Cancer question (Amos GA)

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davect

davect

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Well, looks like Andy's civvie brother Amos has abdominal cancer (carcinomatosis). My vet did recommend an oncologist, but I think it's too late (not eating, refusing meds, not grooming, weak, etc). I'm real close to making the final decision for the poor thing. I understand treatments for animal cancers are largely ineffective. Has anyone with a cancer kitty had a good outcome with treatment? I have a consultation with the oncologist tomorrow but I feel it's just going to be a waste of time and money...
 
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There are cancer kitties here We're not one of them but I just wanted you to know you and Amos are in my prayers.
jeanne
 
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Welcome back, Dave. I am so sorry to hear about Amos. I don't have any good outcomes with cancers in my cats to share with you. May you trust yourself with the decisions you have to make, and know that Amos will love you whatever you decide.
 
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You can also meet with an oncologist and talk about palliative treatments. My Sophie was diagnosed late in the game for any major treatments, but prednisone was simple and gave her a couple good months before she stopped having a good quality of life here. You know your cat so trust your heart. My thoughts are with you.
 
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Thanks for the chart Gia. That's helpful. We have to work on the hunger and hydration issues. Although Amos will drink some water on his own he is very dehydrated. And although he seems to have an interest in food and may taste it or lick it he won't actually eat it. It's very discouraging.

K. Sya: He's on Prednisone, but he spits out the pills when I'm not looking because he's sneaky and I'm a terrible pill-giver. Might try the injections. Will also ask the oncologist about draining some of the fluid in his abdomen.

In no way do I anticipate finding a cure, but I do want to keep him as comfortable as I can. He does still have an interest in looking at the birds outside and will go to the door if hears people outside my apartment. As sick as the little guy is he still has some interest in the world around him (hence my hesitation to put him to sleep right now).

On the bright side, Amos's brother Andy (the diabetic one) who had a couple of near-death DKA issues in 2003 & 2005 is regulated for the most part and is doing just fine!
 
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Have you tried Pill Pockets? I never really had to give Sophie her pills, I just put them in front of her and she gobbled them down...almost right up to the end. That was one of the ways I knew she was getting tired of fighting because she lost her enthusiasm. If injections are available that could work too.
 
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I think the visit with the oncologist will give you a better picture on what to expect. I got a 2nd opinion from one as well. of course I did not get the news I was hoping for but it did help me better deal with what was going on. There are so many different kinds of cancer so the oncologist may tell you what the best course of treatment is, whether it be pallative or something else. And will probably give you a prognosis and things to look for. I really hope you have a lot of quality time left with Amos.
p.s-caner sucks!
 
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davect said:
Thanks for the chart Gia. That's helpful. We have to work on the hunger and hydration issues. Although Amos will drink some water on his own he is very dehydrated. And although he seems to have an interest in food and may taste it or lick it he won't actually eat it. It's very discouraging.

K. Sya: He's on Prednisone, but he spits out the pills when I'm not looking because he's sneaky and I'm a terrible pill-giver. Might try the injections. Will also ask the oncologist about draining some of the fluid in his abdomen.

In no way do I anticipate finding a cure, but I do want to keep him as comfortable as I can. He does still have an interest in looking at the birds outside and will go to the door if hears people outside my apartment. As sick as the little guy is he still has some interest in the world around him (hence my hesitation to put him to sleep right now).
!
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Winnie had lymphoma, a short course of chemo(unlike most cats she did not handle it well )But it must of knocked the snot out of her cancer. When she passed 5 years later at 19+ it was not from lymphoma. It never came back.
on the other hand, my civie Wolfie, at age 19, developed 2 kinds of aggressive cancer, and because of various other health issues and age, we elected palliative care( put him on high dose dex, pain meds, etc..). He was seen by an IM specialist.(no onco here)

It is one of those ECID things. It gave me a peace of mind to know what was going on and what options were available. I think keeping the appt sounds like a good idea.

As for meds -- yes try the injectable pred if you can. and if the cancer is aggressive, ask about using dexamethasone instead of pred ( starting w/ a loading dose) That can be injected as well if you don't want to pill. besides the pill pockets that have been suggested have you ever tried a pill popper/pusher? they can work wonders.
If he is licking food, but spitting it out, that indicates nausea and /or pain. I would talk to the onco about treating those.

best wishes for Amos' appt. please let us know what the onco suggests.
 
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Saw the oncologist today and paid $400 to have him tell me what I already knew! The only treatment available has a 50% chance of extending life 6 to 9 months and costs around $500 every three weeks. With that cost/benefit ratio it is not fair to me or Amos to go forward with it. We're just going to go with sub-q fluids and prednisone (injected today) to keep him comfortable.

Thanks for the input everybody.
 
