Brody--41 at +7

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MsKarilynn

MsKarilynn

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I am a bit panicked here, hence the 911. I just tested Brody (it's been 7 hours since his 2 units of insulin) and his number was 41!! That's SO low! He doesn't seem lethargic at all. He's walking around, eating his food, cuddling up against my leg, being his usual self, but I am scared! Is my test wrong? Should I test again? I mean, I'm glad he's lower but this is extremely low!


ETA: Split this topic away from the original DX thread, which is here.
 
Re: FD Newbie :)

You only added the 911 to your last post, not the entire thread.

I'm no expert, but yes, TEST AGAIN immediately if you haven't already. 41 is too low to ignore.

Please post what the blood sugar is and edit your original post to add a 911.
 
Re: FD Newbie :)

like Holly said, test again immediately to confirm the number

you're still using prozinc right? if it is indeed similar in action to the pzi vet i'm used to it should start pooping out soon. what we'll want you to do is test about every 20-30 minutes for the next hour or so to make sure he's climbing. as far as tonight's dose, we need to get more eyes on this but i'm betting you might be skipping or reducing tonight's shot
 
Re: FD Newbie :)

I don't know anything about PZI.. so I can't help you there.. except to say that often cats and their moms and dads end up here in a similar situation as you.. following the vets directions..doing dosing based on BG levels at the vet.. which you now know can be artificially elevated numbers from stress.. it's NOT uncommon to have people find out that their cat is on too MUCH insulin.. so don't be surprised if this is the case.

But once you are through this crazy ride.. and follow these peoples instructions.. and post as much as you can.. so they can help you through it.. I expect you to be a loud advocate for home testing! :)
 
Re: FD Newbie :)

Do another ear test on the other ear. Remember that the meters are not always exact. See what the cat is doing. That's your best sign.

Give him some food and monitor him for a half hour or so. My Ari hits the 40's and has no hypo signs whatsoever. I give her food, she eats a little and then in about 1/2 an hour it comes up a few points and then slowly begins to raise. +7 may be right about the time it starts to rise for him. For Ari, she hits her nadir at +6 and then holds until about +8. The best thing you can do right now is to encourage food.

Also, after this, watch his readings. This may cause a little bit of rebound which you'll see with crazy high numbers. Don't panic over them right away. Give your normal dose at least for the first shot of super high numbers if you get them. Ari gets no rebound from the 40's and ECID.

40's is really low, so I'd suggest bumping down the dose a bit. Since he is newly diagnosed, call your vet in the morning and I'd guess that he'll lower the dose. Once under 1 unit, I highly recommend using the U100's with the conversion.

ETA - Come over to the PZI board as well. There are many people over there that have recently been switched to ProZinc (since it's the new PZI insulin) and are extremely helpful and supportive.
 
Re: FD Newbie :)

Hi everyone,

I retested but it wasn't until about an hour ago. He ate food after the first test and he was running around here, so I figured that the number was bogus. I only have 2 strips left, need to buy more. Anyway, I tested and now his number is 412. I'm guessing the first one was not legitimate. I don't know how the heck he could go up almost 400 in 3 hours. Is that possible? Should I still give insulin? I only have 1 strip left now. Should I test yet again? This is pretty frustrating.

Thanks for the help all! So appreciated.

Hope, just read your reply. It's possible for him to rebound from 41 to 412? I have a lot to learn about this stuff. :shock:
 
Re: FD Newbie :)

oh yeah, definitely possible to bounce that much that fast, especially if this is the first time his body experienced such a low number. when it goes that low their body tries to self-protect and throws everything it's got out to try and save itself. it can only do that so many times and then it's got nothing left to throw out so that's one reason you don't want to let them get there like that too many times.

tough call about tonight's shot. in all honesty, since you're almost out of strips, i'd probably consider skipping tonight's dose, let his body recover a little from the shock of it all. then in the morning i'd shoot probably 1 unit if he's over 200 and pick up some more strips too. one night at a higher number isn't gonna kill him.

better to be safe than sorry.

also, there's several great gals in your area........Carol as she mentioned, Amy'sWinston, carolynandlatte, etc....
 
Re: FD Newbie :)

Thank you dearly Cindy. Seriously, I appreciate it so much. I had no idea he could bounce up like that. Poor guy. I will skip tonight then and test again tomorrow morning. Should I test before or after I feed him with my one strip? And how long should I wait? I will run and get strips from Walgreens before work tomorrow. Oh, but I have the Relion meter from Walmart, do I need Relion strips?
 
