Cammy and SugarCat Syd

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Cammy

Cammy

Member Since 2022
Hi everyone! I’m Cammy. I’ve been dealing with diabetes management with Syd, my nearly 13-year-old, very slim buff-colored Tabby. He’s also a very, very special to me. I know you’re not supposed to have favorites (I do feral rescue and have 10 cats currently) but Syd and I bonded in a strong way when he came to me as a 6-week-old. Syd was not feral, btw.

We started 2022 with newly diagnosed diabetes. He was literally diagnosed the last day of 2021. He ended up in the emergency hospital with vet saying possible triaditis. After carefully nursing him back to a better weight of a little over 10 lbs (got down to 8.5) we’ve had a roller coaster ride regarding regulation. For a month in the beginning his sugar could not be controlled - vet said to give 4 units at the end but I had to transfer to a closer vet (I had moved but had driven back to Syd’s original vet when he got sick) and Syd’s numbers inexplicably improved when I transferred him to the closer practice. He became fairly regulated on 1.5 units of ProZinc. Both practices have recommended ProZinc.

Syd was good for a couple of months. Not great, but ok number-wise. Slowly the numbers crept up again. His blood work indicates he has had a bit of a bout with pancreatitis again recently. He did have an ultrasound in the early days - not much to see there.

We are again a bit out of control. The vet is going to take blood tomorrow to send to Michigan to see if the cause of his insulin resistance can be determined. I even wondered about acromegaly because his lower jaw seems to have widened a little, so we are going to test for growth hormone as well. We ruled out UTI and Syd was put on clindamycin in case his teeth are the problem but it doesn’t appear to be the case.

Syd can unexpectedly swing to a dangerously low reading. I have to test quite a lot. He’s currently on 2.5 units twice a day but it’s not controlling his sugar well - but because of his surprise low swings it’s where we are holding until we can get results from the next blood tests.

I’m just looking for any thoughts - I’ve learned about feeding and mechanics of injections and testing over the past 5 months. (I did make a few mistakes with food in the beginning.) I was told about this group by a friend of a friend. I’d just love some advice or ideas about what might be happening with him and as much as anything, the support will be nice!

Thank you for being here and any ideas would be helpful. I know I need to set up Syd’s spreadsheet! I look forward to meeting everyone.
 
Welcome to FDMB! Whoever told you about our community here, hopefully told you that there is a wealth of information and support that is available to you.

First, the good news is that of the insulins that are available, Prozinc and Lantus (glargine) are the two that are recommended for cats. Many vets still use insulin that is not appropriate for a cat's metabolism. It will be helpful to see just how Syd is responding to Prozinc. It sounds like your friend mentioned that we are very numbers driven. This is a link to a post on helping us to help you. It provides the information on setting up Syd's spreadsheet and your signature along with some addition materials you will want.

If you're feeling stumped about Syd's progress, getting the insulin resistance (insulin auto-antibody) and acromegaly tests is not a bad idea. We generally don't recommend testing for high dose conditions until a cat is over 5.0u of insulin twice a day.

One other possibility is glucose toxicity. The name sounds worse than it is. If the dose of insulin isn't bringing your cat into good numbers, your kitty's body may start treating the higher blood glucose levels as his new "normal." As a result, it's harder to get the numbers to come into a better range. Other issues, such as an infection or inflammation can also contribute to higher numbers. Did your vet check to see if Syd needs his teeth cleaned?

It does sound like you've got a knowledgeable vet. Most members have to argue with their vet to get labs sent off to Michigan State!

Please let us know how we can help. The members here are very generous with their time and knowledge.
 
Sienne and Gabby (GA) said:
Welcome to FDMB! Whoever told you about our community here, hopefully told you that there is a wealth of information and support that is available to you.

First, the good news is that of the insulins that are available, Prozinc and Lantus (glargine) are the two that are recommended for cats. Many vets still use insulin that is not appropriate for a cat's metabolism. It will be helpful to see just how Syd is responding to Prozinc. It sounds like your friend mentioned that we are very numbers driven. This is a link to a post on helping us to help you. It provides the information on setting up Syd's spreadsheet and your signature along with some addition materials you will want.

If you're feeling stumped about Syd's progress, getting the insulin resistance (insulin auto-antibody) and acromegaly tests is not a bad idea. We generally don't recommend testing for high dose conditions until a cat is over 5.0u of insulin twice a day.

