Boy...AMPS 163, 5/2 PMPS 280, +5 = 75, +6=98, PMPS=183!

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pixiegirls & Boy

pixiegirls & Boy

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Boy's AMPS is looking good at 163! His PMPS last night was 280. I didn't do a +4 last night though. He's now been on the .5u dose for a day and a half (x3). Do I attempt to reduce his AM shot dose today so he doesn't drop too low in a few hours? Or just keep him on the .5u for at least another dose? :-|

Update:
***I decided to reduce his dose a little this AM anyway to .25u. With his numbers looking good yesterday (nadir of 96), and another nice AMPS, he might have dropped into the 50's again with the .5u. I also started to notice that he just doesn't seem to be as hungry in the morning as he is at night.....so I'm watching (the best I can, lol) to get a better idea of what amounts he's eating in the morning and evening. Boy has never been one to finish an entire portion of food at once. More like 1/2, then he'll either take a break and come back later to eat a couple of times, and/or begin his (therefore the musical bowl game) daily bowl check to make sure he got the best tasting food. May have to still try a few brands/varieties out still with him.

I'll recheck his BG around 3:00 or 4:00 pm and update his SS.

Hope everyone has a great day!! :-D
 
Re: Boy...AMPS 163, 5/2 PMPS 280, .5u again?

I would skinny up the dose like you did yesterday morning...will you be able to get any tests during the day?
Carl
 
Re: Boy...AMPS 163, 5/2 PMPS 280

Reducing the dose was the exact right thing to do. Can you get a mid cycle test so we can see how it's working?

I have a good feeling about Boy's future.
 
Re: Boy...AMPS 163, 5/2 PMPS 280

Hi Carl,

I did give him about .25u this am (amps was 163). Should be getting another bg around 3:00 or 4:00 pm.
 
Re: Boy...AMPS 163, 5/2 PMPS 280

Hi Rob,

I'll be getting another bg around 3:00 or 4:00 pm. Since it' varies when his lowest drop might be (+4 - +6), I sometimes will just go middle of the road and test him at +5. The dose reduction just "made sense", lol. I can understand better now why so many can determine dosing changes so often, etc. I finally was able to look at Boy's bg's and dosages and see patterns.....even if he doesn't have a huge amount of data to base it on.....just "clicked". cat_pet_icon

I will post his bg when I get it and update his SS.

Thanks!
 
Re: Boy...AMPS 163, 5/2 PMPS 280

I'm glad I did reduce his dose now! His bg @ +5 is 75. I want to recheck him in at least an hour in case he hasn't gotten to his lowest today, but I hope that this is as far as he's going to drop. dancing_cat
 
Re: Boy...AMPS 163, 5/2 PMPS 280, +5 = 75

That 75 is a great number, right in the range for drop.

We don't start to worry until he gets to 50 or below.
 
Re: Boy...AMPS 163, 5/2 PMPS 280, +5 = 75

No, the 75 is good....I'm just restesting in the hour to make sure he wasn't going down anymore...say into those 50 ranges since I am not positive if his nadir is at +4 or +6.
 
Re: Boy...AMPS 163, 5/2 PMPS 280, +5 = 75, +6=98!

It's looking good. At +6, Boy was 98! At least I don't have to worry anymore that he'll drop further. I will do a bg curve soon, just wanted to wait until he had been on a specific dose for a bit. flip_cat
 
Re: Boy...AMPS 163, 5/2 PMPS 280, +5 = 75, +6=98!

Absolutely, keep testing when you start getting into those lower numbers to make sure they don't drop too low.

Depending on your PMPS I would stick with this dose, unless of course he is even lower than your AMPS.
 
Re: Boy...AMPS 163, 5/2 PMPS 280, +5 = 75, +6=98!

Boy's number's seem to be responding much better with the lower doses so far too. I don't expect him to have a huge jump for PMPS though (hope I didn't just jinx us).

