Boy, Straight line BG numbers & Insulin dose……Should I stick

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pixiegirls & Boy

pixiegirls & Boy

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I am beginning to get really confused with Boy’s BG numbers and hoping someone can clue me in. He started on 3u ProZinc and was on that dose until a few weeks ago when he was running high. The vet did think he was rebounding and wanted to drop the dose to 3u and monitor. At that time he (and the other 2 non-diabetic cats) were on wet food only (low carb FF for now). Boy seemed to respond well to both the diet and insulin and went from 2u to 1u. One of the other vets in the office just said to hold insulin if under 100. After a few bounces (with low nadirs), the last two days he seems pretty much going in a straight line (hi-100’s to low 200’s). I do not see that big drop at +4 or +6 anymore. Behavior wise…..racing through the house (not uncommon for him), biting my hands for some reason last two days off and on, but eating, peeing, grooming, drinking, and “talking” well. I have been keeping up on his SS chart. Even at his lowest BG’s in the 50’s, he did not show any symptoms of hypoglycemia and I did treat him with Karo and high carb food, which he responded to well.

I do like the stable/straight line BG’s, but would like to see them lower into the blue range. I am more afraid that he will start going low again, especially at night with giving him 1u, but do not feel comfortable just adjusting his dose. If he were a person, I would be fine adjusting doses…..but this is a completely different ball game, lol.

The vet did mention he might have to have his dose decreased again soon too. Since I still have the U40 needles, which U100 needle do most people on ProZinc use?

Any insight anyone could give me would be great. I do not want to be messing anything up that will affect his BG numbers.
I have gotten so much great information from this site…..it should be a requirement for all new diabetic kitty owners!
 
Re: Boy, Straight line BG numbers & Insulin dose……Should I s

Hi,
First off, you've done a great job collecting data! It is helpful to see tests at many different points over the course of 12 hours than just at shot time and nadir, and you've been doing that.

One thing that would help us figure things out is if you can tell us when Boy eats over the course of the day and night, and how much roughly he gets with each serving. A lot of cats, especially when you are down to one unit or less per shot, can have their numbers "steered" by the diet and the timing of meals.

Boy's numbers right now look great, and I think we can help you to make them look even better. It does look like his dose could be going down in the near future too.

Carl
 
Re: Boy, Straight line BG numbers & Insulin dose……Should I s

Hey! Just wanted to pop in and say welcome to PZI! I live not far from you, prob an hour or so, I’m in Kutztown, between Reading and Allentown. Looking forward to getting to know you and Boy. :-D

Best to you both!

-Donna and Asher
 
Re: Boy, Straight line BG numbers & Insulin dose……Should I s

Thanks Carl. He's done remarkably well recently except the few bouncing episodes. It just got a little scary when he was dropping so low, but thankfully he hasn't done that in a couple of days. He also has only had one BG Curve from last week.

Food wise, he started out on Purina DM canned, but within 2-3 days, he and the other 2 cats wouldn't touch it.....even when mixed with FF Classic. Since then, I have been feeding them all the FF Classic low carb varieties (form Binky's list) which they seem to go for with the exception of few. He gets about 2.5 oz at both AM and PM right after shot and testing, as well as 2-3 "snacks" of the FF (~ 1-2 oz depending on how well he ate) at around +6 and +9. I will usually only give him 2 snacks (and less) if I see that he goes to one of the other cat's bowls and eats the rest of theirs. The constantly play musical food bowls.

Thanks for the input!
 
Re: Boy, Straight line BG numbers & Insulin dose……Should I s

He does have nice numbers. I think you have two choices - contine with the one unit, monitoring carefully. The nadirs have room to move down, but the preshots are about right. If you can get a night time nadir, it might be that he dips lower at night and then the daytime cycle could be a bit of a bounce.

Or you could decrease by a little. With U100 needles, you could try .7 or so. It is scary to make dosing decisions, but when you have the data , you know how to monitor and what to do with low numbers, it becomes much less stressful.


Here is a thread on U100 needles: http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=64269&p=697204&hilit=U100+needles#p697204
 
Re: Boy, Straight line BG numbers & Insulin dose……Should I s

Hi Donna!

I know Kutztown....went to the festival a number of times and hit the Allentown Fair Grounds Gun Show a few times a year when I can to see my dad. He's had a table there for years and it's been difficult getting to Vestal, NY often.

Thanks for the welcome too!
 
Re: Boy, Straight line BG numbers & Insulin dose……Should I s

Thanks Sue. I had been planning on doing a middle of the night nadir just to make sure I wasn't feeling too comfortable with just the daytime numbers. I think I'm a little surprised that he's already responding so wasn't anticipating having to do sliding scale dosing. Doesn't it figure I just bought a box of U40 needles? lol I can probably return them to the vet and exchange hopefully (along with the 2/3 case of DM cans they won't touch).

