BUD AMPS 475 0.75u

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eeraby

eeraby

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More and more interesting.

Yes, Gator, she does seem to be eating more and has gained weight.

Will get a +4. More testing today?


Thank all of you for helping us think this through. We appreciate all the opions and help.
 
gator will like that nadar as it's just the right amount of drop. i always like to see green so i'd want to shoot it...but of course do not as i know you are very much wanting to work on a 12/12. plus she tends to nadar late so who knows what you'll have by +10 or +12.
 
Thanks for responding, Lori... a little disheartening to see ppl reading and not replying with their thoughts.

I've been trying all morning to find a Vet near Richmond, Va that *knows* about FD, but no luck.
 
beth it would be good to have a couple of phone numbers from willing people.
 
there are a lot of browsers around here but the people who are involved with the pz are not on as often as we were. sadly. i hope we are all back in time and have an active room again.
 
yes, I have a couple but they sleep when I'm getting up ;-)
would be nice to have some east coast, mid west folks... I so hate ppl that wake ppl up in the middle of the night! ~O)
 
:lol: well i'm not suggesting waking them up in the middle of the night...but still, we don't seem to have an east coaster but robin is in minnesota and gets up early. i think she might be willing to work with you. if you could at least change to 7/7? even then it would be 6am for her. why the necessity for 5/5 again? it seems early even if we do find an east coaster. for now while your home couldn't you change for a month than go back after february wher by then you'd know more and feel more confdent?
 
+8 141

sure... that's reasonable. Since she, most likely will be low # pmps @ 5... can wait to shoot at 9pm and then 9am.

Any idea how I can find a good FD vet??
 
Don't be disheartened! Often people read and don't have an immediate comment, or are headed out the door as soon as we can pull ourselves away from the board :lol: etc. Any # of reasons, so I wouldn't take it badly, in fact, I'd take it as good that people are following along.... YAY!!!!

Be careful on the phone #s all - I know Rebecca just put out a notice (up top if you haven't read it) about off-board counseling. I don't know how she feels about off-board moral support only (if one steered clear of dosing advice, etc.), and stuff like newbie visits, which I know are invaluable for people who really need some in-person help. If it were me and I were thinking of exchanging phone #s with anyone, I would shoot her a PM first and let her know what I had in mind and make sure it's ok with her. Just me :-D [ETA: I see she has softened her message since I first read it, so this may not be an issue afterall?]

As for a good FD vet, you could try posting on Community (?) and see if anyone has ideas. I know there are some out there, but I think it may be hit or miss depending on where you live. I think many of us have settled for a vet who is willing to work with us and who we have a good relationship with and trust for other reasons, and have let go of trying to find one who is really FD savvy.
 
To me it looks like another indicator the 0.75 is a little too much insulin..... not anything to be worried about right now, the #s are awesome, but that is the pattern/interpretation that I see. As far as I know it's a known PZI pattern (later drop to later nadir can indicate dose is too high), so weird on the one hand, but not on the other. On the plus side, looks like you will get your wish to be able to move to a later shot schedule?
 
Hi Beth,

I'm in Minnesota, did Lori say I was 1 hour ahead? Could you move to a 8am/8pm schedule? That would be 7 for me, I work full time and test/shoot Harley between 7 and 7:15 am & pm.

I have been MIA around here lately but I'm trying to stop by more. I havn't been following you very closely since you had Lori and Gator with you, you were in good hands. But if you need some morning company I can do that. I'll catch up on Bud Bud tonight.

Take care,
Robin
 
AMPS 475 0.75u +6 285 +8 141 +10 89 +12.5 109

All ya'll want to get together, figure out *why* and let me know?
Shall I wait another 3.5 hours for a +16 (will be 9pm my time) and then we decide what to shoot to get me on a 12/12 for 9am/pm?

