Cat in the UK just diagnosed with diabetes

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Thanks everybody for your help & advice about setting up a spread sheet. At the moment, until my vet works out the dose of insulin that will keep Squiggles stable, she's told me to only test her once a fortnight.

I am keeping a record of the results, but I don't think I've got the confidence yet to alter her insulin results after testing her myself.

These are the blood test results we did last Thursday , starting at 8.30am pre shot & before being fed, & then done 2 hrly. I had to ring the vet at 5.30 pm with my results.

25.2 18.4 17.2 17.1 24.7.

I used the Alpha Track 2 tester & my vet says normal cat glucose levels are around 9.

This was giving Squiggles 2iu of insulin twice a day. My vet now suggests I put it up to 2.5 iu
 
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Hello Lynn & Squiggles welcome.
I have just read through your thread and you seem to be getting very good support from the other UK members,the only addition I can make regarding the wet food is The Happy Kitty Company stock high quality grain free food that they import from Germany,I have been ordering online but if you give them a call they will let you purchase a small amount of a mixed variety to try,the person I deal with is called Sam,ask to speak to her as she is very helpful.the food I have found to be the highest quality,and which Bailey likes is Granatapet the regular and the symphonie.Aine mentioned Natures Menu,that is good quality too.I stopped feeding Bailey Lilys Kitchen,as good as it seemed I have been very uneasy with the Carraggenan that it contains.
Hope this was of some help, regards Diane
 
Hello Diane & thanks for your welcome & all your helpful information xx I'll certainly give the Happy Kitty Company a call & ask if I can buy a small number of the mixed variety of foods you mention.
 
Hi Lynn,

Diane has just recommended Granatapet. That is a meat 'n' jelly type food which should appeal to Squiggles. The Symphonie chicken pure is the best quality food I came across in our food trials. Sadly one of Saoirse's pancreatitis triggers appears to be salmon so I can't feed her the Symphonie chicken (it contains salmon oil supplementation). I'm really disappointed about this because it's an organic - and therefore GMO-free - food and it would have been my first choice if it had agreed with my girl. The quality of the ingredients is excellent.

BTW, according to the Merck manual, the normal fasting BG range for a non-diabetic cat is 4.2-6.7 mmol/L (75-120 mg/dL). My vets advised me that the normal range is 3.9-8.3mmol/L (although they didn't advise whether that was fasting level or included postprandial levels).
 
Check my signature link Glucometer Notes for information on glucose reference values for various meter types and measurement systems, plus some notes on how these work.
 
This is Squiggles, the first time I ever met her, in an RSPCA rescue shelter. Apparently she was 4 and a half.
" Choose Meeee Please ! "

 
Squiggles is even more beautiful in the second photo. I am developing the biggest soft spot for your girl: she reminds me very much of Saoirse's brother (no longer with me). I absolutely adored him ... (and I love Saoirse for both of them).

WRT the Royal Canin food, my heartfelt advice would be "Run, don't walk, away from it." I'm firmly convinced that Saoirse's current problems all stem from my having fed her various Royal Canin veterinary diets (as prescribed by our then vet). I would not recommend RC dry foods to anyone.

I was worried that I would not be able to switch Saoirse to an all-wet, low carb diet but she gets no dried food at all now (apart from her freeze-dried protein treats). Finding foods that will agree with Saoirse is tricky because of her pancreatitis (and possible IBD) problems, but now that she's used to the wet she will happily eat the wet foods that agree with her. Overall she is so much healthier since making the switch - coat, body condition, mood, the works. I'd recommend keeping at the changeover with Squiggles. As Dr Lisa indicates on her website, persistence can work. Blitzing up something like Cosma Snackie freeze-dried treats (from Zooplus) into a powder and sprinkling a teensy bit on top of the wet food is a great way to make it more tempting.
 
Thanks for you nice comments about Squiggles Critter Mom & your advice about dry cat bics.

Squiggles back legs seem slightly weak, ( I think it's peripheral neuropathy) .Having read up about it , apparently this can be a result of the glucose levels not being stabilised properly so the nerves are affected & should get better once her blood sugar levels are regulated. Anyway, as you can guess I’m a bit distracted this development this morning :( & I'm going to ring the vet.

I'll also search about on this board for a peripheral neuropathy thread.
 
