BUD AMPS 128 - no shot; +6 431 .. Shoot?
- Thread starter eeraby
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Anonymous
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yes i would have shot but i'm also gonna run over to your SS to have a look. brb.
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Anonymous
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wow, interesting chart...do keep an eye on him today as he has at least once plummeted from that dose on a high #...perhaps give him a +3?
you realize you will be off schedule (which i don't think is important here) as you will likely not test shoot 12 hours from now,,,,or will you? :razz:
you realize you will be off schedule (which i don't think is important here) as you will likely not test shoot 12 hours from now,,,,or will you? :razz:
Joanna & Bix (GA)
Very Active Member
Ooooh, what a purrrrrrrrty SS, looks like a patchwork quilt LOL.
Just to be picky :roll: the +n numbers are hours after a shot, so +6 would mean you actually gave insulin at AMPS time. I think your shot was at +18 (?), i.e. an additional six hours from normal shot time. Just so no one (like me :lol: ) freaks out and thinks you shot 2x in a row close together.
Looks like he is doing awesome and you've got the as-needed dosing working pretty well, so kudos! Sending good thoughts for more pretty blues & greens (but not too green!) to come!!! YAY! :mrgreen:
Just to be picky :roll: the +n numbers are hours after a shot, so +6 would mean you actually gave insulin at AMPS time. I think your shot was at +18 (?), i.e. an additional six hours from normal shot time. Just so no one (like me :lol: ) freaks out and thinks you shot 2x in a row close together.
Looks like he is doing awesome and you've got the as-needed dosing working pretty well, so kudos! Sending good thoughts for more pretty blues & greens (but not too green!) to come!!! YAY! :mrgreen:
judy and squamee(GA)
Very Active Member
THe "+" indicates hours since the last shot. As Joanna suggested, if it was 6 hours after what would have been the AMPS and if that was at 12 hours after the last shot, then it would be written as +18.
Gator & H (GA)
Very Active Member
Yea I think you guys are doing OK. When you get those U100s going you will be able to balance things out a little better. Just remember that you objective is not to shoot an amount of insulin that brings them down from one high PS to the perfect lower PS. As long as you can drop them slowly over several cycles into the right territory then you are just fine. You can read my thoughts about the proper amount of lowering per cycle depending on the PS here:
viewtopic.php?p=300553#p300553
But you really need the U100s to start with that.
Fixed or consistent dosing is your other option in which case you would rely heavily on wait and test. viewtopic.php?f=24&t=32652
viewtopic.php?p=300553#p300553
But you really need the U100s to start with that.
Fixed or consistent dosing is your other option in which case you would rely heavily on wait and test. viewtopic.php?f=24&t=32652
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Anonymous
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sample...
25) amp 260 .5u 6am
+6 87
+9 111
pmps 120----no shot 6pm
+14 142
+16 228 .25u
26) am+8 109----no shot 6am
+10 147
+12 210 .25u
+4 100
+6 85
+10 106
pm+12 132----no shot
this is an example of keeping track of the + hours and also of shooting as needed....if anyone carefully examines bud's SS there were a few missed shots becuase of low numbers that could have been shot 2 or 3 hours later and beth is home and can do this to avoid those pinks and reds.
25) amp 260 .5u 6am
+6 87
+9 111
pmps 120----no shot 6pm
+14 142
+16 228 .25u
26) am+8 109----no shot 6am
+10 147
+12 210 .25u
+4 100
+6 85
+10 106
pm+12 132----no shot
this is an example of keeping track of the + hours and also of shooting as needed....if anyone carefully examines bud's SS there were a few missed shots becuase of low numbers that could have been shot 2 or 3 hours later and beth is home and can do this to avoid those pinks and reds.
Gator & H (GA)
Very Active Member
I'm no good with those split dosing scenarios. When are you intending to shoot again?
BTW you can add comments in a cell of a SS by right clicking on the cell.
BTW you can add comments in a cell of a SS by right clicking on the cell.
eeraby
Active Member
I don't know when again, Gator. I just plan on testing and testing.... and see what the numbers are.
She went up 300 pts (3.5x her amps) in 6 hours. and was +18 ... woulda been 6 more hours before her normal shot. No one was here to reply, so in 30 min., I went with my gut to shoot.
Didn't really think about 'what/when' next at the time. Figured future decisions would be based on #s.
New territory for me here. and I've only been at this 23 days.
...... and hyperventalating.
She went up 300 pts (3.5x her amps) in 6 hours. and was +18 ... woulda been 6 more hours before her normal shot. No one was here to reply, so in 30 min., I went with my gut to shoot.
Didn't really think about 'what/when' next at the time. Figured future decisions would be based on #s.
New territory for me here. and I've only been at this 23 days.
...... and hyperventalating.
Gator & H (GA)
Very Active Member
Hmmm OK yes they would be based on numbers. The problem is that +6 is going to be your normal PMPS time. +6 is normally peak action time for the inulin.
One thing that we frequently advise here is to only shoot on a rising number. If you can do that that will keep you out of a lot of problems. Like many of the "rules" in here that's not a set in stone kind of thing. It's just something too keep in mind.