:? :? :? :? :? :? :? :? :? :? :? :? :? :? :? :?
 
ok this cat is definetly 'special' and needs special attention. i wish we could have an eyes on SS think tank like discussion about her.
since i think it's p action and others feel is just late nadar and zoom...
gotta get robin in on this. joanna are you up for it?
 
Are these .75u doses on the U100 syringes or still using the U40s? It took me quite a while to start shooting .05u incriments. And many people have a hard time seeing that - so just thought I would ask?

I don't think that special - I think too high of a dose for BID dosing.
 
Re: BUD AMPS 475 0.75u +14 171

AMPS 475 0.75u +6 285 +8 141 +10 89 +12.5 109 +14 171

Any way for all of us to do some kind of conference call?

The 0.75 are with the U40s

Joanna... I'd be thrilled with "a vet who is willing to work with us and who we have a good relationship with and trust for other reasons." Wish I had one.


SERVER GOING DOWN TONIGHT YA"LL
 
I'm tucked in for the weekend to wait out the weather so I'm up for a ss think tank. Joanna? Gator?

Let me get up to speed on Bud Bud than I'm in.
 
ok, my feeling is the the dose is great on this day...too much insulin would result in too low of a number somewhere. this did'nt happen. i see this as a cat not built for the 12/12 but for the shoot as needed. she obviously gets going on the insulin and holds her own for awhile. kitty could have been shot at +14 171 but beth is waiting to +15 and shooting then. that is 9pm and if she shoots right than bud is not likely to be ready for another shot at 9am but maybe 11am or noon.
 
I wouldn't worry too much about dissecting every # and every cycle. The reality IMO is that it isn't a clear-cut illness and the #s are just a guideline more than anything else. I don't think it is essential to know exactly why some cycles are wonkier than others, or for all of us here to get consensus on what is going on. Of course those things would be nice... but... not gonna happen IMO. :-D

Bud is getting quite a lot of good #s, I would focus on that, and focus on where you want to go from here. If you want to shoot 12/12, I would pick the time that you want to use and go ahead and switch to that. If you want to ensure a shootable # at every +12 I think you will need to shoot a slighly lower dose (than 0.75) to achieve that.

I would also tend to focus on what you KNOW, rather than driving yourself crazy trying to figure out what you don't know. Most if not all of us have been in your shoes, and take it from me, you don't want to tear out all your hair like we did. Save a little for old age. :lol: My experience with FD is you will never have all the answers, and if you are getting pretty decent #s and your cat is doing reasonably well, then ... woohoo!!!!

I don't see any major mysteries here, in the sense that I think you have pretty decent #s and you have a fairly clear-cut range of doses that appear to be too low (0.2) and doses that are likely too high (anything over 0.75). I would continue with doses between those two ranges. I don't see any need personally to over-debate the 0.75u question. If you are comfortable with the results you are getting, then stick with that dose. If you would like to try something a hair lower like some of us have suggested, you try that and see what data you get. You may get results that are more in line with what you want for 12/12 and that are easier to work with, or you may find that you actually need the 0.75 to get good #s.

Bottom line IMO is that much of FD is about data collection and trial & error. You try something, get data, and then evaluate your next move. I don't think any of us can say beyond a shadow of a doubt what is going on. But if you try different things and get data, that is what will make it clear. If you try 0.6 or so and don't get good #s, well then we know she really does need more than that. If you try that and get pretty U-curves that are more in 12/12 pattern and perfect 150 PSs every cycle, then we know a slightly lower dose works better for her, at least from a 12/12 perspective. Won't know for sure til you try it.

I know it is frustrating not to have clear answers and explanations, but personally I don't think our debating the #s is going to give you an answer. Even if we all reached consensus, we could still be wrong. Interpretations are just interpretations.
 
Joanna...

You're absolutely right, of course:"it isn't a clear-cut illness and the #s are just a guideline more than anything else" ~But I *want* it to be clear cut :o

"focus on what you KNOW, rather than driving yourself crazy trying to figure out what you don't know." I've always driving myselt crazy trying to figure out stuff. and totally mad when stuff ain't logical.

