Cassie 11/9-10; 3 am thoughts; advice?
- Thread starter bookw0rm
- Start date
- Status
Rob & Harley (GA)
Very Active Member
Re: Cassie 11/9-10
Interesting data is right. Lets see how it shakes out.
Interesting data is right. Lets see how it shakes out.
bookw0rm
Very Active Member
Re: Cassie 11/9-10
If he keeps having the late drop and low PMPS, I"m thinking of modifying my approach. Instead of shooting .3u at 3 am when he's 300+, I'm thinking of trying .2 then. If he doesn't go as low on the AM shot, he should level out and go back so high for the morning shot (I think). I thought about this last night but didn't trust myself to decide at 3 am.
Does this make any sense?
Of course, today's the day I won't be able to get many mid-cycle numbers to see what happens, but I suspect he's doing the same weird up/down wave during the day when I'm not testing as I'm seeing in the afternoon/evening. I hope this means he's getting some pancreas action, but it's hard to tell. In the afternoon, he gets fed at shot time. He's then been shooting up at +5 (keep in mind he's been running low 200's for PMPS lately), then back down by +8. He gets fed then, and shoots back up by +12. The problem, of course, is that I'm still feeding 3x/day, but shooting 2x/day, so food and shot time don't match up easily any more. The last couple days I've been only giving 1/4 of a can at PM +8 and the rest at shot time.
I will try to do a curve at some point this weekend to try to figure out what he's doing on BID. It looks weird from the numbers I'm getting. It may not be +12 to +12, though--maybe +6 to +6. Should still give a good idea what's going on.
If he keeps having the late drop and low PMPS, I"m thinking of modifying my approach. Instead of shooting .3u at 3 am when he's 300+, I'm thinking of trying .2 then. If he doesn't go as low on the AM shot, he should level out and go back so high for the morning shot (I think). I thought about this last night but didn't trust myself to decide at 3 am.
Does this make any sense?
Of course, today's the day I won't be able to get many mid-cycle numbers to see what happens, but I suspect he's doing the same weird up/down wave during the day when I'm not testing as I'm seeing in the afternoon/evening. I hope this means he's getting some pancreas action, but it's hard to tell. In the afternoon, he gets fed at shot time. He's then been shooting up at +5 (keep in mind he's been running low 200's for PMPS lately), then back down by +8. He gets fed then, and shoots back up by +12. The problem, of course, is that I'm still feeding 3x/day, but shooting 2x/day, so food and shot time don't match up easily any more. The last couple days I've been only giving 1/4 of a can at PM +8 and the rest at shot time.
I will try to do a curve at some point this weekend to try to figure out what he's doing on BID. It looks weird from the numbers I'm getting. It may not be +12 to +12, though--maybe +6 to +6. Should still give a good idea what's going on.
C
Carl & Polly & Bob (GA)
Guest
Re: Cassie 11/9-10; 3 am thoughts
Lisa,
I'm still trying to wrap my head around the timing of everything....
You are shooting at 3 am and 3pm now, right?
And he gets "dinner" at the 3 pm PS time, and another "snack" at 11 (+8). When does he get his third feeding?
I think what you said in the above post is logical and right, but I want to be sure I understand the feeding times before I can make sense replying! ;-)
Carl
bookw0rm said:
Lisa,
I'm still trying to wrap my head around the timing of everything....
You are shooting at 3 am and 3pm now, right?
And he gets "dinner" at the 3 pm PS time, and another "snack" at 11 (+8). When does he get his third feeding?
I think what you said in the above post is logical and right, but I want to be sure I understand the feeding times before I can make sense replying! ;-)
Carl
C
Carl & Polly & Bob (GA)
Guest
OK, so he eats at AMPS, but not much, only a 1/4 can. That's at 3am.
Then he eats "brunch" at 7am (+4). 1/2 can
Another 1/2 can at PMPS at 3pm
Then a 1/4 can at +8 at 11pm.
So,
With everything else being equal, you would expect him to not have any food in his system at 3 pm, since it's been 8 hours since that half can brunch. So no food upping his PMPS number. And he pretty much hoovers it down, so it would be upping BG for a couple hours until the shot kicks in, probably around +2 or +3. His night cycle "should" be normal and his day cycle should be wonky, BUT HE DOESN'T AGREE WITH ME!
