Cami 1/6 ~ +60 is 77, but.... (+104 was 117)

[Sheila & Beau GA & Jeddie GA]

....peeing continues out of control.

I just don't understand why she uses a LB sometimes and not others. She is peeing on the peed pads, next to them, under them (well, it runs under and then sits).

I am concerned (still/again) that she has other health issues more complicated than the usual suspects and, therefore, not picked up on senior panel blood work or routine physical exam. Specifically: cushings, acro, lymphoma. She still has a ravenous appetite at times. Not always, but last night and this morning she is back to eating more than normal. She still drinks/pees a lot. She still has the bloated belly with loud gas noises coming from it, her back legs are longer than her fronts (now that could be stiffness from arthritis or neuropathy as they are definitely straighter than a normal cat's legs). I noted extremely thin skin when I got her and no subQ fat layer. And thin fur/no undercoat. Her coat is a little better/thicker now, but not by much. And her mental state - the inconsistent inappropriate peeing, the isolation, the rather extreme response to upset: vomiting followed by needing physical reassurance and that begin the only time she comes for cuddles and purrs.

I have to do more research on cushings and acro, but one question for Lu-Ann and Heather is this, can an acro (or cushings) cat reach this kind of fast regulation and extended normal numbers like this? I am just wondering if she is in an early stage (although the belly and legs would say she is more advanced if they are from either disease) and she will suddenly have rapid rises in BG in the future? She has already had a couple of sudden pops to slightly higher numbers that I attributed to faulty insulin, but has come back under control pretty fast.

I just think there is something I/we are missing.

 

[hmjohnston]

Re: Cami 1/6 ~ +60 is 77, but....

Mmmm. I will post a link of this to the FB page because others might be more able to tell you the answer.

I know Sneakers back legs are longer than the front- she is always in such an awkward position ( to me) when she eats. Sneakers was always high (as I look back on her SS) but she was getting closer to being regulated late Feb/early march last year until she got into the dry food in the area and went up into black regions again like a rocket. Since I changed to Lev almost immediately after that (she had been on PZI for 2 1/2 months) and then went straight up the unit ladder like streaked lightening until her numbers got better.

Since her numbers are under renal threshold she eats like a normal cat instead of starving cat. I know that eventually that will change again depending on the tumor. I think Grayson has about 7 pounds on my old girl as she is 11.2 ( up 2lbs from march appt) and I think he is also much bigger that she is.

Sneakers still has the big belly (and rumblings there-of) but I am also wondering if there is something like that veggie cap still in there causing problems. That could be creating gas, bloating, pain, and she might think that inappropriate peeing is the only way to let you know of her discomfort. I think I recall you saying that you had an x-ray done so there isn't any metal like a needle and thread- but do you think she might have a mass of fur in there? She used to have a beautiful black coat, didn't she?

For the last question- if the tumor is still in it's small stages I (personally) feel regulation is possible as it is a balancing act between food, insulin, and how well the cat feels. There is a new member to acro who is there b/c the cat tested positive for acro but isn't diabetic- so, early stages yet. Keeping her there, however, if she is acro, will be a tight rope act for the future.

The rapid rise in BG levels might be whatever is making her stomach bloat up and when it subsided she goes quickly into normal numbers. So it could be irritant rather than faulty insulin that makes her jump.

Hope this helps some.

 

[Sheila & Beau GA & Jeddie GA]

Re: Cami 1/6 ~ +60 is 77, but....

Thanks Heather. she isn't putting on weight - still skinny, skinny - except the bloated belly.One thing I noticed (actually, my mother did) in the beginning is that she had very rapid breathing - I clocked it at 56 resp/min and I have been noting it every since. After the plant cap came up her breathing has gotten much slower. Right now its at 28 resp/min. That is a big difference. I don't think, right now, that she is uncomfortable and I do think that the peeing issues that started when my mother was here were stress/anxiety related.

I have been using the pee pads will good success, but I did have to remove two area rugs, one of which is a favorite of mine, so I would like to be able to use it again. But for now she is using a LB and pads I have in a large dog crate tray I had - put it down where the other rug was and put two pads in it. That has worked well so far.

She is sleeping next to me now, and was on my lap purring a little while ago. When I turned to note her breathing she did one of those big cat stretches they do when they are sleeping on their sides. So, she feel pretty comfortable right now. Of course I have to leve for several hours in a few mins and that will probably upset her some.

 

[Sheila & Beau GA & Jeddie GA]

Re: Cami 1/6 ~ +60 is 77, but....

She is at +106 now, but creeping up - 117 this am.

 

[hmjohnston]

Good to know she had a chance to relax and sleep next to you.

Maybe instead of you sending her away she thinks you will go away? I don't really know anything about that as I've never had a cat with those problems. I think the only thing I ever dealt with, and it was very minor, was a pica (pico?) cat who just ate strange things- but was a GREAT squirreler :lol: . Mom was cleaning out the leaves one time after he was gone and she said she must have found his prey bone yard- full of squirrel skulls!

Hopefully Cami will get back to the trusting zone again and be more appropriate in her places to pee.

 

[MommaOfMuse]

Maybe instead of you sending her away she thinks you will go away?

You know there might be something to that, I had a cat many years ago that would pee on the clean laundry and my bed if I was gone longer than she thought I should be. I thought she was getting mad at me and doing it out of spite, but I had a behavior expert tell me know she did it to leave a scent trail for me to follow back home. But for the life of me I don't remember what we did to get her to stop.

