Both Alpha track and prozinc readings read: "hi"
- Thread starter LittleRoo
- Start date
Jenna Josie
Active Member
Hi. I’m not sure where you are in your cycle, but I think you’re around +11? I.e., her regular shot time is in about an hour?
Have you been giving one unit for a while? (I’m not sure if I’m missing a page/tab from your spreadsheet, but it doesn’t look like it’s been updated in quite some time.). Have her numbers been climbing for a while? Any chance this is a major bounce from a very low nadir this shot cycle?
AFAIK, there’s not much to do for high numbers other than give her her shot when it’s due, and since ProZinc allows some wiggle room, if you’re within an hour of shot time, you could go ahead and shoot now as long as it’s not going to throw off your schedule going forward too much.
Have you been giving one unit for a while? (I’m not sure if I’m missing a page/tab from your spreadsheet, but it doesn’t look like it’s been updated in quite some time.). Have her numbers been climbing for a while? Any chance this is a major bounce from a very low nadir this shot cycle?
AFAIK, there’s not much to do for high numbers other than give her her shot when it’s due, and since ProZinc allows some wiggle room, if you’re within an hour of shot time, you could go ahead and shoot now as long as it’s not going to throw off your schedule going forward too much.
LittleRoo
Member
Most likely not bounce.
Spreadsheet: I started writing them on paper and haven't had a chance to get them into my spreadsheet yet.
But I also had to briefly stop her insulin the past few months due to financial and very personal reasons which I can't get into here. (Please don't judge. I love her very much!)
The first I noticed anything wrong was yesterday as she wasn't eating the wet as normal. I gave her some liver shake tonight and she ate most on her own.
I tested her (relion) at 12:30pm today and her BG was 474.
I then gave her 1 unit of insulin.
Tested again at 1:45pm BG was 502.
Tested again at 3pm BG was 530.
Tested again at 6pm and BG was 465 - which was lower than the first test which seemed better.
I would have taken her to the vet today but it's Sunday and they are closed. I am hoping to take her tomorrow AM first thing.
My worry is should I still give her a second dose at 12:30 (or now) as you mentioned to help lower her BG until we can get to the vet in the AM.
Spreadsheet: I started writing them on paper and haven't had a chance to get them into my spreadsheet yet.
But I also had to briefly stop her insulin the past few months due to financial and very personal reasons which I can't get into here. (Please don't judge. I love her very much!)
The first I noticed anything wrong was yesterday as she wasn't eating the wet as normal. I gave her some liver shake tonight and she ate most on her own.
I tested her (relion) at 12:30pm today and her BG was 474.
I then gave her 1 unit of insulin.
Tested again at 1:45pm BG was 502.
Tested again at 3pm BG was 530.
Tested again at 6pm and BG was 465 - which was lower than the first test which seemed better.
I would have taken her to the vet today but it's Sunday and they are closed. I am hoping to take her tomorrow AM first thing.
My worry is should I still give her a second dose at 12:30 (or now) as you mentioned to help lower her BG until we can get to the vet in the AM.
Jenna Josie
Active Member
No judgment at all! 
If she were my cat, yes, I would give her her shot and feed her, too. She probably feels crappy from having a high BG, which is maybe making her not want to eat as much, so try to encourage her.
The one thing I don’t know much about at all (I’m newish) is ketones. I believe they can develop quickly if the BG is too high ... if you have ketone strips on hand, you might want to get a test. Otherwise, see if she might drink a little fresh water. My kitty doesn’t really drink much on her own, but she does sometimes like to drink it from the tap or lick it off my finger. (Does she have me trained or what?). With a high BG, she may seek out more water naturally.
When was the last time you increased her dose? Were her recent cycles in the higher ranges as well?
If she were my cat, yes, I would give her her shot and feed her, too. She probably feels crappy from having a high BG, which is maybe making her not want to eat as much, so try to encourage her.
The one thing I don’t know much about at all (I’m newish) is ketones. I believe they can develop quickly if the BG is too high ... if you have ketone strips on hand, you might want to get a test. Otherwise, see if she might drink a little fresh water. My kitty doesn’t really drink much on her own, but she does sometimes like to drink it from the tap or lick it off my finger. (Does she have me trained or what?). With a high BG, she may seek out more water naturally.
When was the last time you increased her dose? Were her recent cycles in the higher ranges as well?
Jenna Josie
Active Member
Yeah, she’s probably drinking more instinctively as a way to flush the extra glucose out of her system. (Which means she’ll be peeing more, too, so definitely fresh litter in the box!)
Do you think you will be able to get her to the vet before your next shot time tomorrow afternoon? If so, great. If not, and her reading is still high, I would nonetheless think to hold the dose increase and *not* increase again until you are able to see how her body is handling this one. It can take a couple of cycles to know, as I’m sure you know.
Poor little kitty! I hope she will be feeling better very soon. Let us know how it goes at the vet.
Do you think you will be able to get her to the vet before your next shot time tomorrow afternoon? If so, great. If not, and her reading is still high, I would nonetheless think to hold the dose increase and *not* increase again until you are able to see how her body is handling this one. It can take a couple of cycles to know, as I’m sure you know.
Poor little kitty! I hope she will be feeling better very soon. Let us know how it goes at the vet.