Is it common for cats to go back and forth with bouncing and their numbers leveling out? Just from looking at his numbers, I am not sure if his nadir is at +4 or +6 (why there are quite a few +4/+6 numbers on a given day). I hate to stick him unnecessarily since he isn't always that thrilled about it, but does come whenever I call him for one.

I will check the link for the U100 syringes....thanks! :-D
 
Re: Boy, Straight line BG numbers & Insulin dose……Should I s

It's that darn "Every cat is different thing". Some cats bounce constantly, some don't bounce much at all. You might check out some other people's spreadsheets. You can't figure your cat will react like theirs, but it is interesting to see how they do react and how other people are dosing.

Hopefully the vet will take back your needles. He certainly should take back the DM. Purina is very good about giving refunds on their foods, no questions asked.

As long as they get a treat with each poke, most cats are willing to put up with our vampire ways.....
 
Re: Boy, Straight line BG numbers & Insulin dose……Should I s

Lol...I have definitely seen how every cat does react differently and have viewed other's SS's, but didn't compare. It is interesting to see the changes that many go through.

I haven't opened up the box of syringes I just bought, so would think they could exchange along with the DM food. His vet isn't a real fan I guess of the FF quality so I've been trying to find some other brands that she might be okay with. Her concern I think was more that with his age (12), a high quality (obviously that opinion varies too) food might prevent him from other medical issues.

Boy does get a treat 95% of the time....the other 5% he's already jumped down and wants his food, lol. I wouldn't be thrilled to be poked so many times a day either, so a treat is great. Any particular soft "likes" for low carb treats that most people use?
 
Re: Boy, Straight line BG numbers & Insulin dose……Should I s

Here's a list: Lo carb treats Beefeaters freeze dried treats are a favorite at my house. Oliver loved Bonito Flakes but they make Niko sneeze....

My vet and I agree to disagree on food. She knows wet low carb is best but think Fancy Feast is low quality. I always figure they would be eating mice and birds in the wild - those have a few "byproducts" so I never worried about it.
 
Re: Boy, Straight line BG numbers & Insulin dose……Should I s

Great! Thanks for the link. I sort of feel it might be the same with my vet. I love her to death and absolutely trust her judgment, but she mentioned almost same thing about FF. When I looked at the ingredients of DM though.....it didn't look all that great to me. Even my local grocery store (which has their own FF type) seemed to have better ingredients and the price is awesome. Unfortunately, they only have a few flavors. Luckily I only bought 3 cans of the low carb type.....which didn't go over well. My own fault....guess I hadn't read through the whole ingredient list....liver is mixed which they seem to hate now. Along with the other 2 cats and all of the money I've spent on Boy recently, my vet is aware that I need to be able to afford the food and they have to like it. They had actually all been getting 9lives or Friskies pates a couple times a week and loved those, but I don't even want to mention those to my vet. ;-)

Are the beefeaters freeze dried treats moist, or soft treats? Boy does have a bad tooth, so I'm trying to stay away from anything hard for him.
 
Re: Boy, Straight line BG numbers & Insulin dose……Should I s

They aren't crunchy - more like chunks of dried food that you can shred into tiny pieces...

If he has a bad tooth, that can really impact his bg levels. Not only the possible infection but the pain can raise the levels.
 
Re: Boy, Straight line BG numbers & Insulin dose……Should I s

I'll browse through the link you gave me....shredding won't be his thing. We aren't sure how bad the tooth is yet, but the vet wanted to wait until his diabetes was under control then mentioned possibly a dental cleaning (I'm more afraid of the dental work than the diabetes....have known/read too many that had tragic outcomes). So for now, a soft treat won't bother him. He doesn't seem to have any pain, or at least doesn't seem to react to it which is good.
 
Re: Boy, Straight line BG numbers & Insulin dose……Should I s

Are Wellness Pure Bites on the list? The shrimp are really small, and although I've never tried one, they seem to be not really crunchy, more like a cheetos (baked, not fried).

Carl
 
Re: Boy, Straight line BG numbers & Insulin dose……Should I s

and although I've never tried one,
Click to expand...

so, who can guess what comes next? :lol:

Frankly, I don't see what Bob loves so much about them! They're pretty bland, and don't taste much like shrimp. :-D

Oh, and not really crunchy either....

Carl
 
Re: Boy, Straight line BG numbers & Insulin dose……Should I s

Oh....Yuck!! I did try/eat a few pieces of dry cat, and dog food before. Not my fault.....I was little and my sister told me it was a treat. Put whipped cream on one. Funny how curiosity about how and what pets react to and go nuts over {my sister also thought it would be a great idea to smoke catnip to see what it did) always drives some people so nuts they do try pet food......not all that different I guess than new mothers trying a small bite of baby food and realizing how awful it is, rofl.

You do deserve a bravery award though for testing out the shrimp treats!!
 
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