So you should see a rise between PMPS and say +3, then a drop to nadir (around +6?). After that, a couple hours after nadir, he eats, so he should rise pretty quick since the insulin is wearing off as the food goes down. Then no food till AMPS, but also nothing pushing his BG down till then.
At AMPS, he eats a small meal, so the rise would be smaller and the insulin drop should be bigger during the "day time" cycle, but right about the time the insulin should be working well, he eats a larger portion. That food would be hitting him right about when he should be at the daytime nadir, so you shouldn't see a low nadir during the daytime cycle.
So as far as his food goes, the feeding schedule should be giving you a better nadir overnight than during the daytime.
OF COURSE, that's exactly the opposite from what you have seen over the past week! So, let's figure out why this is....
You can see that the snack at 11 PM looks like it pushes up his number from +8 to AMPS by only about 100 points. That's a 1/4 can. So, you would figure with a 1/4 can at AMPS, he'd only go up about 100 points from it. (Keep in mind, this is just logical math, not necessarily what really happens!). He drops about 100 points or less in the four hours after AMPS, then you feed him and he probably doesn't go lower at +6 because he's got 1/2 can of food stopping him. But yet he seems to defy logic, and drop from +4 to +12??? Except for yesterday and today, when he was "normal" and came up like logic says he should.
Here's what really stumps me - no way should he be climbing on his PM cycle. I don't see that it can be a bounce from what happens during the AM cycle, because he isn't dropping steep or far.
Lisa, this makes no sense!
Here's what I think I would try.
In the AM, he eats small at shot time, and big at +4
In the PM he eats big at shot time, and small at +8
Can you switch the portion sizes in the morning, so that he eats 1/2 can at shot time and only 1/4 can at +4? I think it might improve his daytime nadir a little, because it would reduce the amount of food that is fighting the insulin once the insulin kicks in. That might make his PMPS reading make more sense too.
What's anyone else think?
Carl
Then he eats "brunch" at 7am (+4). 1/2 can
Another 1/2 can at PMPS at 3pm
Then a 1/4 can at +8 at 11pm.
So,
With everything else being equal, you would expect him to not have any food in his system at 3 pm, since it's been 8 hours since that half can brunch. So no food upping his PMPS number. And he pretty much hoovers it down, so it would be upping BG for a couple hours until the shot kicks in, probably around +2 or +3. His night cycle "should" be normal and his day cycle should be wonky, BUT HE DOESN'T AGREE WITH ME!
So you should see a rise between PMPS and say +3, then a drop to nadir (around +6?). After that, a couple hours after nadir, he eats, so he should rise pretty quick since the insulin is wearing off as the food goes down. Then no food till AMPS, but also nothing pushing his BG down till then.
At AMPS, he eats a small meal, so the rise would be smaller and the insulin drop should be bigger during the "day time" cycle, but right about the time the insulin should be working well, he eats a larger portion. That food would be hitting him right about when he should be at the daytime nadir, so you shouldn't see a low nadir during the daytime cycle.
So as far as his food goes, the feeding schedule should be giving you a better nadir overnight than during the daytime.
OF COURSE, that's exactly the opposite from what you have seen over the past week! So, let's figure out why this is....
You can see that the snack at 11 PM looks like it pushes up his number from +8 to AMPS by only about 100 points. That's a 1/4 can. So, you would figure with a 1/4 can at AMPS, he'd only go up about 100 points from it. (Keep in mind, this is just logical math, not necessarily what really happens!). He drops about 100 points or less in the four hours after AMPS, then you feed him and he probably doesn't go lower at +6 because he's got 1/2 can of food stopping him. But yet he seems to defy logic, and drop from +4 to +12??? Except for yesterday and today, when he was "normal" and came up like logic says he should.
Here's what really stumps me - no way should he be climbing on his PM cycle. I don't see that it can be a bounce from what happens during the AM cycle, because he isn't dropping steep or far.
Lisa, this makes no sense!
Here's what I think I would try.
In the AM, he eats small at shot time, and big at +4
In the PM he eats big at shot time, and small at +8
Can you switch the portion sizes in the morning, so that he eats 1/2 can at shot time and only 1/4 can at +4? I think it might improve his daytime nadir a little, because it would reduce the amount of food that is fighting the insulin once the insulin kicks in. That might make his PMPS reading make more sense too.
What's anyone else think?
Carl
- Status