CAN AN ABRUPT SWITCH FROM PROZINC TO LANTUS BE MADE?

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KUMA CAT

KUMA CAT

Member Since 2015
My cat has been on Prozinc (2 units morning; 2 units evening) for his newly diagnosed diabetes, for two months. His blood sugar was still at 430 at last check. I am wondering if Prozinc may not be the right insulin for him. Can an abrupt change from Prozinc to Lantus be made, or do you have to go down and start back up slowly if making the change?

Do some cats simply not respond to Prozinc insulin, but do respond with Lantus?
 
Frodo was on Prozinc for a couple of years and I switched him to Lantus. That morning he had his 2 units of Prozinc, he had a vet appointment a few hours later, which is when I picked up the Lantus. That evening he was received 2 units of Lantus instead of his normal 2 units of Prozinc. He seems to be doing better on the Lantus. (Frodo's spreadsheet is a few days behind) But I see way more blues than I was seeing. Frodo's SS looks a little weird as I have not figured out how to get good mid-cycle numbers when he is free fed can food. So if you look at his SS keep that in mind.
 
ProZinc is an "in and out" insulin...once it wears off, it's out of the body. Lantus is a depot insulin which means that even after 12 hours, there's insulin in the "depot" that's still carrying over into the next cycle.

You can switch from ProZinc to Lantus with no problem since the ProZinc will be gone by the end of the cycle, but ProZinc is a good insulin and 2 months really may not be enough time to really know if it's working for your cat or not.

Without seeing a spreadsheet that shows us what kind of numbers he's getting on ProZinc, it's really impossible for us to tell you if it's a good idea to change so soon. It really can take longer than 2 months to get some regulation.

Are you home testing? Do you have any test results that show how low the dose is taking him each cycle?

What kind of food are you feeding?

Lantus is expensive, so I'd suggest sticking with the ProZinc awhile longer and letting the people here who have lots of experience with it guide you. It may be working...It may not be...His dose may be too low...His dose may be too high....without knowing more about his numbers, it's impossible to say
 
Larry and Kitties said:
Yes, ECID (Each Cat is Different).
What are the current before shot BGs and what is lowest BG between shots?
I ask since maybe 2 units is too much
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Larry and Kitties:

My vet has not tested Kuma's blood sugar throughout the day. He only does a current blood sugar level once a month along with a fructosamine check. His blood sugar was 480 about a month ago, and it was still at 430 when I brought him in about 4 days ago. I am waiting for that latest fructosamine check to come back. I bought a blood glucose checker but was unable to obtain a drop of blood - I believe the lancet needle was too fine. I have now bought a thicker needle, hoping I can get a drop of blood from his ear. My vet did not think this type of checking was necessary when I showed him my little glucose checker and lancets, so I have not had much support in that area. I am not sure why that is. Kuma is also very sensitive to what I am doing and has tried to whip back around at me when I have tried getting a drop of blood from his ear, so I have not been able to closely monitor him at home. I give him his Prozinc shot at about 9:30 in the morning. The vet appointments he has had are about 3:30 in the afternoon (6 hours after his shot), and that is when his blood sugar tested at 480 and 430, so something is just not right.
 
Daily home testing of BG (blood glucose) is crucial when your cat is on insulin. Don't wait or depend on the vet to do BG tests. There is no need to do a fructosamine check. You can do the BG testing and curves at home, spare your cat needless stress and save yourself bundles of money. Plus, with home testing, BG #'s will likely be lower than vet readings especially if the cat is stressed.

My vet saw no need for home testing, put CJ on insulin and said to come back in a month for a BG recheck. But that sounded odd to me. The day I learned to home test, I learned CJ was hypo (BG too low). I saved myself and CJ a trip to the vet er and tons of money by getting help here.

What size lancet/gauge did you buy? Starting out with a 26 or 28 gauge is best. Which meter did you buy? It takes time and practice but it will get easier! Let us know if you need pictures of the "sweet spot" or tips for making it easier to draw blood.

And what kind of food are you feeding your cat? A low carb (under 10%) wet/canned food diet is important. See the nutritional guide in my signature line.
 
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KUMA CAT said:
My vet did not think this type of checking was necessary when I showed him my little glucose checker and lancets, so I have not had much support in that area. I am not sure why that is.
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It's a relatively common response from many members of the veterinary profession. Kuma's your kitty. You get to decide when to test him. Lots of us here have learned to smile and nod at our vets and agree to disagree. ;)

Kuma is also very sensitive to what I am doing and has tried to whip back around at me when I have tried getting a drop of blood from his ear, so I have not been able to closely monitor him at home.
Click to expand...

