Info Calling all Caliper Users---Assistance Requested

We have enough members using different syringes now that I’d like to update the Dosing with Calipers post so new members don’t have to reinvent the wheel. To that end, I’d like to request the help of all those using calipers for dosing.

Could you please post the exact type of syringe you are using (e.g. Monoject U100, 0.3 cc, 31g, half unit markings) and what you measured in millimeters for 1u per the instructions in the above post.

As an example, I used Terumo, U100, 0.3cc, 31g, half unit marking syringes (no longer available) and my measurement was 1u = 1.52 mm.

The information will enable me to update the post so new members or members new to using calipers, can look up their syringe type on the post and the work will already be done for them. They can then easily make their own chart for their doses.

Thanks for your help and please keep bumping this baby up!!

 

I have 2 syringes

Monoject U100 30g x 5/16" needle 30 units 1/2 marks syringe (my favorite) on back order at ADW
1 unit = 1.25 mm.

Monoject U100 31g x 5/16" needle 30 units 1/2 marks
1 units = 1.24 mm

 

ReliOn U100 31g 1/2" needle 30 units with half unit marks - Walmart
1 Unit - 1.32

 

BD Ultrafine II 31g (in Canada), 1 unit = 1.15 mm

ETA: make that 1.5 mm. Been too long.

 

This is what I used too - but I have my measurement at 1 unit = 1.22 mm

But those are still very close.

 

Yes...that’s neglible.

 

@Sue and Luci what do you use?

 

Oh Marje this would be absolutely wonderful! I've actually had calipers for a few months now, but I just haven't gotten around to establishing my measurements. I'm sure I'm not the only one who's had that issue, sadly enough. I use CarePoint VET U-100 syringes (3/10cc 31G x 5/16") with half unit markings from ADW. I'll finally get off my behind and get those measurements so you can add my brand to the list.

 

Well maybe give it a day or so because I know there are others using CarePoint VET from ADW. Maybe someone will pony up their measurements

 

This post gave me the gumption, but my calipers aren't working right. You zero them out and it'll give you a measurement for a bit, but then it'll give me some number waaay off the mark, like -6.12mm instead of 1.20mm. I am so bummed right now, especially considering I didn't do it right away so I could return the thing and get a new one. I guess I'll be waiting for someone else to help out.

 

Make sure the calipers are closed when you 0 out. Might need a new battery even if they are new. Mine came with a dead battery.

 

Relion U100 31g 15/64" (very short) needle 30 units with half unit marks - Walmart
1 unit = .120
1.25 = .134 (current dose)
1.5 = .148
1.75 = .162
2 u = .176
Calipers from Amazon set to current dose.
Here are some photos of the syringe. Note the very short needle.
I'm filling my syringe. Shooting out a little to align the plunger.
Plunger aligned with lower lip of calipers. The last photo here is the final. Lower lip of caliper is aligned with plunger. We're ready to shoot when Luci has finished eating. Timer set to remind me syringe is ready!

 

Okay. I measure from the zero mark line.

To me in picture 4 you are shooting 1.25 units.

Doesn't look like calipers are lined up at the zero mark. Something is throwing me off and I can't figure it out.

 

It was my understanding that when you use the calipers, the top arm should be right under the hub , not over the hub.

 

@Sue and Luci try this.

Use a used syringe so you don't waste one. You don't even have to pull up any liquid.

Pull plunger back to 15u mark. Making sure calipers are closed and at zero, Measure from 10 u mark to 11 u mark. Try it again from 5 u mark to 6 unit mark. See what you get.

Something is throwing me off on your pictures, but I'm not an engineer or mathematician it could just be your syringes have that hub lip where mine do not have it.

 

I see a variety of measurements used for the same type of syringe - I think this is probably because we each have had to come up with our own measurements in the past. Just a few 100th's is hard to determine accurately. At least a list will help people be more consistent - especially those just starting and not yet understanding how to do their own calculation or don't trust themselves yet. At one time I had several different brands and made a huge list - it fell off my whiteboard a few months ago, I trashed it as no longer had that variety. That sure would have helped here.

For those left scratching their heads over the brand measurement difference, the size of the syringe barrel differs making the lines for a single unit vary also.

 

Taken from the Using Calipers

• In order to use the calipers correctly, the bottom of the upper caliper arm should line up perfectly with the plastic rings around the syringes where the zero line would be (the plastic ring might be located differently in syringes other than Terumos and Monojects). It might be off just a tad in the photos below but hopefully you will get the idea. Then the top of the bottom arm of the caliper should line up flush with the top of the plunger. Again...the Terumo is way off in the photo but the Monoject is pretty close so you can imagine what the Terumo should look like.

See how the top arm is below the "hub" not on top of the hub.

