Boomer - getting biopsy tomorrow

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Traci and Boomer

Traci and Boomer

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Something just isn't right with him and it's starting to really concern me. On April 13th he started vomiting once daily (not every day but most). He's got a history of IBD, diabetes (now OTJ and diet controlled), chronic pancreatitis (now resolved) and he's not even 4 yet!!!!

I saw my vet on Monday. She confirmed that his GI tract is thickened. He takes budesonide for IBD and we've doubled the dose. It's not helping. I've switched all his food to non grain wet food since Wed. with no improvement. His pee and poop seem normal. He's usually a big eater, but has gone through stages where he's picky or won't eat much. He's lost a pound since November and is now considered underweight at 8.6 lbs.

I've decided I need to bring him to an ER vet recommended to me by a vet friend of my BF's. I need to get to the bottom of this soon. I'm scared of him not wanting to eat. He did eat earlier tonight but he's the type who normally wants to eat all the time and now he sniffing food and isn't eating anything more. I start thinking the worst. I'm scared for us and scared for what tests the new vet will want to do, but we can't go on living like this.
 
Re: Concerned about Boomer : (

he is not in crisis right this minute right? i am thinking that rather than going to the ER maybe going to your regular vet that has his chart (medical history) and getting a referral to IM might be better plan? not trying to talk you out of ER if your gut is saying something is not right right now, than go for sure. but sounds like this has been going on for a few weeks and is the type of thing that needs thorough diagnostic work, ER can be tough place to get the focus he needs, they are hectic places. unless the place you are thinking about going to now is not just an ER, but specialty/critical care facility?
i would suggest getting an fPLI test redone when. chronic pancreatitis is, as the term implies, a chronic condition. can be years between a flare up but he must have had more than one episode of p-titis in his history to say that he has CP. with the off and on vomiting and appetite off that might be something (the fPLI test) that you would want done. also just a reminder, please make sure that he gets an x-ray done (followed by u/s if need be, which sounds like he does need). vomiting cats w/o known cause should always have an x-ray done first thing.
have you checked his BG lately? CP cats can come back from the falls, they should always be tested at least once a week while OTJ, more if they seem off and appetite is down.
good luck, i hope it is something non-serious, he is such a young cat.
~jojo
 
Re: Concerned about Boomer : (

Hi Jojo and Stephanie-

Thank you for the advice. My vet doesn't have the capacity to do an ultrasound - she sends the cats over to another vet nearby. That may be a possibility, but I could get it all done at the vet hospital - however it would be MUCH more expensive.

I could have her (instead of the referral hospital) do the fpli but doesn't that take at least a week to get results? Maybe it IS his cp acting up. Last we checked it wasn't an issue, but maybe it's come back. Like you said it's called chronic for a reason.

It's 4 am here and I'm up. He's now sicker. He's thrown up a few times and won't eat. He drank a little from the juice in the food but that's it. I was going to wait until my vet opened to get his records and get a referral and then go to the vet hospital. If I go in early without vet records it may not be helpful, you know?

My own vet didn't have any ideas of what to do to help him except the same pill twice a day. If he gets a shot of Dex he'll probably get his high BG's back. But I need to stop the vomiting. The reason I feel like I need someone else's help is that I've lost trust in my vet - I need to talk to someone who knows what the hell they're doing!!!

Boomer is acting okay despite the fact that he's obviouly not feeling well. He was purring earlier and being affectionate. I feel horrible that this is happening.
ETA- his last BG was 71 last night.
 
Re: Concerned about Boomer : (

Well, I found a food (miracle) that he'd eat a little bit of - flaked tuna. Shcokingly he's not acting too bad given the fact that he's obviously sick.

