Caninsuline (Vetsuline) or Humulin 30 (Mixtard 30)?

Status
Not open for further replies.
mihaelamiha

mihaelamiha

Member Since 2012
Dear all,

I am new on FDMB and struggle o solve an issue. I should decide if I choose to use Caninsuline or Humulin 30 for my diabetic cat (are the available (PZI is not available into my country) and recomanded by my vet insuline). Already try for 2 days Caninsuline and we discover the 8 hours courve after that the insuline go up tp 500.
What do you suggest or recommand?
With best regards,
Mihaela confused_cat
 
What country? We have had some members, for example from Turkey, able to get human insulins that are used for cats. Lantus and Levemir are the human ones that have had good results in cats.

The other part of the this equation is food. It is possible to regulate some cats on Canninsulin (more so than Humulin); it is just harder than the milder, longer lasting insulins. But they all do best on wet low carb foods rather than higher carb dry. What foods are available in your country and what are you feeding.
 
Thank you for your prompt reply.
I am from Romania, I know that my vet use also Lantus for other cats, but she did not recommand it in my case.
In term of food I have did my homeworks: my cat eat wet food (MD) or other low carb food prepared by me (e.g smashed turkey meat with a zucchinni).
 
Good for you on the food! I wonder why your vet is reluctant to use Lantus. Is there some specific reason she thinks your cat would not do well on Lantus? It is highly recommended by vets and has a good success rate. Here's one of the studies done in Australia:

http://www.uq.edu.au/ccah/docs/diabetesinfo/link4.pdf

In our experiences with hundreds of cats, we have found there are very few cats that do not do well with it.
 
hm not really sure why your vet doesnt think your cat should use lantus but if Mixtard 30 is the same thing as Humalog 70/30 then it definitely should NOT be used for cats.
Maybe your vet is not aware that Mixtard 30 is not available anymore? I found this when googling.
http://www.iddt.org/news/withdrawal-of-mixtard-30/nearest-equivalent-insulin-to-mixtard-30/
http://dtb.bmj.com/content/48/8/85.full
and anything 70/30 is NOT good for cats.
Please talk to your vet again about Lantus (aka Glargine) Levemir is a human insulin made by the same company that makes the Mixtard 30 (NovoNordisk) so maybe your vet can look into that if it is an issue of availability.
 
Thank you for your replies, were very helpfull to clear my thoughts.

I will ask my vet why is she do not recomand us Lantus, it seams that Mixtard 30 is available in Romania.
Meanwhile, I will stay on Canninsulin.
 
Are you testing at home? Particularly with a harsh insulin like Canninsulin, it is important to get an accurate picture of how the insulin is working. We think curves done at the vet are not as accurate as those at home. Stress can raise glucose numbers, in some cats hundreds of points, and most cats are very stressed at the vet.

So we test our cats at home using human glucometers. If you like, we can teach you how over the internet.
 
I am testing him from few months, we tried to establish his glucose number only be food, and was not a succes and we are here now. It is good to do not feel alone, me an my husband are doing all our best in order to put the cat back on a quality life.
I draw a chart for every shoot his is receiving, and I note all the number from glucometre.

Thanks.
 
Wonderful! So glad you are testing.
We have this great Goggle document that is color coded and will convert from your metric to our numbers. It is a great tool for you and your vet, and for us if you want dose advice.

First, sign onto Goggle. Then go to this google document:

https://docs.google.com/templates?q=fdm ... iew=public

Choose Use this template.

After you add your numbers, go to the RH side and choose Share. Then Share with Anyone with the Link. Then copy the url on that page to your favorites. It is yours only to edit. If you go over to the LH side of the page and choose File, then Publish and Publish to the web, the url that comes up is the one that you can share with us.

It's a little tricky. If you need help, just ask.

We can help so much better if we can look back and see what doses gave what kind of results.
 
Thank you again, I will share the numbers, I will announce you as soon as I will upload them.
For the next 5 days I will be abroad, I do not know if I could update the numbers, but I will uploaded when I will come back. My father is taking care of my cat meanwhile.
We just started the insuline, so at the beginning 2 ui or 1 ui (depend of the pre testing) will be all, I think.

But WHY is better the Caninsuline to Humulin?
I have been told that caninsuline has a rush hour, the nadir after 6-8 hour (also the case of my cat) then an increase speed of numbers.
And about Humuline 30 that has a longer lasting period, isn't better for the cat to have smoother variation? Humuline 30 is available in Romania.
 
I haven't used either Humulin or Canninsulin (Called Vetsulin in this country) but we get more Canninsulin users as it is one of the few insulins available in the UK. And some of them have been able to regulate their cats on Canninsulin. I have never heard of the Humulin your vet is suggested. Did you look at the links Lisa gave you?

We are more familiar with Lantus and the cats here have been very successful using it, so we go with what we know works. I would be interested in why your vet does not want to use it.

This page (the topics at the top of the page) has information on both the Humulin we are familiar with and Canninsulin (Vetsulin) and how best to use it in cats. It is fairly outdated info. As I said, we just don't get many owners who use those two insulins anymore.

http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewforum.php?f=19

Yes, your spreadsheet does work. Your cat is getting a longer duration than we usually see with Canninsulin; does he usually go up rapidly for the +12, because the mid cycle numbers don't look bad. I wonder what his numbers are like overnight and whether the cycle looks different.
 