I've made an appt with the vet, & am taking squiggles this afternoon to ask about methylcobalamin injections.
 
Methylcobalamin isn't a quick fix, although it helps. You can get it over the counter, just make sure there are no sweeteners of any sort. The dose for neuropathy is 3 mg daily in addition to glucose control.
The vet should check potassium levels as they cause some of the same issues.
 
Hi Lynn,What a lovely photo of Squiggles,she looks adorable,
Just thought it might be of interest to you I have found a new food this weekend,and Bailey is very taken with it! It is called Meowing Heads,and it ticks all the right boxes as far as being very good quality,high meat content,grain free & sugar & preservative free. I picked up a couple of the chicken variety pots at my local pet shop,but I see it is available on the Internet,type I'm Meowing Heads Wet Cat Food.
Aine if you read this thread you might be interested too.
 
Thank you BJM & Diane for your helpful posts. I'll certainly look into them.

I'm back, I made an appt in the end & took Squiggles to the vets . My vet had never heard of cats with diabetes getting peripheral neuropathy & after I had quoted her chapter & verse, I think she wished she hadn't :)
She also didn't know that Vit B 12 was one of the treatments, but they hadn't got the one in stock that was recommended for diabetic cats, so she gave Squiggs a standard Vit B12 injection.
She didn't seem to keen on ordering the correct one in, so if there is an improvement, I'll suggest she writes me a prescription & I'll get the right one from Pet Meds.
She said I'd taught her something new !

I asked her to check Squiggles potassium level, but she seemed reluctant :(

BJM is Methylcobalamin an injectable liquid, an oral liquid or a powder ?
 
Hi Lynn,

Presumably your vet gave Squiggles a cyanocobalamin injection. Saoirse had a course of them and they did wonders for her. Saoirse didn't have any marked clinical signs of neuropathy, but she started jumping onto higher surfaces (e.g. windowsill, arms of sofa) again within only a couple of weeks of starting the course of injections, and her standing posture improved noticeably as time went on. To the best of my knowledge, the course of injections is the most effective way to address a newly identified B12 deficiency.
 
I don't see why she wasn't keen on testing potassium levels. You would be asked to pay for it after all! It is a standard test that is done in house. Hopefully squiggles will improve with the b12 but if not it would be worth requesting again as from what I have read low potassium can have implications with regards kidney disease.

Did you discuss the caninsulin and your blood glucose readings?
 
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I would be looking for another vet that is willing to work with you.I changed vets 9 months after Bailey was diagnosed,and have never looked back,the only regret is I didn't change sooner,if I had of done Bailey might then have had a chance of going OTJ
 
No Rx needed for methylcobalamin. Just pop over to your local health food store or online and tell them you want without any sweeteners.
 
Thank you once again folks, you're all stars *HUGS* This present vet will be working at the other practise for 2 days a week, so I think I'll go back to seeing the vet I trusted, who's back from maternity leave. The only thing is the poor girl looks shattered :(

Critters Mom, I think it was cyanocobalamin , she said it should last for a month, but I'm not sure if that's true, anyway I shall investigate everything I've been told on here & go back & tell the vet what I want ! She said she'd got old cat legs, & I said " Don't be daft, she's only 8 and a half ! "

Don't worry Phlika I havn't forgotten about the potassiuum levels & I shall mention them again. I have talked to her about the Caninsulin & glucose levels . Last night because she'd been lethargic we did a blood glucose test & it was 17.1 10 hours after her last shot which is 7 points lower than the last time.

BJM, do you just pierce the methylcobalamin capsule & drip in on their food ? or what's the best way to do it ?

It was cyanocobalamin , I've just checked the receipt.
 
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It may come as a tablet, powder with or without capsule, or liquid. Just split it over a couple meals daily to optimise its use; excess goes out via the urine.
You want to find a version with 3-5 mg easily given. Try your local Amazon marketplace.
 
Test
Another member was not able to reply to this thread so I am checking if I can.

Sorry for the interruption!
 
