Carbohydrate content of Catzfine foods?

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Julie and Alice

Julie and Alice

Member Since 2014
I wonder if anyone would know what the carbohydrate content of Catzfine food is please?

I have been feeding Alice Hills D?M since her diagnosis of diabetes nearly 2 months ago. She is not keen on it but it is supposedly low carb. I have tried two other foods now. Ropocat, which she loved but upset her bowels and now Catzfine which again she loves and seems to be tolerating, although only used it for 2 days in small amounts mixed with the Hills' D/M. I have been thinking I have been giving fur shots and loosing confidence (not that I've had much re the insulin shots!). I now think that the Catzfine has been causing a large food spike. Does anyone know how the Catzfine compares to the Hills Diabetic D/M please?

This is the content of Hills:

CANNED HILL’S DIABETIC D/M

CHO 3.9% as fed
DRY MATTER CHO - 15.7%

Ingredients for above: Pork liver, maize starch, Cellulose, soyaprotein, animal fat (probably chicken), Minerals, vits, rice flour, amino acids, taurine.

many thanks,
Julie
 
Take a look through this thread and see if its in there.

Otherwise you'll need to contact the manufacturer for the as fed values.
 
Hi Julie,

My recollection is that the Hill's food is about 14% calories from carbs. All the Catz Finefoods are lower than that, some considerably lower. They also have a reputation for being made from really good stuff; no rubbishy fillers, no soya etc.

I think all but one of the Catz Finefoods are <10% calories from carbs. I think the one with rabbit in it is slightly higher though. (Will check that later this morning). Meanwhile you may find this handy little online calculator useful for working out the carb content from the label. You put in the figures for %'s of protein, fat, fibre, ash and moisture; click 'calculate', and you get a % of calories from carbs figure in the turquoise box on the lower right.
https://secure.balanceit.com/tools/_gaconverter/

BJ is right; it can be necessary to contact the manufacturer if you want to check what is actually in the can at any given time. Most European food labels give 'typical analaysis' though, which I understand is more reliable than US labelling.

It might be that there is something else in the food that has affected Alice. Have you started to work out what it is that she is sensitive to?
Or maybe there was another reason for the BG spike..?

ETA: Just looked at Alice's SS and wonder if that .5 dose you gave on the 5/5 may have caused the insulin depot to drain and cause those high numbers (or that plus a bit of a bounce from those blues....?)

Eliz
 
Oh...and regarding giving the shots; it's quite easy to lose confidence pretty quickly if there are a couple in close succession that haven't gone well (been there, done that!). But equally, it's entirely possible to regain confidence just as quickly.

When you give the shots are you keeping the syringe in the skin for a few seconds before removing it? Initially I hated giving shots and always rather rushed them. I just wanted it 'over'. But these days I make sure I count to 5 once the syringe is in the skin; and I take that time to make sure that I do have the syringe in the right place, and to check that I have pushed the plunger down completely. By doing that I can be fairly confident that the insulin has gone into the cat.

I seem to recall that Juliet (Dr Schrodinger) also had problems initially with giving shots. And her cat Milo, like your Alice, was underweight (but he also has an awful lot of fur!). It might be worth your PM'ing her to find out how she overcame her initial problems...?

Eliz
 
Hi Julie,

All of Catz finefood will be lower in carbs than the Hill's DM (DM is 17.5% by calories, if I recall). The figs I calculated for all the flavours (about one year ago) are below. I should really look at the cans & see if they have changed them at all. Some of the values come out as a negative number, which indicates to me that the 'guaranteed analysis' figures are not really accurate, so they should only be used as a guide, rather than 'hard-and-fast' values.
I feed my cats CFF (amongst many other brands), and they seem to love it (and then they go off it....and then they love it again....and then they refuse to eat it....and then they'll only eat that one...etc etc...)

Nr. 3 Poultry 2.8
Nr. 5 Salmon -2.4
Nr. 7 Veal 2.4
Nr.9 Game 2.4
Nr.11 Lamb & Rabbit 9.2
Nr.13 Hering + Crab -5.2
Nr.17 Poultry + Shrimp 4.8
Nr.15 Chicken & Pheasant -5.2
Nr.19 Lamb + Buffalo 2.4
Nr.21 Game + Redfish 2
Nr.23 Beef + Duck 1.2
Nr.25 Chicken + Tuna 2

Have a look at the spreadsheet in my signature for other options too. This week, mogsters are currently eating (Butcher's) Classic Cat. Not the best quality food, but it seems to be easy on the tummy, as well as the wallet.

You could also try Kattovit? It's a kind of recovery-type food with a consistency similar to the MD (with similar ingredients - without the starch), but has 9.5% carbs by calorie. I have just ordered more from Zooplus, as they make a variety suitable for both renal sufferers and diabetics.

