Bo's numbers

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Folks, Linda and Bo's previous thread is here: viewtopic.php?f=28&t=124032

Linda, I think you and Bo can get some much needed rest!
You could test him occasionally during the day if you want to (to see when (and how fast) his blood glucose rises). But it's looking very stable at the moment. That is very good news...

It will be interesting to see what his blood glucose is at the time his next shot is due. And I'm sure the folks who helped you last night will be keen to see how you and Bo are doing, and will be able to offer dosing advice etc.

I'm about to dash out now, but others will be online soon to help.

Well done!

Eliz
 
Great job, Linda!

Enjoy your much earned sleep!

Have you considered posting in the Tight Regulation Forum? You may get a lot more eyes on you in there....there is also the Relaxed Lantus Forum....You can check out each protocol and see which one would work best for you....

So far the Tight Regulation forum has helped my Skooter go from a dry diet and 5u of Lantus twice a day to an all wet diet (with a little raw) and we are down to .25 u of Lantus twice a day....

I may not be around for his PM pre shot, but I will be curious when I get back home to see what Bo is at! Great surf!!!

sport-graphics-surfing-525547.gif
 
You did a great job last night.

What we can definitely tell you is that 1 unit is too much.
And if you've got the diet change to low carb going, that may have done the trick in getting his glucose lower.
Also, cats who have gone very low in insulin may now be more sensitive to it; you'll want to be very cautious about any further dosing.

We use a really handy grid to record our daily glucose tests - it color codes the values to give you a clue about how the cat is doing. Instructions are here.

Understanding the spreadsheet/grid:

The colored headings at the top are the ranges of glucose values. They are color-coded to clue you in as to meaning.

Each day is 1 row. Each column stores different data for the day.

From left to right, you enter
the Date in the first column
the AMPS (morning pre-shot test) in the 2nd column
the Units given (turquoise column)

Then, there are 11 columns labeled +1 through +11
If you test at +5 (5 hours after the shot), you enter the test number in the +5 column
If you test at +7 (7 hours after the shot), you enter the test number in the +7 column
and so on.

Halfway across the page is the column for PMPS (evening pre-shot)
To the right is another turquoise column for Units given at the evening shot.

There is second set of columns labeled +1 through +11
If you snag a before bed test at +3, you enter the test number in the +3 column.

We separate day and night numbers like that because many cats go lower at night.

It is merely a grid for storing the info; no math required.
 
Hope you got some well deserved sleep Linda!!

When you come back, do us a favor and go back to yesterday's post and remove the 911 from the first subject line. Just "edit" that first line and choose "none" instead of any of the 911 icon.

When you use one of the icons (like the 911 or the ? ), once your emergency is over or your question is answered, you should go back and remove it so that others that come in later won't see a 911 and panic to help (when it's been over for awhile)... and if (Heaven forbid) you posted a 911, got the help you needed and then something ELSE happened that was an emergency, if you hadn't taken it off, those of us that had been watching the last time might think it's the same problem we'd already talked you through.

Bo's looking great so far! It will be very important to get that spreadsheet program up so all his test results are in one place. You'll see pretty much all of us have the link to our spreadsheet in our signature so if we need help, it's there for people to look at to see what's been going on.

Be a good kitty Bo and let your mama get some rest today! You really gave her a scare last night!
 
+16 - 165bg
No shot given this am.

Well, the nap thing didn't work out too good. I might have dozed off a couple of times but definitely not enough.
 
Well that's not fair! I bet Bo has slept comfortably all day long too!!

Seems like he could stay awake to keep you company and offer moral support :lol:
 
Lol. Yeah, really. Poor thing. I had to stick him 5 times this time.

I downloaded the chart. I didn't think it would work with my cell phone but it does.
 
Got another good number!
+20 - 158bg

I had WWIII trying to stick him though. After his pmps how often should I test him?
 
Depends on if you shoot or not

Can you add the link to your spreadsheet to your signature? I know there's not much information yet, but it'll be helpful to have it

Depending on where he is then, it might even be good to drop back to .5 unit instead of just taking the .25 reduction he earned last night. Since we don't have any data on him yet, it might be safer to start lower and work your way up

Hopefully some of the others will have time to chime in before you have to decide what to do
 
Hmmm....good question!

Not sure about that! From a computer, you just copy the link (either from the address bar or from the "share" button on the top right corner)

Do you know someone who has a computer who could add it to your signature for you?