LittleRoo
Member
She is drinking a lot of water - so good for now.
Yes, plan on taking her first thing in the morning. Not looking forward to it of course.
Yes, she will be at vet before the next dose.
She won't eat right now though, unfortunately..
Thank you... she is so miserable right now.
I do hope the insulin just before will help a little until we get to the vet.
Yes, plan on taking her first thing in the morning. Not looking forward to it of course.
Yes, she will be at vet before the next dose.
She won't eat right now though, unfortunately..
Thank you... she is so miserable right now.
I do hope the insulin just before will help a little until we get to the vet.
Jenna Josie
Active Member
Did she eat anything with or just before her shot? Maybe a flavor enhancer will help? We sprinkle a little fortiflora on Josie’s food if she turns up her nose at it ... I’ve heard some cats like regular Parmesan cheese as a food topper .
.
Jenna Josie
Active Member
I’m sorry, but I don’t know anything about the liver shake 
I do know that it’s important that she eats, but is it possible she ate a lot earlier and just truly isn’t hungry just right now? Since she seemed to like it earlier tonight, is it the kind of thing you can make up for her and leave out overnight for her? Maybe someone on your other thread over on the main forum can be more helpful regarding the shake ?
I do know that it’s important that she eats, but is it possible she ate a lot earlier and just truly isn’t hungry just right now? Since she seemed to like it earlier tonight, is it the kind of thing you can make up for her and leave out overnight for her? Maybe someone on your other thread over on the main forum can be more helpful regarding the shake ?
LittleRoo
Member
I will try to leave some out for her.
I also posted earlier on the main forum..
Just going to try and rest now and get through till the morning, and to the vet..
So stressful, I feel just terrible for her.
Thank you so much for your support and help.
I'll keep you posted later tomorrow <3
I also posted earlier on the main forum..
Just going to try and rest now and get through till the morning, and to the vet..
So stressful, I feel just terrible for her.
Thank you so much for your support and help.
I'll keep you posted later tomorrow <3
Crista & Ming
Very Active Member
Hi, I'm so sorry Little Roo isn't feeling well. I'm also quite new but have a cat that's gone through many many instances of pancreatitis.
How is her hydration? Pinch her scruff and sees if it bounces back down right away. If it stays up, then she is dehydrated. I would ask for some form of fluids either IV fluids or subq fluids at the vet.
Checking ketones is also a good idea and very important if you can. I assume your vet will want to do do a blood test to rule our pancreatitis and also a urine analysis to check for ketones if you haven't already.
Whatever she'll eat is good for the time being. If you want, you can try syringe feeding her wet food as well. Just add water and mash it up. Give her lots of water options. In times like these, I often fill up multiple bowls in places my cat might go to hide and even leave the sink running a little (I know, it's a waste of water but if he wants running water, then he can have it).
It's also helpful in times like these to have certain medications on hand such as cerenia (anti-nausea medication) and buprenorphine (pain relief). It would also be beneficial to learn how to give sub q fluids. The moment I see kitty throwing up, looking painful and lethargic, and not interested in food (he eats A LOT normally), I give him cerenia and bupe right away until I can bring him into the vet. So when you go to the vet tomorrow, you can ask for these tools to have at home if you're able to.
I hope someone with more experience chimes in in the morning! For now, breathe, keep trying to get Little Roo to eat a bit, and do a test here and there to see how her BGs are doing.
How is her hydration? Pinch her scruff and sees if it bounces back down right away. If it stays up, then she is dehydrated. I would ask for some form of fluids either IV fluids or subq fluids at the vet.
Checking ketones is also a good idea and very important if you can. I assume your vet will want to do do a blood test to rule our pancreatitis and also a urine analysis to check for ketones if you haven't already.
Whatever she'll eat is good for the time being. If you want, you can try syringe feeding her wet food as well. Just add water and mash it up. Give her lots of water options. In times like these, I often fill up multiple bowls in places my cat might go to hide and even leave the sink running a little (I know, it's a waste of water but if he wants running water, then he can have it).
It's also helpful in times like these to have certain medications on hand such as cerenia (anti-nausea medication) and buprenorphine (pain relief). It would also be beneficial to learn how to give sub q fluids. The moment I see kitty throwing up, looking painful and lethargic, and not interested in food (he eats A LOT normally), I give him cerenia and bupe right away until I can bring him into the vet. So when you go to the vet tomorrow, you can ask for these tools to have at home if you're able to.
I hope someone with more experience chimes in in the morning! For now, breathe, keep trying to get Little Roo to eat a bit, and do a test here and there to see how her BGs are doing.
LittleRoo
Member
Thank you very very much!
She has a severe high BG level.. alpha BG showed 701 at 1am. Was only getting a 'hi' reading before.
All in all it's not good and she is miserable. I feel awful for her. It's been a very rough past few months for me as well.
Going to be a long rough morning at the vet, that's for sure
She has a severe high BG level.. alpha BG showed 701 at 1am. Was only getting a 'hi' reading before.
All in all it's not good and she is miserable. I feel awful for her. It's been a very rough past few months for me as well.
