Buddy hypo'd ,ok now. dose help please

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Marci and Buddy

Marci and Buddy

Member Since 2009
Pmps was 140 and i shot his reg. dose, thinking shoot low to stay low,(guess i miscalled it and should hav reduced dose?)
because at +6 he was 35.gave karo and 4 oz. hc. This morning i reducd to 1.20u from 1.25u
based on his high amps, not the nadir(I know, I know, i forgot)...so now what to give him tonight?
maybe a fat 1?... but last week his #'s remained in pink at 1.20 U.
pm shot in 2 hours, advise very appreciated. thank you.
 
On the 30th I posted this (think it still applies):

As for the dose, that's a tough call. He was dropping pretty low on 1.3u. While it is possible that 1.25u is the dose, it could also be 1.1u. You could raise it to 1.25 and see if the numbers get better and then if he drops low on it, go the other way and try 1.1u
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(I just added the underline)

So, what do you think about trying 1.1u or 1.15u? Take him just the other side of 1.2u...

And for next time he drops to the 30s or 40s, know that he probably does not need HC and Karo. He may only need regular food, but make sure he eats - otherwise try HC and retest in 30 mins. If he is still dropping, then you can give some karo. Just note that he will bounce a lot from both the low number and the HC/Karo.

He will take a few cycles to settle back from the bounce and the lower dose. Just hold it for about 6 cycles - unless he drops low again.

(I just got a +6 of Jeddie and he was 39 so I fed some medium carb food and will retest in 30 mins. It does happen...)
 
that's what i thought, but good to hear it from you...a 1.1 is same as a fat 1, right?
good thing you are home now for jeddie's drop.
i know i dont need hc and karo, but i get too afraid not to give it-will try to refrain next time.
thanks, Sheila.
 
Well, in my syringes (GNP from Hocks) 1.1u would be with the top of the stopper at the middle of the 1u line, so not yet clearing the bottom of the line. Hope that helps.
 
I am not sure about the wisdom of shooting that 66 preshot yesterday though. That kind of makes me nervous with Buddy. I know there are others that do it, but I am just wondering if you are safely there yet with Buddy.

One thing you can do is hold off on the shot (and food) for 30 minutes and see if he is rising. I know you don't want to get too far off schedule.

Also, if you are going to shoot that low of a number try to get a +1 test in and a +2 to see which way he is headed.

Maybe you could get more of these +1 and +2 tests in anyway so we could see if he has a significant food spike or not. Then you could feel more safe shooting lower numbers. I know you got some of these checks in a while back but not so much recently.

Nice to see you are getting some of those late cycle tests in too so that you are able to see that he is on the rise. :)
 
actually the preshot # was 140, not 66-- although everything you wrote still holds true and i thank you for that.for sure will hold off half an hour to see next time.
 
Marci and Buddy said:
actually the preshot # was 140, not 66-- although everything you wrote still holds true and i thank you for that.for sure will hold off half an hour to see next time.
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I was talking about the morning preshot on Thursday of 66. I didn't notice you were a day behind on your spreadsheet. Thought it was yesterday. :roll:

I think you are doing a great job Marci. :)
 
i cant believe i did that either ohmygod_smile (shot into a 66), scares me just to read it, let alone do it-must have been preshot/precoffee.
Thanks for all your support, Pamela-you've been one of the people i count on.
 
I am much more concerned that he had a 66 for a preshot, than the 140 or the 30s in mid cycle. Or even that you shot those numbers. Live and learn, he didn't crash on the dose, but the next cycle is where the real results showed up.

A +12 preshot that low on a cat which has not had steady cycles is a huge red flag to lower dose. The "shoot low to stay low" needs to have the addendum: should only be done for cats who have steady numbers, all other cats use caution.

At least you have enough data to know you should not shoot that low until he has steadier cycles! That's why I say live and learn.

So where do you go with dose now? These doses (1.1, 1.2, etc) are Gandalf's doses. I am dealing with odd cycles with him right now myself. He had a 50 at a PMPS recently. I dropped dose considerably more than you guys are suggesting because again, you want to have room to move up when things settle.

I dropped his dose 30% from 1.3U to .9, then another 16%, from .9U to .75U, when he dropped from 319 to 127 on .9U in 4.5 hours. I based that on how I know his cycles usually play out and that was unusual.

In Buddy's case 1U is probably the highest dose you should use right now. I know you hate to see pink numbers and yes, they might stick around for a while at 1U. But what happens if the dose is a tad too high is the insulin builds up shed and eventually it fills up and spills over, which results in 66 at preshot. Unless you want to continue playing that game, the dose needs to be considerably lower than 1.2U or this will happen again.

At this point you're not working toward OTJ, you're just trying to find a good dose. In my opinion, too much emphasis is placed on OTJ and not enough on how to find the right dose FIRST. The Tilly protocol reads as if you should keep raising the dose till you see 40 or below. Yes, that will get cats there who have the possibility to go OTJ, but the better way is to create euglycemia - getting and keeping the BG levels to normal levels for as much of the cycle as possible. http://petdiabetes.wikia.com/wiki/Euglycemia

Yes, that's demands tight regulation for those who wish to debate that, but it's what works.

Sorry to place a soapbox in your thread. If something I wrote doesn't make sense please ask for clarification.
 
Marci, you are getting some great advice from these experts, I am shooting Alley lower than I thought I ever would also. I would go with Vicky's suggestion of a lower dose. It worked for me.

Good job,
I'll be keeping an eye on your progress.

Pam & Alley
 
Vicky et al -i have made a huge blunder-it was 266, NOT 66. :oops:
i knew that was wierd- i would be way to afraid to shoot a PS of 66.
i have been working all day and first chance i've had to go back and correct this-Pamela found this out by reviewing his SS-i had no idea i was mistaken. thank you so much for all your insights and support thinking it was a 66.
i'm really sorry to have had misleading info.The question i now have is...do i still go down to 1 u? i'm at a F1 now (5th cycle), and i have a feeling its not enough,that there may be room to move up still ,but could you please let em knwo if you think i shuld go back further down to 1 ? thanks very much and again so sorry.
 
All good. We all have a tendency to go cross-eyed looking at the meter when we're tired.

Yeah, I wouldn't go any lower since there was no 66. If you don't think the fat 1U is enough, maybe go to 1.2U as most likely your fat 1U is about 1.1U.
 
Marci and Buddy said:
ok , will do, thanks. so a 1.2 is the same as a thin 1.25, right?
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:lol:

Sorry, that just made me laugh. If it's more than what you called 1.1 and less than what you call 1.25, it's in the ballpark. Darn these syringes anyway! Why can't they make 1/10 cc syringes OR U40 Levemir? It would be SO much easier!
 
i know the importance of precision when it comes to dosing-i didnt think ballpark was good enough.wish i had your knack for it...well at least you got a laugh out of it- :smile:
 
Well, if the "ballpark" is .15u big, then somewhere in the middle of that is OK for where you are dosing now. If Buddy was getting only .2u and you needed to make a .5u change then the ballpark would have to be smaller. At least that is the way I look at it.
 
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