Buttons - 07/01

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Victoria & Buttons

Victoria & Buttons

Member Since 2012
Buttons has now been on Levemir for almost a month. Its only been about 5 days since I eliminated all CAT dry food from the house. We still have dry DOG food, and if shes hungry, she nibbles on it. I'm trying to work out a feeding schedule right now to avoid that at all costs. As evident from her SS, her sugars are still pretty high. Would it be safe to go up to 1.5 UI?

Thanks! :)
 
Hi Victoria
Please know that I am new at Levemir also
I looked at your SS and I dont understand your numbers...only your colors
so that make it a little bit more difficult
BUt, if I were you I think I might increase to 1.25 and hold and seettle for a few days
and see what happens with that increase
 
Hey, sorry! I'm from Canada so thats why the numbers are different. If you go on my SS, at the bottom left corner, you should be able to click US mg_dl and I believe it converts the numbers for you. :)
 
Victoria & Buttons said:
If you go on my SS, at the bottom left corner, you should be able to click US mg_dl and I believe it converts the numbers for you. :)
Click to expand...
Cool! Never saw that before - SO much easier that clicking on my calculator icon and starting to multiple them out...

Yeah, looks like an increase is in order and 1.25 would be a 25% increase, so that is where I would go next. She may be going to need more insulin because of the dry dog food. How much are you feeding her total per day? Just wondering if she needs more food or not (low carb, of course!).
 
Yes, it definitely is so much easier!

Because I'm trying to avoid her eating any dry dog food, I have been feeding her more through out the day. I use to feed her just morning and night, and leave some wet food on a plate so she can nibble. I would normally give her half a can of Special Kitty morning and night (156g total) and thats not including what she would munch on in the day. I'm still doing the half thing, but she seems to be hungry and begging for food every 2 to 3 hours. Today I was just winging it and giving her half to a quarter of a can about every 3 hrs. I honestly feel so lost about what times I should be doing and how much. She's gained some weight since diagnosis but I dont want her gaining much more. Sheila, if you have any suggestions at all, it would help greatly!
 
Since her numbers are continuing to be high- but you have only just changed your dose to 1.25. Can you give her 3 days to settle into it? You can see what Lev is doing if you can stay at the same level for a number of days. On the flip side, she is in the black and is staying there. I don't really feel I can give good advise on dosing as I have an acro cat and she is currently getting 10u BID and they are much different than regular cats.

Its been a week since you eliminated regular dry cat food, and I am assuming you are feeding low carb (how low? under 10%? under 5%). Sneakers had random high/low BG's from my random cans until I stuck with one %-age of canned (i/e/ 3% or 2%) for a whole week. Once I did that her numbers stabilized into a normal pattern because she happened to be so carb conscious it was unreal and me continuing to change her carb % intake sent her to the moon and back. So check that out. There are usually 4 or 5 different varieties in the same % so that you can give her difference without a carb change. Or you can do what I did at the beginning is buy a case of something she likes to eat and feed her only that. Also eliminate people food- or make sure it is 0% because that WILL raise her #'s- no milk, butter (unless its I can't believe its not butter), no cheese (unless its no/low fat and then its iffy), no ranch, cream cheese... all the stuff my Sneakers loved to eat with me :roll: .

As for the food... since her numbers are high she is probably still starving because her body is not yet getting the nourishment she needs. I would give her more food. Sneakers is currently eating 10-12oz/day (down from 18, so I'm lucky) and, while her numbers are usually in the yellows, she still isn't regulated enough to get what she can from food but better than she was before. And once the dog food is out of the picture her numbers should at least level out and then you can get a better picture on her levels.

heather
 
Good luck keeping Buttons from the dog food! Grayson will crawl to the ends of the earth to get dry kitty kibble or dog food. The other day he got trapped in the cabinet where the canisters are kept... he was stuck halfway in between the tracks where the upper shelves roll out from!!! AND HE WAS STILL on a mission to get into the cannisters!!! :o

With several "special needs" foodies in my house, the dogs get fed in the kitchen and Grayson in the dining room. Other cats in designated spots, some separated out from the others. No more "trough style" feeding where they graze all day. Once the majority of them has "left the table", food is picked up and put away (fortunately Grayson hasn't figured out how to open the microwave - although I've seen him studying it! :lol: )

That kind of makes it hard to allow them to free feed, but I've got to get more uniform feedings into Grayson. Will be looking into the auto feeders soon.

Just like Heather said, I stick with the same 2 varieties of FF - Classic Chicken & Classic Turkey & Giblets. No wild range from the food - that was one variable I was able to eliminate from the mix. I also keep track of it on his SS. That might be helpful for you to do, to see patterns. Right now he's eating about 6-3 oz cans per day. And that's a reduction from where he was... hoping to see MORE of a reduction soon!

Grayson is also acro and insulin resistant, so he's a high dose kitty and they are treated very differently from regular diabetics. Therefore I'll have to let someone w/ more knowledge assist you w/ the dosing (plus I've only been using Lev for a month - 5 months of ProZinc prior to that time). Good luck!