Re: FD Newbie :)

i would test him before eating, as eating can raise BG(blood glucose) levels, and if over 200, feed him and then give his insulin, then get more strips. and yes, you have to get the relion strips but if you are going to work just pick them up on your way home perhaps?

walgreens has their own brand too which is cheap but i think i've heard some concerns about it's accuracy
 
Re: FD Newbie :)

Yeah bounces can be fast, high and last up to 72 hours..

It doesn't even only happen on "low" numbers.. it can happen on any number your cats body isn't used to seeing..
 
Re: FD Newbie :)

Why do you think he went so low to begin with? He had food sitting out. It was 7 hours after his insulin. Is that normal to go that low for no apparent reason? Maybe the 2 units of insulin is too much?
 
Re: FD Newbie :)

MsKarilynn said:
Why do you think he went so low to begin with? He had food sitting out. It was 7 hours after his insulin. Is that normal to go that low for no apparent reason? Maybe the 2 units of insulin is too much?
Click to expand...

exactly. it is extremely possible that 2 units is too much.

did you just start testing or do you have some more numbers we can look at? if so would it be possible for you to try and set up a spreadsheet with them? there's instructions in the Tech forum on how to do that.
http://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=16
 
Re: FD Newbie :)

I'd just like to say hello and welcome. You have gotten tons of great advice. From my experience with both PZI Vet and ProZinc, IMHO any advice you get based on experience with PZI Vet should translate perfectly well to ProZinc.
 
Re: FD Newbie :)

With Prozinc the insulin typically starts working very close to +2 hours after the shot, then numbers continue to drop and usually the lowest they drop (the nadir) occurs somewhere between +4 and +8 hours after the shot. My cat's nadir is usually at about 4.5 hrs, but frequently it is at +7 hrs or +8hrs. Usually during that +4 to +8 hour period they stay fairly similar. After that, numbers gradually rise, and many of the prozinc kitties seem to see it pooping out somewhere between +10 and +13 hrs.

It is important that you get a BUNCH of new strips because you are going to need to do a lot of testing to get the correct dose settled. It is a risky thing to run out strips. ohmygod_smile

You are probably going to want to get a new type of syringe which will make getting a precise dose easier- more about that later. Don't worry -they aren't expensive :-D

When the numbers start bouncing drastically, you need to reduce the dose.
When you see low numbers like 41 you need to encourage some steady food intake.

It is very very important for YOU, and for others to help you, to get a spreadsheet set up. Directions for that are in the Tech Forum. :!:

The Purina canned DM is 5% carb, and is fine. I would return the dry DM asap.

Please come see us in the PZI forum, post an introduction, and we will be happy to help you get that kitty settled into a good dose! :-D :cool: cat_pet_icon
 
Re: FD Newbie :)

MsKarilynn said:
I will run and get strips from Walgreens before work tomorrow. Oh, but I have the Relion meter from Walmart, do I need Relion strips?
Click to expand...

Yes, strips are specific to the meter. For the Reli-on meter, you need Walmart's Reli-on strips.

Venita
 
Something else to consider, it's very possible that you didn't get a complete read on that first test. Meaning, you either didn't get enough blood, or the strip was fully in the meter or there was some type of error that still gave you a reading.

I had this happen on more than one occasion and freak me out, only to realize I did something wrong with the meter while testing.

And if this was an accurate read, then you need to make some changes and pick up lots of test strips.

Hey - good catch on this. I think we all panicked when we got our first low read. I know I did!
 
Thank you to everyone who has contributed their advice to this thread and also to the person who made this its own thread! I appreciate it. I am kind of not so internet savvy.

Anyway - learning a lot here. I will pick up A LOT of new strips from Walmart. I will start a spreadsheet, although I wont lie, I've looked at some and they look complicated and I can't say I quite understand everything. I also work from 2:30-11 and I am gone from about 2-11:30 Monday-Friday, so testing during those hours isn't happening. I can on the weekends however. I will ALWAYS test before his shot and I'll make sure to test twice when getting a number that seems fishy. I will look into different syringes with a more precise measurement. This is all a giant learning experience really and everyone here is SO helpful. I have no idea where'd I would even be right now without the people here and I've only been here for a little over a week!

Well, I am off to test Brody before feeding. If he is over 200, then I will feed him and give him 1 unit of insulin. If he is under, I will not shoot. I'm running to Walmart in a little bit to get strips. I wish I had thought about the fact that I can only use the Relion strips when I bought the meter, because my nearest Walmart isn't anywhere near me! Oh well.

Thanks again everyone!
 
Mail order strips from walmart.com http://www.walmart.com/ip/ReliOn-Ultima ... ct/3555236 looks like they are $20/box of 50 shipped.

Double check these are exactly the right ones you need because there are several relion meters that use different strips.

