Bright ideas, anyone? (Switch insulins? A dental? More patience pants?)

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Robin&BB

Robin&BB

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Hello, All - Bat-Bat has been in the same "holding pattern" for what appears to be at least 3.5 months now :banghead:.
It's as though she's peering over the edge of the falls, afraid to take the leap. Quite some time back, my vet here had said, "Don't shoot her that mini-dose unless she rises to 200 @ pre-shot test." (We use an Alpha Trak meter, btw.) But I was uncomfortable with that, so lowered my time-to-shoot threshold to around 160-ish (as I'm always around to monitor).

Just to see what would happen, when yesterday's AM pre-shot test showed 178 I just let her go without her mini-dose & tested at +2 (237) & +5 (156). Chickened out when she went to 173 @ +12, so shot her after her dinner. And this morning? A 185! (Shot her <0.15U again. Could this be a "mini-bounce?") Here's the thing: She bottomed out on me twice in July at this tiny-dose, so I'm at a loss as to what I might do next. Am embarrassed to admit: Bat-Bat has never had a dental cleaning - nor has any vet ever even mentioned doing one <sigh>.

I still have a 1/2 vial of ProZinc left, but is it possible I should switch her to Lantus? (Ugh, I shudder at the cost here; a vial's really pricey in AZ.:eek:) Or should I just bite the bullet and take her in for a dental, even though she'll totally stress out?:nailbiting: Or do I need more patience pants?:rolleyes: Or .... ??? Any bright ideas from the collective mind here would be most welcome. Thanks, my friends!:)
 
I wish I were qualified to comment on dosing....... wondering what a change in insulin would do. If that were to give a worse result, could you just switch back to ProZinc? I hope someone will have a perfect answer for you. HUGS !!:bighug:
 
You could just chase the numbers, checking at 6 hour increments. Maybe every 18 hours would work.
Are you drop dosing?
 
She is a puzzlement. I can certainly see why you'd like her to just get with it and go OTJ. She is SO close. But it does seem to make a difference when you dose even that tiny amount; she drops lower than if you don't...

I don't think I'd try Lantus unless you can find someone with a part of a vial on the Supply closet who is giving it away. It's the $$ i am thinking about....Yes, you could dose a little lower with Lantus (but not much) and you could run into a situation where she is getting really long cycles and throwing your life completely out the window. The dental could push her over the edge, but as you say, she is so horrified of the vet. Is it worth the stress if you don't think there is an issue?

I guess you could get real gutsy and lower the range a smidge and chase the dose. So, skip until she reaches your magic target and give a drop. (Maybe literally a drop, maybe the 0.15). She never seems to get into a dangerously hypo range and even if she started to drop, you know how to being her up.

My guess (and it is only a guess) is that it will take a push to get her down low enough that she will just stay there. There are basically the two approaches: give them the time in lower, safe ranges and eventually they drop on their own or push. You've tried the first approach.

Anyone advising Robin - she is using AlphaTrak and her values reflect this. Her spreadsheet has been altered to give colors that correspond with AlphaTrak.
 
One tactic is to press in the syringe plunger, push it into the vial, then release the pressure to draw up a tiny amount.
 
Would BB let you look in her mouth? Especially back around the molars. If the gums are all red and swollen looking, there could be a problem. Then you could decide if the trip to the vet would be worse than correcting said problem. Just an idea.
 
Have you been to vet recently? I ask because if you have, you might call and just ask them if anyone happened to get a look at her teeth and if they think a dental would be good.

If you haven't been lately, I probably wouldn't unless you can look at her teeth yourself and think there's a problem, like Bobbie says. Stressing her for a vet visit when there is no issue isn't worth it. I don't know...maybe try pushing like Sue suggested?
 
@BJM , @Sue and Oliver (GA) , @Bobbie And Bubba , @Rachel - Thanks so much for your thoughts; all very helpful tips!

Interestingly enough, after I posted my query here, I noticed that Bat-Bat was really dead asleep ... So we actually managed to pry her mouth open, just barely long enough for me to look at her back teeth. (Took both DH and me to do it before she woke up & got VERY annoyed!) Although her gums don't seem swollen (but what do I know), her back teeth are extremely yellowed (unlike her "fangs" in front, which are nicely white).

So looks like we have a lot of tarter action going on back there. And now that I think of it: She has been gnawing at the backs of my kitchen chairs (!) lately - a new behavior for her. (She has always tended toward biting a random object or two, like the corner of my Macbook screen or a reference book cover - just for a moment - to get my attention.) But this new chair-gnawing thing I noticed her doing this past week when I wasn't preoccupied, and I also saw that she was opening her mouth rather wide while doing it, like she was concentrating on gnawing with her back teeth. Hmm ...