Lu-Ann
 
Ugh, thank you both so much for your input! It has helped me a ton!

Yes, I just upped her insulin to 1.25 today and plan on keeping her on that for a few days to see what it does. Yes I've been feeding her low carb. I've been trying just to keep it under %10. But everything that you said makes sense, about keeping her food about the same percent. I definitely need to look into that. Thanks! I dont give her any human food. The only time she gets some is my dad feeds the dogs morning and night and gives them some milk. If the dog doesnt gulp it down first, Buttons will have some. I'm trying to avoid it as best as I can, but its hard when your dad gets up to go to work at 4:30 in the morning. :shock:

Thank you both for telling me about how much your cats were getting a day. It gives me a good idea now where before I was just lost!

Lu-Ann Thank you for the good luck haha. She doesnt seem to go all out searching for the dry dog food, only when shes hungry. I'm hoping if I get her on a routine, she wont eat the dog food. The time she seems to sneak it the most is when I'm sleeping (smart kitty!).

So when you feed your cat, you stick to say all 3% carbs? Does it matter about brands? Would you rather stick to one brand and 3% or as long as its 3% it doesnt matter? Looking at Binkys food chart, it seems that not a lot of kinds of the same brand are under one specific number. Or is it okay to say pick ones that are JUST 3% and 2%? I hope that made sense haha ohmygod_smile

Plus I just found out yesterday that feeding a lot of seafood isnt recommended. I've been feeding her seafood, chicken, turkey and all that because to me, I wouldnt want the same kind everyday. So I'm trying to adjust that too.

Now I dont know if you know how to calculate carb content, but I was attempting to on the cans I already have. I believe your suppose to add everything on the label and then minus that from 100. Then you minus 100 and the moisture content and then divide those two numbers. But I got all confused because one can was way different then the other. Yikes!
 
Once Grayson decided the canned food wasn't torture :o he decided he likes it - in fact, he wolfs down a can (and used to rip my arm off cuz I wasn't opening it fast enough!) :lol: He doesn't appreciate being locked in a room without potential food to sneak, but it has made a difference on his numbers. Per a recommendation I got last night, I'm gonna try 1/2 cans at more frequent intervals. That will be easiest w/ an auto feeder, but for now, that would be ME! ;-)

Somewhere I read dates associated w/ Janet & Binky's food chart (2008 I think), and recently there was a post about changing the recipes of the food. I've never calculated the numbers myself - just took everyone's word for it, so I would be cautious to assume things always stay the same. That's another reason I don't change him up much. Fancy Feast Classic Pates: Grayson throws up after eating beef, so that pretty much limits him. I use the seafood varieties as a treat occasionally or when I'm doing a curve and want as little of a food spike as possible. Most of the seafood flavors give him a 0 point increase. But you are correct - you don't want to give them too much seafood.

I'll see if I can find the post about foods... BRB
 
If you are trying to stay below 10% now, how about trying to stay below 5-6%? Have you read the nutrition section on www.catinfo.org? She has a formula for calculating the carbs - which I can't ever remember.

She might need 1-1/2 of those cans of food right now. They are about 5.5ozs and a 10 lb cat needs about 6 ozs - or 200 clas. Most foods don't have the calorie content on the can, but a rough guesstimate is that a 3 oz can of food is about 100 cals. However, an unregulated diabetic cat can easily eat at least 50% more food. Both of my boys ate 9-11 ozs until regulated and then dropped down to 6-8 ozs.
 
I can't quite tell if the dogs are just fed early, or if the food goes down early and stays out all day. If it's the latter......One thing we did in my house is change everyone to a feeding schedule vs. free feeding anyone. The dogs and cats all eat at 5am/5pm. We have one dog that can be a bit finicky, but I think he knows now that if he doesn't finish his breakfast, we'll pick it up and he has to wait until dinner. Now, he almost always cleans his bowl!

I do from time to time give Boo more during the day to encourage a surf with a number - he's not "carb sensitive", but he is a glucagon producing monster..... so it just serves to hold him when he hits a good spot. Lots of people feed their kitties throughout the day. I think this is another one of those ECID topics. Once your more in tuned with how food affects Buttons, this piece will fall into line for you also.

Can you buy Fancy Feast in Canada? It was my easy go-to when Boo was first diagnosed and the Classic brands are almost all below 5-6%. I've since played around with a couple of other brands for "quality", but always seem to have some FF on my shelf (and it happens to be Boo's favorite) ;-) ;-)

You're doing great by the way :-D :-D
 
Victoria & Buttons said:
So when you feed your cat, you stick to say all 3% carbs? Does it matter about brands? Would you rather stick to one brand and 3% or as long as its 3% it doesnt matter? Looking at Binkys food chart, it seems that not a lot of kinds of the same brand are under one specific number. Or is it okay to say pick ones that are JUST 3% and 2%? I hope that made sense haha ohmygod_smile

Plus I just found out yesterday that feeding a lot of seafood isnt recommended. I've been feeding her seafood, chicken, turkey and all that because to me, I wouldnt want the same kind everyday. So I'm trying to adjust that too.
Click to expand...