I'll will keep him on the .25u for a little bit (unless hes obviously too low to shoot) or he does start to drop more. I think he also does better when he is gets a few doses that are the same.

Thanks for the input. I'll have to make sure I call or go see the vet tomorrow to exchange my syringes. As he gets lower bg numbers and dosing is reduced, I'll need to start figuring out the .1 increments. Are there guidelines that most people go by with the micro doses?
 
Re: Boy...AMPS 163, 5/2 PMPS 280, +5 = 75, +6=98!

Be sure to get the U100 syringes with the half unit markings. Print out the conversion chart and hang it on the fridge for reference with each and every shot.

With the half unit marks getting accurate micro doses is much easier.

There are pictures of what drop dosing looks like, it takes some practice but is doable.
 
Re: Boy...AMPS 163, 5/2 PMPS 280, +5 = 75, +6=98!

I did print and save the sheet for the syringes. After looking at it again, I wondered how the conversion chart would work if he is already getting 0.25u/U40 and the chart only goes down to 0.2u/U40. Does almost everyone go to drop/micro dosing, or do some just go OTJ based upon bg readings? Just curious what has been the trend, although realize each case/cat is different.


I've worked with this conversion chart before.....just not on cats, lol. Personally, I was used to a U100 syringe more than using a U40....so at least I can deal with the .01 markings. The remission thing....not familiar with since it's not part of the human physiology, so I do want to learn as much as I can.
 
Re: Boy...AMPS 163, 5/2 PMPS 280, +5 = 75, +6=98!

I never shot Bob with less than .25u in a u40 syringe. I didn't know about the u100s or the conversion chart back then. One day, I looked at the syringe and the miniscule amount of insulin in it and said "screw it, Bob, you're done with this". Luckily, he agreed!

Carl
 
Re: Boy...AMPS 163, 5/2 PMPS 280, +5 = 75, +6=98!

rofl....that is exactly what I was thinking! Even if 0.25u/U40 is used in a U100, the calculation should be 0.1u/U40=0.25/U100. That would have to be an impossible amount to draw up or even know....and still would just be a drop. I realize that some cats might have other medical issues or some quirky bgs once in awhile so drop dosing would be the plan. But for cats that seem to be regulating quickly, or would be at such a miniscule amount of insulin, trial might be the better option.

Nothing emergent changing with his dose, etc., I am just trying to research the remission process ahead of time (if that is where he is heading).

Did you see any significant bg level changes in Bob when you discontinued the insulin?
 
Re: Boy...AMPS 163, 5/2 PMPS 280, +5 = 75, +6=98!

I tried it one day, and ended up having to give him one more shot 2 days later because he got up into the 120's so I shot .25 at that. I checked him twice a day for 2 weeks and I saw a couple numbers just over 100. Since July though, the highest number I have ever seen was in the 70's. Most times (and I only check him once a month now, he's in the 60s.

Carl
 
Re: Boy...AMPS 163, 5/2 PMPS 280, +5 = 75, +6=98!

Wow...that's awesome! I kind of like that plan....no fuss, no muss. If he gets down to those small doses, I'm sure Boy's vet will just want the insulin stopped since he seems to be sensitive to it.

You must love getting those bg levels at <100. How great!
 
Re: Boy...AMPS 163, 5/2 PMPS 280, +5 = 75, +6=98!

I had no reason to ever know, but I've often wondered what his regular BG was before he got diabetes, just to see if he's really "back to normal". But as long as he's under 100, I'm not complaining!

Carl
 
Re: Boy...AMPS 163, 5/2 PMPS 280, +5 = 75, +6=98!

I do know that bg levels "pre" diabetic have a different "normal" range....anywhere from 50-130 or so.
Diabetics cats in remission just have a wider range that is normal/acceptable for them....~90-150 [his "new" normal].