One other possibility is glucose toxicity. The name sounds worse than it is. If the dose of insulin isn't bringing your cat into good numbers, your kitty's body may start treating the higher blood glucose levels as his new "normal." As a result, it's harder to get the numbers to come into a better range. Other issues, such as an infection or inflammation can also contribute to higher numbers. Did your vet check to see if Syd needs his teeth cleaned?

It does sound like you've got a knowledgeable vet. Most members have to argue with their vet to get labs sent off to Michigan State!

Please let us know how we can help. The members here are very generous with their time and knowledge.
Click to expand...


Thank you so much for your response. Insulin Toxicity could explain a lot, actually. I have wondered if he might have been handling high sugar for a while before I noticed. He has always been very slim and he’s a toilet water drinker so many times I would not have seen him drinking. His body might already have adjusted to higher numbers!

The person who told my friend about this site is Libby. I don’t think I know her last name but she used to work with many of you in the past on this site as a volunteer helping others. You might know her well!

I will work on the spreadsheet soon - but today is a holiday and I need a rest so I’m going to play. And yes, we are going to do a dental on Syd but my vet wanted to see how his numbers looked after a course of clindamycin before we decided to do it right now or not. We will be sending off bloodwork either way. I need info!

Thank you so much again! Have a good Memorial Day!
 
Sienne and Gabby (GA) said:
Welcome to FDMB! Whoever told you about our community here, hopefully told you that there is a wealth of information and support that is available to you.

First, the good news is that of the insulins that are available, Prozinc and Lantus (glargine) are the two that are recommended for cats. Many vets still use insulin that is not appropriate for a cat's metabolism. It will be helpful to see just how Syd is responding to Prozinc. It sounds like your friend mentioned that we are very numbers driven. This is a link to a post on helping us to help you. It provides the information on setting up Syd's spreadsheet and your signature along with some addition materials you will want.

If you're feeling stumped about Syd's progress, getting the insulin resistance (insulin auto-antibody) and acromegaly tests is not a bad idea. We generally don't recommend testing for high dose conditions until a cat is over 5.0u of insulin twice a day.

One other possibility is glucose toxicity. The name sounds worse than it is. If the dose of insulin isn't bringing your cat into good numbers, your kitty's body may start treating the higher blood glucose levels as his new "normal." As a result, it's harder to get the numbers to come into a better range. Other issues, such as an infection or inflammation can also contribute to higher numbers. Did your vet check to see if Syd needs his teeth cleaned?

It does sound like you've got a knowledgeable vet. Most members have to argue with their vet to get labs sent off to Michigan State!

Please let us know how we can help. The members here are very generous with their time and knowledge.
Click to expand...

Correction to my first Reply - I meant to say glucose toxicity….not insulin.
 
I know Libby from her time here on the Board, as do all of the moderators and some of the longer term members. She was a moderator, as well. She's an excellent resource. I see her posts on Facebook.
 
Hello and welcome to FDMB.

Sienne asked me to stop in, as one of the many members here who has a kitty that tested positive for both acromegaly (IGF-1 test) and IAA (insulin auto antibodies). We do see the odd cat on lower doses of insulin that have one or other of those conditions, though it's quite unusual. Mostly because most people don't test for it until they get to higher doses or see other signs. Note that the majority of cats who test positive for acromegaly do not have clinical signs on diagnosis, so you can see that many lower dose cats wouldn't be diagnosed just because people wouldn't think to ask for it. The latest research from the UK shows about 1 in 4 cats has acromegaly, and some on as low as 1 unit.

Once you've had your holiday time, I'll be looking for your spreadsheet. There are some clues in there that can sometimes be seen.

You also mentioned a growth hormone test. I'd be curious where if your vet is getting a separate test done for that. As far as I've heard, that test is not available for felines now. If so, I'd love to know where the blood test is going. It's not in the MSU catalog.
 
Wendy&Neko said:
Hello and welcome to FDMB.

Sienne asked me to stop in, as one of the many members here who has a kitty that tested positive for both acromegaly (IGF-1 test) and IAA (insulin auto antibodies). We do see the odd cat on lower doses of insulin that have one or other of those conditions, though it's quite unusual. Mostly because most people don't test for it until they get to higher doses or see other signs. Note that the majority of cats who test positive for acromegaly do not have clinical signs on diagnosis, so you can see that many lower dose cats wouldn't be diagnosed just because people wouldn't think to ask for it. The latest research from the UK shows about 1 in 4 cats has acromegaly, and some on as low as 1 unit.

Once you've had your holiday time, I'll be looking for your spreadsheet. There are some clues in there that can sometimes be seen.