I don't think it matters if you change from one brand to another- as long as they are in the same carb range you want it should be okay. As for seafood- it is the biggest selection you have for 0, 1, 2, &3% carbs. As long as you are mixing it up between chicken, and turkey I don't think that is a problem, either. Some cats get used to the flavor of the seafood and don't want to eat the other stuff anymore- also it is lower in protein (I think) and doesn't have all the nutrients that they really need to get on a regular basis so it is not recommended as a steady diet.

What i did at the start is buy three cases of the same carb% at a time and open them up and layer them- she goes through about 2-3 cans a day, so she gets a seafood, turkey, and beef liver each day, supplemented by 5-6oz of raw that I leave out frozen to thaw during the day in her feeder. As that is better for her, if it isn't eaten by the time I get home it goes onto her plate to eat just after her shot (sometimes she's sleeping and she doesn't get to the feeder before it turns). When I get low I buy another case of something in that range and layer again so she gets the variety and I only need to buy a case every week and a half now rather than two a week.

Hope this helps!
 
Thank you both for your input! I did end up going out and buying Fancy Feast instead of her usual Special Kitty. I got all confused when I got there and theres Pate, Grilled, and Sliced and then the whole carb content and all that. So I ended up doing like Lu-Ann and I just bought two kinds- Classic Chicken and Classic Turkey and Giblets. So far, she does like both so we're good, but I am wondering about trying to buy more variety or if its even worth it. Also they do have the cases that come with 3 flavors, and am not sure about those. Any tips?

Also, now with the diet change, I'm more worried about my insulin upping by .25. I know we're trying to get her numbers in the blue all the time, but I'm also scared of her numbers going to low at the +6 point. They were perfect today, but I'm just wanting some of your guys take on it. Should I just keep what I'm doing right now?
 
Yikes guys! I need your help. With this diet change, it seems to be doing a good affect on her, or too much insulin though I'm hoping for the first! I'm not sure where to go with this. Should I actually be decreasing now?
 
I would suggest letting her get into the same carb first- almost like getting into an insulin dose. It took about 3 days for Sneakers to stop bouncing so Buttons might be the same way- this is your chance to find out how sensitive he is to those carbs. Your sheet is what Sneakers was like on the initial diet of just low carbs (0-5%) in any order. Whatever you do, remember to keep her dose constant because if you change her food AND dose you don't really know what is going on.

Did you start feeding her the different food in the morning or the evening? Her AM mid test was spectacular but a 300pt drop is scary to see :shock: . She didn't rise as much to the PM shot and her PM mid test was a nice slow drop compared to earlier. When you get a chance you need to see how late her nadir actually is. For Sneakers it is actually around +8 or +9 rather than +6- so her morning could have potentially been lower than the +6.

But since you are changing her dose as well and we really can't tell if it is because of food or the drop in insulin. Find a happy medium and stick with it for a few days. You've done the 1u this morning so stick with that. If she continues to drop... we will see what Lu says :lol: .

You are doing great as a newbie. It took me months to figure this out and start to follow it as I'm passive-aggressive. Now I consider myself aggressive-passive when it comes to Sneakers and am working more proactively for her continued health.
 
Just like the shift when I went from dry to canned (I actually did this before I started insulin), he took about a week to transition - actually, I changed him cold turkey - it was about a week before he decided it was this or nothing. I SHOULD HAVE transitioned him gradually. I don't know that it will be much different from wet to wet, but the carb count may be something to "transition" as well. Maybe do 50/50 with the foods so it's not a complete drop would be helpful.

I used to get the variety pack, but Grayson doesn't hold the beef down, so that's why we stick w/ the turkey/chicken. If he could digest it okay, that would open up some other opportunities. But for now, he doesn't act like he knows he's missing out on more variety! And the seafood is still a treat for special occasions or days I'm running a curve and want as little influence as possible from the food.

It doesn't seem like it will be much impact, but it's amazing how much a few carbs difference can affect them!
 
Just checked her SS - nice blues! Going back to/staying with 1.0 is probably a good choice. lets see how she settles into the dose before you do any changing. There are others here w/ more experience on dosing, and I expect they'll be around to check in with you. My doses for Grayson are not even in the same ballpark, as there are different rules for Acro and Insulin Resistant cats for timing, increases and of course quanity. It still freaks ME out to shoot so much, so I can only imagine what "normal diabetic" beans think!

If it's possible to get some other mid-cycle tests, that's always encouraged. Gives you a good sense of where they're dropping. With ProZinc, Grayson nadired around 5; w/ Lev, it appears to be more around 7.5 or 8. I was first encouraged (on ProZinc) to test at 5 and 7. See which one was lower, and (let's say it was 7), then test at 6 and 8, to get a sense of where exactly he was nadiring. Then we tried to make that his regular test time, but work schedules and life sometimes dictate otherwise!
 
Two blues in 4 cycles! compared to the blacks Buttons has been living in that is Awesome!

changing the food has made a difference.
 
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