm them up
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6. As the ears get used to bleeding and grow more capilares, it gets easier to get the amount of blood you need on the first try. If he won’t stand still, you can get the blood onto a clean finger nail and test from there.
When you do get some blood you can try milking the ear.
Get you finger and gently push up toward the blood , more will appear
You will put the cotton round behind his ear in case you poke your finger, after you are done testing you will fold the cotton round over his ear to stop the bleeding , press gently for about 20 seconds until it stops
Get 26 or 28 gauge lancets
A lot of us use the lancets to test freehand not the lancing device
I find it better to see where I'm aiming
Look at the lancet under a light and you will see one side is curved upward, that's the side you want to poke with

A video one of our members posted, she is using a pet meter ,strips too expensive plus you have to code it
A human meter is just fine, most of us use human meters ,that's what our numbers are based on
When you get your meter can you add the name of it to your signature and spreadsheet


VIDEO: How to test your cat's blood sugar

Here is another link to read
This is a link to one of our posts on home testing.
 
Welcome to FDMB!!

Your nursing instincts are spot on. There are a couple of things I'd encourage you to discuss with your vet.
  • This is a paper published by the American Animal Hospital Association that reviews the treatment of feline diabetes. Vetsulin has not been recommended by a leading veterinary association since 2018. Your vet needs to do more continuing education and not treat cats like small dogs. Their metabolism is entire different. Either Prozinc or Lantus (glargine) are the insulins recommended for the treatment of feline diabetes. Prozinc can be purchased through Chewy's. Lantus (brand name) is available at any pharmacy. The brand name is pricey. It is now available as a generic/biosimilar and far less expensive. You will need to call around to see which of your local pharmacies carry it. You will need U100 syringes for glargine (Prozinc uses U40 syringes like Vetsulin.)
  • I would ask your vet if he would follow his own recommendations if it was his infant that was diagnosed with diabetes. I cannot imagine a pediatrician or any MD for that matter who would tell a person to not test their blood glucose levels. Just like with humans, you need to know if it's safe to administer insulin.
  • I would also ask if he would feed his diabetic child cookies and ice cream. Of course there are dietary recommendations for managing diabetes. Your cat needs to be on a low carb diet. Frankly, the higher carb food that your vet sold you is likely what is preventing your cat's numbers from plummeting. Home testing will keep your cat safe and allow you to titrate the dose. You can do curves at home and not pay the vet to do so. In addition, you will know the effect of dose and food on your cat's numbers. (It's really no different than what a diabetic human would do.)
  • If your vet insists that he's right, ask for his cell phone number. When he asks why, let him know you'll be calling at all hours when your cat has a symptomatic hypoglycemic event. (I didn't suggest asking if his malpractice was paid up!)
My apologies for being so blunt. I find it more than annoying that some vets are so uninformed about treating feline diabetes (well, either that or I've been hanging around FDMB for way too long!).

Please let us know what questions you have. We have tons of information and members here who are very generous with their time and knowledge.
 
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Sienne and Gabby (GA) said:
Welcome to FDMB!!

Your nursing instincts are spot on. There are a couple of things I'd discuss with your vet.
  • This is a paper published by the American Animal Hospital Association that reviews the treatment of feline diabetes. Vetsulin has not been recommended by a leading veterinary association since 2018. Your vet needs to do more continuing education and not treat cats like small dogs. Their metabolism is entire different. Either Prozinc or Lantus (glargine) are the insulins recommended for the treatment of feline diabetes. Prozinc can be purchased through Chewy's. Lantus (brand name) is available at any pharmacy. The brand name is pricey. It is now available as a generic/biosimilar and far less expensive. You will need to call around to see which of your local pharmacies carry it. You will need U100 syringes for glargine (Prozinc uses U40 syringes like Vetsulin.)
  • I would ask your vet if he would follow his own recommendations if it was his infant that was diagnosed with diabetes. I cannot imagine a pediatrician or any MD for that matter who would tell a person to not test their blood glucose levels. Just like with humans, you need to know if it's safe to administer insulin.
  • I would also ask if he would feed his diabetic child cookies and ice cream. Of course there are dietary recommendations for managing diabetes. Your cat needs to be on a low carb diet. Frankly, the higher carb food that your vet sold you is likely what is preventing your cat's numbers from plummeting. Home testing will keep your cat safe and allow you to titrate the dose. You can do curves at home and not pay the vet to do so. In addition, you will know the effect of dose and food on your cat's numbers. (It's really no different than what a diabetic human would do.)
  • If your vet insists that he's right, ask for his cell phone number. When he asks why, let him know you'll be calling at all hours when your cat has a symptomatic hypoglycemic event. (I didn't suggest asking if his malpractice was paid up!)
My apologies for being so blunt. I find it more than annoying that some vets are so uninformed about treating feline diabetes (well, either that or I've been hanging around FDMB for way too long!).