You also mentioned a growth hormone test. I'd be curious where if your vet is getting a separate test done for that. As far as I've heard, that test is not available for felines now. If so, I'd love to know where the blood test is going. It's not in the MSU catalog.
Click to expand...


Wendy&Neko said:
Hello and welcome to FDMB.

Sienne asked me to stop in, as one of the many members here who has a kitty that tested positive for both acromegaly (IGF-1 test) and IAA (insulin auto antibodies). We do see the odd cat on lower doses of insulin that have one or other of those conditions, though it's quite unusual. Mostly because most people don't test for it until they get to higher doses or see other signs. Note that the majority of cats who test positive for acromegaly do not have clinical signs on diagnosis, so you can see that many lower dose cats wouldn't be diagnosed just because people wouldn't think to ask for it. The latest research from the UK shows about 1 in 4 cats has acromegaly, and some on as low as 1 unit.

Once you've had your holiday time, I'll be looking for your spreadsheet. There are some clues in there that can sometimes be seen.

You also mentioned a growth hormone test. I'd be curious where if your vet is getting a separate test done for that. As far as I've heard, that test is not available for felines now. If so, I'd love to know where the blood test is going. It's not in the MSU catalog.
Click to expand...

Hi, Wendy!

My vet had a lot of difficulty figuring it out but she said MSU was where she would be having both of those tests done. I think she called and talked to them. There are a lot of special requirements for shipping the specimens - have to freeze the blood. We would have sent it off last week but because of the holiday, they would not let us send it. I’m hoping we will get it done tomorrow!

Syd’s numbers have been rather high for a while (many weeks) now. 400’s, 500’s and even over 600 two times. But then he’ll swing wildly - one day last week he dropped at the “nadir” (is that the right word?) to 58 after 3 units. So that’s why we had to keep it down to 2.5. I’ll be so happy when we get these test results back. I’m constantly sticking the poor fella’s ears and it has been going on for so long now.

I’ll keep you posted and work on my spreadsheet very soon.

Thank you for being so attentive. It’s most reassuring! Libby said I would be happy with the help - she is so right. Thanks again!
 
Libby had a cat with acromegaly too. She knows a lot about sugar cats of all sorts. And yes, MSU shipping requires some fiddling. They only run the test for acromegaly once a week, on Wednesday I think. So if they don't get it by Tuesday, that means waiting another week for the results.

Cammy said:
Syd’s numbers have been rather high for a while (many weeks) now. 400’s, 500’s and even over 600 two times. But then he’ll swing wildly - one day last week he dropped at the “nadir” (is that the right word?) to 58 after 3 units.
Click to expand...
Yes, nadir is the low point of the cycle. Sounds like Syd is doing a lot of what we call bouncing. 58 may or may not be a bad number, depending on if using a human or pet meter.
Bouncing is simply a natural reaction to what the cat's system perceives as a BG value that is "too low". "Too low" is relative. If a cat is used to BGs in the 200's, 300's, or higher for a long time, then even a BG that drops to 150 can trigger a "bounce". Bouncing can also be triggered if the blood glucose drops too low and/or too fast.The pancreas, then the liver, release glucogon, glycogen and counter-regulatory hormones. The end result is a dumping of "sugar" into the bloodstream to save the cat from going hypoglycemic from a perceived low. The action is often referred to as "liver panic" or "panicky liver". *Usually*, a bounce will clear kitty's system within 3 days (6 cycles).
Click to expand...
 
Wendy&Neko said:
Libby had a cat with acromegaly too. She knows a lot about sugar cats of all sorts. And yes, MSU shipping requires some fiddling. They only run the test for acromegaly once a week, on Wednesday I think. So if they don't get it by Tuesday, that means waiting another week for the results.


Yes, nadir is the low point of the cycle. Sounds like Syd is doing a lot of what we call bouncing. 58 may or may not be a bad number, depending on if using a human or pet meter.
Click to expand...


I’m using the AlphaTrak meter. Syd is my first diabetic cat, so I’ve had to learn everything. He seems to feel ok even with the high numbers most of the time. Not all the time tho. And I can sure tell when he’s dropping low. I will look at what is required for completing the spreadsheet. I have lots of numbers but I might not have done everything just like you want on it, but I will try to do so going forward.

Thanks!
 
Good to know you are using the AT. That will be one of the things to put in your signature. We don't want cats going below 68 on the AT, so it was good to reduce the dose.