LynRich said:
I think it was cyanocobalamin , she said it should last for a month, but I'm not sure if that's true, anyway I shall investigate everything I've been told on here & go back & tell the vet what I want ! She said she'd got old cat legs, & I said " Don't be daft, she's only 8 and a half ! "
Click to expand...
I learned the hardest way how important it is to trust your gut on many things when it comes to caring for your cat. Vets may be experts on medicine, but you are the world authority on your cat's overall bearing, mood and behaviour.
The vets we were registered with when Saoirse presented with FD symptoms gave an initial Dx of "old lady". I didn't buy that either. If you could see the before and after of her, it's amazing what the right diet (species-appropriate, wet, low carb) has done for her. Our main treating vet at the new practice could not get over the change in Saoirse - and how very much younger she looks. Her coat is soft and shiny, all the rusted fur has gone, and her body condition's much better, too. The vet said that if he didn't actually know her age, he would have thought she was years younger than she actually is.
 
Thanks BJM, how long after yesterday's Vit B12 shot is it safe to start giving her the methylcobalamin ?

Critters Mom, I'm beginning to realise how right you all are. Squiggles has rusted fur & it never occurred to me that it was the diabetes !

I'm going to go back to my vet I had before she went on maternity leave, I'm sure I'll work better with her . It would be difficult to move to another practise, we live in a very rural area, & I'd always be worried in the case of an emergency I'd have to drive miles to get vet help. In the past my present practise have been very good when it came to all the problems that my late elderly cats developed.
 
Just letting you know I feel your pain. I'm having to switch vets because my vet no longer supports me home testing, and was downright rude to me. Nipper is up to 5.6U Caninsulin and still peeing everywhere and high most of the day, though she is better than she was at diagnosis. Fortunately I have several vet options in the area.

Please keep us posted on how you're doing. Give Squiggles some fuss for me.

Lori
 
Thank you Lori, that's very kind of you *HUGS* . I'm sorry Nipper hasn't got her diabetes stabilised yet, it must be a great worry for you.
 
You can start giving it now.
The B vitamins are water soluble. If the body doesn't need what has been given, it will be passed out via the kidneys.
 
Help please ! I can't find any MethylCobalamin without sweeteners on line on UK web sites. I can see them on the Amazon US sites.

Sorry for the bold type , that was a mistake !
 
Try a local health food store. The customer service folks may be able to order you something.
 
I think I've found one BJM

.http://www.amazon.co.uk/Pure-Encaps...Vcaps/dp/B0017L9N4A?tag=felinediabetesfdmb-20

It says it's 1,000 micrograms per capsule Did you day Squiggles would need 3-5 mg twice a day ?
This is what it says about it .

Supplement FactsEach vegetable capsule contains:
Methylcobalamin (vitamin B12) 1,000mcg (16,667%DV)
Other Ingredients: hypo-allergenic plant fiber, vegetable capsule.
Contains NO: dairy, wheat, yeast, gluten, corn, sugar, starch, soy, preservatives, hydrogenated oils, hidden coatings, excipients, binders, fillers, shellacs, artificial colors or fragrance.
 
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That'd work.
1,000 mcg = 1 mg
You'll need 3-5 capsules per day, spread out over meals.
 
Thank you BJM I've discovered they charge £9.50 to post them from Germany ! Although a large bottle costs the same to post. So if my local health food shop doesn't stock something similar, I'll order them.

I presume I'll have to give them to Squiggles for about 6 months or until she's better.
 
Lynn

I researched where to get this supplement somewhat and posted by findings in this thread

http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/methylcobalamin.127788/

I ended up buying the zobaline from Canada but am sure that the some of the ones you can get off eBay or in the uk are all fine. Just check with BJM first as she understands the ingredients much more than I do.

In fact just reviewed my thread and this one is available in the UK

http://www.bodykind.com/product/bro...tive-B12-60-x-1500mcg-Vegicaps.aspx#questions

I think it's okay but someone please double check
 
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Phlika , thank you so much, you're a star , *HUGS* I've had a look, & as far as I can see, the ingredients are fine. I'll let BJM check the link over, but those capsules look OK to me.

I'd never thought of buying zobaline from Canada.
 
The Dr's Best methylcobalamin linked to above should be just fine. (I use it for my CRF foster kitty). It's great that this is now available in the UK as the cost of importing Zobaline has become prohibitive.
The dose of the capsules is half that of the Zobaline though, so if you want to get the same dose you'd need to use 2 capsules to get 3mg.

Eliz
 
Thank you Elizabeth, yes it's good that we can get the right Vit B 12 over here now, I'll remember to only use two capsules.