Please let us know what questions you have. We have tons of information and members here who are very generous with their time and knowledge.
Click to expand...
How do you feel about the starting dose of Vetsulin 2u twice daily? She has had three doses of the 2u thus far. It takes two of us to test Snuggles…my husband holds her down and I test her. She will attack me if I try testing her myself…this is from experience yesterday. She wanted no part of changing insulins and there are a few vets within an hour radius but they aren’t accepting new patients.
 
This is from the Vetsulin sticky
Starting Dose
  • Usually it’s best to start with a low dose of not more than one unit (1.0u), twice a day. The manufacturer recommends a starting dose of 0.25u to 0.5u per kg body weight.
    • If your cat is on a low carbohydrate (less than 10% carb), canned or raw food diet (there are a few select dry foods that are low carb) and blood glucose is less than 380 mg/dL (or < 20 mmol/L) the starting dose should be 0.5u.
    • If your cat is on a diet that is over 10% carb and blood glucose is over 380 mg/dL (or > 20 mmol/L), you can start at 1.0u.
    • If you are transitioning your cat to a low carb diet, your starting dose should be 0.5u.
  • For those new to dealing with feline diabetes we recommend that you post and ask for help if the BG is below 200 mg/dL (11 mmol/L) on a human glucose meter. Please post both here and on the Health forum especially is you see this forum isn’t busy. (For more information on what these numbers mean see ‘Home Blood Glucose Testing’ information below.)
 
sandysh66 said:
Hello. My mom passed away and I brought her cat Snuggles to live with me in March 2022. Last week I noticed she was drinking a lot of water and peeing a lot. I took her to the vet this past Saturday. Snuggles Glucometer reading was 550. I was given Vetsulin insulin and told by the vet to administer 2 units every 12 hours and I was given paperwork with instructions. I got home and went over the paperwork. The instructions stated to give the insulin injections before the meal. I am not administering the insulin until after the meal. I’m a nurse and I know better! I was also instructed to take Snuggles blood sugar approximately 8 hours after eating main meal but also instructed there should be food available at all times to nibble on. So I did check her blood sugar yesterday late afternoon and it was 360. How accurate is that with the ability to nibble? So, I took it upon myself to decide to change Snuggles diet. I have ordered the food and would like any and all advice I can get before I make the switches. I called the vet’s office this morning and the vet said there is no feline diabetic diet. Also, Snuggles has been on prescription c/d diet for crystals for approximately two years. Please help!
Click to expand...
I can try tagging some Vetsulin users about the vet giving him 2 units of Vetsulin
@Suzanne & Darcy

@FrostD

Ladies Sandy has already given 2 units of Vetsulin already
This is from her post #20
How do you feel about the starting dose of Vetsulin 2u twice daily? She has had three doses of the 2u thus far. It takes two of us to test Snuggles…my husband holds her down and I test her. She will attack me if I try testing her myself…this is from experience yesterday
 
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Diane Tyler's Mom said:
This is from the Vetsulin sticky
Starting Dose
  • Usually it’s best to start with a low dose of not more than one unit (1.0u), twice a day. The manufacturer recommends a starting dose of 0.25u to 0.5u per kg body weight.
    • If your cat is on a low carbohydrate (less than 10% carb), canned or raw food diet (there are a few select dry foods that are low carb) and blood glucose is less than 380 mg/dL (or < 20 mmol/L) the starting dose should be 0.5u.
    • If your cat is on a diet that is over 10% carb and blood glucose is over 380 mg/dL (or > 20 mmol/L), you can start at 1.0u.
    • If you are transitioning your cat to a low carb diet, your starting dose should be 0.5u.
  • For those new to dealing with feline diabetes we recommend that you post and ask for help if the BG is below 200 mg/dL (11 mmol/L) on a human glucose meter. Please post both here and on the Health forum especially is you see this forum isn’t busy. (For more information on what these numbers mean see ‘Home Blood Glucose Testing’ information below.)
Click to expand...
I’m so overwhelmed. I’m not sure what dose I should give tonight. Should Snuggles not eat so many hours prior to checking her blood sugar? I’m thinking the vet started her on a high dose because her blood sugar was 550 in the vet’s office.
 
