Callie is changing from 2 units Novulin N to Lantus tonight. My vet said to use 2 units of Lantus.

[Glennie]

My kitty, Callie, is still wetting and drinking excessively on 2 units of Novulin N. After reading more about Novulin and Lantus, I opted to try Lantus rather than up her dosage of the N. Our vet said to give her 2 units, and I am wondering if that's too much for an 8 lb. cat.

I am working on testing and have almost made it several times, but each time I do something wrong or something goes wrong. I am also looking for 28G lancets as that has been suggested. The ones I have are 30G, and I can't seem to get enough blood with those. I have found 26G, but I don't know if those are too big.

Also after the testing attempts Callie won't eat for several hours so that's made it hard to keep trying. I will get it done, but right now I just need to get the insulin changed. I know that makes it hard to give advice, and maybe you can't. I am hoping though to get some feedback.

Thank you for any ideas.

 

[Chris & China (GA)]

I have found 26G, but I don't know if those are too big.

26G are fine!!

Make sure his ear is good and warm before you try to poke too

Without having a spreadsheet to look at and knowing how your cat has been responding to the Novolin, it's really hard to advise you on a Lantus dose, but generally, when the cat has been on another type of insulin first, we do take that into consideration instead of using the "starting formula" for Lantus

Has Callie had any trouble with hypo's on the Novolin? If not, I think I'd start at 1.5U of Lantus .....we don't want to drop back too much and risk having glucose toxicity set in (where the body spends so much time in higher numbers that it takes even more insulin than it would have to get results because the body has had time to get used to living in those higher numbers)

Also, has Callie ever been diagnosed with DKA?

 

[Glennie]

26G are fine!!

Make sure his ear is good and warm before you try to poke too

Without having a spreadsheet to look at and knowing how your cat has been responding to the Novolin, it's really hard to advise you on a Lantus dose, but generally, when the cat has been on another type of insulin first, we do take that into consideration instead of using the "starting formula" for Lantus

Has Callie had any trouble with hypo's on the Novolin? If not, I think I'd start at 1.5U of Lantus .....we don't want to drop back too much and risk having glucose toxicity set in (where the body spends so much time in higher numbers that it takes even more insulin than it would have to get results because the body has had time to get used to living in those higher numbers)

Also, has Callie ever been diagnosed with DKA?

Thanks so much for getting back to me about dosages. No, she hasn't had any trouble with hypo's.

She did a glucose curve at the vet's and her numbers fluctuated between 250 and 350. Someone mentioned the stress from the vet's could be causing those higher numbers. From the continuing excessive wetting and drinking though, I figure her numbers are higher than they should be. And that can only be figured out from home testing.

What is DKA? When she was first diagnosed she had a whole blood work up. Would DKA have shown up from that?

I will get the 26G's then. We did warm her ear really well, but thank you. I appreciate the advice.

I will start at 1.5 units then. And thanks!

 

[Linda and Scooter & Jack]

I use the 26 lancets all the time usually if I poke the ear first right on the edge and then load the meter by the time I turn around there is enough of a blood drop to test. Sometimes I have to massage it up a bit on both sides of the hole.
I am not going to give you dosing advice because @Chris & China give fabulous advice and she is on it!

I am sure you have done the reading and know that it will take a minute for the depot to build up so don't expect different numbers over night. My first kitty Scooter was on N when I got here and I am so glad I found this board and the folks here and changed to Levemir and now lantus. It gave me more time with my sugar kitties.

@Marje and Gracie will help you set up a Spreadsheet for easy recording as well if you ask.

 

[Chris & China (GA)]

What is DKA? When she was first diagnosed she had a whole blood work up. Would DKA have shown up from that?

DKA is diabetic ketoacidosis.....it's very serious and requires hospitalization so if you'd dealt with it, you'd know

We do really depend on our spreadsheet program so it's important to get that set up and start recording the test results you get from now on....Here are the Instructions for setting up the spreadsheet

You want to always test before shooting to make sure they're high enough for insulin and then if at all possible, get a mid-cycle test on the AM cycle (like between +5 and +7) and a "before bed" test at night. Most cats go lower at night so it's important to get that test in on the PM cycle so you can keep Callie safe

If you have any trouble setting it up, I'd be happy to do it for you too....Just send me a private message by clicking on my name and choose "start a conversation" so I can get some details if you'd like some help

Here's something I wrote up for others that needed help with testing...maybe it'll help you too! (substitute "her" for "him"...LOL)

It can be really helpful to establish a routine with testing. Pick one spot that you want your "testing spot" to be (I like the kitchen counter because it's got good light and it's at a good height....it also already blocked 2 escape routes due to the wall and the backsplash) It can be anywhere though...a rug on the floor, a table, a particular spot on the couch...wherever is good for you. Take him there as many times a day as you can and just give his ears a quick rub and then he gets a yummy (low carb) treat. Most cats aren't objecting so much with the poking..it's the fooling with their ears they don't like, but once they're desensitized to it and learn to associate a certain place with the treats, they usually start to come when they're called! Or even when they hear us opening the test kit!