The only other thing I can think of would be for you to add someone else as a "collaborator" (Invite them via email) and give them your sign on info here (you can always change the password later) and have them do it for you
 
hi linda!

i read through your post from yesterday - i'm wondering, can you tell us the story of what you've done before now? looks like Bo has been diabetic for a while.

most new people will skip a shot if the blood sugar is less than 200.

julie
 
I think you'd need to "invite" someone to be a collaborator on your spreadsheet

Then they could sign in and get the link for you, set the permissions to "anyone with the link" and then put the link into your signature here. I've started spreadsheets for people in the past and then added them as collaborators until they learned how to use it and then gave them sole ownership, so I THINK that if you had someone do it once, after that you could remove them as a collaborator and then as long as you kept the spreadsheet updated, it automatically updates on Google and all we'd have to do is click on the link to see the latest version

Having the spreadsheet isn't going to help unless you understand how to read it, so to help you to help Bo, we really need to be able to see it too.
 
Does your phone have a web browser? You'll need to log in to the spreadsheet from a web browser in order to get the sharing link.
 
I have chrome browser. Right now I'm having trouble getting into my google account because I forgot my password.

When Bo was first diagnosed I took him in every week for a bg test and the vet kept adjusting his dosage of Prozinc. He also put him on dry prescription food. When he finally figured out the dosage I just went with it until April of this year. He stopped eating and drinking and was very lethargic. I took him to a new vet. He was in the hospital for 2 days and came out with Lantus and wet food. A week later he went for a 24 hour curve test. He is on 1 unit twice a day. Last night he was kinda lethargic so I decided to test his blood and he was a little low. And now I'm here. I never tested him before because my original vet said that a human meter wouldn't work for a cat.
 
See my signature link Glucometer Notes.

It isn't that a human glucometer won't work, it is that you need reference numbers for cats when you use them. We have them in my link, plus info on how the numbers could be used.
 
since he's over 200, you could give him his shot tonight. he got a reduction from his dose last night, right? i don't have that post open right now, but i believe that Marje said to reduce him by 0.25u and that would be to a new dose of 0.75u.
 
All bgs:
8-23 shot 1u 9pm
+2.5 - 53
+3.5 - 47
+4.5 - 59
+5 - 70
+6 - 81
+7 - 90
+8 - 119
+9 - 99
+10 - 100
+11 - 118
Am ps - 113
No shot given
+16 - 165
+20 - 158
Pm ps - 239
Gave .25
 
Stick with the 0.25 for tonight; don't re-shoot to get 0.75 units in.

If he does OK on 0.25 and isn't sky high tomorrow either (low 200s), you might stick to that dose for 3 full days and see how it goes.
 
Did you only give .25? Or .75?

The reduction he earned would have taken him from 1 unit down to .75 (a .25 unit decrease) but if you did only shoot .25, we'll just see what happens. Don't try to add another .5 now

If he needs the higher dose, he'll let us know in the next few cycles.
 
Good morning!

Are you able to test today? Lantus really needs to be dosed at the same level for at least 6 cycles so it has time to settle in and we can see how low any particular dose is going to take him.

Lantus dosing is based on the nadir (the lowest point in the cycle), not the pre-shot numbers. Since he'd been on 1 unit before, but that had dropped him too low Sat. night, he had "earned a reduction" back to .75. That's why we'd suggested the .75 last night instead of the .25.

From the Lantus protocol:
"General" Guidelines:
Hold the initial starting dose for 5 - 7 days (10 - 14 consecutive cycles) unless the numbers tell you otherwise. Kitties experiencing high flat curves or prone to ketones may want to increase the starting dose after 3 days (6 consecutive cycles).
Each subsequent dose is held for a minimum of 3 days (6 consecutive cycles) unless kitty earns a reduction (See: Reducing the dose...).
Adjustments to dose are based on nadirs with only some consideration given to preshot numbers.

Increasing the dose:
Hold the dose for 3 - 5 days (6 - 10 consecutive cycles) if nadirs are less than 200 before increasing the dose by 0.25 unit.
if your cat is new to numbers under 200, it is recommended to hold the dose for at least 8-10 cycles before increasing.
when your cat starts to see nadirs under 100, hold the dose for at least 10 cycles before increasing.
After 3 days (6 consecutive cycles)... if nadirs are greater than 200, but less than 300 increase the dose by 0.25 unit.
After 3 days (6 consecutive cycles)... if nadirs are greater than 300 increase the dose by 0.5 unit.

