Brody - Newly diagnosed

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BrodyCat

BrodyCat

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Hi. I found this board last week after my 7.5 year old cat was diagnosed with diabetes. My dad had Type 1 diabetes and when Brody started drinking and urinating excessively, I remembered my dad talking about his experience and the onset of his diabetes. Fortunately Brody only had symptoms for 2 weeks before I had him at the vets. He is on 1 unit of proZinc twice a day and goes in for his first curve next week. His diet is 2/3 canned and 1/3 dry but I am going to talk with the vet about eliminating the dry food completely. I know low carb is the key, but Brody had an olive sized urate blader stone removed 6 months after we adopted him and urinary crystals a year later. So he really needs to be on a low phospherous diet that is not too high in protein. I originally fed him Innova Low Cal canned food and Wellness Indoor Cat Heatlh dry food. But that gave him the crystals. So I did switch to the Hills k/d and yes, I know how people feel about it, but he eats it and until the diabetes, it was the only thing that didn't cause other problems.

Brody is a large frame cat we adopted when he was estimated to be 5 years of age. He is a wonderful cat, front declawed and he must have come from a loving home. Given his issues, I'm beginning to think maybe he was a bit too much financially for his previous owners that was turned out to the streets where he was picked up as a stray. He was 16.5 pounds when we got him and now weighs 15.3. He has always been on a tight portion controlled diet and fed twice a day to help control his weight. I do not currently home test due to my intense fear of needles. I wasn't sure if I could even due insulin shots but have even surprised myself. I hope to get to that point soon. For now I just take it one shot at a time.

I have a learned a lot from this site and want to thank everyone for taking the time to share information and experiences. I have poseted a pic of Brody on the FB site. If anyone knows of a canned food low in phosperous like the k/d, please let me know.

Thanks - Mickie and Brody
 
I use to be scared to death of needles too but I had to get over it for my Trouble. Trouble has long passed away (NOT diabetes related) but I'm still here. You are stronger than you know. I bet you over come your fears, to help your baby. AND you have found the BEST place on this planet, to help you help your kitty. WELCOME

Best wishes,
jeanne
 
Welcome Mickey and Brodie,

You are in the right place to get answers, unfortunately, I don't have many :? , but someone (many someones) will. I do know it's a balancing act to feed a diabetic cat with urinary issues, but there are folks here doing it and they will be able to help you.

The testing won't be as hard (for you) or as traumatic (for Brodie) as you fear. But it will ensure the safety of your boy. Giving insulin blind is dangerous. If you can give the shots, you will be able to do the testing. When tests always come with treats and a special loving session, the kitties quickly get with the program. My Weezer will rise from sleep and come to her testing spot when she hears me rattle the testing strip container.

Again, welcome! I look forward to sharing the feline diabetes dance with you.
 
Mickie and Brody,

Welcome aboard! I was wondering if Friskies special diet would work? Seems that I used that for my Gumpy (not diabetic) but my Bean (diabetic) could eat that as well. The link for the food list is where I received my info for both kitties to be able to eat.

What were Brody's numbers from the vet?

I know that the whole testing sounds sooo scary and guess what? It is, at first....

You might just want to bond with Brody while you are getting your courage up to test..... Lap time, rubbing the ears, speaking wonderful love words, treats for pokey poke time only. When I received my kit for home testing, I got the lancet pen out, but did not put the lancet in it. I would put Bean in my lap (she is only a lap cat when she wants to be), pet in small amounts, love words and treats - 2 or so. Then I would warm the ear with the rice sock, and I would hold the pen to her ear and click it, treats again. We did this for a while, not only for her to get used to, but for ME - lol....Boy, I would be sooo nervous, and I know she knew that too. Finally, I decided to insert that 'thing' and try it the real way. It took about 5 times before I was able to get a reading...practice does make this doable...And she was such a great girl and tolerated her momma..treats again :razz:
Now, the part of the story that I feel is so important...this test was only 2 hours after her shot and she was only 27... Of course, it was well after the vet had closed. What was I to do??? I got on this forum and everyone here helped...posting and speaking to me on the phone for over 4 hours. They helped me bring Beans numbers back up...to around 43ish....THANK GOSH! Hypo kit was administered. Feel free to visit her spreadsheet in my signature.