You also have to remember...you're not poking him to hurt him...you're testing him to keep him safe and understand what's going on inside his body. There's just nothing better than truly understanding what's going on inside your kitty's body and with this disease, the more knowledge you have, the more power you have against it. The edges of the ears have very few pain receptors, so it really doesn't hurt them. Also, if you're nervous and tense, it's going to make your kitty nervous and tense too. As silly as it might seem, try singing! It forces you to use a different part of your brain!

It's also important to make sure his ear is warm. A small sock filled with a little rice and microwaved or a small pill bottle filled with warm water (check temp against your wrist like you would a baby bottle) works well.

When you're first starting, it's also important to use a lower gauge lancet, like 25-28 gauge. Most of the "lancet devices" come with 33 gauge lancets and they are just too tiny to start with. The bigger lancets (that are lower numbers) make a bigger "hole". As you poke more and more, the ears will grow new capillaries and will be easier and easier to get blood from...we call it "learning to bleed"

Finding the right "treat" will be a great help too! Freeze dried chicken, bonito flakes, little pieces of baked chicken...whatever low carb treat you can find that he really enjoys will help him to associate the testing with the treat! China's Achilles heel was baked chicken, so I'd bake a piece, chop it into bite sized pieces, put some in the refrigerator and freeze the rest to use as needed. It didn't take long for her to come any time I picked up the meter!

 

[Marje and Gracie]

I can quickly do the SS for you and will send you a message so p,ease check your inbox (upper right corner of this page...just click on it).

One thing about the dose.....if you know she has not seen any numbers below 200, I'm not sure I'd cut the dose back to 1.5u. But that's only if there has been enough testing to know. If you've gotten numbers below 200 or the vet has, on 2u, but they've been closer to (but not above) 200 than 100, I would try 1.75u although it is best to have 0.5u marked syringes.

If the only testing has been at the vet's with the curve, then I'd go with Chris's suggestion of 1.5u although the wetting and drinking excessively, I bet the 2u has not had much effect. Still...safety first. We can always fast track.

 

[Glennie]

I use the 26 lancets all the time usually if I poke the ear first right on the edge and then load the meter by the time I turn around there is enough of a blood drop to test. Sometimes I have to massage it up a bit on both sides of the hole.
I am not going to give you dosing advice because @Chris & China give fabulous advice and she is on it!

I am sure you have done the reading and know that it will take a minute for the depot to build up so don't expect different numbers over night. My first kitty Scooter was on N when I got here and I am so glad I found this board and the folks here and changed to Levemir and now lantus. It gave me more time with my sugar kitties.

@Marje and Gracie will help you set up a Spreadsheet for easy recording as well if you ask.

Good to know the 26G are okay. Also really good to know that the Novulin to Lantus switch was a good one for you. That makes me feel like I'm making the right decision for Callie.
Thanks also for sharing that Chris gives fabulous advice.

I am going to keep Marje and Gracie in mind when I do the spreadsheet. Also thanks for going over your testing process.

I know what you mean about being glad you found this board and the whole FDMB site. I can't say how much it has helped me with this whole overwhelming situation. Makes it more doable. So thanks!

 

[Glennie]

I can quickly do the SS for you and will send you a message so p,ease check your inbox (upper right corner of this page...just click on it).

One thing about the dose.....if you know she has not seen any numbers below 200, I'm not sure I'd cut the dose back to 1.5u. But that's only if there has been enough testing to know. If you've gotten numbers below 200 or the vet has, on 2u, but they've been closer to (but not above) 200 than 100, I would try 1.75u although it is best to have 0.5u marked syringes.

If the only testing has been at the vet's with the curve, then I'd go with Chris's suggestion of 1.5u although the wetting and drinking excessively, I bet the 2u has not had much effect. Still...safety first. We can always fast track.

 

[julie & punkin (ga)]

One little tip - it takes a couple of weeks of poking for the ear to grow more capillaries. You probably aren't doing anything wrong. Everyone has trouble in the beginning. I would poke all the way through Punkin's ear and still wouldn't get blood. Your poking is stimulating the growth of more capillaries and in a couple of weeks you'll get blood every time.