With regards to fur shots - it's frustrating, isn't it? It's a LOT easier to give a fur shot on a skinny cat. When you tent the skin, or hold it between your fingers, there's not much of a target to aim for, and it's easier to make the mistake of pushing the needle straight through the other side. :shock: :o How are you holding the syringe? I found that if I held it like a pen or a dart between my thumb & middle finger, then I could depress the plunger gently with my index finger & hold it in place for a few seconds.

I also learnt that it was easier to simply grasp Milo's scruff without 'tenting' it. By just holding a fold of skin between my thumb & middle finger of my left hand, I could move all his fur out of the way with my index finger to make his skin more visible. The needle was then pushed into the skin at 90 degrees (needle perpendicular to surface of skin fold) and I was less likely to *ahem* go all the way through...

Which needles are you using?

Juliet

cat_pet_icon
 
I am so sorry. I will respond later. I am just so upset at the problem of giving insulin & seeing Alice so lethargic because of the high sugar . It seems every shot now is a failure & I just hate it. Just given another shot that I'm unsure about. I seem to feel some pressure against the finger I'm holding the skin with as I push plunger. I feel sick to the stomach. I appreciate your posts very much thank you & will digest when I've calmed down :cry:
Julie
 
Hi again!
Sorry, was feeling upset and grieved at my utter failure to inject Alice correctly & the fact that she is being left untreated for hours at a time. I thought I’d failed the night shot tonight too but thankfully it seems not! I was a nurse years ago & so gave probably thousands on injections to people without any trouble but this furry creature defies me! Anyway, thankfully tonight’s jab seems to have gone in as had a drop in blood sugar at last. Also it didn’t help that my husband didn’t leave food down during the day (I was working) as he said her sugar was high! the problem is she then wants to eat alot nearer to her shot time. I like to always leave just a little down.

With the carb readings would that be ‘CHO as fed’ (wet) or would they be ‘Dry matter CHO’. Hills told me that the dry matter is the important one.

It was actually the lamb & rabbit Catzfine I tried on Alice so it looks like that’s the higher carb one that they do. The link from BMJ mentions 11% carbs (thanks BMJ) for the Rabbit & lamb Catzfine. Would that be dry matter? Or ‘as fed’? It seems to be a German company and I cant see a contact number for anyone in the UK. Unfortunately Alice seems to be sensitive to fish and also chicken. She is ok with lamb. I tried to get some rabbit from a link Eliz gave me but they had none in stock. To be honest I wouldn’t know what to do with it. I would like a simple recipe to make my own, bearing in mind that she has IBS & sensitivities. I did try to find a recipe but it mentioned grinding bones & that they seemed to get stuck in the cats mouth unless they were ground again. I would love her on a diet that is healthy and that she enjoys.

Thanks for the list of Catzfine food too Juliet. Perhaps I’l try the lamb & buffalow and beef & duck next. What is the ‘Nr. mean infrom of the number?

I did try fiddling with Alice’s fur while she was on my knee, she didn’t mind! It did feel a bit odd but will try with the next jab. I really think I am going to have to shave her though & hopefully she may fatten up a bit & make it easier. What is the reason for keeping the needle in the skin after you have injected by the way?

I have already fallen asleep twice while writing this. Better get some sleep as work again tomorrow. @-)
 
Juliet,

Sorry, just remembered you asked what kind of needles I use for Alice. They are BD Micro-Fine + Demi. Is that what you would recommend? They are certainly less vicious than the old Caninsulin ones.

Juliex
 
Oh, I do feel for you, Julie!
I tried to write a soothing message to you last night, but my phone was playing silly wotsits. Sorry.

So glad you got a drop in BG! It went in! Yay!

The needles you are using are probably the best you can get, and since you have a history in nursing, you'll know everything else. It's just applying it to your sweet kitteh that is the tricky part!

RE: CFF - I think the lamb & buffalo flavour might go down well with a lamb-loving cat. My Lola (no-diabetic) loves it. It is quite high in fat too, so will help her bulk out a bit (if she likes it!).

The 'Nr' you asked about means 'number' (german abbreviation).

Yes, Hill's are correct to a certain extent. Once the % carbs in dry matter are known, the % carbs by calorie can be estimated.

The % values I gave you are percentage calories by carbohydrate. Once you have the % carbs in dry matter calculated, you then calculate the % calories that the cat gets from protein, fat & carbohydrate, and it is this figure of % calories from carbs that has the 10% threshold.

(Oh Juliet, you could have explained that a little better :roll: ) I hope that was understandable?

As for leaving food out for her to graze on, I don't see why you shouldn't. She needs to put on weight, and if her BG drops quickly, she will automatically want to scoff something...as we all do...