Having a diabetic cat is like a crash course at first. But we've all been there are love to help.
 
When you have a chance can you set up your signature
It's cat the end of everyone's post in light gray
Tap on your name up top , the tap on signature and add the information
  • Add info we need to help you:
    • Caregiver & kitty's name
    • DX: Date
    • Name of Insulin (do not include dose or frequency)
    • Name of your meter
    • Diet: "LC wet" or "dry food" or "combo"
    • Dosing: TR or SLGS or Custom (if applicable)
    • DKA or other recent health issue (if applicable)
    • Acro, IAA, or Cushings (if applicable)
    • Spreadsheet link. Please put the signature link on the bottom line of your signature information, on its own, so it is easy to find.
    • Please do not put any information about your location in the signature for security reasons. If you wish to add your country location, please add it to your profile.
Be sure to click the 'Save Changes' button at the bottom. If you need help urgently it is important we know these things at a glance. We don’t want to waste valuable time finding out information.
 
You're signature looks good! Great job getting your spreadsheet set up, as well. As you likely realized, Diane re-posted the signature information that was in the link I provided.

One observation -- you'll want to get some PM cycle tests. The minimum number of tests that are needed= 4. You're doing a great job getting your pre-shot tests. Those are important so you know it's safe to give insulin. However, Lantus dosing is based on the nadir (lowest number in the cycle). Thus, you need to get at least one additional test during both the AM and PM cycles so you're not missing a potential dose reduction. We encourage members to get a "before bed" test every night so you can go to sleep not worrying whether your cat's numbers are dropping too low.

If you have more recent test data, it would be great if you could update your spreadsheet. The meter may be storing a couple of weeks worth of recent data if you hadn't written things down.
 
I've populated the spreadsheet. It scares me to death to see how it's trending. I'm still waiting to hear from the vet today about when to bring Syd in for the blood specimens for MSU.

Please know that I have called the vet many, many times throughout this entire thing and I've followed their instructions to the letter - after looking at the spreadsheet it seems the dose should have gone higher sooner recently. They don't like to just react quickly to the changes/trends however.

One more thing - and this feels important. Syd is now gaining weight. He's heavy, but he doesn't feel flabby. I do believe he has acromegaly. I just wish we could hurry things up with testing.

Thanks for everything. Any questions are welcome. I didn't test him constantly every day, as you can see. During relatively stable times I gave him a little break from that.

The occasional "bounce" is what is scary too.
 
Syd's spreadsheet is not that terribly different than the spreadsheets we see of many new members here. I suspect that Syd's numbers are bouncing around which is a common occurrence.

Many people who find a home here don't use their vets for routine dosing issues. My vet initially gave me a hard time about it but I pointed out that she wasn't available 24/7. The folks here are. When I moved to a different city, my new vet took one look at Gabby's spreadsheet, told me that I knew what I was doing, and to let her know if I had a question about her diabetes management.

When you have some time, meander over to the Lantus board and read the sticky notes. It will help. It will give you guidance and information.
 
Hi and welcome to the club. You have come to the right place to get help for Syd, that's for sure.

I agree that the spreadsheet does not look like quite the doom and gloom you might think it does. I am pretty new to this, just going on six months, but my guess that the higher numbers you're seeing are bouncing from the dose taking Syd too low:

BOUNCE: When a cat’s BG numbers drop into a low range, drop fast, or drop into a range the cat is no longer used to, the liver and pancreas may respond by releasing a stored form of glucose along with counterregulatory hormones. This causes numbers to spike back upward. It can take up to 3 days/6 cycles for a bounce to clear.


At any rate, glad you made it here! Syd is gorgeous I love that color. I'll see you around the forums. :)

PS @Sienne and Gabby (GA) did you mean the Prozinc forum? Syd is not on Lantus.
 
Hi, folks! I have just gotten a call from Syd's vet. We had sent bloodwork off to Michigan State to test for acromegaly or insulin antibody resistance. Acromegaly is negative, but his number on the antibody test was 76. I understand the range should be 20 or less?

The vet wants to change his insulin to glargine. She was wanting me to ask you guys if you know for sure whether or not it has gone generic. It's terribly expensive from what I gather and she's trying to get me the best deal and will write a prescription based on the best route/pharmacy. Do you have any information on this you could share with me please?

Thank you so much!!
 
Hendrick Cuddleclaw said:
Hi and welcome to the club. You have come to the right place to get help for Syd, that's for sure.