Hello Critter Mom, we're doing alright, she's put on a bit of weight, but I don't want her to get too tubby because of the diabetes & her wobbly legs. It's awful to see her trying to jump up on things, :( but she can make it onto the sofa & the bed !
 
Hi Lynn. Thanks for the update. I'm glad to hear you're both doing OK. I know what you mean about how tough it is to see Squiggles not being able to jump properly. The only time Saoirse showed any obvious signs of weakness was when she tried to jump up onto a windowsill. She didn't make it ... My heart took an express elevator to the basement. :-( We were living in a very small, cramped flat at the time so it was difficult to spot 'missing behaviours'. I only managed to identify that Saoirse must have been experiencing neuropathy-related weakness prior to diagnosis based on how she started jumping up onto the sofa arms, windowsill, and up to her testing station (on a table at the time) as the insulin and B12 started helping her to get better. One of the toughest aspects of being a kitty mom is trying to look after little ones that are masters of deception when they're poorly: they hide their discomfort/symptoms far too well.
 
I know Critter Mom, they do hide their symptoms :( Looking back over the last week or two I realise she was stopping for rests more often. Also, she has a habit of jumping on the loo lid, then onto the shelf next to the basin & checking to see if there's any water to drink ! It was heart breaking watching her trying to do this. I lifted her up as she sometimes sleeps on the surface next to the wash basin , strange cat ! See pic ( preparing to jump to the next level )

I meant to say I got some Nature's Menu & Applaws wet cat food today, from Pets at Home.

 
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Hi Lynn

Love the photo. What a cutie.

Hopefully the switch to wet will help her numbers but whilst she is transitioning it is best to get in a few tests to check she doesn't go too low.

I know I keep harping on about it but if her numbers /symptoms don't improve my advice would be to go back to the other vet and discuss switching to lantus. Or phoning Ruth at the RVC. Please don't think I am getting at you but just want to do the best for you and Squiggles :bighug:

Which applaws is it?
 
Awwwwww! She is so gorgeous! If the forum software would allow it, I'd give that piccie dozens of Likes! Please can you give her some fusses from me? :) (Wish we still had the cat_pet_icon.)

I hope she likes the Nature's Menu food. It's good stuff. I look forward to hearing how she gets on with it.

It's a good idea to mix in some extra water with the wet food for urinary tract health. If she needs tempting with the wet foods, it can help to blitz up some freeze-dried treats (e.g. Cosma Snackies) in a food processor or blender and sprinkle a teensy bit of the powdered protein treats on top of the wet food - bit like seasoning on human food.
 
Thanks Phlika, I'll take your advice bout changing insulin if her numbers don't improve. Applaws Tuna & Chicken & turkey I think.

Thanks Critters Mom, good idea about adding water etc to her food.
 
Saoirse developed urinary tract problems in the past (another problem caused by dry food, I now know) so I'm very keen to make sure she pees enough. Ironically, after the oceans of water she drank/peed pre-Dx, when she changed to wet food she stopped drinking from her water bowl completely. So did my civvie.
 
Critter Mom, I've noticed Squiggles is drinking a lot less since she's been on insulin.

She was a little monster this morning, she hid under the hedge out of the rain & wouldn't come inside, & when she finally did & I gave her the insulin injection, she wriggled so much, half of it was wasted :(
 
Hi Lynn,

The reduction in polydipsia and polyuria (excessive drinking and peeing) are very positive clinical signs that Squiggles BG numbers are improving. If you want to keep an eye on how much water she is drinking, you can measure how much is in her bowl every time you change the water. See the link to Secondary Monitoring Tools in BJ's signature for great tips and techniques. If adding water to food, I find it is useful to use a cook's tablespoon measure. I feed Saoirse meals of about 16-24g in size, and I add about 1-1½ tbsps of water to each meal.

Keep an eye on the avoidance behaviour and record it. It might be an indication that the Caninsulin isn't agreeing with Squiggles. Saoirse used to try very hard to hide at injection time when she was being given Caninsulin. By way of comparison, she felt much better on Lantus and while she didn't enjoy the Lantus injections (Lantus can sting) she didn't go out of her way to try to avoid them. Keeping a log of odd/avoidant behaviours as well as BG data can be invaluable in building a case for getting an Rx for a different insulin under cascade rules in the future should a switch be necessary.
 
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