Going to be a long rough morning at the vet, that's for sure
Rachel
Very Active Member
Oh I'm so sorry to hear this! It sounds like things have been rough for you both. Please know that we're not judging you for any choices you've really had no choice about. With the knowledge that she had to be taken off insulin for a bit, I'm most worried about ketones. Her symptoms could be due to that. I know you're taking her to the vet first thing today, so please do ask about that. If that's negative, ask about pancreatitis too. They can do a quick in office test that isn't as accurate as the one they send out, but it can give you a quick yes/no. From what I understand, if that test says yes, it is yes, but if it says no, it might not really mean no. I could be wrong (I don't have experience with that) but that's what I think I've heard.
As for the HI reading, Jenna was right (so glad you were here!). There's not much you can do but give insulin when it's due, or up to an hour early if it won't mess with your schedule much. I'm glad you gave insulin even though she wasn't eating much...she needs that to help her feel better. Her inappetence COULD be due to such a high BG just making her feel crappy.
As for the financial reasons, I don't want to pry into your life in any way. I just want to let you know of some options. Remember that there is Care Credit...that's something I've used during tough times. If your vet takes it (and mine all have) you can apply fast online and get an answer pretty fast. I got it between dropping my cat off and picking her up. If the bill is over $200 you have a certain length of time to pay it off at 0 interest. I know it's at least 6 months...I think it can be longer too. There's also DCIN. They help a lot of owners who are having financial troubles get insulin when they need it. Something to think about at least. Again, none of my business, but I wanted to let you know about these options in case you didn't.
Please do let us know what happens at the vet today!
As for the HI reading, Jenna was right (so glad you were here!). There's not much you can do but give insulin when it's due, or up to an hour early if it won't mess with your schedule much. I'm glad you gave insulin even though she wasn't eating much...she needs that to help her feel better. Her inappetence COULD be due to such a high BG just making her feel crappy.
As for the financial reasons, I don't want to pry into your life in any way. I just want to let you know of some options. Remember that there is Care Credit...that's something I've used during tough times. If your vet takes it (and mine all have) you can apply fast online and get an answer pretty fast. I got it between dropping my cat off and picking her up. If the bill is over $200 you have a certain length of time to pay it off at 0 interest. I know it's at least 6 months...I think it can be longer too. There's also DCIN. They help a lot of owners who are having financial troubles get insulin when they need it. Something to think about at least. Again, none of my business, but I wanted to let you know about these options in case you didn't.
Please do let us know what happens at the vet today!
Jenna Josie
Active Member
Yes, I believe the basic treatments are sub q fluids to help flush the ketones out insulin to help get the BG down. But hopefully the vet will be able to see Roo very soon and will check for that and pancreatitis. I think the having to wait while not knowing is the hardest part, and you’re just about through that!
Kris & Teasel
Very Active Member
Yes, it can be treated there. If you do take her to your vet ask specifically for them to test for ketones. They'll likely need to get a urine sample from her for that because most vets use urine ketone test strips.
No one here will judge you. You were doing the best you could while dealing with difficult circumstances. Another source of financial assistance is DCIN (Diabetic Cats In Need). The contact person on the forum is @Chris & China. You would apply and be assessed for eligibility.
Here's a suggested action plan (I'm very fond of lists!
):- have Little Roo checked by your vet for ketones (very important right now) and signs of pancreatitis (treatment is for symptoms and pain relief is key)
- get a new testing routine up and running and begin to keep your spreadsheet going again
- post here often for dosing help
- ProZinc is a good insulin for many cats but very expensive. Lantus a depot insulin and can actually end up costing you less because it's a more concentrated insulin so it lasts longer. It's very expensive in the US so people often order it from a reputable Canadian pharmacy and it works out to under $200 US for almost a year's supply at normal dose levels. Give this some thought - lots of great help on the Lantus forum for you.
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LittleRoo
Member
Thank you for all the kind wishes and taking the time to write with all the good advice. Means a lot!
Both of us home now. The vet said Little Roo has very high ketones. He didn't give me a specific number when I asked but said it was a 2 out of 3 (3 being the highest.)
He have her IV fluids and she still has a big bubble from it - which I hope will dissipate more later tonight. I hope that will help flush the ketones down.
He also sent me home with a fluid setup and 10 needles. I will do that tomorrow myself - 100ml sq a day. I hope I can do it correctly!
He also gave her two injection shots:
1. Cerenia for vomiting - just in case, and
2. a b12 shot to help make her feel better and hopefully stimulate her appetite.
He also said he noticed white blood cells in her urine so she most likely has a urinary infection. So she will be on antibiotics / Clavamox drops 15ml twice a day until gone. I will start that tonight.
Roo is still not eating though. So I syringed her 20cc of that liver shake before as well as 10 - 15cc of wet canned food mushed in water. I want to get something in her stomach.
I tested her with the AlphaTrak2 at 3:30pm and it read 339. Still high but much better than last nights "hi" readings.
I haven't given her insulin as of yet today - by the time I got home this afternoon it was so late.
I also need to start a regular timed / twice a day schedule (so I can work) so I will start that regularly tonight around 8/8:30pm and then tomorrow AM 8/8:30AM and so on going forward...
She is still pretty miserable and I feel just awful for her. I hope she can get her appetite back, get those ketones down, and we can turn her around. Time and the next few days will tell.
Thank you for any other advice going forward and I'll be sure to check in as much as possible.
One day at a time for now..