I have Lantus in the refrigerator but I’m not comfortable giving Snuggles Lantus when it wasn’t prescribed for her.
 
I agree 110% with everything Sienne said. Vetsulin is NOT a long lasting insulin and frankly the fact your vet doesn’t know that, would make me run for the hills if I were you. That’s basic insulin info that she’s certainly lacking. You can do a basic google search and come up with that on your own. No need to go to vet school. It’s that basic!

2 units is too high a dose to start a cat on with any insulin let alone Vetsulin. I would go down to 1 unit especially since you’re not home testing yet. The start dose has nothing to do with the bg number. You start low and increase from there as needed. It’s about being safe. Minnie was on Lantus. The issue is that if you start Snuggles on it, you’d have to know you’ll be able to refill and for that you need a prescription. I’m curious, who is diabetic in your household?

Copying and pasting from my previous post here where I mentioned withholding food and testing:
“if you’re going to switch him to a low carb diet you do need to be testing daily. Ideally before each shot so in the am and pm. For these tests you want to withhold food for at least 2 hours so the result is not food influenced since it’s going to tell you if it’s safe or not to give insulin. Then we also recommend at least 2 more tests, one in the day and one in the evening so you can get an idea of how low the dose is taking him. For these additional tests you don’t need to withhold food. They are important because we give dose advice based on the nadir, the lowest she goes in a 12-hour cycle, not the pre shot values.”
 
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sandysh66 said:
I’m so overwhelmed. I’m not sure what dose I should give tonight. Should Snuggles not eat so many hours prior to checking her blood sugar? I’m thinking the vet started her on a high dose because her blood sugar was 550 in the vet’s office.
Click to expand...

I agree with Ale start with 1 unit
You said in your post above
. So I did check her blood sugar yesterday late afternoon and it was 360.
Did you do any other tests after that to see how low his sugar dropped?
We need to see how the insulin is/working for him ,meaning setting up a spreadsheet and testing him first thing in the AM that's called the AMPS ( AM Pre Shot)
Then some tests after that , to see how low he's dropping (nadir)
Same thing at night 12 hours later PMPS ( PM Pre Shot)
Withhold food 2 hours prior to testing
Test , feed , wait 30 minutes then give insulin
You need to get at least one test in after you test AM and PM
I would get a +2 ( 2 hours after giving insulin), if the BG is lower than the AM test it might be an active cycle and then more testing would be needed
And a +6 test
Please read the link I gave you to read about Vetsulin
yellow stickys
https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/forums/caninsulin-vetsulin-and-n-nph.19/

Do you have U-40 syringes with half unit markings?
We adjust the dose by 0.25 units at a time.
Even though these syringes have 0.5 increments on them, they are easier to eyeball when it comes to adjusting the dose by 0.25 units
 
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You can't give Lantus because you need a different syringe. I'm sure you know that the concentration of the insulin needs to match the way the syringe is calibrated. Vetsulin is a U40 insulin and the syringes you're using should say U40 on them somewhere. Lantus is a U100 insulin and you need U100 syringes.

I think a starting dose of 2u is huge. This is a link to our instructions/overview of Vetsulin. If your cat is still eating a higher carbohydrate diet, we suggest a starting dose of 1.0u. If on a low carb diet, the starting dose is 0.5u. The exception would be if your cat was diagnosed with DKA. We are much more aggressive when dealing with ketones. In fact, I'd suggest getting some Ketostix and testing your cat's urine. It's a solid preventative measure if your cat's numbers are high. Keep in mind that the blood glucose numbers at the vet's office are likely inflated due to stress. It can become an issue if dosing is based on the vet's numbers since they are likely to be much higher than what you would see at home when your cat is in familiar surroundings. (You are probably much more familiar with Novolin/Humulin N. Vetsulin is in many ways similar. Neither is a good insulin for cats.)