Yep got two pica civies here Bert is dangerous to anything paper and Lady Jane Grey is mad for cotton socks, I don't know how many rice socks she has destroyed, and she just about became a small fluffy grey rug the day I came home after just buying 10 brandnew pairs of sock, tossed the package on my dresser while I unpacked the rest of the shopping bags, went back in the bedroom to put the socks away and she had eaten holes in 8 pairs. :evil:

Mel, Maxwell, Autumn & The Fur Gang

 

[Grayson & Lu]

....I am concerned (still/again) that she has other health issues more complicated than the usual suspects and, therefore, not picked up on senior panel blood work or routine physical exam. Specifically: cushings, acro, lymphoma. She still has a ravenous appetite at times. Not always, but last night and this morning she is back to eating more than normal. She still drinks/pees a lot. She still has the bloated belly with loud gas noises coming from it, her back legs are longer than her fronts (now that could be stiffness from arthritis or neuropathy as they are definitely straighter than a normal cat's legs). I noted extremely thin skin when I got her and no subQ fat layer. And thin fur/no undercoat. Her coat is a little better/thicker now, but not by much. And her mental state - the inconsistent inappropriate peeing, the isolation, the rather extreme response to upset: vomiting followed by needing physical reassurance and that begin the only time she comes for cuddles and purrs.

I have to do more research on cushings and acro, but one question for Lu-Ann and Heather is this, can an acro (or cushings) cat reach this kind of fast regulation and extended normal numbers like this? I am just wondering if she is in an early stage (although the belly and legs would say she is more advanced if they are from either disease) and she will suddenly have rapid rises in BG in the future? She has already had a couple of sudden pops to slightly higher numbers that I attributed to faulty insulin, but has come back under control pretty fast.

I just think there is something I/we are missing.

Grayson didn't even approach "regulation" as far as I'm concerned until the last two months. He was dx'ed one year ago last week. Can it happen that fast? I've not seen it, but I've got a diet-controlled foster who seems to have. Grayson also looked anorexic at the time of his SRT. He was down to 12 pounds, and was skeletal (he's a LONG boy). Even when his belly was shaved for the ultrasound, he had his little rooster cockle belly hanging down. Once he started putting weight back on, he looked lumpy! I think I posted pics here of him here - he looked pregnant on both sides of his belly. G didn't have much gas until the Christmas trip to my mom's. His constipation earned him his own bottle of Miralax. That seems to have rememdied the problem. His legs have always been memorable. Before the diabetes dx, I used to call him Popeye arms. He was VERY meaty. Then, when he was going through his EXTREMELY ravenous stage, he looked like he had jackrabbit legs. Now that he's filled in, he looks more proportionate to me, but he's had significant growth (not just in grrth) since July (CSU). Definitely his feet, his head, his body in general, and even his length, I think. Will have to go back & check my paper notes, as I measured both him & Libby/Doug's Hershey when he came to visit.

Back to your first questions:
Ravenous - since he's come into blues & greens, and even yellows, the ravenous appetite has nearly disappeared. He still eats a LOT. Mom thought I was killing him with food!
Belly - very full now - still lumpy, but his cockle is much more pronounced. It swings back & forth when he walks.
Coat - I don't know when it changed - but it looks good now. Still a little dandruff occasionally, but nice shine, filled in, and a little undercoat. He never had a REALLY thick coat to begin with. His skin was never thin.
Legs - still long, but he seems pretty level horizontally. I don't think the rear legs are significantly longer anymore (so I guess the front ones grew in length as well as width).
Mental state - He seems to have just about stopped having any behavioral issues. He was hissy with my sister, but she was also trying to pull him out from under Mom's bed. I'm sure he felt threatened. And her barking dogs probably didn't help either. He's inappropriately peed once recently - not quite sure where that came from. Otherwise, he seems to have adjusted back to being a "normal" cat (who gets obscene doses of insulin).

Most of these improvements I attribute to the SRT treatment he had at CSU. Better numbers, nearly half the dose he was on, normal behaviors...

So what does that say for Cami? 117 is a pretty awesome number for +104. Other than your mom's visit, has there been anything else stressful in her world? Sometimes it's just gonna take some time to acclimate and learn to trust again. I've found that with the foster. Initially she bit. She was MEAN and mad. Now she's much more trusting, and hasn't bit in ages. I think when their world is torn apart from what they knew, they react. Hopefully, this is just something that will pass. I've gotta say it... Rome wasn't built in a day. It's gonna take some time.

 

[Blue]

Shadoe was super clean, used the LB all the time, and never had accidents, until she needed insulin.
Even when regulated, she continued to pee outside the box on pee pads.
She had a BIG belly and I had wondered if rubbing on the edge of the box bothered her; she had short legs. I made steps for her to get in the LB and she was better but still had accidents.

There are acro cats who have been on insulin for a short time, months, and then went off insulin.... Gina and Chuck in Surrey, BC. Chuck went up to a couple shots at 6u then one at 7u, then he just went right off insulin. The only reason Chuck got tested was that he went to the same vet as Norma and her Tony. They tested him and shortly after, he went off insulin. Acro cats go off insulin if their tumor is not secreting growth hormone... my Oliver has been off insulin now for 1yr and 1day, and his dose was 21u when he started to drop.

Cushings Info
http://www.cat-lovers-only.com/cushings ... -cats.html Cushings
http://www.cat-health-guide.org/felinec ... sease.html Cushings further info

For the appetite, why not let him eat a bit more?

I can't comment on cushings, but you try asking Linda & Bearman; he had Cushings.

 

[Just-As-Appy]

I'm just wondering if she is on any pain meds. If her back legs are stiff she might find getting into the lb or squatting in it uncomfortable. Maybe I'm clutching at straws, but its probably worth reviewing all possibilities.