Both of us home now. The vet said Little Roo has very high ketones. He didn't give me a specific number when I asked but said it was a 2 out of 3 (3 being the highest.)
He have her IV fluids and she still has a big bubble from it - which I hope will dissipate more later tonight. I hope that will help flush the ketones down.
He also sent me home with a fluid setup and 10 needles. I will do that tomorrow myself - 100ml sq a day. I hope I can do it correctly!
He also gave her two injection shots:
1. Cerenia for vomiting - just in case, and
2. a b12 shot to help make her feel better and hopefully stimulate her appetite.
He also said he noticed white blood cells in her urine so she most likely has a urinary infection. So she will be on antibiotics / Clavamox drops 15ml twice a day until gone. I will start that tonight.
Roo is still not eating though. So I syringed her 20cc of that liver shake before as well as 10 - 15cc of wet canned food mushed in water. I want to get something in her stomach.
I tested her with the AlphaTrak2 at 3:30pm and it read 339. Still high but much better than last nights "hi" readings.
I haven't given her insulin as of yet today - by the time I got home this afternoon it was so late.
I also need to start a regular timed / twice a day schedule (so I can work) so I will start that regularly tonight around 8/8:30pm and then tomorrow AM 8/8:30AM and so on going forward...
She is still pretty miserable and I feel just awful for her. I hope she can get her appetite back, get those ketones down, and we can turn her around. Time and the next few days will tell.
Thank you for any other advice going forward and I'll be sure to check in as much as possible.
One day at a time for now..
Rachel
Very Active Member
Oh no! I'm so sorry to hear Roo has ketones. I'm very surprised to hear that the vet didn't keep her. Did they not even suggest it?
Do you have ketone strips at home? You'll want to check every time you can...definitely every day...until she's clear. You'll definitely need her to eat and to give insulin. Might try picking up different types of food to see if she'll eat it...even dry food maybe? Does she like anything like tuna juice you could use to entice her to eat?
Do you have ketone strips at home? You'll want to check every time you can...definitely every day...until she's clear. You'll definitely need her to eat and to give insulin. Might try picking up different types of food to see if she'll eat it...even dry food maybe? Does she like anything like tuna juice you could use to entice her to eat?
LittleRoo
Member
The vet said I could see how tonight goes and if anything gets worse, to come in tomorrow. Playing that one by ear.
I do have ketone strips now - although since we got back she hasn't been eating or using the liter box yet. But I am keeping on eye if she gets up to use the box so I can test.
My main issue is she still isn't eating. I am gong to have to syringe feed her.. I may try tunafish - anything that will get her to eat!
I can even give her high carb wet foods, until she's eating on her own, right? She lost so much weight... and she is so lethargic.
I do have ketone strips now - although since we got back she hasn't been eating or using the liter box yet. But I am keeping on eye if she gets up to use the box so I can test.
My main issue is she still isn't eating. I am gong to have to syringe feed her.. I may try tunafish - anything that will get her to eat!
I can even give her high carb wet foods, until she's eating on her own, right? She lost so much weight... and she is so lethargic.
Jenna Josie
Active Member
Here’s a video for giving sub q. http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/how-to-give-subcutaneous-fluids-video.75933/
My old cat needed this for his kidney issues when he became elderly. I actually found it quite easy, and my old boy could be mean as sin lol! (Seriously. He sent one vet to the hospital!
). I’m sure LittleRoo will be a trooper for you. IIRC, the main trick is getting them to hold still because it takes a few minutes for the fluids to drip from the bag and into the kitty, and you don’t want her to walk away and pull the needle out halfway through! I had a cat sac for Michino, but I think wrapping the cat up in a towel (with a little gap near the scruff where the needle will go) should work well, too. I also remember that I hung the fluids bag from a door with the kitty on the floor so that gravity helped the fluid more quickly through the tubing.
My old cat needed this for his kidney issues when he became elderly. I actually found it quite easy, and my old boy could be mean as sin lol! (Seriously. He sent one vet to the hospital!
). I’m sure LittleRoo will be a trooper for you. IIRC, the main trick is getting them to hold still because it takes a few minutes for the fluids to drip from the bag and into the kitty, and you don’t want her to walk away and pull the needle out halfway through! I had a cat sac for Michino, but I think wrapping the cat up in a towel (with a little gap near the scruff where the needle will go) should work well, too. I also remember that I hung the fluids bag from a door with the kitty on the floor so that gravity helped the fluid more quickly through the tubing.
LittleRoo
Member
Thank you Jenna! I will def watch that tonight! Big help!
Now if only I could get Roo to eat!
Does you or anyone else know how much can wet food and water mushed together I should be syringing her daily? What is the ratio?
It shouldn't be too soupy, right? And could I mix the wet and water in the food processor to blend it better?
Now if only I could get Roo to eat!
Does you or anyone else know how much can wet food and water mushed together I should be syringing her daily? What is the ratio?
It shouldn't be too soupy, right? And could I mix the wet and water in the food processor to blend it better?
Jenna Josie
Active Member
I do not have any experience with assist feeding or ketones, but from what I've picked up reading on boards for kitties who were being assist fed, it's not about number of times per day but rather about getting enough calories into them, however much assist feeding that takes.