 

My thinking on this is that the zero line is "symbolic", not reality, because there is insulin all the way to the tip of the needle when you draw up a dose but that extra bit of insulin would be negligible. As long as you measure from the same location on the syringe each time, your dosing will be consistent and relatively accurate but it's never going to be 100% accurate. Obviously the shape of the individual syringes makes the measuring a little different for each make.

I didn't measure using the zero line. I found the zero line wasn't consistent and on some of my syringes was so close to the hilt on the syringe that trying to measure from the zero line consistently was impossible. Trying to position the calipers to align with it was problematic. I measured my 1unit with the tip of the upper arm of the caliper aligned with the bottom of the hilt with the calipers laying flat beside the syringe rather than trying to hold the calipers steadily above the syringe.

I was using BD II Ultrafine 31g (Canada) and measured 1.62 mm for my 1 unit measure.

 

I think what I am calling the hub of the syringe is what you are calling the hilt?

 

Important to note as well that Sue is measuring in inches, not mm.

As noted in my Calipers post, you can’t measure from the zero line that is marked on the syringe because, as you state, I found the zero line was sometimes down as far as where 0.25u is. You either measure from where it “should” be at the very top or needle end of the syringe or you measure between unit increments further down (e.g. between the 4 and 5u mark), as Paula suggested.

Your point is well taken, though, that if there is a “shelf” (for lack of a better word) such as Sue shows, it’s ok to use it as long as its consistent. My syringes didn’t have one like Sue’s; it was a tiny lip that the caliper arm would slide right off.

@Sue and Luci I really appreciate your post but I don’t know of anyone else measuring in inches vs mm. I want to be consistent and record all measurements in mm. I could easily convert your measurements but I’d have to be sure anyone using that syringe measures it with the top arm above the shelf and not below it as we normally do.

 

That is good to know. I always put my top caliper arm under the "shelf"

I am also measuring in inches as that is how DH set up my calipers. I am also using Relion syringes, but my measurements won't help Sue since my top caliper in under the "shelf"

 

Now I know two of you measuring in inches.

Can you pls post your measurement in inches and I’ll convert them for those who want to use mm. Thanks, Bobbie!

 

For Relion syringes using calipers set for INCHES ( Marje is going to convert to mm) I only have calculations to 2.25 units

1 unit = 0.050

ETA: @Marje and Gracie , would you like the rest of my calculations from 0.1 to 2.25 ?

 

Yes. The hub would be the connector of the needle to the barrel. On my syringes there is a wider "ledge" or "shelf" at the bottom of the hub which was referred to as the "hilt" when I was in nursing eons ago. Some syringes have one, some don't.

 

1.0U=1.50mm

ETA-I measure like the picture shown above in the post (#17) by @Bobbie And Bubba

 

I will be happy to do the same.

 

I think those are what I use? See my post above

 

Ok, just to reply to everyone. Yes, we're using inches, not mm's - will have to consult with DH on that. He's more comfortable with inches and since we're getting the same consistent dose either way I'm hoping to keep peace in the family. Happy to get the mm number conversions and will write them in the book we use to see what the digital numbers would be when we change the dose.

We both revisited the measuring today - with the calipers and as you have pointed out, we're measuring while resting the calipers on the hub...so we were not giving the dose as reported.

We found that when measuring with the hub we should add 14 points to our digital calculation. So for 1 unit our digital reading should be .134, for 1.25 (our current dose) the reading on the calipers should be .148

If I change it tonight to read .134 it appears that I've been dosing 1 unit when I thought it was 1.25/.148 - so tonight I'm going to give what I think is 1 unit .134 - which is what I have been giving her as calling it 1.25

I don't want to increase her dose tonight - but will do it tomorrow if she doesn't do anything fancy. DH feels it's easier to 'rest' the calipers on the top side of the hub/shoulder/lip whatever you call that little rim and then measure to the center of the plunger...

I'm starting to wonder if using calipers is making me crazy and I should just go back to trying to get to the lines on the syringes - I'm feeling rather overwhelmed about the whole thing at this point and am ready to throw my hands up and toss the calipers into the back of the drawer.

About the only positive thing I can say about the calipers - regardless of where I put them on the syringe - is that Luci does get the exact same amount of insulin from one time to the next. Heaven only knows what that amount is because by not 'counting' the width of the shoulder/hip/lip/rim - I've been saying one thing and meaning another...I guess Luci might know better what she's getting than I do....''''''sigh''''''

 

Is that in mm's?

 

Sue, I think it is the consistency that is the most important thing here. Here's an idea for you. Since I am using Relion syringes also and also measuring in inches, below will be my calculations for 1 unit and 1.25. Could you measure with the top arm of the caliper resting right under the hub and use my calculation for 1 unit and see how it compares to your calculation?