I agree that the spreadsheet does not look like quite the doom and gloom you might think it does. I am pretty new to this, just going on six months, but my guess that the higher numbers you're seeing are bouncing from the dose taking Syd too low:

BOUNCE: When a cat’s BG numbers drop into a low range, drop fast, or drop into a range the cat is no longer used to, the liver and pancreas may respond by releasing a stored form of glucose along with counterregulatory hormones. This causes numbers to spike back upward. It can take up to 3 days/6 cycles for a bounce to clear.


At any rate, glad you made it here! Syd is gorgeous I love that color. I'll see you around the forums. :)

PS @Sienne and Gabby (GA) did you mean the Prozinc forum? Syd is not on Lantus.
Click to expand...

I just saw your post - I'm so sorry for not acknowledging that sooner but I just saw it when I sent in my latest question. Thanks for your kind welcome! Syd is my "soul mate kittie" and I'm hoping we can make some good progress for him now that we know he has insulin antibodies! I love Syd's color too - I got him as a tiny baby and he has always looked adorable to me. I'm about to go back and watch the Henrick Pokey now!! hahahah Thanks again.
 
Cammy said:
The vet wants to change his insulin to glargine. She was wanting me to ask you guys if you know for sure whether or not it has gone generic. It's terribly expensive from what I gather and she's trying to get me the best deal and will write a prescription based on the best route/pharmacy. Do you have any information on this you could share with me please?
Click to expand...
This was from one of our members whose cat was on lantus which is very expensive in the US
Basaglar has worked wonderfully, we were using Lantus and when we switched there wasn't even a blip. Hendrick did not seem to notice at all.

Check this out also
https://www.goodrx.com/insulin-glargine?dosage=five-3ml-prefilled-pens-of-100-units-ml&form=carton&label_override=insulin glargine&quantity=1
The 5 pens will last about a year

Basaglar is also Insulin Glargine, it acts the same way.

Here is a saving card for basaglar for 5 pens
Check it out just put in where it says set your location
https://www.goodrx.com/basaglar

I see some members will call CVS, Rite Aid, Costco to get the price for 5 pens
If you switch you will need U-100 syringes with half unit markings
 
Last edited:
Cammy said:
Thank you Thank you Thank you!!

I had already found the GoodRx route as well. There’s hope!
Click to expand...
Great just check around to all the pharmacies
Here is where you can buy the U-100 syringes with half unit markings
They are easier to use when you have to increase or decrease by 0.25 units
https://www.adwdiabetes.com/product/1316/surecomfort-u100-syringes-half-unit-31g-3-10cc-5-16in-100ct
The pens will probably have an expiration date of 2023 and 2024
Just keep them in the fridge on the middle shelf
Do you live in the US
We actually use the pens as vials , because with the pens you can only increase or decrease by whole units
I'll show you

Very easy
Just take the cap off the pen and use a U100 syringes and pull the insulin out of the pen!
syringe-in-pen-pic-jpg.45006




Here is a coupon for the syringes I showed you from ADW Diabetes
Give your vet a heads up , call them tell them what you want and they will contact your vet, ask for refills , your vet could fax the script over. Most vets do not have them with half unit markings
adw-coupon-dia10.jpg
 
Last edited:
Diane Tyler's Mom said:
Great just check around to all the pharmacies
Here is where you can buy the U-100 syringes with half unit markings
They are easier to use when you have to increase or decrease by 0.25 units
https://www.adwdiabetes.com/product/1316/surecomfort-u100-syringes-half-unit-31g-3-10cc-5-16in-100ct
The pens will probably have an expiration date of 2023 and 2024
Just keep them in the fridge on the middle shelf
Do you live in the US
We actually use the pens as vials , because with the pens you can only increase or decrease by whole units
I'll show you

Very easy
Just take the cap off the pen and use a U100 syringes and pull the insulin out of the pen!
syringe-in-pen-pic-jpg.45006




Here is a coupon for the syringes I showed you from ADW Diabetes
Give your vet a heads up , call them tell them what you want and they will contact your vet, ask for refills , your vet could fax the script over. Most vets do not have them with half unit markings
adw-coupon-dia10.jpg
Click to expand...

Wow - thank you! I have already ordered the syringes. I appreciate your help so much!
 