I did find this: http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/syringe-assisted-feeding-video-and-tips.144367/
I did find this: http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/syringe-assisted-feeding-video-and-tips.144367/
Kris & Teasel
Very Active Member
Ketones can make them feel nauseous so that'll kill appetite. A hefty dose of antinausea meds first and foremost is in order, followed by an appetite stimulant if kitty still won't eat. Cerenia can help with nausea but ondansetron works better either alone or in tandem with Cerenia to fight the nausea. Ondansetron if a human drug for the nausea caused by chemotherapy. The keys to getting rid of ketones are calories, enough insulin and good hydration. You don't want to skip insulin or underdose her right now. She MUST eat and it might have to be higher carb to support a good enough insulin dose.
Crista & Ming
Very Active Member
I hope the night sees some improvement with Little Roo. But I would definitely go back to the vet if you're able to if you don't see Roo eating. Once she's on IV fluids, it can better help flush out all those ketones. Did the doctor not prescribe any pain medication? I would ask for that as well.
I can't tell you for sure how much to feed at once but go slow and start small. You don't want kitty to gag or feel even more nauseas.
You can definitely use the food processor. Next time, you can also pick up some A/D canned food from the vet. It's a good consistency to syringe feed.
I can't tell you for sure how much to feed at once but go slow and start small. You don't want kitty to gag or feel even more nauseas.
LittleRoo
Member
Thank you, me too!
They did IV fluids today and I will do them at home tomorrow and see how it goes.
The vet said she wasn't in any pain so I didn't ask for pain meds.
She's been ok with the syringe feeding thus far. I mean she doesn't like it sometimes but she HAS to eat.
I'm just not sure how much to give her everyday - via syringe feeding.
I did syringe her some of that fancy feast broth tonight as well as more liver shake. I also syringed her some electrolyte water.
I tied tuna fish as well as even Temptation treats as she used to love them but she hasn't eaten any yet.
They did IV fluids today and I will do them at home tomorrow and see how it goes.
The vet said she wasn't in any pain so I didn't ask for pain meds.
She's been ok with the syringe feeding thus far. I mean she doesn't like it sometimes but she HAS to eat.
I'm just not sure how much to give her everyday - via syringe feeding.
I did syringe her some of that fancy feast broth tonight as well as more liver shake. I also syringed her some electrolyte water.
I tied tuna fish as well as even Temptation treats as she used to love them but she hasn't eaten any yet.
Crista & Ming
Very Active Member
Do you mean subq fluids? Meaning they put some fluids under her skin and it created a little pocket?
IV fluids is when they place a catheter right into their vein on their arm and get a bag that pumps fluids (usually normosol or lactated ringers solution) at a certain rate for hours. Your vet might suggest to keep Little Roo overnight and get all those fluids in her and those ketones out.
I would ask for buprenorphine/pain relief anyway. There are little to no side effects and works wonderful for cats. Sometimes, they don't seem to be in pain but they're just really good at hiding it.
I hope someone can chime in on how much to feed! For now, keep at it
Crista & Ming
Very Active Member
No need to apologize! Just wanted to make sure I understood correctly
Sending healing and positive vines to you and Little Roo
Sending healing and positive vines to you and Little Roo
Kris & Teasel
Very Active Member
If you have an immersion blender you can puree wet food really well into a soft mousse consistency. Add a enough warm water to get a thickness that you can syringe easily. Pedialyte is good oral fluid replacement if she'll take it by syringe. You need to get as much food (calories) into her as possible. Try figuring out how many syringes of pureed food are in a regular can of wet food and aim to give that place at least half a can more. It's more than you might think.
What insulin dose are you giving right now? It would help us to help you if you start adding all that info to your SS.
What insulin dose are you giving right now? It would help us to help you if you start adding all that info to your SS.
LittleRoo
Member
I am giving Roo 1.5 units of Prozinc. I will add the info to her spreadsheet later today. (exhausted)
I also would like to get larger 10cc syringes - to pre-make the wet mushy blended food into them - as in the above video from Jenna.
Would I be able to pick 10cc syringes up at a nearby pet store or Walgreens, etc? I know I could probably ask vet in a pinch but would just rather buy them local if possible.
I still have canned cat low carb wet food that I have been using to syringe. Should I go get some high carb wet food cans to use instead for now, for calories?
I also use Friskies canned (pate's.) Those are 5.5 oz. Should I aim for one of those cans per day? Given over the space of the day i multiple syringes?
I also would like to get larger 10cc syringes - to pre-make the wet mushy blended food into them - as in the above video from Jenna.
Would I be able to pick 10cc syringes up at a nearby pet store or Walgreens, etc? I know I could probably ask vet in a pinch but would just rather buy them local if possible.
I still have canned cat low carb wet food that I have been using to syringe. Should I go get some high carb wet food cans to use instead for now, for calories?
I also use Friskies canned (pate's.) Those are 5.5 oz. Should I aim for one of those cans per day? Given over the space of the day i multiple syringes?
Kris & Teasel
Very Active Member
You could try a pet store or maybe a human pharmacy.
It's two things: she needs calories to fight off more ketone development and high enough carbs to have a BG level that allows you to give a big enough insulin dose. Maybe try medium carbs for now? You could mix LC and HC.