Reducing the dose:
If kitty drops below 40 (long term diabetic) or 50 (newly diagnosed diabetic) reduce the dose by 0.25 unit. If kitty has a history of not holding reductions well or if reductions are close together... sneak the dose down by shaving the dose rather than reducing by a full quarter unit. See additional notes in the next paragraph about drops into the 20s and 30s. Alternatively, at each newly reduced dose... try to make sure kitty maintains numbers in the normal range for seven days before reducing the dose further.
Click to expand...

If he's over 200 at AMPS time, I'd go ahead and give the .75 and see how he does, OR since you gave .25 last night, go ahead and stay with that dose for several more cycles to see how it'll do.

It takes several cycles at the same dose before you can really know how it's going to work
 
AM PS - 214
. 25 given.
How often should I test today?

I tried to create a new Google account but it keeps erasing the password so I'm gonna have to wait until they get around to unlocking my original account.
 
it would be great if you had a spreadsheet.... it's helpful for the advice givers and for you to see progress.

spreadsheet instructions

If you have trouble, there are a few here who can help you set one up. ( someone helped me)
Just ask.



since you gave a lower dose, I 'd get something ike a +4 and a +8....
I like data myself.....
 
For Lantus, the nadir is often sometime between +5 to +7 hours after a shot. The nadir can move around a bit, so testing at least 1 time in that period when you can, with day to day variation in time, will help you see if he is going too low so you can adjust his dose if needed.
 
Great and I will hide my neck from now on!

Wonderful job mom!!!

and look at those numbers on a .25! dancing_cat

So happy things are going good! Go Bo Go!!!!!
 
Pm ps - 285
.25 given.

I think Bo might finally be getting used to this. He hasn't fought me the last 4 times so I was able to get him first try.
 
What does his breath smell like?

Is he dehydrated at all?

See my signature link Secondary Monitoring Tools for tips on assessing these items, as well as others.
 
He has horrible breath. It's been that way for a while. He's also drooling somewhat. I think he might have bad teeth.
He's definitely is not dehydrated. I always mix 1/2 can of water in with his food.
 
sounds like he really needs to go in and have his teeth looked at...bad teeth, infection, pain, inflammation can all raise BG levels as well as making them harder to control

If there's any way you can, I'd get him in for a dental.....it could literally be the difference between getting him OTJ soon or having to work a lot longer (and the longer we go, the less likely they are to go OTJ....although you never say never!
 
+6 - 205bg
+9 - 275bg

I know he needs to go to the vet. I would like to take him back to the vet he saw in April but that is over 70 miles away. Idk, maybe I'll take him there anyway. I don't like the vet he was seeing cuz they demanded cash up front when Bo was so sick. All they care about is the money. I have to wait till I get my ssi cuz as usual I'm broke. :?

Just wondering... how much longer do I have to keep testing him? I've been awake since Saturday morning. I have horrible insomnia and the only way I sleep is if I take sleeping pills then I'm out for at least 6 hours.
 
You don't have to test every 3 hours....You need to test at least 4 times a day

ALWAYS Pre-shot to make sure he's high enough to give insulin
Somewhere between +5 and +7 on the AM cycle

A "before bed" test on the PM cycle

Now, those are minimums.....the more tests you get, the more "data ready" you'll be, which helps make decisions later on when it might be time to increase. There are also some tests that are just really helpful to have, like a +2 since that can give you a pretty good idea what might be going on later in the cycle and give you some "early warning" that you might want to test more frequently. But any tests over those main 4 tests are just because you want the data so you're able to help Bo get under better control as fast as possible. The more data you have, the easier it is to make good decisions on what dose to give and when.

In a nutshell, as long as you get those 4 tests per day, you don't have to keep getting up all night for tests every night. If he's high enough at PMPS and his "before bed" test doesn't say anything different, you could go to bed at that point and sleep until the next morning's AMPS time
 
Hello Ms. Linda and Mr. Bo! I hope things are leveling out a bit, and testing is getting easier.
We think of you everyday and so glad to see you are posting on the board with this wonderful
group of folks!
Great Job!!!!!
:thumbup
 
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