Cammy said:
His blood work indicates he has had a bit of a bout with pancreatitis again recently. He did have an ultrasound in the early days - not much to see there.
Click to expand...
Cammy I see you said above
His blood work indicates he has had a bit of a bout with pancreatitis again recently. He did have an ultrasound in the early days - not much to see there.
You might want to add that to your signature also, something like
pancreatitis in the past and his age

To add it just tap on your name ,then signature and add it tap Save
Great you are feeding LC Wet
Most of us feed Fancy Feast Classic Pate or Friskies We like to stay with 6% carbs and under
I'll give you the food chart just in case you want to look at it
https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/dr-pierson-new-food-chart.174147/

Do you have a hypo kit

For your hypo kit you want some
Med and High Carb food and some honey



Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers Gourmet Beef Feast in Gravy 20% High Carbs

Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers Gourmet Chicken Feast in Gravy 15% Med Carbs

Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers Turkey Feast in Gravy 15% Med Carbs

Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers Chicken and Beef in Gravy 15% Med Carbs

Good idea to mark the cans with magic marker how many carbs

Or any on the food chart.
https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/dr-pierson-new-food-chart.174147/

If the Alpha Trak Strips get to be to much to afford , I know they are very expensive
Most of us use human meters , that's what our numbers are based on
If you are ever interested ask and I can tell you which one you can get .
Syd sure is a handsome kitty :cat:
 
Last edited:
Cammy said:
Hi, folks! I have just gotten a call from Syd's vet. We had sent bloodwork off to Michigan State to test for acromegaly or insulin antibody resistance. Acromegaly is negative, but his number on the antibody test was 76. I understand the range should be 20 or less?

The vet wants to change his insulin to glargine. She was wanting me to ask you guys if you know for sure whether or not it has gone generic. It's terribly expensive from what I gather and she's trying to get me the best deal and will write a prescription based on the best route/pharmacy. Do you have any information on this you could share with me please?

Thank you so much!!
Click to expand...
@Wendy&Neko
 
Diane Tyler's Mom said:
Cammy I see you said above
His blood work indicates he has had a bit of a bout with pancreatitis again recently. He did have an ultrasound in the early days - not much to see there.
You might want to add that to your signature also, something like
pancreatitis in the past

To add it just tap on your name ,then signature and add it tap Save
Great you are feeding LC Wet
Most of us feed Fancy Feast Classic Pate or Friskies We like to stay with 6% carbs and under
I'll give you the food chart just in case you want to look at it
https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/dr-pierson-new-food-chart.174147/

Do you have a hypo kit

For your hypo kit you want some
Med and High Carb food and some honey



Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers Gourmet Beef Feast in Gravy 20% High Carbs

Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers Gourmet Chicken Feast in Gravy 15% Med Carbs

Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers Turkey Feast in Gravy 15% Med Carbs

Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers Chicken and Beef in Gravy 15% Med Carbs

Good idea to mark the cans with magic marker how many carbs

Or any on the food chart.
https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/dr-pierson-new-food-chart.174147/

If the Alpha Trak Strips get to be to much to afford , I know they are very expensive
Most of us use human meters , that's what our numbers are based on
If you are ever interested ask and I can tell you which one you can get
Click to expand...

I will add that to my signature line. Thank you.

You know, I have discovered reading the FF labels that there’s almost always chicken liver in there, even in the basic classic recipes. (Even in some fish recipes!) Since Syd seems to maybe have chronic pancreatitis, wouldn’t the liver be problematic? Maybe even causing his recurring bouts? It’s a fatty organ meat.

I’ve looked at that carb chart but now I worry about the liver content. Once I bought a classic chicken and liver flavor because he isn’t crazy about the regular classic flavors, and right after he went into another cycle of high readings. I never expected classic chicken pate to contain liver. I guess liver helps them manufacture pate with that smooth loaf texture.

Thanks again for all your kind assistance. We’re going to beat this!
 
Cammy said:
I will add that to my signature line. Thank you.

You know, I have discovered reading the FF labels that there’s almost always chicken liver in there, even in the basic classic recipes. (Even in some fish recipes!) Since Syd seems to maybe have chronic pancreatitis, wouldn’t the liver be problematic? Maybe even causing his recurring bouts? It’s a fatty organ meat.

I’ve looked at that carb chart but now I worry about the liver content. Once I bought a classic chicken and liver flavor because he isn’t crazy about the regular classic flavors, and right after he went into another cycle of high readings. I never expected classic chicken pate to contain liver. I guess liver helps them manufacture pate with that smooth loaf texture.