Juliet

cat_pet_icon
 
Julie I just want to say you are doing a great job its all about baby steps. This is such an awesome site and so many angels here to help us we are so blessed to have FDMB.
Now I will tell you when I first started with Trey back in 2010 I hated needles I was a chef by trade and was not sticking needles in my cat. Well 2 weeks of hubby trying and telling Trey how sorry he was for doing this while I was here reading and posting. Then it happen he had to leave for 2 days and I was stuck holding the needle. You know what I talk to Trey and told him why we were doing this and took a lot of deep breaths and pokes that ear gave chicken for treat. Trey was calm in fact he would be on his towel waiting for his poke so he could eat. Two months later he was OTJ but he was my cat follow me everywhere ...use to be DH cat 4 years later and we had to come back but hoping only for a short time before he heads to the falls.
They know you only want to help them but if you don`t tell them they don`t understand why so talk to your baby. Even while you are sticking that needle into her fur tell her just as you tell you patients.
I always would leave food out for Trey always can pate sometime if I was away for 8 hours I would put frozen stuff down so in a few hours when it would be fresh.
You nurses are so funny you can do anything to your human patients but when it come to your furbabies you get all worked up ;-) my sister in law is the same.
Heres wishing you a great new day with tons of healing green light surround you and you baby. Peace and Angels are with you dear!!!! o:-) Kath
 
Hi & thanks!

Well, as for the carbs - I'm lost on that too. I am extremely sleep deprived so that's my excuse. So I need to work out the dry matter carbs to then calculate the cals per carbs? I just had a look at the calculator Eliz gave a link for but unfortunately there is no info in English on the canned food I have to input into it. Yes, I know :roll: ! Maybe I'll try and convert it later when awake. There actually isn't any info on the Royal Canin at all, even the diabetic one. I see the cals per gram of protein, fat and carbs.... enough for one night! confused_cat

Well, many thanks for your sympathy. I have not felt this wound up for as long as I can remember. I just hate it when I can't master something (jabs)- especially when it should be so simple and it being so important for my poor pussy.

Well I think I made a little progress tonight. My hubby went and bought a heavy duty shaver yesterday but it looks vicious. I tried to break Alice in by giving a bit of lamb (her only treat) and then switching this thing on next to her. It is so noisy and vibrates, it scared me more than her! I then tried to shave her with a disposable razor - it didn't even comb the fur :lol: Finally armed with some scissors & Alice on my knee, I managed to slowly clip her fur close to the skin - without nipping her! This suits me fine as I have a love of clipping hair - even my own!! All 3 of us on all fours tonight, with my hubby giving me a helpful commentary, "Don't pull up the tent too far, hold it at the top, needle slightly angled down...." Hey presto - I KNOW I got it in tonight!! dancing_cat About to do Bg now so will learn if its another night on the tiles.... I do hope not.

Tried to order the Buffalo food (who would have guessed I'd be ordering buffalo a few months ago!) will have to do by phone though as couldn't log in.

Bg surprisingly high again :? ie 19.2 @ 2.5 (PMPS 16.1) . I just don't get it :!: I do not understand - we are both pretty sure the insulin went in and she hasn't eaten much either, less than usual & the same Hill's D/M. I guess this is the wrong place to mention under the Carb title.

Just thought - do you think the insulin is going off?? :?:

Many thanks for the support.

Juliex
 
If the cat has been diabetic for a while, the insulin pulling down the glucose may trigger compensatory hormones to release glycogen, a form of stored sugar. That gets converted into glucose and voila! You get high numbers. We call this a bounce.
Also, if the insulin pulls down the glucose rapidly it can cause a bounce.

There is also the possibility of a fur shot where all or part of the insulin did not get injected, and not arriving at the optimal dose yet. It can take some time to establish that even when you are being diligent in testing.
 
Thanks BJM,

Alice doesn't seem to be bouncing at the moment but seems to be remaining in high figures. I'm fairly certain the last two shots went in - easier to see since cut fur! We don't seem to be getting the same effect from the insulin that she had previously. Beginning to wonder if she has an infection. She had antibiotics about 8 weeks ago.

Definitely guilty of giving fur shots! Could that possibly be why her sugar is still high? Hoping she will soon turn the corner.

Juliex
 
The Lantus Tight Regulation protocol does let you increase after every 3 days with nadirs that are high. And if high enough (>300 mg/dL) you may increase by 0.5 units rather than 0.25 units. You have to get those nadir tests to do it, though and some folks can only do that on weekends, or by setting an alarm in the middle of the night.
 
Julie & Alice just sending tons of healing green light so she can make her way to the yellow/blue soon Hugssssssssssssssss Angels around you to help Kath
 
Julie and Alice said:
...I just had a look at the calculator Eliz gave a link for but unfortunately there is no info in English
on the canned food I have to input into it.
Click to expand...

Hi Julie,

For German cat foods the analysis (analytische) percentage figures are written on the can thus:
Protein %= Protein % ( :smile: )
Fat/Oil % = Fettgehalt %
Fibre % = Rohfaser %
Ash % = Rohhasche %
Moisture % = Feuchtigkeit %

These are sufficient to get an approximate 'calories from carbs' figure. It's not necessary to do the dry matter thingy as well.

Eliz
 
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