That's a good goal - more if you can get it into her. Ketones happen for a slew of reasons, often occurring together: not eating enough (lack of calories), dehydration from vomiting, diarrhea, not enough insulin (dose too low, etc.) and possibly some other infection or inflammation (dental, UTI, pancreatitis, etc.). Kitty's body starts to break down its own fat to get energy because there aren't enough calories coming in from food or not enough insulin to get energy from the food calories fed.
LittleRoo
Member
Afternoon update:
I could only get 6cc syringes from vet for syringe feeding. All the pet stores near me didn't have any.
But the 6cc's seem to be worse than the only really small one I was using so I am back to the small one for now Is there any way to oil the 6cc ones? Maybe use olive oil just to loosen the stickiness up? Might try again.
She is tough to syringe feed. I wrap a towel around her which helps but it's still tough. It is one very messy task. Some foods blend much better than others (less crumblings) I am finding as well. I find more ends up on me or the floor or towel than in her mouth sometimes.
I almost got Roo to eat one Temptation snack before as she used to love them! I think she remembers and just likes the sound of shaking the bag though. I left several out, two other ones broken into pieces. Maybe she'll eat one when I'm not looking? I've also tried tuna-fish but no avail. Also tried those fresh fancy feast snacks (salmon) which she liked smelling but wouldn't eat of course
I got some higher carb Friskies can cat before and blended one high carb and low carb wet can, so I'm trying that in the syringe feedings.
I did a relion ketone test yesterday (Monday) and it was 80/Large.
I caught her peeing this afternoon and got another and it was lower: 40/Moderate!
I hope that keeps happening! I'll try to test her ketones as much as I can catch her.
My first time doing her sub q fluids went well this morning which was a relief. She loves drinking water too, always has, and has been drinking from the bathroom sink where I've been keeping her now, so that's good. She's currently asleep in the sink in fact. Picture(s) attached. If it makes her feel better, she can sleep wherever she wants!
I did have one issue last night though - she pee'd in the bed even though I had a liter box in the room as well I know she couldn't help it and it wasn't her fault as I think she was tired and weak and the ketones needed to come out! Was a big mess though..
She's never done that before. So I am keeping her in the bathroom, for now.
She did use the liter box in the bathroom earlier so that made me happy!
Just wish she would eat a tiny bit on her own. I worry she's just not getting enough too. I feed every few hours right now. I am going to have to go to work tomorrow too although hopefully can sneak away for a quick lunch feeding with her.
My other concern is I don't think she has pooped in a while. (maybe since Saturday or Sunday?) I know she hasn't eaten much those days but hope that doesn't worsen her problems. I always used to add Miralax and Lactulose in her wet food and didn't even think to ask, should I also put that into her syringe feedings? I am thinking I should! She hasn't had any since the last time she ate - which was Saturday I believe.
Will try and work on spreadsheet later although I am exhausted right now and have to rest a while.
Thank you for all the great responses and advice thus far!
I could only get 6cc syringes from vet for syringe feeding. All the pet stores near me didn't have any.
But the 6cc's seem to be worse than the only really small one I was using so I am back to the small one for now
Is there any way to oil the 6cc ones? Maybe use olive oil just to loosen the stickiness up? Might try again.She is tough to syringe feed. I wrap a towel around her which helps but it's still tough. It is one very messy task. Some foods blend much better than others (less crumblings) I am finding as well. I find more ends up on me or the floor or towel than in her mouth sometimes.
I almost got Roo to eat one Temptation snack before as she used to love them! I think she remembers and just likes the sound of shaking the bag though. I left several out, two other ones broken into pieces. Maybe she'll eat one when I'm not looking? I've also tried tuna-fish but no avail. Also tried those fresh fancy feast snacks (salmon) which she liked smelling but wouldn't eat of course
I got some higher carb Friskies can cat before and blended one high carb and low carb wet can, so I'm trying that in the syringe feedings.
I did a relion ketone test yesterday (Monday) and it was 80/Large.
I caught her peeing this afternoon and got another and it was lower: 40/Moderate!
I hope that keeps happening! I'll try to test her ketones as much as I can catch her.
My first time doing her sub q fluids went well this morning which was a relief. She loves drinking water too, always has, and has been drinking from the bathroom sink where I've been keeping her now, so that's good. She's currently asleep in the sink in fact. Picture(s) attached. If it makes her feel better, she can sleep wherever she wants!
I did have one issue last night though - she pee'd in the bed even though I had a liter box in the room as well
I know she couldn't help it and it wasn't her fault as I think she was tired and weak and the ketones needed to come out! Was a big mess though.. She's never done that before. So I am keeping her in the bathroom, for now.
She did use the liter box in the bathroom earlier so that made me happy!
Just wish she would eat a tiny bit on her own. I worry she's just not getting enough too. I feed every few hours right now. I am going to have to go to work tomorrow too although hopefully can sneak away for a quick lunch feeding with her.
My other concern is I don't think she has pooped in a while. (maybe since Saturday or Sunday?) I know she hasn't eaten much those days but hope that doesn't worsen her problems. I always used to add Miralax and Lactulose in her wet food and didn't even think to ask, should I also put that into her syringe feedings? I am thinking I should! She hasn't had any since the last time she ate - which was Saturday I believe.
Will try and work on spreadsheet later although I am exhausted right now and have to rest a while.