I found that the gentle pushing from this forum to home test, the great information from this forum to follow the low carb food charts, the information supplied from this forum for increasing/reducing insulin per food and home testing is what kept Bean alive... She is now in remission... she would NOT even be with me if it were not for here... I did make a promise to her --- never ever shoot again without a test --- and told her over and over how sorry I was that I was too scared to test before.... She excepted my apologies and thanks me everyday by showing me how much she loves me ---- purrs, playing and showing me her own personailty...(gently pushing from me - lol)

I want you to know, that home testing is doable and with practice, love words, treats, Brody just might suprise you and LOVE the testing times as many of the kitties here do..and momma will get used to it too ;-)

Hang here, ask questions, and get all of the furry support you could think of!
 
Brody was 382 at the vet. He had been in 2 months earlier when he had the struvite crystals and all his numbers were in the normal range.

carlinsc - that is k/d canned. The phosporous ideally should be under .5% on a dry matter basis, but minimum phosphorus level required by AAFCO is 0.5% so all commerical brands will be over that. That is one reason the k/d is "prescription". I think the lower I can get the better, even if it is not .5%. Luckily Brody is not picky when it comes to his food or cat litter. He transitions easily with both of them.
 
Please don't use Janet and Binky's list for phosphorus content--many of those values are out of date and have drastically changed.

Here's an updated list of premium foods with carb values: https://docs.google.com/leaf?id=0B8...kxOGM4NThk&sort=name&layout=list&num=50&pli=1

If you need to feed a food not on that list, you can cross reference the carb content from Janet & Binky charts with these updated phosphorus levels: http://www.felinecrf.org/canned_food_usa.htm

Does Brody have kidney disease? I guess I'm confused why you are feeding k/d (a renal diet) and looking at super low phosphorus foods for bladder stones. Low phosphorus is generally considered in the treatment of renal problems, and usually the prescription diets for Urinary tract problems look at low magnesium and are acidified for lower pH.

However, I would urge you to read this: http://www.catinfo.org/#Cystitis_. The formation of stones are most often caused by inadequate water intake due to feeding dry food, so pretty much any canned food will help solve most UT issues because the moisture intake is being increased drastically.

If your cat does have kidney disease, you don't need to feed a low protein diet--they have only been shown to be beneficial compared to a low phosphorus diet in late stage renal disease. Cats with kidney disease do fine on foods with lower than 250 mg/100kcal (1%). ("the ideally under .5% on a dry matter basis" is from an article from 1998--recent studies have shown that most cats with kidney disease do fine with less than 1% phosphorus unless they are in the end stages of CRF--Here is some more info on that subject: http://www.felinecrf.com/managd.htm). As you'll see, there are many foods that fall under this level on the premium food chart that are low carb, and few on Janet and Binky's (namely Friskie's Special Diet Pates, which ironically are marketed as urinary tract diets).

So unless your cat is in the end stages of Chronic Renal Failure, there is no reason to feed Hills K/D. The high carb content will impede treatment of Brody's diabetes. If Brody's only problems are Urinary Tract Disease and Diabetes, any low carb canned diet will treat both issues. If CRI or CRF is also in the picture, then a commercial food with high quality protein, low carb, low phosphorus (less than 1%, or 250 mg/100kcal) is your best bet for treating all three conditions.
 
6 months after we adopted him, we discovered that Brody had a bladder stone. The vet removed a urate stone the size of a small olive. k/d was the diet they felt was best to prevent future stones. I haven't been able to find much out there on urate stones in cats. Just dalmations.
 
Did they analyze the stone for composition? If so, was it a struvite or calcium oxalate stone? Vets tend to prescribe acidifying diets for struvite stones (which are more common) and de-acidifying diets for calcium oxalate stones. I'm thinking maybe your vet put him on k/d because it is a de-acidified diet? A water rich diet of a commercial food is enough in the majority of cases to keep your cat's PH high enough to prevent recurrence, as long as you avoid foods that say they are formulated to promote urinary tract health (acidified). If you pick a commercial food that's lower in phosphorus, it's not likely to be very acidic. And you can simply test the pH level to see if the diet is maintaining the right pH.