Here is a link to a thread that refers to many of the things we reference on this group. It can help you find your way to information on this group, too. "Where Can I Find?"
On that page is a section with extra tips for people starting out. Here are the ones that specifically about testing and shooting tips.
Testing & Shooting Tips: here and here

Glad to have you here! The spreadsheet is an essential tool that we use so definitely ask for help if you can't get it up right away. It really helps anyone giving you advice.

 

[Glennie]

Again, thanks for your sweet offer of doing the SS for me, and once I start testing, I will get you the info you requested. And that's the problem--I'm not sure of numbers because the only successful testing was the glucose curve. I'm getting the 26G tomorrow and will work on testing again.

I do have the 0.5U marked syringes so that will help if I have to do the 1.75U. I appreciate your help and advice.

 

[julie & punkin (ga)]

There are tons of testing tips on those 2 links (above), but if you run into any trouble, people here will be happy to help you get going. Cat's blood sugar fluctuates, so testing is really the only way to keep them safe.

Let us know how we can help you!

 

[Glennie]

There are tons of testing tips on those 2 links (above), but if you run into any trouble, people here will be happy to help you get going. Cat's blood sugar fluctuates, so testing is really the only way to keep them safe.

Let us know how we can help you!

Thank you. I really appreciate the help.

 

[Glennie]

One little tip - it takes a couple of weeks of poking for the ear to grow more capillaries. You probably aren't doing anything wrong. Everyone has trouble in the beginning. I would poke all the way through Punkin's ear and still wouldn't get blood. Your poking is stimulating the growth of more capillaries and in a couple of weeks you'll get blood every time.

Here is a link to a thread that refers to many of the things we reference on this group. It can help you find your way to information on this group, too. "Where Can I Find?"
On that page is a section with extra tips for people starting out. Here are the ones that specifically about testing and shooting tips.
Testing & Shooting Tips: here and here

Glad to have you here! The spreadsheet is an essential tool that we use so definitely ask for help if you can't get it up right away. It really helps anyone giving you advice.[/QUO

DKA is diabetic ketoacidosis.....it's very serious and requires hospitalization so if you'd dealt with it, you'd know

We do really depend on our spreadsheet program so it's important to get that set up and start recording the test results you get from now on....Here are the Instructions for setting up the spreadsheet

You want to always test before shooting to make sure they're high enough for insulin and then if at all possible, get a mid-cycle test on the AM cycle (like between +5 and +7) and a "before bed" test at night. Most cats go lower at night so it's important to get that test in on the PM cycle so you can keep Callie safe

If you have any trouble setting it up, I'd be happy to do it for you too....Just send me a private message by clicking on my name and choose "start a conversation" so I can get some details if you'd like some help

Here's something I wrote up for others that needed help with testing...maybe it'll help you too! (substitute "her" for "him"...LOL)

It can be really helpful to establish a routine with testing. Pick one spot that you want your "testing spot" to be (I like the kitchen counter because it's got good light and it's at a good height....it also already blocked 2 escape routes due to the wall and the backsplash) It can be anywhere though...a rug on the floor, a table, a particular spot on the couch...wherever is good for you. Take him there as many times a day as you can and just give his ears a quick rub and then he gets a yummy (low carb) treat. Most cats aren't objecting so much with the poking..it's the fooling with their ears they don't like, but once they're desensitized to it and learn to associate a certain place with the treats, they usually start to come when they're called! Or even when they hear us opening the test kit!

You also have to remember...you're not poking him to hurt him...you're testing him to keep him safe and understand what's going on inside his body. There's just nothing better than truly understanding what's going on inside your kitty's body and with this disease, the more knowledge you have, the more power you have against it. The edges of the ears have very few pain receptors, so it really doesn't hurt them. Also, if you're nervous and tense, it's going to make your kitty nervous and tense too. As silly as it might seem, try singing! It forces you to use a different part of your brain!

It's also important to make sure his ear is warm. A small sock filled with a little rice and microwaved or a small pill bottle filled with warm water (check temp against your wrist like you would a baby bottle) works well.

When you're first starting, it's also important to use a lower gauge lancet, like 25-28 gauge. Most of the "lancet devices" come with 33 gauge lancets and they are just too tiny to start with. The bigger lancets (that are lower numbers) make a bigger "hole". As you poke more and more, the ears will grow new capillaries and will be easier and easier to get blood from...we call it "learning to bleed"

Finding the right "treat" will be a great help too! Freeze dried chicken, bonito flakes, little pieces of baked chicken...whatever low carb treat you can find that he really enjoys will help him to associate the testing with the treat! China's Achilles heel was baked chicken, so I'd bake a piece, chop it into bite sized pieces, put some in the refrigerator and freeze the rest to use as needed. It didn't take long for her to come any time I picked up the meter!

A LOT of great tips! Thank you so much!