When Boy was first diagnosed, the vet told me he had been diabetic for quite some time. He had only just started showing symptoms of weight loss and nasty fur with dandruff. I hadn't even taken him to the vet for those reasons, but it was found on his blood work. I don't know exactly what "some time" means, but somehow he seemed to do okay without any symptoms.
 
Great!! Boy's PMPS was 183. He had a reduced dose this am of 0.25u/U40.

AMPS
163
+5, 75
+6, 98
PMPS
183

I was going to give him another 0.25u, but wondering if I should even give him that. A little afraid that if I do, he might drop into those 50's in the middle of the night.
 
Does he eat overnight? I think the .25 would be okay provided you can either check him around +5 or can feed him a bit around that time.
His numbers sure are looking fantastic!
Carl
 
Yeah.....he usually does....not much during the night though....unless he's awake, racing through the house, or other kitty commotion is going on. I think I probably have less than 0.25 in the syringe as it is.....hard trying to reduce down to that much on those little buggers (U40 syringes). It wasn't worth trying get insulin in without markings, but it's close to 0.25, if not less.

I am just giving him his shot/food now, but will set the alarm to recheck @ +5. Just praying he runs smoothly through the night and again tomorrow!
 
I don't know if you plan to just stay with the U40s but if so, some people mark with tape or permanent marker what they are going to call .25 (or lower) on a sample syringe. Then when they shoot, they can put the loaded syringe next to the sample and see if they are being fairly consistent.

Not to jinx, but you may not need to invest in U100s. He is looking great!
 
YAY for Boy, he's looking great.

You should take a look at Catannc/Cathy's spreadsheet, her Kitten started off very much like Boy and she quickly dropped down to low doses and has gone OTJ. Her ss will show you how the progression went for them.
 
Hey, sorry I've been not keeping up, turns out I have pnuemonia, yay!

I feel you on the "this dose is too small to be helping". But for us it seemed to, we tried a trial when she got down to .2u and she couldn't do it on her own. At the end my scale was skinny 0.1, 0.1, and a fat 0.1, my guess is they were 0.05-0.15. I would try to feed her at +10 to see if she'd drop or rise enough to shoot, don't think I shot below 200. I don't think its the insulin alone providing these curves, but it does seem to help.
 
Go, Boy; looking GOOD!!!

Cathy - Sorry you have pneumonia :sad: - hope you feel better SOON!

Libby (and Hershey, too!)
 
Thanks everyone! Boy is doing extremely well at this low dose. Makes me think that we might have had even quicker results from the day he was diagnosed if he had started out on a lower dose rather than the 3u he had been on. But it is what it is.

Sue, I do plan on exchanging my new box of U40's for U100's this week. I am using up the last of my U40 syringes now and only have 8 left. I know it will be so much easier to the U100 syringes.

Rob, I will definitely look at Cathy's spreadsheet. I'm sure it will give me a better idea of what the numbers might start to look like, etc. Thanks.

Cathy, sorry you ended up with pneumonia.....hope you feel better soon. I figured I would probably need to keep Boy on the super low dose and end up like you did....fat and skinny and middle 0.1u (assuming you used U100) for awhile and watch his BG. I think it would be overly optimistic to just stop and see what happens and safer....and smarter to just keep reducing until I can't reduce anymore....then stay on that dose for a bit.
 
It certainly can work to just stop. Carl and I both did that - mostly because we hadn't heard of mini dosing. (we both had kitties who were diabetic before treatments got so "sophisticated") But you do run the risk of his body moving back up into shootable numbers and then starting a do over.

Mini dosing is stressful, absolutely. You are shooting tiny doses but at low numbers. It takes time and lots of monitoring. But usually only a week or two and you are done.

Your choice. We will promise to be here, sweating bullets with you, if you decide to minindose.

:-D nagging here. Much easier for us to keep track of you if you start a new thread each day,with the subject line whatever is happening that day.
 
lol.....it's not nagging. I did start a new one, just had answered these posts first. Easier for me too to have a post per day rather than ongoing.

Will move comment over.
 
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