To help you with that, check out the link below:

Home Testing - Links and Tips (includes video tutorials)

It's a really good idea to give Kuma a treat every time you try to test him, even if you don't manage to get a successful test. Freeze-dried protein treats are great for this purpose, and they will help Kuma to see testing as an overall positive experience. Testing will get easier and easier, all going well. :) As you move to help Kuma into better BG levels, as he starts feeling better he will be able to recognise that all the peculiar testing-type activity had a lot to do with it. Kitties are smart. ;)


Mogs
.
 
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Cat Ma said:
Daily home testing of BG (blood glucose) is crucial when your cat is on insulin. Don't wait or depend on the vet to do BG tests. There is no need to do a fructosamine check. You can do the BG testing and curves at home, spare your cat needless stress and save yourself bundles of money. Plus, with home testing, BG #'s will likely be lower than vet readings especially if the cat is stressed.

My vet saw no need for home testing, put CJ on insulin and said to come back in a month for a BG recheck. But that sounded odd to me. The day I learned to home test, I learned CJ was hypo (BG too low). I saved myself and CJ a trip to the vet er and tons of money by getting help here.

What size lancet/gauge did you buy? Starting out with a 26 or 28 gauge is best. Which meter did you buy? It takes time and practice but it will get easier! Let us know if you need pictures of the "sweet spot" or tips for making it easier to draw blood.

And what kind of food are you feeding your cat? A low carb (under 10%) wet/canned food diet is important. See the nutritional guide in my signature line.
Click to expand...
 
Chris & China said:
Lantus is expensive, so I'd suggest sticking with the ProZinc awhile longer and letting the people here who have lots of experience with it guide you.
Click to expand...
Per 10 ml vial ProZinc is less expensive. However, a 10 ml vial of ProZinc only contains 400 units of insulin while a 10 ml vial of Lantus contains 1000 ml. Thus, it is not clear that Lantus is really more expensive.
 
Cat Ma said:
Daily home testing of BG (blood glucose) is crucial when your cat is on insulin. Don't wait or depend on the vet to do BG tests. There is no need to do a fructosamine check. You can do the BG testing and curves at home, spare your cat needless stress and save yourself bundles of money. Plus, with home testing, BG #'s will likely be lower than vet readings especially if the cat is stressed.

My vet saw no need for home testing, put CJ on insulin and said to come back in a month for a BG recheck. But that sounded odd to me. The day I learned to home test, I learned CJ was hypo (BG too low). I saved myself and CJ a trip to the vet er and tons of money by getting help here.

What size lancet/gauge did you buy? Starting out with a 26 or 28 gauge is best. Which meter did you buy? It takes time and practice but it will get easier! Let us know if you need pictures of the "sweet spot" or tips for making it easier to draw blood.

And what kind of food are you feeding your cat? A low carb (under 10%) wet/canned food diet is important. See the nutritional guide in my signature line.
Click to expand...

Cat Ma:

Thank you so much for your much needed help. I bought a glucose checker at Walmart called "ReliOn Confirm". The lancets inside the box were 30 gauge. I never was able to get a drop of blood with those lancets. I finally just bought some 28 gauge "FreeStyle" brand lancets, so am going to try again. I don't think they will probably fit into the ReliOn pen poker. The "sweet spot" is on the back rim of the ear, between the tip of the ear and the base, correct? Is it easier to simply take the lancet by hand to get the drop of blood? Does your cat jump or try to bite? Kuma is so aware of everything, and he is difficult to try to get blood.

I took all dry food away and am feeding only canned DM from the vet for diabetes, boiled chicken with no skin, and one other low carb high protein chicken canned food. Kuma was about 22 lbs. when he was diagnosed, but is down to 16 lbs. now, which vet said is perfect (he's a tall, big cat).
 
Be sure to warm his ear. That should help draw the blood up. We suggested a thinnish sock filled with raw rice and heated in the microwave until nice and warm.. Some people like to free lance; i liked to use the lancing devoice. You might try the meter and poke on yourself or someone else in your family first so you are confident before trying it on Kuma.

Without those mid cycle tests, you don't really know if the insulin is working. It could be that he drops low in the 5-7 hours after the shot and then bounces back up for the pre shot number. (Bouncing is when their body perceives a lower number than it is used to and releases extra glucose, causing the number to rise sharply.)

The protocol we put together for ProZinc is in my signature in blue.
 