Thanks again for all your kind assistance. We’re going to beat this!
Click to expand...
I really wouldn't know about this but I can tag some members who know more than I do

@tiffmaxee

@Wendy&Neko

@Suzanne & Darcy

@Christie & Maverick

@Bron and Sheba (GA)
 
Here's what Dr. Lisa Pierson has to say about liver in cat food (on her catinfo.org site.)
  • I like to see liver in the diet but not as the first ingredient. Liver is high in vitamin A and D which can be overdosed. Liver only represents ~5% of a cat’s natural diet. Liver is cheap which is why it often appears first on the list in some diets.
 
I’ve noticed it’s 3rd ingredient in Fancy Feast Classic Chicken and every FF flavor I have on hand lists liver as an ingredient. So I’ll have a hard time feeding Syd anything without liver as an ingredient. I may have to resort to those ultra expensive canned goods for him, which would be ok but I have 10 cats and I can’t feed them all that expensive food. As it is I’ve put them all on FF in order to minimize the chances of Syd eating high carb food off another plate. (I do feral cat rescue - that’s the reason for so many cats).

At least I have a clue about liver maybe being part of his particular problem.

All of this is so expensive and I have another cat with hyperthyroidism and a dog with Cushings! $$$ But I’ll do whatever I need to do to get Syd well - I’m still hoping for remission. Maybe the glargine insulin will do the trick!

Thank you for helping us!
 
Cammy said:
I have just gotten a call from Syd's vet. We had sent bloodwork off to Michigan State to test for acromegaly or insulin antibody resistance. Acromegaly is negative, but his number on the antibody test was 76. I understand the range should be 20 or less?

The vet wants to change his insulin to glargine. She was wanting me to ask you guys if you know for sure whether or not it has gone generic. It's terribly expensive from what I gather and she's trying to get me the best deal and will write a prescription based on the best route/pharmacy. Do you have any information on this you could share with me please?
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Sorry to hear about the IAA number, we have a couple kitties active now with just IAA and not acromegaly. You can breathe a sigh of relief you aren't dealing with that one! IAA supposedly is self limiting, around a year. And yes, the IAA number should be less than 20, 76 is reasonably high though I've seen higher. Neko's IAA was 52.

As for insulin, Levemir might be a better choice if Syd ends up needing a higher dose. Lantus has an acid base which can sting at higher doses. Having said that, we've seen some IAA positive kitties that don't get to higher doses. Semglee also makes a generic glargine that comes in pens or vials. I think I've heard it's the cheapest one available in the US.

Fat being bad for pancreatitis is more a dog thing, not a cat thing. A Primer On Pancreatitis There are lots of low carb options besides Fancy Feast.
 
Wendy&Neko said:
Sorry to hear about the IAA number, we have a couple kitties active now with just IAA and not acromegaly. You can breathe a sigh of relief you aren't dealing with that one! IAA supposedly is self limiting, around a year. And yes, the IAA number should be less than 20, 76 is reasonably high though I've seen higher. Neko's IAA was 52.

As for insulin, Levemir might be a better choice if Syd ends up needing a higher dose. Lantus has an acid base which can sting at higher doses. Having said that, we've seen some IAA positive kitties that don't get to higher doses. Semglee also makes a generic glargine that comes in pens or vials. I think I've heard it's the cheapest one available in the US.

Fat being bad for pancreatitis is more a dog thing, not a cat thing. A Primer On Pancreatitis There are lots of low carb options besides Fancy Feast.
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Thank you for this fantastic info - I love hearing that IAA may be self-limiting.

No rush, but if you think there is a best choice among these insulin alternatives I’d love to hear. I don’t really think he will need higher and higher dosages necessarily. I’m going to see the vet and get a written arc in about 6 hours. I’m leaning toward Semglee in a vial for some reason. (Not just because of pricing - just a gut feeling. Thoughts about that choice?)

thank you!
 
You could try lantus and switch if the dose gets high as lantus stings in higher doses. I liked the pens better than the vials as I used each one to the last drop. I had to throw away my two vials after about 6 months and they were half full.
 
Agreed, get the pens for now. If you drop one, you haven't wasted the entire things. You can start with glargine and switch later if you think it's bothering him.
 
AbbottTheCat said:
I agree completely to go for the pens. Much easier to dose. I've been using this method along with a magnifier app to zero in on perfect fine doses and .25u adjustments.
You could try it out:

https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/pen-syringe-hands-free-technique.264986/
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How clever!! I got the vial for first try with glargine. I’m going to go for the pen next I think. How long does the pen last? The vial only goes for 28 days so much of that will be wasted.

Thank you for showing me your method. It’s very smart!
 
