Cami 12/5 amPS 81, +4 100, +8 107, pmPS 125

[Sheila & Beau GA & Jeddie GA]

Now I am thinking the 105 was a tiny bounce off the 59 (or possibly lower before/after that confused_cat ) . So I held the .05u dose for now. Seems like she is in competition with Autumn this week for lows....

Now, my next question is this (Suze, I need the 'antijinx' icon - can't make it work for me): how soon should I start an OTJ trial..... hmmmmm?

 

[MommaOfMuse]

Re: Cami 12/5 amPS 81

Well if you start her OTJ trial next week then if she passes we could throw her party for Christmas. Now that would be a really nice thing for Santa Claws to bring her.

Mel, Maxwell, Autumn & The Fur Gang

 

[Laura and Harley (GA)]

Re: Cami 12/5 amPS 81

Now I am thinking the 105 was a tiny bounce off the 59 (or possibly lower before/after that confused_cat ) . So I held the .05u dose for now. Seems like she is in competition with Autumn this week for lows....

Now, my next question is this (Suze, I need the 'antijinx' icon - can't make it work for me): how soon should I start an OTJ trial..... hmmmmm?

Hi Sheila & Cami - What a lovely sea of blues and greens! So glad to see she's looking and feeling better now after excorcizing that Little Shop Of Horrors plant thing.

Here's an alternate perspective to consider, what if the 105 wasn't a bounce off of the 59? It could be a situation where she's ready for "the trial" and even a tiny bit of insulin is making her numbers slightly higher. I had that happen with Hadley. As my first OTJ, I walked him down the dosing ladder very slowly and I was frustrated that after a week at 0.10u (I couldn't measure a 0.05u) he would still throw me blue PS's in his sea of greens. Then I tried no insulin and voila, his numbers stayed under 100 for 2 weeks.

I think she's ready for "the trial" anytime you are ready. Speaking from experience, it's hard to stop shooting sometimes. But if it doesn't work out, it's easy to start up again. I had to do that with Vinny after 48 hours of no insulin. I fed dinner on a high PS, and waited and his numbers were higher at his evening snack time, so I shot.

Set a no-shoot number, say 130 or 150, and if you get a PS above 100, feed a few TBSPs instead of shooting and see if the food brings her down in a few hours. The hard part may be only feeding her a little bit at a time - she may not appreciate getting her whole meal all at once. "I iz so abuzzed!"

 

[Sheila & Beau GA & Jeddie GA]

Re: Cami 12/5 amPS 81

Laura, thanks for chiming in. It's amazing how Vinny went OTJ off of 1.5u. How did you know it was time for a trial and not just a dose reduction?

Anyway, its been so long since Beau went OTJ I can't remember my thinking back then - plus, her was so different in how he responded to insulin. He has a do not shoot number because even .05u sent him to the 30s. I don't remember that insulin seemed to raise his BG, but maybe I missed that stage.

She was just 100 at +4, so if she comes down from that it would look like it was the insulin that bumped her up. So... paws crossed for her.

I also just caught her contemplating peeing on a piece of fabric that fell on the floor under the dining room table. Clearly, she isn't ready to give up on that yet. She did, however, stop pawing at it when I said "Cami, no", and walk down the hall to the LBs. I still had to put her in one because she stopped and turned back toward the LR. :roll:

 

[Laura and Harley (GA)]

Re: Cami 12/5 amPS 81

Laura, thanks for chiming in. It's amazing how Vinny went OTJ off of 1.5u. How did you know it was time for a trial and not just a dose reduction?

Vinny's fast breakthrough at 2.0u was a surprise. Once we broke through, I tried to follow the Tilly guidelines for a reduction - reduce by 0.25u. The problem was (and it really was a good, if not scary problem to have ) Vinny's insulin needs fell so quickly that reducing by just 0.25u wasn't nearly enough. From 2u to 1.75u to 1.5u and finally I decided to break the rules and instead of backing down the dosing ladder, I'd start from the bottom up. Even if it meant having to find a good dose all over again. At least that way both he and I would be doing it safely.