Based on this, do you think I should beat back my fears about the ground we may lose for a time <gulp>, and take her in for a dental cleaning? Can have them run a standard blood panel then, too, just to check on the old girl - as it's been 6 months since her diabetes recurrence & UTI. Then we might see if that makes a difference? (And if not, plan B would commence: Lowering the shot-threshold & chasing the #s.)
 
If you do go into the vet for a looky -see, remember to ask them the stage of gingivitis. They have a scale and I think it's 1-4. The worse stage as I mentioned before would mean must likely mean losing a tooth or two because of deep pocketing and looseness and there could be infection present. (I was in the dental field in my former life) But, having said all that, I would think that if there was infection her numbers would be much higher?
 
Bobbie And Bubba said:
But, having said all that, I would think that if there was infection her numbers would be much higher?
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Yeah, wouldn't think there's an infection going on, based on her #s. And I know it may just be a crap-shoot to take her in for the exam/cleaning ... but at at this point, I'm grasping at straws here. (Nor do I want to ignore her teeth so long as to have a bigger problem occur in her mouth.)

Vet is supposed to call me later to discuss it; never got a clear answer out of his staff re: Has anyone ever inspected Bat-Bat's mouth while they've had her knocked out during previous visits? (Answer from gal on phone: "Well, I would think so ...")
 
I'd say go for the cleaning. I know the joy of bringing a vet phobic cat in (though my cat isn't so much vet phobic as EVERY PERSON IN THE WORLD phobic). They have to sedate my little one just to examine her...not my preference, but since she won't even let me touch her often, I have them do it so that she can get what she needs with less stress (and less blood drawn from the vet!). However, it might be the thing you need to get those numbers down! You might lose a little ground, but you might gain even more back!

I think it's a good idea since, as you say, you can go ahead and have them run a blood panel just to check up on her and make sure all is well. Couldn't hurt since you'll already be in!

Let us know how the call from the vet goes. Love the whole "I would think so" answer.
 
Rachel said:
I'd say go for the cleaning. I know the joy of bringing a vet phobic cat in (though my cat isn't so much vet phobic as EVERY PERSON IN THE WORLD phobic). They have to sedate my little one just to examine her...not my preference, but since she won't even let me touch her often, I have them do it so that she can get what she needs with less stress (and less blood drawn from the vet!). However, it might be the thing you need to get those numbers down! You might lose a little ground, but you might gain even more back!

I think it's a good idea since, as you say, you can go ahead and have them run a blood panel just to check up on her and make sure all is well. Couldn't hurt since you'll already be in!

Let us know how the call from the vet goes. Love the whole "I would think so" answer.
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Thanks so much, Rachel, for sharing that with me about your cat! It's oddly comforting to know that someone else here knows exactly how it feels to have such a "touchy" (or maybe a better description would be a "don't-touch-me?") kitty! I am always so mortified at how she behaves at the vet's office; it's as though she's a toddler throwing a tantrum in the cereal aisle @ the grocery store. I mean it's like, "GEEZ, Bat-Bat! Must you???!!!:oops:

I love her so much, but everyone around me has always looked on at us with either great trepidation ("Is that cat of yours going to swat at me if I pass nearby?":nailbiting:) or incredulity ("You, Robin, are totally bonkers for keeping that ill-tempered cat!":blackeye:). And yet ...

Some days Bat-Bat will sit, content and in meat-loaf position, and do the slow, double "blink-blink" thing at me (I've read that's a signal of affection among cats). Some nights she'll jump up on the bed and snuggle down at my side, or behind my legs in the crook of my knees. Other times, she'll gently bite at my hand, then lightly lick it. (I hope that's affection, rather than testing for a potential snack of my little finger?:rolleyes:)
Just little stuff, by most anyone's standards. But I love my cat, and I'll remain grateful for that little stuff from her.

(Yes, I'll let you know how the dental goes, too!:))
 
Other times, she'll gently bite at my hand, then lightly lick it. (I hope that's affection, rather than testing for a potential snack of my little finger?:rolleyes:)


Had to laugh at this one. If I don't get up when Bubba is hungry he will start biting me. Wherever there is bare skin. I fear if I were to die through the night, when I would be found, I would be 1/2 eaten.....
 
I think Elektra and Bat-Bat must be sisters! They act so much alike. Elektra likes to sit with me if someone else is there or there's a blanket so she doesn't have to notice that I'm there. She lets me pet her sometimes but she looks so horrified the whole time! Like you, I love her and I'm grateful when she shows me some love.
 
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