Cat food low carb, but still turned diabetic?

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Tara & Buster

Tara & Buster

Member Since 2012
Hello, I'm new to the diabetic kitty world. I am reading and reading all the posted information and I have learned a ton about the foods and their pros/cons. Fantastic information! However, I am puzzled...

My kitty, Buster, is about 12 or 13 years old. He was not overweight when diagnosed and now he is underweight by about 3 or 4 pounds. I originally had him on Royal Canin SO for crystals. My vet startd out simply adding insulin to the SO, and only feeding canned but he wouldn't regulate. Now he's on the Hill's W/D. I have read Janet & Binky's page and lots of other very good information so I understand he really doesn't need the prescription food for the crystals or the diabetes - just a good, high protein canned food. So, my confusion is that the canned food table lists Urinary SO as being 4% carb calories and the Hill's W/D is at 25%. How did my kitty get diabetes on the lower carb food? Now I'm confused that he's on the HIGHER carb food w/insulin and he does in fact seem better overall but he didn't get better on the insulin and the lower carb food? confused_cat

I am very interested in changing his diet, but I'm a bit lost. Also, I was uneducated when Buster was diagnosed so I immediately put him on insulin. Now I'm nervious about changing the diet too quickly without adjusting the insulin dose. He still isn't regulated, but he is better. I am not quite ready for home testing - I understand the benefits and will probably start up soon. Baby steps to the home testing...I know it has to be done.

I am so glad there are places like this to help with such a seemingly complex issue!

Thank you!

Tara & Buster Boo
 
Welcome!
Yes diabetes is very complex but also very doable! I also believe there are many reasons why humans and animals get diabetes, not just diet related. BUT if you cut out most of a cats carbs it does help their blood glucose numbers.

What insulin are you using? do you test before you shoot? Most of us feed canned food under 10% carbs, some of us under 5%. Fancy Feast pates, Friskies pates, check Blinky's list. Food is part of the diabetic equation but there are many parts, which is why you test and keep records and play detective.

The most important part is the testing before each shot. You should not be shooting blind .... we have had people shoot into a low # and cause a hypo. Testing should be #1 on your list, especially before you change food. Let us know what kind of insulin you use, how much and what scares you about testing, we have all been there, trust me!
Nancy and Payne .....
 
I believe the information on Janet & Binky's page is outdated. Mars bought Royal Canin and changed many of the formulas. They added corn flour (carbohydrates) to the urinary SO formula. Here is a link to newer information: Royal Canin Feline Urinary SO. If you click on the nutrition link and scroll down to "metabolizable energy", you will see that the canned SO is 18.4% calories from carbs. Not as high as the WD, but still higher than you would want for a diabetic.
 
We're currently on Lantus @ 3.5 units every 12 hours. Last time he was at the vet for a curve he never dropped below 400 at 3 units. I don't know how that's possible, as I had him on 3 units the week leading up to that and it seemed like he got too low a couple times.

I am currently shooting blind, and I give him a high protein snack every 4 or 5 hours because I'm afraid he'll drop too low. He is very hungry all the time. The W/D is for cats that need to manage their weight and my guy is underweight. I would rather feed him something in the normal calorie range. My worry is that I work all day so I wouldn't be there to monitor him if I did a diet change without correctly lowering the insulin - just too risky.

And so...I will go pick up some home testing equipment tomorrow and see what happens. I can't imagine he will sit still for them, but we'll have to practice. If I have treats anywhere within a 5 mile radius he goes bonkers! Once I get the hang of that I'll look into how to do the diet change. Is there anything I can safely do in the meantime to help him be less hungry?
 
Yes, it's very important you're testing and lowering the dose as you change the diet to low carb. Most cats on a low carb, canned diet do not need much more than 1u of insulin. If he's underweight, you might want to feed a high calorie food like Wellness or EVO to get some weight back on him. Both have high calorie, low carb canned options. Hill's W/D is really bad for diabetics--there is no Hills food that is appropriate for a diabetic cat. Cats that are properly hydrated because they are eating a canned only diet rarely have crystal issues--the cause of most UT issues is the chronic dehydration from dry food. The prescription foods that alter urine pH are treating a symptom (alkaline/acidic urine), but not the underlying problem that causes the alkaline/acidic urine (chronic dehydration).

With Lantus, you want to get at least three tests a day--once before each shot to make sure it's safe to give insulin, and then one test about halfway through one of the cycles, but any more random tests beyond that you can gather are very helpful. That's because dose adjustments with Lantus should be based on the nadir (the lowest number of the cycle), which usually occurs about 6 hours after the shot. When Bandit was on insulin, I worked a full time job with a two hour daily commute (which meant going home to get the mid-cycle test on my lunch break was impossible), a part time weekend job, and I was going to grad school. The way I managed to get the necessary tests was to test at 7am (shot time) before work, test at 7pm (shot time) when I got home from work, 10-11pm (bed time for me), and then I would set an alarm to get the 1am test (Bandit's nadir) each night, and go right back to bed. Yes, it was a pain the first week or two while my body adjusted, but it really wasn't a big deal, and that little bit of effort paid off big time in reducing my fear of a hypo incident. If you are dosing Lantus properly according to the protocol it's very unlikely a severe hypo incident will occur. It also allowed me to get my cat in remission (there is an 84% remission rate when the protocol is followed), which is far less effort and work than having a cat on insulin.

I also did a curve on the weekends during the day when I was home.