I'm kind of confused about what to do. The Internal Med vet I want to go to works at the referral hospital, but since he's this sick I don't know if I'll be able to get an appointment with her on such short notice. Maybe I should call and ask; but I don't have my vet's referral yet. My vet opens in 3 hours. I guess I'll go btb and call them at 8. :YMSIGH:
 
Re: Concerned about Boomer : (

at this point in time , it sure sounds like a flair. here isjojo's post from old board http://www.felinediabetes.com/phorum5/read.php?8,876722,876722 regarding p'titis and definitely get an FPlI. regardless when results come back, at least it will be documented and your fears if/when it happens again would not be so pronounced thinking the worst.. then RX accordingly. have to get them to eat though. syringe feed if must
 
Re: Concerned about Boomer : (

awww poor boomer, poor you traci! I can only imagine how worried you are. I don't have any advice on what it could be, or where you should go, but I do want you to know your both in our thoughts.
 
Re: Concerned about Boomer : (

I'm sorry to hear this Traci. I think he needs to see your vet to get some injections for nausea and pain, and maybe some fluids if he is dehydrated. Maybe they can send you home with an appetite stimulant. I think the IM referral and the ultrasound are a good idea. Sending healing vines to Boomer.
 
Re: Concerned about Boomer : (

I have no advice, but wanted to say I'm sorry to hear Boomer isn't doing well. Lots of hugs to you!

Also, if you're going the route of syringe feeding, baby food works great. We had to do that with Potter (GA) while trying to battle fatty liver years ago. The baby food is smooth enough to put through a syringe. You can mix it with some tuna water for better flavor (and the extra fluid would be good for him too). We just used a children's medicine syringe and it worked alright.

Good luck, and keep us posted!
 
Re: Concerned about Boomer : (

Traci, I'm sorry. With Tucker, he does better on prednisone these days for his IBD/pancreatitis, but you know he's had other issues too that you've helped with. The pred also helps his appetite.
 
Re: Concerned about Boomer : (

Hi Everyone-
Thanks for your care and concern. Boomer is at my vet right now. I was not able to get an apt. with an internal med person; my only option was emergency and that costs a fortune and the ER vets are robotic. My vet is doing a CBC & T4, an ultrasound, chest xray and urine. First blood and urine. Maybe he'll have something "easy" like a urinary tract infection. If not he'll go for the tests. They use another vet in the same town who has the equipment.

She says he doesn't seem to be in pain, but more bloated and gassy. This fits. He's my first cat who passes gas. He's always been gassy.

This morning he seemed to feel better. He was chirping and ate a bit, but not much. This vet is different from my "regular" vet who wasn't working, but I think she's smart. She told me there is a shot she could give him that would stop his vomiting called syranna or something like that and that it wouldn't affect his bg.

We've been through all of this before...all the same tests and after the tests the vet didn't have an answer-there wasn't anything to make him better really. Prednisone then budesonide. The animal communicator did say that the sickness he has now is different than before, so maybe it's something new. At the end of the day it's gonna cost about $850 which is probably half or a third of what it would be at the ER, so maybe it worked out that I couldn't get him in. I'll be calling them in a few hours for a report and I'll repost.
 
Re: Concerned about Boomer-at vet for testing

It sounds like you have a good plan. To test for a UTI, the urine should be sent out for culture and sensitivity, so the results wouldn't be back for a few days. The shot for vomiting sounds like Cerenia, which is a very effective drug.
 
Re: Concerned about Boomer-at vet for testing

I think I would get and FPLI anyway, just to R?O p titis. can't hurt. in for a penny in for a pound kind of thing
 
Re: Concerned about Boomer-at vet for testing

Glad you got him in quickly, and that he ate some for your earlier. Wonder if he would eat baby food directly?
 
Re: Concerned about Boomer-at vet for testing

Thinking of you and Boomer and sending prayers and good thoughts that they find what is causing all this, that it is fixable and Boomer is home and running around and eating in no time. I didn't realize Boomer is so young. Hope was dx'd at 3 so there are young kitties out there.
 
Re: Concerned about Boomer-at vet for testing

Hi again Ladies-

Nothing from the vet yet, but I guess that's to be expected. It's still early.
I'll get the Fpli if they think I should. I DID ask about it today.
I didn't realize the urine would need to be sent out. Okay.
Yes! Cerenia is the shot she (vet #2) mentioned. I said that I couldn't believe my other vet (vet #1) didn't offer this on Monday! I think she (vet #2) tried to cover for her (vet #1) by saying they may not have had it in stock. BS.