I work with MDs. You might consider the same strategy for working with a smart MD who reads the literature and apply it to your vet. Send your vet the AAHA guidelines and let him know you want to discuss what you read. Unless the vet has an ego as big as all outdoors, he will (hopefully) be open to reading something out of one of his professional journals. It may also convince him that you are an informed medical professional and want to partner with him to ensure Snuggles is getting the best care possible. My cat was initially prescribed Novolin. I brought one of the first research papers on Lantus for feline diabetes to my vet. By the end of the month, she's converted the entire staff to prescribing Lantus. (It was a cat-only clinic.) Reminding your vet that being completely dependent on their office for insulin and all of the paraphernalia is crazy. What happens if your bottle of insulin hits the floor on a Saturday after their office is closed (and of course, it will happen on a holiday weekend). You want options that give you greater flexibility and reflect evidence based treatment.
 
Ale & Minnie (GA) said:
I agree 110% with everything Sienne said. Vetsulin is NOT a long lasting insulin and frankly the fact your vet doesn’t know that, would make me run for the hills if I were you. That’s basic insulin info that she’s certainly lacking. You can do a basic google search and come up with that on your own. No need to go to vet school. It’s that basic!

2 units is too high a dose to start a cat on with any insulin let alone Vetsulin. I would go down to 1 unit especially since you’re not home testing yet. The start dose has nothing to do with the bg number. You start low and increase from there as needed. It’s about being safe. Minnie was on Lantus. The issue is that if you start Snuggles on it, you’d have to know you’ll be able to refill and for that you need a prescription. I’m curious, who is diabetic in your household?

Copying and pasting from my previous post here where I mentioned withholding food and testing:
“if you’re going to switch him to a low carb diet you do need to be testing daily. Ideally before each shot so in the am and pm. For these tests you want to withhold food for at least 2 hours so the result is not food influenced since it’s going to tell you if it’s safe or not to give insulin. Then we also recommend at least 2 more tests, one in the day and one in the evening so you can get an idea of how low the dose is taking him. For these additional tests you don’t need to withhold food. They are important because we give dose advice based on the nadir, the lowest she goes in a 12-hour cycle, not the pre shot values.”
Click to expand...
My husband is a diabetic. He’s actually decreasing his dose due to diet changes. He saw the doctor today.
 
Sienne and Gabby (GA) said:
You can't give Lantus because you need a different syringe. I'm sure you know that the concentration of the insulin needs to match the way the syringe is calibrated. Vetsulin is a U40 insulin and the syringes you're using should say U40 on them somewhere. Lantus is a U100 insulin and you need U100 syringes.

I think a starting dose of 2u is huge. This is a link to our instructions/overview of Vetsulin. If your cat is still eating a higher carbohydrate diet, we suggest a starting dose of 1.0u. If on a low carb diet, the starting dose is 0.5u. The exception would be if your cat was diagnosed with DKA. We are much more aggressive when dealing with ketones. In fact, I'd suggest getting some Ketostix and testing your cat's urine. It's a solid preventative measure if your cat's numbers are high. Keep in mind that the blood glucose numbers at the vet's office are likely inflated due to stress. It can become an issue if dosing is based on the vet's numbers since they are likely to be much higher than what you would see at home when your cat is in familiar surroundings. (You are probably much more familiar with Novolin/Humulin N. Vetsulin is in many ways similar. Neither is a good insulin for cats.)

I work with MDs. You might consider the same strategy for working with a smart MD who reads the literature and apply it to your vet. Send your vet the AAHA guidelines and let him know you want to discuss what you read. Unless the vet has an ego as big as all outdoors, he will (hopefully) be open to reading something out of one of his professional journals. It may also convince him that you are an informed medical professional and want to partner with him to ensure Snuggles is getting the best care possible. My cat was initially prescribed Novolin. I brought one of the first research papers on Lantus for feline diabetes to my vet. By the end of the month, she's converted the entire staff to prescribing Lantus. (It was a cat-only clinic.) Reminding your vet that being completely dependent on their office for insulin and all of the paraphernalia is crazy. What happens if your bottle of insulin hits the floor on a Saturday after their office is closed (and of course, it will happen on a holiday weekend). You want options that give you greater flexibility and reflect evidence based treatment.
Click to expand...
I am switching to the 1u of Vetsulin tonight. I have ordered all Glucometer supplies and low carb food. I will be testing twice daily(as long as Snuggles doesn’t send me to the ER needing stitches!). How should I integrate the low carb food? She is also on Hills prescription c/d for a history of two episodes of crystals. I’m hoping to stop the prescription food and go to totally wet food. She sure does love her dry food and treats though.
 