Thank you for all the great responses and advice thus far!
LittleRoo
Member
OMG!! Is this possible?? I just caught her peeing and took a ketone test!
Monday was large 80, this afternoon was moderate 40, and now 5 trace!?
I hope this is true!
Roo is still not eating on her own though and she is still very moopy and tired...
How I wish she would just start eating again! She lost so much weight..
Not out of the woods yet.
I'm not sure what to think...
Crista & Ming
Very Active Member
WooO!!!!!! The photo actually looks like negative to me but the lighting is probably better in your home. I would still continue testing for ketones because she is still not eating.
Have you spoken to your vet again? Maybe ask for an appetite stimulant (cypro is something that was recommended to me but I also know vets give mirtazapine but that can make them feel loopy) but definitely some anti-nausea medication (cerenia). She won't eat if she feels bad. Please continue with the fluids and syringe feeding until your vet says otherwise.
Have you spoken to your vet again? Maybe ask for an appetite stimulant (cypro is something that was recommended to me but I also know vets give mirtazapine but that can make them feel loopy) but definitely some anti-nausea medication (cerenia). She won't eat if she feels bad. Please continue with the fluids and syringe feeding until your vet says otherwise.
Rachel
Very Active Member
All right! That's awesome! Getting food into her and getting insulin in does help with ketones. And she's on antibiotics right? That might be helping too if she has an infection...kicking that will help bring ketones down. Has your vet mentioned an appetite stimulant? I'd ask for one if they haven't because maybe that will help Roo eat. Also, do you have Cerenia at home to give?
I'm sure you're both exhausted! Treating ketones at home is HARD. We get it it...it's not always feasible to leave them at the vet, and I've seen it successfully treated at home, but goodness knows it's hard. Yes keep checking for ketones every time she pees if you can and keep syringing food until she eats on her own. And get some rest when you can! You're doing great and Roo is improving!
I'm sure you're both exhausted! Treating ketones at home is HARD. We get it it...it's not always feasible to leave them at the vet, and I've seen it successfully treated at home, but goodness knows it's hard. Yes keep checking for ketones every time she pees if you can and keep syringing food until she eats on her own. And get some rest when you can! You're doing great and Roo is improving!
Kris & Teasel
Very Active Member
That looks looks something between negative and trace - great news! I agree with the advice to push for an appetite stimulant but you need to treat nausea first. Not eating can create a whole other nest of problems like hepatic lipidosis or a resurgence of ketones.
I agree with the advice to push for an appetite stimulant but you need to treat nausea first. Not eating can create a whole other nest of problems like hepatic lipidosis or a resurgence of ketones.
LittleRoo
Member
Thank you all! Better morning today but still a ways to go I think.
She was so much more perky when I woke up this morning! More than I've seen her be in a while. Tested her BG with AlphaTRak2 and she was 277. She seemed like she might eat too with her mood so I gave her multiple choices of wet food plus tuna-fish and a FF broth packet as well as 4 Temptation snacks. She licked a tiny bit of the tuna-fish and maybe one or two licks from one of the wet cans. But that was it. She wanted to eat a Temptation snack, pushed it around but didn't eat it though. Dang! I thought I was almost witnessing a miracle this morning. So, I syringed fed her as much as she would allow me - with some liver shake and salmon pate blended. (I sneak in a little Pedialyte syringed too.)
She isn't throwing up so far so that's good. If she does or starts then I will ask for Cerenia for anti-nausea.
Yes, she is on Antibiotics too. Clavamox twice a day.
Just gave her her sub q fluids and she's been very good about that.
Hasn't pee'd yet, since last night and that great low reading, but hoping the fluids will move that along and encourage more peeing (and testing) today.
I did speak with the vet last night about her Lactulose and Miralax she's been on to help her constipation. He said to keep her going on that - so I syringed that into her last night and will again tonight (which she gets once a day.)
That is my concern now though - she hasn't pooped yet! That HAS to happen soon!! I don't think she has pooped either, since the weekend.
I will call the vet today and ask about the Cypro for appetite stimulant. Maybe that will help.
Just have to get her to eat on her own, and poop!! God willing.
Thanks for all the excellent advice! I'll update later
She was so much more perky when I woke up this morning! More than I've seen her be in a while. Tested her BG with AlphaTRak2 and she was 277. She seemed like she might eat too with her mood so I gave her multiple choices of wet food plus tuna-fish and a FF broth packet as well as 4 Temptation snacks. She licked a tiny bit of the tuna-fish and maybe one or two licks from one of the wet cans. But that was it. She wanted to eat a Temptation snack, pushed it around but didn't eat it though. Dang! I thought I was almost witnessing a miracle this morning. So, I syringed fed her as much as she would allow me - with some liver shake and salmon pate blended. (I sneak in a little Pedialyte syringed too.)
She isn't throwing up so far so that's good. If she does or starts then I will ask for Cerenia for anti-nausea.
Yes, she is on Antibiotics too. Clavamox twice a day.
Just gave her her sub q fluids and she's been very good about that.
Hasn't pee'd yet, since last night and that great low reading, but hoping the fluids will move that along and encourage more peeing (and testing) today.
I did speak with the vet last night about her Lactulose and Miralax she's been on to help her constipation. He said to keep her going on that - so I syringed that into her last night and will again tonight (which she gets once a day.)
