Cat bolting around then grooming = feline hyperesthesia?

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Jem813

Jem813

Member Since 2015
My social life has been kind of quiet lately, and Natasha and I are often sitting around looking at each other. I started to notice some strange behavior, even out of the ordinary for Natasha, who frequently lies in wait for imaginary mice near the hot water heater, or admires her pedicure for hours.

The first time I saw her alternately bolting around, twitching and grooming , I immediately thought is this another hypoglycemic symptom? But no her glucose was not anywhere near low. Thinking then it must be somehow fleas (although she is an indoor cat), I took her to the vet and got some Paradyne, which is supposed to be the best (i.e. the be$t) flea treatment since cats have become resistant to the other brands, etc.

I saw nary a flea (she is white) but the behavior continued, so today I was bored and googled "cat running around then grooming", and the internet delivered videos of cats with "feline hyperesthesia" doing exactly that, just like Natasha! So of course my next stop on the internet is FDMB, and I search here, and feline hyperesthesia all over the place.

You would think Natasha would be a basket case, what with urinary crystals, diabetes, and now possibly hyperesthesia, but she is actually the most calm kitty most of the time, and friendly. She had worn off some fur by her ear with repeated grooming (also a symptom), which got treated on the same vet visit with antibiotics (since it looked a little infected) and that has since cleared up.

It doesn't seem to happen after her shot of Lantus, as some people have indicated on this forum, but is instead kind of random. I'm going to chart it on her spreadsheet to see if I see any patterns. It's mild and she doesn't seem to get too freaked by the apparent kitty hallucinations she's experiencing, so I don't think she's in any kind of danger.

All I can guess is this might be the first indication of neuropathy due to the diabetes, which I hope it's not. Others suggest it's due to dry skin, but her coat looks OK, and no kitty dandruff. Does anyone know anything else about this syndrome?
 
"Noting that affected cats tend to be dominating rather than submissive, some research argues that FHS is conflict displacement in which the cat acts out thwarted territorial disputes on its own body."

Another words, it's anyone's guess.
 
My diabetic cat Max is a stubby Manx, and has seizures and hyperestesia behaviors since we got him. The previous owner (he was 2 at the time) said he's always had it. The hyperestesia behaviors, rolling skin, biting the floor or air, stereotyped grooming, and eyes going everywhere, can get worse when there are fleas or mites, so ruling out that is first thing. Selamectin is usually really effective at getting rid of them, but may require 2 doses due to eggs. Other sorts of stimulation can set it off too such as itchy skin or petting certain areas.

The hyperestesia is usually considered benign by vets, and for the most part it is if it's an occasional thing. If it's frequent, however, some cats do progress to full blown seizures if they are not treated. Also, the behaviors seem to bother the cat at times. If they are grooming to the point of self injury that can be a problem as well.

Treatment includes reducing triggers such as fleas or touching that triggers it, and adding an anti-seizure medication. The medication can have some side effects, so it's not always needed in mild cases.

Um... there's no way that hyperestesia is a psychological issue, Max looses bodily control at times during his episodes and falls off things, or bites me or himself, which is not in character for him at all. It's a neurological issue, probably related to spinal reflex seizures or possibly partial seizures.
 
Jem813 said:
The first time I saw her alternately bolting around, twitching and grooming...
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That 'bolting around, twitching and grooming' behaviour can certainly be caused by fleas. It's happened to one of mine who was extremely sensitive to flea bites.
I also wonder if it can be brought on by acute pain episodes. A foster kitty I had recently had a history of similar behaviour until he had a fragment of metal removed from his back leg. He'd suddenly jump up or take off like something had just stung him, and he'd search the floor looking for 'the culprit'. The behaviour stopped after the metal fragment was removed.

But I wouldn't rule out hyperesthesia just because it doesn't necessarily happen after your kitty's Lantus shot. A member here had a kitty who had Lantus-induced hyperesthesia and the symptoms could come on at any time during the insulin cycle (if I recall correctly....). She saw a huge improvement after switching to Levemir. I'm gonna tag her for you, @KPassa , but she's not on the forum much at the moment so if you don't see her commenting on this thread it may be worth sending her a private message.