The Hills C/D Dry is about 43 % carbs way way to high
TRANSITIONING FROM DRY TO WET FOOD

Be sure to have these at home for your hypo kit



Such as
med and high carb wet food and some honey?


Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers Gourmet Beef Feast in Grav
20% High Carbs

Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers Gourmet Chicken Feast in Gravy 15% Med Carbs

Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers Turkey Feast in Gravy 15% Med Carbs

Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers Chicken and Beef in Gravy 15% Med Carbs

Good idea to mark the cans with magic marker how many carbs

Or any on the food chart. Doesn't have to be Fancy Feast just an example about the med and high carb foods
And some honey in the house

https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/dr-pierson-new-food-

Between 11% and 17% is medium carbs.

18% and over is high carb.
 
Hi Sandy
Just a suggestion, this is my experience with this food
, Tyler was blocked this past Nov , the mucus plug, cost me 1288.00 at the ER
They suggested the same prescription food you are giving
I looked and the carbs were way too high, he has been in remission since 1-24-21
so I was not going to feed him any of that.
He was on Fancy Feast Classic Pate.
I now give him this since Nov of last year and it did not raise his BG at all

It does list the ingredients
https://www.walmart.com/ip/24-Pack-...Beef-and-Chicken-Entree-5-5-oz-Cans/808002179

I know you can get it from Amazon, and Chewey
I get it at Petco, or Pet Smart so I don't have to order it on line

Here is the Purina Website
https://www.purina.com/pro-plan/cats/wet-cat-food/urinary-tract-health-formula-beef-chicken

I told my vet about it and he said it was fine
The carbs for the beef and chicken is around 4% and low phosperous

Sometimes I'll cut up some of this cat food and put a little bit on top of the Purino Pro Plan Urinary Tract, so he doesn't get bored :p low carb 0.338
259086_MAIN._AC_SS300_V1605283327_.jpg



Here's the Beef and Chicken Pro Plan
https://www.purina.com/pro-plan/cats/wet-cat-food/urinary-tract-health-formula-beef-chicken

pro-plan-urinary-track-health-beef-chicken-wet-cat-food.png
 
Last edited:
Diane Tyler's Mom said:
The Hills C/D Dry is about 43 % carbs way way to high
TRANSITIONING FROM DRY TO WET FOOD

Be sure to have these at home for your hypo kit



Such as
med and high carb wet food and some honey?


Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers Gourmet Beef Feast in Grav
20% High Carbs

Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers Gourmet Chicken Feast in Gravy 15% Med Carbs

Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers Turkey Feast in Gravy 15% Med Carbs

Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers Chicken and Beef in Gravy 15% Med Carbs

Good idea to mark the cans with magic marker how many carbs

Or any on the food chart. Doesn't have to be Fancy Feast just an example about the med and high carb foods
And some honey in the house

https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/dr-pierson-new-food-

Between 11% and 17% is medium carbs.

18% and over is high carb.
Click to expand...
I will get these this weekend.
 
C
Diane Tyler's Mom said:
Hi Sandy
Just a suggestion, this is my experience with this food
, Tyler was blocked this past Nov , the mucus plug, cost me 1288.00 at the ER
They suggested the same prescription food you are giving
I looked and the carbs were way too high, he has been in remission since 1-24-21
so I was not going to feed him any of that.
He was on Fancy Feast Classic Pate.
I know give him this since Nov of last year and it did not raise his BG at all

It does list the ingredients
https://www.walmart.com/ip/24-Pack-...Beef-and-Chicken-Entree-5-5-oz-Cans/808002179