1 unit = 0.050
1.25 u = 0.0625

I am using inches also.

 

1 unit on my syringe - see numbers on calipers - in inches.

 

I think the difference in mine and yours is the way I am holding the calipers. DH is our model and see how the point of the top arm is resting right under the hub. In this photo my calculation for 1 unit ( 0.050) is pretty darn close to the 1 unit line.

Scroll up to post #17 and look at the way the calipers are being held.

 

That’s ok....with measurements for 1u, members can calculate each dose they need. I’ll post measurements in inches and mm since it seems there are a few people measuring in inches. Thank you!!!

Thank you and it’s absolutely fine if you are using inches instead of mm so don’t even worry about that. I can convert the numbers.

This is why I, personally, recommend that you not include the caliper reading on your SS. I never did; I just kept a chart with my syringes. Don’t worry about the fact that the measurement itself is different; what is most important is that the actual dose in the syringe is consistent. Just adjust your chart at home and you’ll be fine.

Make it easy on yourself! Calipers do give a more consistent dose so don’t stress over this. If it’s easier for you all to rest the arm on the shelf, my vote is “do it”. There’s no reason to let it overwhelm you so just keep doing what you are doing and breathe

 

Can you ask him to turn the syringe around? Is your next number a '5' or a '10' - mine is '5' - so I have a half-mark between the 4th unit and the 5 line...I'll get another pic of the calipers right under the hub - but I don't have a willing model right now..let's see what that looks like.

 

Yes, my next number is a 5 and I have a half-mark between 4 units and the 5 line. My hand model is no longer available.....

 

At this point I'm ready to throw in the towel. I have no clue what dose I've been giving her - except - it's the same dose until I say I've changed it...and it changed by .14 on my calipers - after that it's hopeless. I don't even know what to put on my SS tonight. I'm going to give her the same dose as I did this morning - at the same time - measured the same way.

Maybe tomorrow I can look at all of this with fresh eyes.

Basically I regret my contribution to this thread - highly unlikely that I will enter into this discussion again. Lesson learned.

 

bump

 

LMAO!!!

 

Don't do that. It's not worth it!

It doesn't matter what you call the dose. Yo can call it anything you like as long as you know how much you're dosing.

That's what's important... nothing else.

You're doing fine, Sue. Don't let all this caliper talk get you down!

 

Thank you Jill...Marje is going to help me - but for now - I'm just going to measure the way I've been measuring - Luci doesn't know the difference

 

Consistency is the key for calipers. You're right hun, Luci doesn't know the difference. And of its been working for you, just keep at it.

 

I've had this happen before. It is really easy to bump the door that covers where the battery is and knock it loose and that makes the measurements go wonky.

 

@Sue and Luci Consistency it the most important thing. It doesn't matter if you measure the dose the same as anyone else as long as you use the same measurement each time for your dose. I'm glad Marje is helping you.

 

@Marje and Gracie I use calipers with the CarePoint syringes, but I don't think my measurements are calculated like everyone else's. I can post them when I get home from work, but I don't want to confuse people. I couldn't figure out the math to calculate them, so I did it my own way. Let me know if you want me to post my measurements.

 

I also use those care point syringes and use 1 unit= 1.3 mm

 

How about PMing them to me so it doesn’t confuse anyone. I might be able to “convert” it to what everyone else is doing.

Thanks, Carla.

Your input is valuable and as Jill said, don’t let this get you down. I would not change anything you are doing because you’ve got it down consistent for Luci and that is all that matters. We will figure out, together, if anything needs to be changed and how to do it to keep it consistent for Luci.

 

bump

 

bump

 

bump

 

Does anyone have any measurements for CarePoint Vet U-100 Syringes 31G 3/10cc 5/16" - Half Unit Marks? I got them from ADW. TIA!

 

This just confused me even more... and I will probably regret asking this but
If you start at the "0" like.... wouldn't you not be accounting for the 0.1 units that is in the syringe from the first line through the hub to the needle?

 

Are these them?


Caliper measurements 1/8U (0.125) = 0.1875mm
1.5U = 2.25mm
1.375U = 2.0625mm
1.25U = 1.875mm
1.125U = 1.6875mm
1U = 1.50mm
0.9375U=1.406mm (15/16U)
0.875U = 1.3125mm (7/8U)
0.75U = 1.125mm
0.625U = 0.9375mm
0.50U = 0.75mm
0.375U = 0.4375mm
0.25U = 0.375mm
0.125U = 0.1875mm

 

@LizzieInTexas That's them! Thank you!

 

Reposting here as per suggestion...looking for measurement for 1 unit using u100 Trueplus syringes, I think they are new...thanks

http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/caliper-dosing-for-trueplus-syringes.226947/#post-2542141