Really hoping your kitty feels better soon. :bighug:

Eliz
 
Mogmom and Goofus said:
My cats do this all the time, none of them have fleas and only one has diabetes. I think they do it because it's fun..... :cat:
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I've had cats that do this too...perfectly normal one minute and acting a total fool the next....Nothing wrong with them either!! I'd just say "Watch out...the cat's on a freak out"!

A few minutes later I'd get a look like "what are you looking at woman?" and a saunter into another room to resume napping.....LOL
 
My Bella cat did this the other day, but turns out she had a poop hanging out of her bottom by a hair.
UTI also comes to mind. Where does she focus her grooming immediately after the running around? Always the same place, or different places?
 
What's a "social life"? :D

I've been wondering if medication perhaps would be good for Luna and/or Mushu. Luna's got severe food behavior problems and Mushu is just plain weird. He'll sit in the litter box for hours licking and scratching the walls, and also bite-licks himself and others.
 
The lantus definately was a trigger when we were at a higher dose. He seemed to have more seizures as well when on the lantus vs. the levemir. Any stimulus to the back/flank can trigger these episodes. When it is a trigger that is avoidable/removable that's great. Max has seizures just because of the vibrations of walking too fast or jumping too hard sometimes. He also can't walk correctly because of a shorter spine, so he bunny-hops.
 
pevsfreedom said:
What's a "social life"? :D

I've been wondering if medication perhaps would be good for Luna and/or Mushu. Luna's got severe food behavior problems and Mushu is just plain weird. He'll sit in the litter box for hours licking and scratching the walls, and also bite-licks himself and others.
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Based on my recent experiences, I am scared to try any strong anti-anxiety prescription meds on diabetic cats (esp if they have even a tiny bit of neuropathy). Might be worth trying something like Xylkene first. I've heard several vets say it takes the edge off without causing loopiness in most cats.
 
SpecklesandMe said:
Based on my recent experiences, I am scared to try any strong anti-anxiety prescription meds on diabetic cats (esp if they have even a tiny bit of neuropathy). Might be worth trying something like Xylkene first. I've heard several vets say it takes the edge off without causing loopiness in most cats.
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What happened when you used it? I wasn't really considering it but the thought has been entering my mind.
 
Meya14 said:
The hyperestesia behaviors, rolling skin, biting the floor or air, stereotyped grooming, and eyes going everywhere, can get worse when there are fleas or mites, so ruling out that is first thing. Selamectin is usually really effective at getting rid of them, but may require 2 doses due to eggs. Other sorts of stimulation can set it off too such as itchy skin or petting certain areas.
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My vet is having me apply the flea medication monthly during the summer, so she will be getting her second dose next week. I have 6 months here!

Thank you for your informative post. This behavior seems common here on FDMB, although from what I've read, true hyperesthesia is rather rare in cats. I wonder if it's more common in diabetic cats (a type of neuropathy) or if owners of diabetic cats are just used to studying their animal's behavior for signs of hypoglycemia and notice these things more.

I didn't notice it until just recently. I read that in diabetic people, hyperesthesia precedes neuropathy so that's pretty scary, but on a veterinary site (Cornell University) they say that most vets consider it a benign condition.
 
Elizabeth and Bertie said:
Really hoping your kitty feels better soon. :bighug:
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Thanks! I think she's doing fine mostly, I just got her a small rug which she loves to curl up on, and maybe that will help since we are all hardwood floors and tiles here. At work we call it "enrichment". I can't imagine her environment being more calm or regulated, so I don't think it's stress, but who knows what demons possess her.
 
Fiona and Sasha said:
UTI also comes to mind. Where does she focus her grooming immediately after the running around? Always the same place, or different places?
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She's had a vet visit and no UTI that they can find. She's also had thyroid tests just before being diagnosed with diabetes and they were negative. She always grooms the flank, and quite suddenly after the twitch/dart phase, which is apparently a stereotypy of this hyperthesia condition. It's almost as if she's embarrassed by her darting about and is trying to change the subject to something more mundane. "Just grooming, just grooming..."
 
pevsfreedom said:
What's a "social life"? :D

I've been wondering if medication perhaps would be good for Luna and/or Mushu. Luna's got severe food behavior problems and Mushu is just plain weird. He'll sit in the litter box for hours licking and scratching the walls, and also bite-licks himself and others.
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I know that cats have a natural instinct to dig at litter, walls, floors etc after they use the litterbox and my cat extends her litter digging to the walls so much so that most of the time she is pawing at the walls instead of the litter! Not very efficient, but I think it is something she needs to do.