I know you can get it from Amazon, and Chewey
I get it at Petco, or Pet Smart so I don't have to order it on line

Here is the Purina Website
https://www.purina.com/pro-plan/cats/wet-cat-food/urinary-tract-health-formula-beef-chicken

I told my vet about it and he said it was fine
The carbs for the beef and chicken is around 4% and low phosperous

Sometimes I'll cut up some of this cat food and put a little bit on top of the Purino Pro Plan Urinary Tract, so he doesn't get bored :p
259086_MAIN._AC_SS300_V1605283327_.jpg



Here's the Beef and Chicken Pro Plan

db07dfce-aeca-4d2f-b68f-1d16cf0e1dd2.3b280238495912df5eee92203083834e.jpeg
Click to expand...
Would you clarify? I ordered cases of the Fancy feast low carb earlier today. I’m not sure I understand what you’re giving instead of the prescription c/d wet food. Thank you!
 
Diane Tyler's Mom said:
The Hills C/D Dry is about 43 % carbs way way to high
TRANSITIONING FROM DRY TO WET FOOD

Be sure to have these at home for your hypo kit



Such as
med and high carb wet food and some honey?


Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers Gourmet Beef Feast in Grav
20% High Carbs

Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers Gourmet Chicken Feast in Gravy 15% Med Carbs

Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers Turkey Feast in Gravy 15% Med Carbs

Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers Chicken and Beef in Gravy 15% Med Carbs

Good idea to mark the cans with magic marker how many carbs

Or any on the food chart. Doesn't have to be Fancy Feast just an example about the med and high carb foods
And some honey in the house

https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/dr-pierson-new-food-

Between 11% and 17% is medium carbs.

18% and over is high carb.
Click to expand...
It is the c/d wet not dry. I’m sure it’s not much better!
 
There's also a great read on the feline nutrition site. I find the article on transitioning a cat to canned food is helpful. If Snuggles has been on a dry diet, you'll want to go gradually both from the standpoint of getting your cat used to the food but also because many cats have GI issues if you transition too fast. It sounds like you're husband is a good model for how diet and insulin effect one another.

Most of the folks here. use freeze dried chicken (or other protein) as a treat. Using cooked chicken also works if Snuggles likes human food.

If crystals have been an issue, add water to your cat's food. My cats don't have urinary tract issues but I still add water to their canned food. Cats don't have a great thirst drive. In the wild, they get most of their fluids from eating live prey. It's why canned food is so much better -- it has a higher moisture content. Adding water is also good for your cat's kidneys. Diabetes is hard on the kidneys so whatever you can do for renal health is a plus.

Just one thought about testing... You want to get a pre-shot test to be sure it's safe to give insulin. We also recommend at least one additional test during each 12-hour cycle. I encourage people to get a test before you go to bed. That way you'e able to go to sleep knowing that your cat is in safe numbers. Ideally, you're getting a test somewhere around when your cat's nadir falls.
 
sandysh66 said:
C

Would you clarify? I ordered cases of the Fancy feast low carb earlier today. I’m not sure I understand what you’re giving instead of the prescription c/d wet food. Thank you!
Click to expand...
Hi since Tyler was blocked I didn't want it to happen again so I switched him to the Pro Plan. You can definitely give him the Fancy Feast Pates, I just figured since Snuggles had crystals twice you might want to give the Purina Pro Plan Urinary Yract
 
Sienne and Gabby (GA) said:
There's also a great read on the feline nutrition site. I find the article on transitioning a cat to canned food is helpful. If Snuggles has been on a dry diet, you'll want to go gradually both from the standpoint of getting your cat used to the food but also because many cats have GI issues if you transition too fast. It sounds like you're husband is a good model for how diet and insulin effect one another.

Most of the folks here. use freeze dried chicken (or other protein) as a treat. Using cooked chicken also works if Snuggles likes human food.

If crystals have been an issue, add water to your cat's food. My cats don't have urinary tract issues but I still add water to their canned food. Cats don't have a great thirst drive. In the wild, they get most of their fluids from eating live prey. It's why canned food is so much better -- it has a higher moisture content. Adding water is also good for your cat's kidneys. Diabetes is hard on the kidneys so whatever you can do for renal health is a plus.