You could capitalize on PZI "flexibility" here and start moving shot time back to whenever the normal shot time would be. At your stage I would hesitate to do this more than 2 hours per cycle. So tonight you *could* shoot at +10. Usually we say to try to move the shot time around in 1/2hr slot per cycle. But that's really conservative.
If you do shoot early tonight then you will most likely need to be shooting a reduced dose that will depend on the numbers. I would say that if the numbers are above 150 then you could at least shoot 0.2u [usually thought of as a "token dose"]. And at least .5u above 200. We would like to not give so much that you guys are consistently having to no-shoot, The next time you guys are thinking about shooting .75, try shooting .6u. As I said it is OK if we bring down the PS to PS numbers slowly. Now if you give .6u and the PSes keep going up then you likely need to increase a little - maybe .7u. But I doubt that. If you want the drop to slow down a little then you can give .4u or something like that. The +6 testings will help you understand what you can safely get away with.
That .75u dose is more that your ceiling dose for right now that you KNOW will bring the numbers down. And usually a bit too much.
Hope I'm making sense.
See your PM.
One thing that we frequently advise here is to only shoot on a rising number. If you can do that that will keep you out of a lot of problems. Like many of the "rules" in here that's not a set in stone kind of thing. It's just something too keep in mind.
You could capitalize on PZI "flexibility" here and start moving shot time back to whenever the normal shot time would be. At your stage I would hesitate to do this more than 2 hours per cycle. So tonight you *could* shoot at +10. Usually we say to try to move the shot time around in 1/2hr slot per cycle. But that's really conservative.
If you do shoot early tonight then you will most likely need to be shooting a reduced dose that will depend on the numbers. I would say that if the numbers are above 150 then you could at least shoot 0.2u [usually thought of as a "token dose"]. And at least .5u above 200. We would like to not give so much that you guys are consistently having to no-shoot, The next time you guys are thinking about shooting .75, try shooting .6u. As I said it is OK if we bring down the PS to PS numbers slowly. Now if you give .6u and the PSes keep going up then you likely need to increase a little - maybe .7u. But I doubt that. If you want the drop to slow down a little then you can give .4u or something like that. The +6 testings will help you understand what you can safely get away with.
That .75u dose is more that your ceiling dose for right now that you KNOW will bring the numbers down. And usually a bit too much.
Hope I'm making sense.
See your PM.
Gator & H (GA)
Very Active Member
So if you ARE thinking about shooting at +10 tonight to start to move things back then try testing at +9 or so just to make sure you have rising numbers.
Gator & H (GA)
Very Active Member
Basically right. Don't shoot at the normal 5p tonight. Wait until 10 hours past her last shot.
I'm hoping to get a PS [at +10] tonight over 150. If you have her .2u at 150 tonight I will almost guarantee you she will be much higher in the morning just because .2u is likely just to slow any rise.
So 9.30pm - where are you approx?
How much you shoot depends on where she is at. The MAX I would shoot is .6u - save that if she is over 300. .5u if over 200 or so. If over 150 - 200 .2 - .4u depending on how close to 150 she is. Under 150 is like a big ?? at this point. I think that is a wait and test scenerio.
I'm trying to be a hair conservative here because we are shortening the cycle period.
Try to get that +9 or so.
The objective here is to use a small range of doses to keep you kitty in good numbers as much as the time as possible. At first you can set the goal to keep her under 300 then you can move that down to try to keep her under 250 then eventually one you really get the feel of things you can probably try to keep her under 200 most of the time.
If you haven't do take a look a Rob & Harley's SS. to see what I'm talking about.
memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=232
or you can look too at our SS [make sure to check the tabs at the bottom]
https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key ... XYwVFJ4M0E
Ours is not quite as straight forward because H was dealing with appetite swings from cancer and pancreatitis. So you will see a lot of appetite notes in mine. And many of the dosing decisions were influenced by that.
But these two S represent examples of successful variable dosing with ProZinc. If you are interested I can explain my decisions more. But they generally follow the "rules" I set out earlier to you about dropping from PS to PS slowly - finding the right dose that will drop the next PS the amount you want based on the PS you just took. Of course it's rare when things just just right to the plan but it's just some concepts to keep in mind.
And for you I would like to try to avoid shooting below 150 for right now. But as you saw I shot as low as 100 but it just takes time to get the data to feel ok about that.
I'm hoping to get a PS [at +10] tonight over 150. If you have her .2u at 150 tonight I will almost guarantee you she will be much higher in the morning just because .2u is likely just to slow any rise.
So 9.30pm - where are you approx?
How much you shoot depends on where she is at. The MAX I would shoot is .6u - save that if she is over 300. .5u if over 200 or so. If over 150 - 200 .2 - .4u depending on how close to 150 she is. Under 150 is like a big ?? at this point. I think that is a wait and test scenerio.
I'm trying to be a hair conservative here because we are shortening the cycle period.
Try to get that +9 or so.
The objective here is to use a small range of doses to keep you kitty in good numbers as much as the time as possible. At first you can set the goal to keep her under 300 then you can move that down to try to keep her under 250 then eventually one you really get the feel of things you can probably try to keep her under 200 most of the time.