"if you are getting pretty decent #s and your cat is doing reasonably well, then ... woohoo!!!!"
EXCELLENT advice. Amen.

Thanks, Joanna... feeling better about it.
 
well i think it's an interesting set of numbers and i liked figuring it out. if you don't fiogure it out how can you learn anything about the trends? at this stage of the game i think studying your chart is very important. ou certainly don't wantj to do it 6 months from now and count all the mistakes you missed from not learning as you go.
we already uncovered lots of good hints by going over the ss.
but don't give yourself a headache over it.
and yes, budbud is doing great.
 
I normally leave for work at 7:30 my time, but I'm home now until Monday.

Just from looking at your ss and not knowing any background here is my 2 cents.

Bud probably has a sputtering P, if you get her switched over to wet low carb food only she will likely go OTJ.

I looks to me like you are on a bg roller coaster. If you want to get to a 12/12 schedule you need to lower your dose and ride out the transition (stop shooting the numbers) and let her settle into the shootable dose and then start fine tuning it. That's how I regulated Harley. Take a look at his ss.

.75u and over looks like too much insulin to me. If Bud were my cat I would go with .4u for 3 to 5 days or until she's getting shootable PS's, getting mid cycle tests to see where and what her nadir is and go from there.
 
Yes Beth please look at Robin & Harley's SS! [I've been trying to goad Beth into this for some time now] ;-)

Robin, she did not get any traction with .6u. I think it is going to take at least .6u. But would like to see at least a few cycles of the various increments between .6u and .75u. So my idea is wait until she gets a higher PS then start in with .6u for a few cycles then .65 or even .7u. This all dependent on if Beth wants the 12/12 or not.

From what I understand Bud is already on the low carb wet [and we even got her to take up the dog food just in case!! :-D ]

Also I thought I would note that I think this is a great example of what I think ProZinc's "twitchyness" is [or small changes make big differences]. There is a very fine line between too much insulin and not enough - especially at low does like this and especially at the beginning.
 
Does it take a bit for a PM to leave your Outbox and get delivered to the recipient?

Gone to bed... thank you all for all the thoughts and time you've put into this today.
 
I agree, small dose changes make big differences. At first I thought .5u but she got too much traction on that at times. I guess I thought that the spikes were from sneaking contriban food or treats. Maybe not, but that's what those were for Harley even if I didn't realize it at the time.

So I thought that .4u was low enough to get shootable PS's and nice U curves even if they are a little higher, then we could fine tune from there.
 
PMs stay in your Outbox until they are picked up, then they go away. So in your Outbox = not read yet.

I agree on a slightly lower dose, but I'd caution not to stay long at a lower dose if you see solid non-blues & greens. When they stay at higher #s even for a couple cycles back to back, from what I have seen that often increases the insulin needs, so you may well then end up needing a higher dose temporarily to get the #s back down.

Again I think it's some trial & error, but personally I'd only keep a lower dose for 1 or 2 cycles tops if the #s are just going higher. If you try a lower dose and get decent #s - like nadirs in the blues but not greens, that's where I'd say it's ok to hold it a few more cycles and see where things settle. If PSs are creeping up, I'd act fast to raise the dose a hair. By a hair I'm thinking things like 0.05 or 0.1 units. With some cats teeny increments like that seem irrelevant, but Bud looks to me to be a sensitive gal, likes her micro-insulin-drops I'm thinking, if she can get little action off something like a 0.5, but mega action off a 0.75.

We are super fine-tuning here, so no hair-tearing required. :) In part, I think we are all excited to see a kitty getting such good #s. :mrgreen: I know it makes me at least itchy to make it all purrrrrrrrrrrrrfect!!!!! LOL
 
I have no dosing advice, will leave that to the others who know more. But those numbers look very good to me and I think you should be celebrating them!
 
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