Thank you so much for that info - the demonstration video was particularly enlightening because I never realized the lubricant in the syringe could contaminate the insulin. I will be attentive to those details and removal of bubbles much more closely going forward. I’ve been tapping the syringe while it was still in the vial hoping to be rid of tiny bubbles but it doesn’t work well anyway. Slightly overfilling the syringe and then dealing with bubbles after removing it seems very wise. It does seem like it would be difficult with a vial to keep from getting lubricant contamination if your dose is over 1 unit, or wherever they set the syringe prior to use.

Anyway, I’ve never received education like this on the syringes themselves, and I thank you very much for it!
 
No worries that you didn't see my post or reply to it immediately @Cammy life happens

If I got worked up every time I didn't get a reply to a post on here I would not have lasted a day, lol. All the same, I do appreciate that you took the time to reply when you did. I wish you the best with Syd, now that you're dosing glargine, come join us on the Lantus/Levemir/Biosimilars forum. I'm over there a lot, people post a new thread every day with their cat's BG numbers and get expert help on adjusting the dose and driving kitty to regulation and if we're lucky, the holy grail of diabetic remission. See you there!
 
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Sometimes I don’t even know someone has posted on this thread until I come back in and look - I thought the posts also showed up in my emails but it seems either that’s not the case or somehow I’m not seeing them in my emails, which is odd because I don’t indiscriminately delete emails!

Yes, I’m learning a lot thanks to all of you. You are an amazing resource and I can’t tell everyone how much I appreciate it!!
 
Cammy said:
How clever!! I got the vial for first try with glargine. I’m going to go for the pen next I think. How long does the pen last? The vial only goes for 28 days so much of that will be wasted.

Thank you for showing me your method. It’s very smart!
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You’re welcome! Sorry just saw this. As for the bubbles you could try my method. It seems to be working for a couple folks on here:

As for the syringe priming method here's what I do:
*pull plunger most of the way out and move up and down (lubricates plunger)
*push plunger all the way in and WHILE PUSHING twist a couple times. (lubricates the area between zero and .5 where most of the bubbles hang out)
*KEY- while holding plunger pushed in, insert syringe into pen all the way. (no risk of contamination since syringe is empty)
*release thumb off plunger (this will instantly fill the area between zero and .10 (with zero bubbles if done correctly)
*then draw up your dose

All of this is much easier to do with the hands free method I posted I'm sure, although I have not dosed with one hand holding pen so can't speak to that.
Give it a shot! pun intended;)
 
Diane Tyler's Mom said:
Have you tried this one I don't see liver listed, it's 2 or 3 % carbs look at the food chart
https://www.walmart.com/ip/Fancy-Fe...ic-Pate-Chopped-Grill-Feast-3-oz-Can/10534970
I just found some in Stop and Shop don't know if you have one by you
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Wow - thank you for this specific suggestion. Syd is always searching for something to eat because he’s not crazy about several of the low carb FF options. I’m sorry I did not respond to your post - I just saw it! I get lots of good help when I post a question and it seems that I occasionally miss responding to one. Your help is much appreciated.

I have 10 cats - I do feral rescue. Syd can smell that they get food he wants and his diet drives him crazy, so I’m always looking for tasty options for him. It’s going to be one of the most difficult aspects of his care for me because I’m wired in a way that “good tasting food = love” and I so love him. But I do my best to keep his diet low carb! For the most part I succeed but I see where he tries to get into the kibble bag at night and he will search the floors for even 1 kibble to eat. Breaks my heart.

In fact, I’ve had to resort to feeding all 10 cats his diet of low carb FF in order to keep his diet under control. That’s so expensive but I’m doing it. I put Syd in a separate area when I feed the others anything else, but he sometimes finds bits I either miss picking up by accident (I have lots of ferals and sometimes have to feed some under the bed, etc) or a single kibble that has fallen. I’m very serious about properly caring for all my animals but keeping Syd strictly low carb with all these others has proven to be quite the task. Still I’d have to say I do really well with that for the most part.

Thank you for helping me! If you have any other tasty low carb suggestions (doesn’t have to be FF) I’d love to hear!
 
Cammy said:
If you have any other tasty low carb suggestions (doesn’t have to be FF) I’d love to hear!
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We feed Weruva Truluxe, several of the varieties are LC. They are VERY popular but quite expensive.

Also Friskies has some LC pates but our cats don't seem to enjoy them much

we also feed Tiki Cat pates, not very popular but very low carb

Weruva BFF makes a few low carb options that the kits seem to like.
 
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