Just one thought about testing... You want to get a pre-shot test to be sure it's safe to give insulin. We also recommend at least one additional test during each 12-hour cycle. I encourage people to get a test before you go to bed. That way you'e able to go to sleep knowing that your cat is in safe numbers. Ideally, you're getting a test somewhere around when your cat's nadir falls.
Click to expand...
My mom had been giving Snuggles about 1 ounce of Hills prescription c/d wet cat food and Meow Mix vitality bursts dry cat food (left out all day for her to eat as she pleased). I do add a small amount of water to her wet food. It is literally a struggle to test her. It takes two of us and my husband has to use gloves we bought on chewy. I ordered all my supplies so hoping I can start testing like I should be. As of right now I’m giving her Vetsulin 1u ( instead of 2u vet ordered and advice I’ve been given on this site) twice a day after she eats her main meal. I have done 3 doses of the 2u with no issues but I worry that it’s started as too high of a dose from what I’m reading. The vets office seems very clueless when it comes to knowledge with feline diabetes. Thank you so much for this information…you guys are great!
 
Diane Tyler's Mom said:
Hi since Tyler was blocked I didn't want it to happen again so I switched him to the Pro Plan. You can definitely give him the Fancy Feast Pates, I just figured since Snuggles had crystals twice you might want to give the Purina Pro Plan Urinary Yract
Click to expand...
How many carbs is in the Proplan urinary Tract wet food? My mom had been giving about one ounce of the Hills c/d wet food twice daily.
 
Could someone tell me if Hill’s prescription c/d chicken wet cat food has 29.6% carbs in a 5.5 ounce can and I am giving one ounce per serving how many carbs are in the one ounce serving?
 
sandysh66 said:
Could someone tell me if Hill’s prescription c/d chicken wet cat food has 29.6% carbs in a 5.5 ounce can and I am giving one ounce per serving how many carbs are in the one ounce serving?
Click to expand...
The % of carbs is still the same, we base everything on the overall %. So whether you have a teaspoon, tablespoon, or whole can - that serving is 29.6% carbs (assuming that's the right number, I don't have time to look up at the moment).

I agree with all other advice. If you'll be transitioning diet, I would reduce to 0.5U. some U40 syringes, not a whole lot, have half unit markings. Otherwise, we eyeball it.
 
FrostD said:
The % of carbs is still the same, we base everything on the overall %. So whether you have a teaspoon, tablespoon, or whole can - that serving is 29.6% carbs (assuming that's the right number, I don't have time to look up at the moment).

I agree with all other advice. If you'll be transitioning diet, I would reduce to 0.5U. some U40 syringes, not a whole lot, have half unit markings. Otherwise, we eyeball it.
Click to expand...
Thank you! As soon as I get everything and transition her diet I will reduce Vetsulin to .5u….twice a day still right?
 
Diane Tyler's Mom said:
Hi Sandy
Just a suggestion, this is my experience with this food
, Tyler was blocked this past Nov , the mucus plug, cost me 1288.00 at the ER
They suggested the same prescription food you are giving
I looked and the carbs were way too high, he has been in remission since 1-24-21
so I was not going to feed him any of that.
He was on Fancy Feast Classic Pate.
I now give him this since Nov of last year and it did not raise his BG at all

It does list the ingredients
https://www.walmart.com/ip/24-Pack-...Beef-and-Chicken-Entree-5-5-oz-Cans/808002179

I know you can get it from Amazon, and Chewey
I get it at Petco, or Pet Smart so I don't have to order it on line

Here is the Purina Website
https://www.purina.com/pro-plan/cats/wet-cat-food/urinary-tract-health-formula-beef-chicken

I told my vet about it and he said it was fine
The carbs for the beef and chicken is around 4% and low phosperous

Sometimes I'll cut up some of this cat food and put a little bit on top of the Purino Pro Plan Urinary Tract, so he doesn't get bored :p low carb 0.338
259086_MAIN._AC_SS300_V1605283327_.jpg



Here's the Beef and Chicken Pro Plan
https://www.purina.com/pro-plan/cats/wet-cat-food/urinary-tract-health-formula-beef-chicken

pro-plan-urinary-track-health-beef-chicken-wet-cat-food.png
Click to expand...
How much of the proplan do you give your kitty? And how many times a day?
 
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