Vet curves are completely unreliable. When cats get stressed out, their blood sugar can raise by quite a bit, which makes the numbers the vet is using unreliable because they are inflated. Also, vet curves are too infrequent to know how the insulin is actually working in the cat--when a cat is on too much insulin, numbers will stay as high or go higher because cats' livers dump glucose in their bloodstream to counteract low numbers. You need daily tests to really see what's going on, just like diabetic people on insulin. I know home testing seems like a lot of work right now while you're learning, but it is really, really easy once you get used to it! And there's a ton of tips and info here to help you out with any problems you might have. :smile:
 
what is the high protein snack you are feeding? Just because it's high protein does not mean it is high or low carb - depending on what your intent is.

Cats can get diabetes for many reasons, food just being one cause. For example, was your cat ever given steroids? If yes, that could be another cause why he got diabetes.
 
Julia you are truly a trouper! I think I can get 3 or maybe 4 tests in per day if I can figure out how to do all this. Thank you for the food advice - I was pondering the Innova EVO. That 84% success rate is very encouraging, too!

The treats I have are freeze dried turkey or chicken - just one ingredient. Sometimes I toss in a small amount of dry W/D. Usually he's pretty ravenous at snack time which kind of scares me. I can't really know what's going on until I start testing.

Tara & Buster
 
O - btw, Buster has never been given steroids. I think one time he had some antibiotics years ago and other than that he's just been on what I now know is crappy food. So annoying that the food industry is more out for money than our pets' well-being cat(2)_steam
 
While you're getting the hang of glucose testing, the additional monitoring tools link in my signature may be helpful, especially urine testing for ketones. There are much less precise than blood glucose, yet still can clue you in to the level of control you are achieving.
 
The dry W/D is 37% carbs :shock: A few pieces of that is guaranteed to shoot up a diabetic cat's blood glucose level. Please stop feeding it. The freeze dried treats are just fine :smile: If your cat likes crunchies, you can buy low carb crunch treats such as Poultry Crispies.

How many meals are you feeding your diabetic? Unregulated diabetics are always hungry so they should have access to small frequent meals. Most people here use a programmable timed feeder so their cats can have mini meals throughout the day.
 
Rgr Squeem - no more dry W/D for snacks. I am essentially feeding him 4 times a day. I will use canned food for the extra feedings instead of the dry.

This is really hard for me to wrap my brain around the concept that a food specifically designed for diabetics is still high in carbs. Just doesn't seem to make any sense whatsoever.

Tara & Buster
 
Tara & Buster said:
Rgr Squeem - no more dry W/D for snacks. I am essentially feeding him 4 times a day. I will use canned food for the extra feedings instead of the dry.

This is really hard for me to wrap my brain around the concept that a food specifically designed for diabetics is still high in carbs. Just doesn't seem to make any sense whatsoever.

Tara & Buster
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The W/D is actually a REALLY old style of 'diabetic food' that vets used to use. My old vet put my Cuddles on that, but that was in 2002, 10 years ago! It's high in fiber, but obviously for cats, the high protein/low carb does better for carnivores. (High fiber helps human diabetics.) They actually have a DM food that's way lower in carbs (but still higher than wet food) than the W/D. Just use the food charts, and get familiar with them. I used them SOOO much when we first started, and now I can pretty much look at a food & know if it's low enough in carbs. (most of the meat, pate foods) I don't have a diabetic anymore though, so it's not AS important as to how high/low the carbs are between the wet foods.

IMHO, there's no real reason to use W/D (or most of those prescription diets). Most health issues can be taken care of by giving a species appropriate diet.. which is raw food, or canned food. I have a cat that was so morbidly obese, the shelter was going to kill her (& she couldn't even clean her own butt).. they had her on R/D.. a 'diet' food. I took her in, fed her wet Friskies food, and she's lost 9 lbs, and is a healthy, loving kitty!
 
My vet gave us the choice of Purina DM or the W/D. Since Buster isn't picky, she recommended the W/D because it was better equipped to help prevent struvite crystals. As I understand it, he should be fine as long as I stick with canned food. I just need to make the transition to a better food. Would it be a good idea to feed something like Fancy Feast for every other feeding or maybe half/half as I get started on home testing, or should I wait until I have a consistent baseline?

Tara & Buster
 
Tara & Buster said:
My vet gave us the choice of Purina DM or the W/D. Since Buster isn't picky, she recommended the W/D because it was better equipped to help prevent struvite crystals. As I understand it, he should be fine as long as I stick with canned food. I just need to make the transition to a better food. Would it be a good idea to feed something like Fancy Feast for every other feeding or maybe half/half as I get started on home testing, or should I wait until I have a consistent baseline?

Tara & Buster
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IMO, you shouldn't keep giving the same dose w/o hometesting, and changing the food. When you transition him to the low carb food, he'll need less insulin. I've sent a message to Lizz, since she lives in Chandler. I used to, but moved recently, so I'm not as close as she is. Do you need help learning to hometest? Lantus people will be able to help you better as to dose, etc.. I know they like to start low & go slow (SLGS) with increases. If you start your cat on low carb wet food, I'd lower the dose to NO MORE than 1 unit. They may want you to go even lower.. but it would really help to know what your kitty's BG (blood glucose) number is before shooting the insulin. Anything under 200, and you shouldn't give insulin until they do go up above 200 (at least at first).

Cuddles passed in '07, so I feel like I can't help or give much advice, because I haven't used any of the insulins used now. Humulin U hasn't been made in years.. and that's what we used. I do know that once I switched her diet from the W/D to low carb wet food, she didn't need insulin anymore! So hometesting is REALLY important to know how high/low your kitty's BG is..
 
I haven't started the home testing yet so I don't know what I need or what he needs...yet. I am picking up supplies tonight after work. Is there another place where I should be talking to people that use Lantus?

Tara & Buster
 
Sorry.. hope you found the forums you need! I haven't been on here very often, so not sure if anything has changed. You can post in the Lantus forum, or also here in the Health forum. Just try to make your subject descriptive as to what you need help on. ;-)
 
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