However, pH is a secondary concern to water intake. Please read Dr. Pierson's article: Please read Dr. Pierson's article about this subject: [url]http://catinfo.org/#Cystitis_.

Again, getting as much moisture in your cat's food as possible is the best way to prevent stones from happening again. Which means simply a canned diet (and I would also probably mix a little water in with his food). Increased water intake=dilute urine. These types of stones don't recur if your cat's urine is dilute. For his diabetes, you need something canned and low carb. So you have a ton of food options, and you definitely don't need to feed a prescription diet.

Here's some more info on stones:

http://www.vet.cornell.edu/fhc/brochures/urinary.html

http://www.sniksnak.com/cathealth/uroliths.html

http://www.veterinarypartner.com/Content.plx?P=A&A=1741
 
Brody's stone was sent to a lab for testing and it came back as an ammonium urate stone. From what I have read that the 3rd type of stone and rare in cats. They may be more common in Siamese or Persians. Oh, and dalmatians :)

"Ammonium urate stones tend to form in urine that is too acidic.
It also tends to form in pets with liver disease due to improper metabolism of ammonia to urea.This causes excess uric levels in the bloodstream.The kidneys filter out this excess uric acid in the production of urine thereby increasing the level of uric acid in the bladder.The excess ammonia from the liver problem can also build up in the urine in the bladder. The ammonia and uric acid combine to form an ammonium urate bladder stone.Some pets who have ammonium urate bladder stones may also have dilute urine."
 
Regardless, if your cat is diabetic you will have to change the diet. You can find a food that is lower in protein/phosphorus and carbs (under 10%) at the same time. Since in most cases the canned food (absolutely no dry) alone will prevent urinary stones from recurring, the need for a low acid diet is secondary to the need for lower carbs. There is no point feeding a diet to prevent urinary stones if your cat has uncontrolled diabetes. Urine pH can be easily monitored at home, and the diet tweaked if the pH drops too low. But he should do fine on a 100% canned, low carb diet, with some extra water added to meals.

I would recommend EVO 95% chicken & turkey, or Merrick Before grain Turkey (the fat/protein values are reversed on the chart i provided--protein is really only 34), or Wellness Turkey. All of these are very low carb, lower protein, low phosphorus.

I don't know if you saw the values for K/D, but these foods don't have much more protein than the K/D has. And the k/d is 29% carbs. That is way too high for a diabetic cat. It's going to be impossible to get him regulated on that diet.

The other problem with feeding K/D is that the very low protein content causes muscle wasting in older cats. I know, because my cat was on it for a few months before I switched her to a commercial low phosphorus food. She wasted away on it, which is why I switched her to something with a tad more protein in it. As I said, studies have shown that it's useful for end stage renal disease, but it's not a food you should be feeding long term.
 
Update- Brody - Newly diagnosed

Brody had his first blood curve at the vet. His glucose level came as low as 242 and two hours later it was still 244. It was 382 for his original diagnosis. The vet increased his ProZinc from 1 unit to 1.5 units. I have also switched from the canned Hills k/d to Wellness Turkey and cut back his dry to minimal. I don't want to change too many variables at one time and the vet didn't want to jack up his insulin if we are cutting his carbs at the same time. He gets the little bit of dry (1/4 cup) to snack on during the day as I work and can't get him wet food. The vet was very open to his diet being changed and is working with me. I'm hoping with the diet change he won't need more insulin next time.

Despite my initial fear and heartbreak at his diagnosis, dealing with his diabetes has been pretty easy. It helps to have a good patient.

And thanks for the canned food advice Julia and Bandit. Luckily Brody eats whatever is put in front of him.
 
If Brody likes the canned food there are a couple of fairly easy tricks to make sure he has wet food while you are at work. You can either use a timed feeder, freeze the canned food and put it out frozen so he can nibble on it as it thaws out, or just add a little water to it to keep it moist longer and leave that out for him. Getting rid of the dry altogether will probably bring his numbers down even farther and maybe even get him into remission and off insulin altogether.

Mel, Maxwell, Musette & The Fur Gang
 
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