Critter Mom said:
It's a relatively common response from many members of the veterinary profession. Kuma's your kitty. You get to decide when to test him. Lots of us here have learned to smile and nod at our vets and agree to disagree. ;)



To help you with that, check out the link below:

Home Testing - Links and Tips (includes video tutorials)

It's a really good idea to give Kuma a treat every time you try to test him, even if you don't manage to get a successful test. Freeze-dried protein treats are great for this purpose, and they will help Kuma to see testing as an overall positive experience. Testing will get easier and easier, all going well. :) As you move to help Kuma into better BG levels, as he starts feeling better he will be able to recognise that all the peculiar testing-type activity had a lot to do with it. Kitties are smart. ;)


Mogs
.
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Critter Mom:

Yes, I should get some freeze-dried protein treats to try to distract Kuma while I'm trying to get a blood drop. I've looked for treats, but all seemed so high in carbohydrates. What brand is a good one?
 
First, I want to say welcome to FDMB where an abundance of assistance is available to help you and your little one navigate this new challenge.

Learning to home test was challenging for me too when I first started, but ultimately it's the knowledge I got from the home testing that has helped me the most. Hang in there it does get easier. :)
Here's a few tips I learned that may help you:
1. Put about 1/4 of a cup of uncooked rice in a sock. Tie it off with some string, but be sure to leave some space for movement because you will be using the sock on the cat's ear to warm it up.
2. Heat the sock for about 16 seconds in the microwave. Test the sock on your wrist to make sure it's not too hot.
3. Massage the cat's ear with the heated sock. This helps blood come to the ear so you have a better chance of getting that elusive drop.
4. Perhaps at first get the cat used to having you do something with it's ear and after the massage, give a lo carb but more importantly a really yummy treat and let it go.
5. Try again later. Always give a treat when you try again. :cat: This makes it a much more pleasant experience for the cat and for you. :)

My cat has been tested so much recently that he thinks whenever the microwave dings he should come to be tested and jumps up on the table on his own.
It makes me laugh every time.

Please continue asking questions. This is a great place to find answers.
 
Jan Radar said:
My cat has been tested so much recently that he thinks whenever the microwave dings he should come to be tested and jumps up on the table on his own.
Click to expand...
Yay! Radar's gettin' with the program. :D

Saoirse used to know her testing schedule better than I did. She, too, would jump up to her testing station waiting for me to test her. I couldn't get over the way she would look up at me with eyes so full of trust, purring away as she did so. (((Saoirse)))
 
@KUMA CAT, when I first got on this board someone told me to put a dab of Vaseline or neosporin (the oily ointment, not the white cream) on the ear before you poke. That makes the blood bead up instead of spreading into the fur. I still do that and it was the difference between me being able to test successfully instead of endless poking and getting frustrated.

Also, remember to hold a tissue or cotton ball inside the ear. Otherwise you can poke through the ear into your own finger. I've totally done that. :)

Like @Jan Radar said, start rubbing Kuma's ears when you're just petting him, so he can get used to having his ears touched. My Marshmallow is a drama queen and she hated me messing with her ears. I began playing with her ears when I petted her, and now she's used to it. And the Pure Bites help. :woot:

I put the lancet into the device and then poke. I don't like clicking the device because I can't really see where I'm aiming. Try it freehand and using the lancing device. You'll find it does get easier as you develop a routine and you both get used to it. Good luck!!
 
granadilla said:
I put the lancet into the device and then poke. I don't like clicking the device because I can't really see where I'm aiming.
Click to expand...
Many lancet devices come with a clear cap that can replace the opaque cap normally installed. The clear cap allows yo to better see when yo are lancing.
 
I do my testing in a totally different location the big pad of the foot. Magellan totally wiggs if anyone plays with his ears, but his feet he could careless... Go figure every cat is different.
 
KUMA CAT said:
Cat Ma:

Thank you so much for your much needed help. I bought a glucose checker at Walmart called "ReliOn Confirm". The lancets inside the box were 30 gauge. I never was able to get a drop of blood with those lancets. I finally just bought some 28 gauge "FreeStyle" brand lancets, so am going to try again. I don't think they will probably fit into the ReliOn pen poker. The "sweet spot" is on the back rim of the ear, between the tip of the ear and the base, correct? Is it easier to simply take the lancet by hand to get the drop of blood? Does your cat jump or try to bite? Kuma is so aware of everything, and he is difficult to try to get blood.

I took all dry food away and am feeding only canned DM from the vet for diabetes, boiled chicken with no skin, and one other low carb high protein chicken canned food. Kuma was about 22 lbs. when he was diagnosed, but is down to 16 lbs. now, which vet said is perfect (he's a tall, big cat).
Click to expand...


I have the relion confirm and also had difficulty getting blood. I then got the freestyle 28 gauge ..they fit the relion. I finally was able to get blood. The larger gauge made all the difference. I use the lancet pen with the clear lid so I can see where I am going. She has gotten used to the click and it doesn't bother her at all now.
 
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