I think I was misleading you, I am having a hard time this days, with a lot happening...
I have updated the file with all the figures and a little and recent history of wrongs.
I Romania, there are no good vets, especially for diabetics felines, I succeed in find a universitary teacher, vet 1, actually the best, whom I trust very much.
We went to her when the cat was 300-350, but she tried to establish the glycemia with pills and diat. Starting August she was on holliday and my cat went to 400-480. We went to a vet center 2, where they determined me to leave my cat and they start the canninsuline: there were good results, also wrongs.
They start to administrate insuline 13 pm 01 am, (the bill was outrougeous), I call at them during the night for high figures and they told me to administrate the dose (at 9 hous). My cat did not feel well, no eating etc.
Then I come back to vet 1, talk to her by phone and she advice me about humulin, 7 am 7 pm administration, diabetics minerals, etc. And now he is on humulin and much better condition (eating, walking, etc). I know that vet 1 administrate Lantus to other cats, cats that did not answer well to Humulin, I am waiting for her return in order to check this things.
Also:
In Romania, no vet insuline is imported, canninsuline is brought from Hungary, not directly imported. Remain the human insuline that are available on market, and Humuline 30 is, but also Lantus.
Now, I take step by step, reading, talking to you. Also leave abroad for 5 days and I will be in touch with my father and my vet 1 and I hope that things to be better.
Thank you again for your support,
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc ... li=1#gid=0
 
Hi,

On Humuline, for the first week, quite steady values around 400, on 2 unit each time allocated. I understand that for the first weeks 2 unit is a good start, probably the dose will increase if not lowerin the value.

Mihaela
 
What are you feeding your cat? Dry kibble foods are almost always VERY high in carbohydrates and that can make the blood glucose extremely high like that. We feed low carbohydrate canned or raw food here - hopefully someone can link you to the international food charts as I don't have them on hand.
 
Welcome, Mihaela

It is very important to get the food to good low carb canned or raw. And cats really don't need zucchini in their diets - they are carnivores. For some great information on diet go here: Cat Info.
 
Hi,

I have an appointment to the vet on Friday and I will ask about Lantus.
Currently, my cat is eating only wet food - MD and food prepared by me (little raw also). In terms of food on market I admit that I do not know very much, but I have wrote down the names to look for them into the pet shops.
 
About food:

I found "Schesir" label with good food combination, most protein, did somebody try it?. Also my cat is borred by MD, and I read the linked documents and try to find alternative food on local market. (I did not know that wiskas has a good reputation).

Mihaela
 
Hi,

Today I have feed him with Renal (8% carbs), previous days was MD (14%) and the numbers has lowering from 400 to 350 to 270. Also I have lower the dose. Could this lowering be possible only because of the food?
Thanks,
Mihaela
 
Absolutely - the lower the carbohydrate calories, the less insulin may be needed.

Making progress!
 
Hi,

I went to vet and we have discuss about food and insulin type. My vet admit that food is the key and we were both very optimistic seeing the latest BG results. I hope that in few months my cat will remit.
Regarding insulin, Lantus, she will recommended in case Humuline (Mixtard) is no working; Lantus is stronger and in case that the cat do not respond well to Lantus, no other solution (even stronger insulin type) could be found. The vet had best result and regiments in case of Humuline. Also, every cat could react different on different type of insulin. She saw also the BG figures and was very pleased about the results.
On Caninsuline she did not have best result, let put this way, but depend of how each cat react.
By the way, there are statistics about regiments from different type of insulin? it would be interesting to find out.
I thank you all for your support, for valuable information that you share and for your indications. In Romania there are not very much info on this subject and I am very grateful to you [It happened to find put that I am the only one person located in Romania and registered to FelineDiabetes site].

Mihaela
 
Hi,

It have been a while, time that I spent letting things to normalize. For me, it does not look perfect the BG's, but trying to normalize. Meanwhile I have encounter other problems too:
1. Hunger - very hunger at the beginning. 2 month ago the cat was on dry food, then 1 month ago on wet MD (14 % carbs) and now with maximum 10% carbs wet food. I read on forums and I took Sue (thank you Sue) advice to mix the food with some warm water, and it works. Also I feed him a little more than usually. The situation seems improved.
2. Poop (only, ok consistency (sorry)) outside the litter box - this happen twice recently. I clean daily the litter box. I think it is because the diabetes, but I do not know how could I solve this issue. I appreciated your help.
3. Vomit - but good shape of the cat, playful, etc.
4. Currently discrepancy of the preshot BG - 200 - up to 400, I think that his pancreas is still working from time to time (when 200) and hope to be better.

Mihaela
 
Sue and Oliver (GA) said:
Good for you on the food! I wonder why your vet is reluctant to use Lantus. Is there some specific reason she thinks your cat would not do well on Lantus? It is highly recommended by vets and has a good success rate. Here's one of the studies done in Australia:

http://www.uq.edu.au/ccah/docs/diabetesinfo/link4.pdf

In our experiences with hundreds of cats, we have found there are very few cats that do not do well with it.
Click to expand...

Dear Sue and all,

I do research on net about Lantus, do you have knowledge about more recent studies (2011,2012) for use of Lantus on cats? Or other reports, such the follow of the cats that have been treated or remitted using Lantus? I will meet my vet and try to expose her evidences of benefits for Lantus. It is very hard for me to take a decision of changing insulin to Lantus without vet support and approval.

Thank you for your help,
Mihaela confused_cat
 
Hi Mihaela
my cat was on Humulin. He is diet controlled now (with all protein wet food) but when he was on Humulin he always got fairly big changes in BG
Have a look at his chart (see link below) if that is any help. I found studying other people's charts very informative when Akbah was still on insulin.
 
Thank you,

I saw your chart and is quite impresive, your cat was normalized in 2 months actually, you started with 3 unit (we are at 2 units top, but my cat is slimmer - 4.6 kg). I hope to be ok.

Mihaela
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top