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When Tucker is in pain he sits in the meatloaf position, on his belly, legs tucked under him, like an Egyption Sphynx statue, sort of. Sometimes he doesn't want to eat and occasionally he'll get agitated if I try to pick him up, since he's FD I can also tell by elevated BGs. When that happens he gets an injection for pain and perks up pretty quickly.
 
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davect said:
tuckers mom said:
Would pain meds help too? I'm sorry that you're going through this with your kitty.
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I really don't know if he's in pain or not...
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Any medical condition that would cause pain in humans will cause pain in animals.
Sometimes the only way to know( since cats hide it so well ) if and how much pain your animal is in is to try a course of pain medication. If they perk up, you know. Since Amos is licking, but not eating food that *could * be from nausea and/or pain.
( or some combination and to note: pain can cause nausea) I would talk to your vet about pain treatment as part of his palliative care. Buprenorphine is commonly used to treat pain in cats.

I would also ask about other palliative care measures -- treating nausea,if it is present, for example. ondansetron is a very safe and good med to use for cats. ( generic pills are also inexpensive) there is an injectable form as well.

Another item to discuss -- depending on how your cat is feeling, is increasing the steroid dose or switching to a more powerful steroid. Most cats handle steroidsYou have decided to treat for quality of life, not longevity, so the usual concerns ( developing diabetes, liver issues) do no apply.

Here is an article on hospice care for you. At the bottom of the article are links for other sites and groups that offer help with this type of care. The argus institute is one I am most familiar with.
They focus on all aspects of palliative care for both your cat and you /your family.
http://www.myevt.com/story/veterinary-h ... cus-living

I am glad to hear you were able to get Amos a shot of pred.
I found a link on the VASG(veterinary anesthesia and analgesia support group) web site that discusses ideas and help with administering meds to cats. It takes special note methods that will keep your cat from becoming wary of you due to giving medication.

http://www.vasg.org/long_term_cat_meds_ ... ration.htm

They also offer great information on their site about pain management.

I am sorry Amos is so ill. I hope he has many more happy cat days with your dedicated care and love.
 
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Sorry, Dave, to hear your kitty has the dreaded C. We also faced that with Yoshi and saw an oncologist who said he couldn't tell how large his adenocarcinoma was unless he did surgery. We opted for that. Who knows if we had had discovered it sooner Yoshi might have been around a lot longer. But when the surgery to remove the mass was done, the surgeon called to say it was invasive and had spread to surrounding organs. We opted to not have Yoshi wake up. No regrets on finding out what we were dealing with to help make decisions. However, knowing what we now know, I think we'd take the route you're taking if in that situation again. Will be thinking of you in the days ahead.
 
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Thanks everyone. I think it's about time to let Amos go to the rainbow bridge. Fluids and Prednisone don't seem to be making him feel better. He looks miserable, just lays down with a blank stare and has difficulty walking. I was sort of hoping he'd just slip away in his sleep, but I guess I'm now in the unpleasant situation of trying to make that decision for him. I know it's probably best but I can't seem to pick up the phone to make his final appointment with the vet.
 
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((((Dave)))) Maybe it will help if you focus on the fact that making and keeping a vet appointment is a gentle gift to Amos for all the years you two have loved each other. It sounds like he wants to move on, but needs help to do it.
 
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Oh ((Dave)) It really is an awful feeling to have to decide when, but you are doing it with love. I know the 2nd opinion did not give you more insight but at least you know you did try everything you could. Sorry nothing seems to be helping, not sure if pain meds would help. But you know Amos best and will do what is right when the time is right. Again, I am so sorry.
 
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I too am saddened by Amos' condition. It is always hard to make that last vet appointment. Do what is right in your heart.
 
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Dave, I am so very sorry you lost Amos and you have my heartfelt sympathy. I pray he passed peacefully at home and that Andy is doing okay with the loss of his buddy.
 
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Hope + (((Baby)))GA said:
Dave, I am so very sorry you lost Amos and you have my heartfelt sympathy. I pray he passed peacefully at home and that Andy is doing okay with the loss of his buddy.
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Thanks. I had him put to sleep at the vet's office. I would have much preferred a natural passing at home, but it was definitely time. He did go very peacefully with no drama. I actually feel kind of bad for my vet. It was his birthday and Amos was his last patient of the day! Thanks Dr. Sitinas. I owe you one.
 
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((((((((((((((((((((((((DAVE))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

Wrapping you in many cyber hugs. I am so very sorry for your loss. Amos is flying free now, whole and healthy over the Rainbow Bridge rb_icon
wings_cat
 
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Dave, I am very sad to read that it was time for Amos to leave you.
You took great care of him and made sure that you did all you could do. ...... including helping him leave his worn out body.

(((((( Dave )))))))

fly free dear Amos. wings_cat

with sympathy,
 
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Dave, I am so sorry it was Amos's time to leave you. Be at peace and know in your heart that you made the right decision by setting him free. I am sorry for your loss
 
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