This is what I mean about Vet #1. If she had been thinking, she could have given him the cerenia so he wouldn't have lost more weight.

With all these tests, they should be able to find lymphoma if he has it, right?
 
Re: Concerned about Boomer-at vet for testing

Best to your Boomer. My Joey goes to the vet in a couple of hours and I'm as worried as you are.

Let's hope both of our fluffy ones fare better later on today.
 
Re: Concerned about Boomer-at vet for testing

Unless there is some big obvious mass, I don't think they can diagnose lymphoma by ultrasound. It can show inflammation, or show the thickening of the walls, or inflammation of the surrounding organs like stomach and pancreas. They would need to do a biopsy to definitively diagnose it. They can biopsy the colon by endoscopy (less invasive) or by opening up the abdomen (more conclusive, but much more invasive). Bear had the endoscopy. I think Logan had the full surgery.

The fPL should come back in a couple of days, I think.
 
Re: Concerned about Boomer-at vet for testing

I just called and he's done with the ultrasound and x-ray but his report hasn't been sent over from the vet who did the tests, so I don't have any info.

Before I left the vet I told one of the techs that the only food he can have is wet food with no gravy. When I just called I asked if he had eaten and the answer was "he's eaten a little dry" and I got mad and reiterated what I had said about food. :-x The receptionist said she'd tell them again.
Can you believe that???
It's because they don't stop feeding dry to diabetics and it's not on their radar.
I'll go get him once they have the report and all the info together.
I've not taken a shower today and I have slept a lot. I feel terrible now after talking to her. They can't even do the food right! Poor Boomer must feel like crap from not eating much at all today. :cry:
 
Re: Concerned about Boomer-at vet for testing

I'm sorry traci. I know dry food isn't what we want to feed our diabetics, but if he will eat it, then he needs to eat it. You don't want boomer going to long without eating. That isn't good for him either.

I hope these tests come back and tell you guys what is going on with this poor kitty. Your such a good momma to take care of boomer.
 
Re: Concerned about Boomer-at vet for testing

((((((Traci))))))~~~~~~ You and Boomer are in my prayers. I hope they are able to get to the bottom of things and that it is nothing bad. Hugs!!!!
 
Re: Concerned about Boomer-at vet - still waiting for results

Thanks Devon & Paige, I'm still sitting here sweating it out.

You're right Devon, he does need to eat! I hope after they changed his food that he did eat more.

I'm trying not to stress out about how I'm going to manage this while I'm working. nailbite_smile

Just being in the house without him here is weird!!! I vacumed while he's gone because it scares him.
 
Re: Concerned about Boomer-at vet for testing

:YMHUG: B :YMHUG: O :YMHUG: O :YMHUG: M :YMHUG: E :YMHUG: R

(((Traci))) there is nothing I can say to make you feel Ok.. bless both your hearts, prayers above equal blessings down, I sincerely believe Boom Boom will be Ok.. he is young & you are very in tune to him. Stay strong & positive.. & seek support here as much as you need to get thru! xoxoxo
 
Re: Concerned about Boomer-at vet for testing

I just talked to the vet. His bloodwork is fine- there is nothing abnormal or elevated.
They were not able to see his pancreas during either test. This sometimes happens.His intestines are thickened, as suspected. The urine was done in house - and I think it was normal too. They found a ton of food in his stomach, yet he's not eaten in a while and has vomited a ton. This has happened to him before. She thinks he may have a stomach motility issue. They are keeping him overnight to see if his stomach empties. He'll have a second x-ray tomorrow. They are going to compare his last ultrasound and x-ray from '07 to this one to compare. I'll pick him up tomorrow after work. She thinks giving him Reglan a few times a day may help his motility. She said the thickened intestines may be because of the stomach. We're going step by step.
She said he was happy and not hiding and that he had a good appetite. She said he gobbled up the dry food. She suggested that I be less concerned about his food being low carb now because he's got bigger issues and he needs to eat. Yes, he does. She thinks he needs a hypoallergenic diet - not exactly sure what that is, but it sounds similar to what I've been trying to accomplish. She says food trials need to be 8-12 weeks. Hah! Not if they won't eat the food. She mentioned 2 foods that I need to look up: Royal Canin HP23 and Hill's ZD. Both of these are "hypoallergenic". Anyone ever heard of either?
I'm going to gather all my questions: what about the Fpli test? What about the pancreatitis? Any other questions that you can think of that I should add to my list for tomorrow?
 