I wonder if we don't project the OCD symptoms too much on cats. Some behaviors we might think OCD in people might be normal for cats? Or at least not harmful.
 
Elizabeth and Bertie said:
But I wouldn't rule out hyperesthesia just because it doesn't necessarily happen after your kitty's Lantus shot. A member here had a kitty who had Lantus-induced hyperesthesia and the symptoms could come on at any time during the insulin cycle (if I recall correctly....). She saw a huge improvement after switching to Levemir.
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Meya14 said:
The lantus definately was a trigger when we were at a higher dose. He seemed to have more seizures as well when on the lantus vs. the levemir.
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This makes sense to me. Since Lantus creates a depot when it's neutralized perhaps the Lantus depots create an irritant similar to flea/mite irritation. Then it would make sense that Levemir would NOT cause such a reaction since no SQ depot.
 
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There's still a subQ depot with levemir, the difference is that lev is a neutral pH and lantus has an acidic pH. The lantus can sting quite a bit and that irritation can last for a while, which can trigger ongoing episodes.

It's mostly benign but not completely. Self mutilation can be a factor even in mild cases. Severe cases can progress into grand mal seizures or epilepsy, but usually there's an underlying factor. The behavior seems to perpetuate itself as well, so interrupting it by stimulating the cat in other ways helps reduce it.
 
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pevsfreedom said:
What happened when you used it? I wasn't really considering it but the thought has been entering my mind.
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Well, with Xanax and any other med that can have neurologic side effects, it can make the neuropathy worse while the cat is on the med. Youtube some videos on cats on Xanax (and remember that most of those guys don't even have neuropathy before they take it). In our case, it made him not able to hold himself up in the litterbox (caused poo smearing) and he was almost falling over all the time. There are prob other meds with less side effects, but it might be better to try something like Xylene or Cholodin first, with the okay of your vet (they are not prescriptions).
 
A very good med for neuropathy, and hyperestesia is gabapentin. It raises the seizure threshold so the hyperestesia behaviors are less common, and it also reduces the discomfort if neuropathy is an issue.
 
You might try some 15-20 minute active play sessions twice a day to make life more interesting.
 
Meya14 said:
There's still a subQ depot with levemir, the difference is that lev is a neutral pH and lantus has an acidic pH. The lantus can sting quite a bit and that irritation can last for a while, which can trigger ongoing episodes.

It's mostly benign but not completely. Self mutilation can be a factor even in mild cases. Severe cases can progress into grand mal seizures or epilepsy, but usually there's an underlying factor. The behavior seems to perpetuate itself as well, so interrupting it by stimulating the cat in other ways helps reduce it.
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Interesting. So when people see hyperesthesia in cats 10h post injection, it's because the Lantus is still acidic? I thought it was neutralized by the body and fairly quickly formed a neutral, insoluble ppt depot that was subsequently slowly released! This sounds terrible. Please don't tell me that this very expensive insulin is creating acid depots that stick around until the effect wears off. People use this? Yikes.

Also, I was under the impression that Levemir was absorbed fairly quickly from the injection depot into the bloodstream where it binds albumin, and the depot effect actually mainly occurred as Levemir slowly dissociates from albumin, but in the bloodstream, not from the SQ fat. Am I completely wrong on this?
 
Lantus injection does neutralize after injection, however, with max I still noticed the skin rolling and him trying to lick his scruff a few hours after injection. Because the behaviors seem to self perpetuate, I'm not sure that it was the lantus still stinging, or a reaction from his behaviors hours earlier. When the lantus neutralizes in the subQ tissue, crystals are formed, which could also possibly irritate.

Levemir has 2 mechanisms for it's time release. One is the protein binding in the blood, the other is a self-attraction that delays the release from the subQ site and slows down absorption into the blood, so some does remain in the tissue.
 
Meya14 said:
Lantus injection does neutralize after injection, however, with max I still noticed the skin rolling and him trying to lick his scruff a few hours after injection. Because the behaviors seem to self perpetuate, I'm not sure that it was the lantus still stinging, or a reaction from his behaviors hours earlier. When the lantus neutralizes in the subQ tissue, crystals are formed, which could also possibly irritate.