The thought to try a much reduced dose - or even no insulin at all, came to me based on experience with OTJ's Dillon and Molly. I fostered Dillon from May to June of this year. I didn't post him on FDMB because he come to me on PZI and so I treated him according to the Diabetic Cat Help Hodgkins TR protocol which doses insulin based on a sliding scale. After coming to me and getting a diet change from dry WD to all wet food, Dillon needed only 4 shots of PZI before his pancreas started working on its own. He was able to bring himself down from a 185 at night to a 55 the next morning - and has kept it in the 50s and 60s range ever since. He is now happily living in Virginia with fellow DCIN adopted kitty, Buddy, the Siamese. cat_pet_icon I did not bring Molly OTJ, but Molly's Uncle Don kept me informed of her numbers via phone and told me how she was doing. He did not shoot according to Tilly, he used a sliding scale approach but with Lantus. I don't have the exact numbers in a spreadsheet but he told me that Molly had been running in nice blue numbers for a week on 1.75u Lantus and then the day before her flight to me he called to say she'd thrown a green PS the night before and he stopped shooting and just tested. That morning and evening she stayed green (a 71 and a 64, I think). She flew to me the next day and has been OTJ ever since. So knowing that at least one cat had suddenly broken through insulin resistance from a high dose, planted the seed that maybe Vinny had done the same. It turns out he did, and we both got lucky. :mrgreen:

Anyway, its been so long since Beau went OTJ I can't remember my thinking back then - plus, her was so different in how he responded to insulin. He has a do not shoot number because even .05u sent him to the 30s. I don't remember that insulin seemed to raise his BG, but maybe I missed that stage.

Your SS shows you shot as needed until finally he didn't need it anymore. That gave his pancreas time to kick in and get stronger and finally do it all on its own.

I don't know if tiny whiffs of insulin show up as raised BGs for every cat who's tinkering with going "you know." But I read of it happening on DCH and observed it firsthand with Hadley. Not so with Vinny or Dillon. So maybe it's another one of those ECID things? Just something to keep in the back of one's mind when trying to decide to go for "the trial" or not - as if there aren't enough variables to juggle. ohmygod_smile

I don't think you can make a wrong decision here. If you decide to stop shooting you can always start again. And if you decide to keep shooting and give the doses a little more time and see if they settle, that's OK too.

She was just 100 at +4, so if she comes down from that it would look like it was the insulin that bumped her up. So... paws crossed for her.

Go Cami!!

I also just caught her contemplating peeing on a piece of fabric that fell on the floor under the dining room table. Clearly, she isn't ready to give up on that yet. She did, however, stop pawing at it when I said "Cami, no", and walk down the hall to the LBs. I still had to put her in one because she stopped and turned back toward the LR. :roll:

Cami, do NOT go - in the LR. Go in the LB. Baby steps, it's like potty training a kitten all over again.

 

[Sheila & Beau GA & Jeddie GA]

Re: Cami 12/5 amPS 81

Laura, it's good you had the experience to recognize that Vinny could just stop insulin. I kept trying to apply what I learned about beau to Jeddie and he was too different. Jeddie should have stayed OTJ having been treated pretty quickly and with the diet change....well, he was a happy and robust cat until the final chapter... (sigh - I still have a hard time with that. I have a wonderful video of him where he is practically beside himself with happiness - and it nearly breaks my heart. I wish I could share it here, but it's 14MB!)

Anyway.... I recalled that I shot Beau as needed, but not if it seemed like insulin made him go higher at the very end.

Well, she didn't hold the lows - was 126 for pmPS, so I went back to .1u. I'll have to see if that works or is too much.

She's very excited for raw chicken treats! Getting really responsive about it instead of just lying there or sitting there looking dull and sad. cat_pet_icon