If you haven't do take a look a Rob & Harley's SS. to see what I'm talking about.
memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=232
or you can look too at our SS [make sure to check the tabs at the bottom]
https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key ... XYwVFJ4M0E
Ours is not quite as straight forward because H was dealing with appetite swings from cancer and pancreatitis. So you will see a lot of appetite notes in mine. And many of the dosing decisions were influenced by that.
But these two S represent examples of successful variable dosing with ProZinc. If you are interested I can explain my decisions more. But they generally follow the "rules" I set out earlier to you about dropping from PS to PS slowly - finding the right dose that will drop the next PS the amount you want based on the PS you just took. Of course it's rare when things just just right to the plan but it's just some concepts to keep in mind.
And for you I would like to try to avoid shooting below 150 for right now. But as you saw I shot as low as 100 but it just takes time to get the data to feel ok about that.
Joanna & Bix (GA)
Very Active Member
With so many good #s already on the table, I would focus on as-needed dosing to stay in blues & greens as much as possible. If it were me and my schedule permitted, I would pick a no-shoot I felt comfortable with, 150, 180, or 200 depending on my comfort level, and try a lowered dose for the lower PS, maybe 0.4, and see what I get at +4 and +6. If I am hitting nadirs in the 80 zone give or take 20 points, then I'd stick with that dose. If the nadir is higher or lower, then I'd adjust the dose accordingly. And then try to get the next point where he has risen to my target PS, and then shoot again with the adjusted dose. If the PS is a lot higher, then I'd get closer to the 0.75 dose, maybe 0.6 or 0.7.
Personally I would only go as low as 0.2 if you have a low PS and cannot test midcycle, or if you are shooting earlier than +10 to get on a different schedule. If you can spot test in the early half of the cycle, I'd go for 0.4 or 0.5 on a PS over 150 and a shot time at +10 or later. You are seeing such awesome #s, if I could stomach it in your shoes, I would make my goal to shoot for perfect nadirs, and catch the PSs above 150 but hopefully not much above 200.
It's a bit more aggressive approach, and not practical if you are not home to test much, or need to stick to a normal schedule. The #s are good enough though that I think if you keep him in solid blues & greens, and just a few yellows, for a few days, you might see some progress. [anti-jinx!]
No need to hyperventilate, things are going awesome & you are doing great! It is stressful & scary, but I think you are well-positioned. 'Nuf said. :mrgreen:
Personally I would only go as low as 0.2 if you have a low PS and cannot test midcycle, or if you are shooting earlier than +10 to get on a different schedule. If you can spot test in the early half of the cycle, I'd go for 0.4 or 0.5 on a PS over 150 and a shot time at +10 or later. You are seeing such awesome #s, if I could stomach it in your shoes, I would make my goal to shoot for perfect nadirs, and catch the PSs above 150 but hopefully not much above 200.
It's a bit more aggressive approach, and not practical if you are not home to test much, or need to stick to a normal schedule. The #s are good enough though that I think if you keep him in solid blues & greens, and just a few yellows, for a few days, you might see some progress. [anti-jinx!]
No need to hyperventilate, things are going awesome & you are doing great! It is stressful & scary, but I think you are well-positioned. 'Nuf said. :mrgreen:
Joanna & Bix (GA)
Very Active Member
Re: +18 431 0.75u; +3 375
I think you did the right thing, maybe I'm missing something? +3 drop should be due to the insulin, good sign it is starting to kick in, and at a +18 you would definitely want to shoot on a 431, that # is not going to fix itself without some insulin added in.
eeraby said:
I think you did the right thing, maybe I'm missing something? +3 drop should be due to the insulin, good sign it is starting to kick in, and at a +18 you would definitely want to shoot on a 431, that # is not going to fix itself without some insulin added in.
Gator & H (GA)
Very Active Member
I'll try to be around just before 6.30p Pacific. I think that should be your 9.30p. Any of you other pacific-ers are welcome to!
Gator & H (GA)
Very Active Member
probably nothing - maybe .2u if you felt you really needed to shoot something. And the number is technically falling so... another good reason not to shoot.
If nothing, hold off until regular shot time in the morning. Then don't overdo it with another .75. Try a .6u if she is over 250. Or maybe .5u if she is closer to 200.
Get some sleep is my suggestion.
We just want to avoid the rubber band thing that's going on now. The way to do that is to avoid shooting 'too much' so that you have to ship shots. If she goes high hopefully we can bring her down slowly over a couple cycles rather than doing it all at once with a larger dose.
If nothing, hold off until regular shot time in the morning. Then don't overdo it with another .75. Try a .6u if she is over 250. Or maybe .5u if she is closer to 200.
Get some sleep is my suggestion.
We just want to avoid the rubber band thing that's going on now. The way to do that is to avoid shooting 'too much' so that you have to ship shots. If she goes high hopefully we can bring her down slowly over a couple cycles rather than doing it all at once with a larger dose.
Gator & H (GA)
Very Active Member
You don't know what she eats at night? Hopefully it is LC cat food only! :smile: She can have food that's fine. Cats can deal with high number for a little while. And you will have her out of there in no time.
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