Please get advice on the u 100 syringes before you buy them. I dont use them so I cant advise. Look back at recent PZI posts , someone posted a picture for steve and blue I think, which could help you.
 
Thank you! I will order them, great idea. I will also check out the ProZinc forums.

I tested him today before his food and shot. He was at 439, so I fed him and gave him 1 unit. I'll check him when I get home as I have more strips now.

Also, he's going in for a curve on Monday, so I can get a better idea on his numbers then. I want to start doing my own curves. Should I just do one myself and skip the vet or have them do the first one?
 
Nancy and Cody said:
Mail order strips from walmart.com http://www.walmart.com/ip/ReliOn-Ultima ... ct/3555236 looks like they are $20/box of 50 shipped.

Double check these are exactly the right ones you need because there are several relion meters that use different strips.
Click to expand...

Definitely double-check...the Relion Micro is the newer one that uses the least amount of blood. I haven't seen those stips online. Many people like the Aviva meter and buy their strips on e-bay.
 
A curve at the vet doesn't have much value.. even if it was free I wouldn't recommend it.. stress can elevate BGs (ironically they can also lower them too).. and the numbers taken there aren't necessarily very accurate..
 
I am just concerned about what to keep his insulin dose at. If I do my own curves, will the numbers tell me what he should be at? Is there a recommended amount for a certain number? Let's say I test him and he's around 400. Is 1 unit recommended or should I go with 2? That's what I am confused about. Is that really just trial and error? Can the vet give me a clear understanding of that through a curve?
 
The ProZinc forum will help you with that.. once you set up a spreadsheet and start collecting data they will be able to guide you with dosing.. each insulin is a bit different, and in that forum is where you will find the prozinc pros :)
 
You need the vet for the prozinc so you don't want to make her mad. However, you also get a MUCH more accurate curve at home because 'vet stress' can makes the numbers wacko and therefore meaningless. So if possible cancel the vet curve for now and do several days of your own testing, with every 1-2 hours tests while awake if possible. An hourly curve can give you a ton of information about how he is reacting to the insulin. Most vets take about 3-4 tests only, during a 8 hr vet test day, and charge you probably $90. At home, 3-4 tests will cost you $1.60. Save the $90 for your strips and insulin....

SO, the secret is to get her on your side, in favor of home testing. There are articles around here somewhere called "convert a vet" probably in the health links. Also if you go in loaded with data, examples of hypo the other night, etc... she will probably learn from you, and support you. Many vets appreciate the home testing.

And no there is no way of saying that a 400 = xx units of insulin.
EVERY CAT IS DIFFERENT, some cats hypo on .5 units, my cat gets 12units every 12 hrs and never drops below 200.

The secret to dosing is seeing the whole curve and judging it from that.
 
With your curve, you'll be able to see how he reacts at the dosage you are currently at. You'll be able to see about where he hits his nadir (the lowest BG of the cycle) which will tell you if the insulin is too little or too much. You'll also be able to see what his reaction is as he comes back out of his nadir. These will allow you to spot test with a bit more accuracy. Even now, if I see really wonky numbers, I'll do a 8 or 12 hour hourly curve to see what's really happening.
 
Thanks for the tips and advice all. I will talk to my vet about doing a home curve.

Nancy, do you really give your cat 12 units every 12 hours? Or was that a typo? That is a lot! I am hoping I can find a number that works for him. I have just been giving him 1 unit until I can do an all day curve. That 41 scared me! I so wish I would have tested again immediately after that to make sure it was legit. Ugh, oh well, learning lesson.

I came home to both of my cats eating my female cats thrown up dried food. *biggest sigh EVER* They are trying to kill me, I swear.
 
Nancy's Cody has a condition called Acromegaly which yes, causes a need for much more insulin than a lot of our kitties require, so 12 was most likely correct :)
 
Yes my kitty has a pituitary tumor which is called acromegaly.This means he needs very unusually high doses. He is not a 'normal' diabetic. No typo...
 
Hey,
I found the direct link to help you set up your spreadsheet:
http://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=16

It is really SO SO helpful. :-D You 'll be so glad you did it. As motivation, the sooner you get him regulated on a good dose, the larger (and easier) the chance that he will go off the juice altogether. Over in PZI, we just helped a newbie last week who was very proactive and was able to get his cat almost OTJ in a couple weeks. If you have time you could learn A LOT reading his whole first thread over in PZI http://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopi ... 24&t=10935

The longer you wait the harder it gets. :!: I wish I had found this forum 3 years ago when we first started...

Also, what can we call you? Karilynn? :?:

Please post over in PZI next. There are a lot of great folks waiting to help you. Here's the direct link to us :-D :
http://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewforum.php?f=24

"Convert a Vet" topic viewtopic.php?f=3&t=2509
 
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