Levemir has 2 mechanisms for it's time release. One is the protein binding in the blood, the other is a self-attraction that delays the release from the subQ site and slows down absorption into the blood, so some does remain in the tissue.
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I somehow don't think the Levemir depot would be an irritation if it's soluble and neutral, but I guess it's possible, each cat is different and might have some sort of immune response. But Levemir is pretty much all in the bloodstream by 10h post injection (I'm just saying 10h because I noticed the hyperesthesia then). On the other hand, some Lantus depot could still be sticking around, but I would hope the Lantus would be neutralized by then. Might sting going in, but 10h out?

I'm going to ask the vet about Levemir if Lantus is ever a problem, but so far I'm pretty satisfied with the glucose control. I'm not looking for perfection, just no bouncing around wildly. Hard to tell quite yet. And of course if it ever seems like she has some bad reaction to Lantus, Levemir would be worth looking into. So far the hyperesthesia seems pretty mild.

Thanks for your informative post.
 
Elizabeth and Bertie said:
But I wouldn't rule out hyperesthesia just because it doesn't necessarily happen after your kitty's Lantus shot. A member here had a kitty who had Lantus-induced hyperesthesia and the symptoms could come on at any time during the insulin cycle (if I recall correctly....). She saw a huge improvement after switching to Levemir. I'm gonna tag her for you, @KPassa , but she's not on the forum much at the moment so if you don't see her commenting on this thread it may be worth sending her a private message.
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A bit late to the party but yes, Mikey definitely had something going on for the year and a half he was on Lantus. The closest description would be feline hyperesthesia (I describe it a bit here). After switching to Levemir a year and a half ago, within the first few days, I noticed an immediate difference in symptoms. Within a couple of weeks to a month, all symptoms were completely gone.

There are a few others who have noticed similar changes in their cats after switching. @MommaOfMuse also has a kitty that had a complete difference in temperament after switching as well (she describes it in that same Think Tank thread I linked above). It's not that common but it is common enough that it might be worth it switching insulin to see if it helps (depending on severity of symptoms). The good thing is that Lantus and Levemir are very similar in action so you don't have to entirely relearn the wheel. Also, not to sound biased (even though I am), but most everyone I know who has switched to Levemir has been much happier with the results. ;)
 
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SuePea said:
We always called it "going on a tear" or "having the fuzzies".
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Haha I like it. I think it's more like that for Natasha because I can call her and snap her out of it. It's especially cute when she "goes on a tear" and involves her stuffed mouse in the fray.
 
We had a cat who would suddenly jump up from wherever she was sitting and making a "brrp" sound and then run off like someone was chasing her. Then she'd stop and groom herself. We always said she must have been late for an appointment in another room!
 
It just rained here so it's a lot cooler and I'm witnessing some pretty fierce fuzzies right now, and some rolling around with upside-down gazes my way, like she's trying to get me away from the computer. I haven't heard any "brrp" sounds...that's pretty bizarre. Could it be something like this? (from Wikipedia)

Chirr[edit]
The chirr or chirrup sounds like a meow rolled on the tongue. It is used most commonly by mother cats calling their kittens from the nest. It is also used by friendly cats when eliciting the approach of another cat or a human. Humans can mimic the sound to reassure and greet pet cats.[4]

Cats sometimes make excited chirping or chattering noises when observing or stalking prey.
 
The first time I saw her alternately bolting around, twitching and grooming

Have you had a thyroid panel run recently? When Squeaker began with wild bursts of energy it turned out to be hyperthyroid. Just another option for you to consider.
 
Anitafrnhamer said:
The first time I saw her alternately bolting around, twitching and grooming

Have you had a thyroid panel run recently? When Squeaker began with wild bursts of energy it turned out to be hyperthyroid. Just another option for you to consider.
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Yes that was ruled out when she got diagnosed with diabetes. I was kind of wishing it was just thyroid since it's totally treatable.

I just checked her weight and she's gained back a pound in the past few months, yet she's eating less since I started her on 4 small meals (vs 2 large) so maybe she is utilizing her calories better.

Julie
 
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