That is my concern now though - she hasn't pooped yet! That HAS to happen soon!! I don't think she has pooped either, since the weekend.
I will call the vet today and ask about the Cypro for appetite stimulant. Maybe that will help.
Just have to get her to eat on her own, and poop!! God willing.
Thanks for all the excellent advice! I'll update later
LittleRoo
Member
Thank you! Trying my best
Roo ate a tiny bit of tuna-fish on her own tonight but wasn't enough. Went to vet and picked up Mirtazapine.
1/4 pill (15mg) every 72 hours. Think it made her feel crummy just before Hopefully, it will kick her appetite into gear soon though.
Hope th side effects are not too bad.
I updated her spreadsheet - minus the few months I/we lost and now into this month.
Hope I can get her back on track. It upsets me such a great deal when I think on that time.
She was in much better spirits today - which I am happy about.
Just hope she will make a poop soon!! Guess that goes hand in hand with eating more regularly. It is a worry if she doesn't poop soon!
She's currently sleeping in her little bed... most likely drowsy from the Mirtazapine. I will try and rest too.
One day at a time still <3
Roo ate a tiny bit of tuna-fish on her own tonight but wasn't enough. Went to vet and picked up Mirtazapine.
1/4 pill (15mg) every 72 hours. Think it made her feel crummy just before
Hopefully, it will kick her appetite into gear soon though.Hope th side effects are not too bad.
I updated her spreadsheet - minus the few months I/we lost and now into this month.
Hope I can get her back on track. It upsets me such a great deal when I think on that time.
She was in much better spirits today - which I am happy about.
Just hope she will make a poop soon!! Guess that goes hand in hand with eating more regularly. It is a worry if she doesn't poop soon!
She's currently sleeping in her little bed... most likely drowsy from the Mirtazapine. I will try and rest too.
One day at a time still <3
Djamila
Very Active Member
Don't let the past upset you. You were doing the best you could.
Does Roo also have cerenia or ondansetron? They are used for nausea. Usually when giving mirtz, you want to give an anti-nausea first if you can.
And yes, hopefully she will poor for you soon!
Such good news that she ate at least a tiny bit on her own. Every little step forward is good!
Does Roo also have cerenia or ondansetron? They are used for nausea. Usually when giving mirtz, you want to give an anti-nausea first if you can.
And yes, hopefully she will poor for you soon!
Such good news that she ate at least a tiny bit on her own. Every little step forward is good!
Rachel
Very Active Member
Don't let what happened before bother you! I know it's easy to blame yourself an spend time in guilt, but it won't help. Sometimes, we have to do things that are less than ideal. You've been doing the best you can for Roo, and she is on the mend I think. You're doing so much for her now and I'm sure you're exhausted and worried, but give it some time! Little Roo is going to get there.
Glad to hear she ate a bit. Yes, you want to give Cerenia or another anti nausea first to help resolve any nausea. The appetite stimulant can then help her eat on her own hopefully!
Keep us updated! Sending tons of healing and eating vines to Little Roo!
Glad to hear she ate a bit. Yes, you want to give Cerenia or another anti nausea first to help resolve any nausea. The appetite stimulant can then help her eat on her own hopefully!
Keep us updated! Sending tons of healing and eating vines to Little Roo!
Kris & Teasel
Very Active Member
You're doing really well in a difficult situation!
I agree with the advice to give an antinausea med like Cerenia (if you have it at home) or ondansetron (needs a vet prescription and filling at a human pharmacy usually) before the appy med. Sometimes taking care of nausea alone will get them eating.
I agree with the advice to give an antinausea med like Cerenia (if you have it at home) or ondansetron (needs a vet prescription and filling at a human pharmacy usually) before the appy med. Sometimes taking care of nausea alone will get them eating.
LittleRoo
Member
Roo is slowly starting to pick at the wet foods. Foods: as in I have been giving her multiple choices of wet foods as well as people tuna fish. Anything to get her to eat. She didnt eat enough this morning so I did also syringe feed her, before her insulin shoot.
She hasnt been vomiting at all though - so I'm not sure I need antinausea meds, yet. I do think the Marazapein might be now slowly helping too. It def hit her when I gave it to her the first time last night. She's def loopy from it.
Shes been much more spirited and perky though! So thankful for that.
Still just waiting on a poop!
She hasnt been vomiting at all though - so I'm not sure I need antinausea meds, yet. I do think the Marazapein might be now slowly helping too. It def hit her when I gave it to her the first time last night. She's def loopy from it.
Shes been much more spirited and perky though! So thankful for that.
Still just waiting on a poop!
LittleRoo
Member
No, not yet, as far as I know (she sneaked out this morning for 5 minutes and used the other liter box when I wasn't looking, ugg.)Any news on the poop?
Have to just keep an eye on that still. She has been picking more at her wet food though! And she's on the Lactulose and Miralax so hopefully that will help too!
Ketones are still negative, thank God!
Kris & Teasel
Very Active Member
Hurray for negative ketones! BTW - they can have nausea without vomiting. That could still be an issue if she's not responding strongly to the mirtazapine.
Housekeeping item: would you mind removing the red 911 from your thread title?
Housekeeping item: would you mind removing the red 911 from your thread title?