Re: Concerned about Boomer-test results

Oh, poor guy. I hope he has a quiet night. If you are going to get the fPLI test, it is preferable that he be fasted for 6 - 8 hours.
 
Re: Concerned about Boomer-test results

I just looked up the food the vet suggested and one is DRY food and the other is 34 carbs. That's just great, huh? I looked up what hypoallergenic food is and it's a novel protien and a novel carb - something the cat's never had before. My thing is that he won't eat these foods reliably. He'll eat them once but that's it. But, maybe if he's feeling better he will? I don't know how on earth I'll be able to feed my cat dry food or 34 carb food!!! The vet thinks that he won't become diabetic again because he's off pred now. I did the whole diabetes thing myself - I didn't use the vet, so this is all shocking to me. I guess I can get another opinion once I get all the bloodwork and test results.

Hi BG at the vet was 130, btw. He was 71 last night at PMPS.

It's such an overwhelming task before me. I don't agree with her but at the same time, she's the "expert", right? It's hard to debate with a vet. I know that dry food is bad for cats but I don't feel comfortable DEBATING it with her. Same with low carb food. Ya know? I don't want to have to "teach" a vet something. He needs to eat. Maybe I'll buy the ground carcasses of "novel" animals and par-boil them and add supplements. He eats boiled turkey that's not fully cooked. Maybe he'll do that with another food? Can you tell I'm already losing it?
 
Re: Concerned about Boomer-test results

Traci...I am so sorry about Boomer. I remember you from when I used to post here (I've been gone for a bit)....& you were always so helpful. I wish I could help you. I'm facing a lot with my Jake in the near future.....it's all very daunting & I don't even know if it will help him. Please accept my hugs & prayers for both you & Boomer....
 
Re: Concerned about Boomer-test results

Wouls Natura Evo 95% Venison or 95% Duck work? Those are novel protein sources, and grain free, low carb.
 
Re: Concerned about Boomer-test results

Hi Michelle-thanks for that. It's so weird being home without him. I keep looking for him not thinking.

Linda-I would think that Evo 95% foods would be in the groups she's talking about. I am willing to try all of those before prescription and dry foods. I wouldn't mind cooking for him either. The two types of food she mentioned call themselves "hypoallergenic" but I'm betting that many other foods could fit into that category too. She described hypoallergenic (if I remember right) as being one novel protein and one novel carb. If this is the guideline I'm sure I could find plenty of foods that would fit into that category and be low carb.

I hope I can sleep tonight. I've got so much going on in my head.
 
Re: Concerned about Boomer-home from vet but still struggling

I am very lucky to have a nice boss. I called out again today - that's two days this week because of my cat. Boomer stayed overnight at the vets for testing and I picked him up last night. He looked good. He had eaten for them and not vimited in 24 hours. She thinks all his problems stem from a food allergy.

After I got him home he was being picky eating, but he did eat a little. Then he started to not feel well and it continued all night. By the morning he was a lump. Lethargic, not making any noise (not him) and not eating. I was still planning to go to work so I tried force-feeding him. 20 minutes later he threw it all up and more.

I went out to get him grain-free cat foods that I know he'll eat. (They sent me home with Z/D hypoallergenic food that of course he wouldn't eat.) He's started eating again and looks better. Thank GOD. I thought he was on his death bed. I'm giving him reglan for vomiting and stomach motility issues and budesonide for IBD. He's got an appointment tonight at 5:00 with an internal medicine doctor at a referral hospital. I'm sure they will want him to have biopsies of his stomach and intestines. This stint at the vet just cost me one grand. Biopsies at the "cheap" place will be $1200. And once that's done - they still don't have anything to "cure" him.

Lisa from Lantus mentioned there are allergy tests out there. Has anyone ever heard of this or ever had one?
 
Re: Concerned about Boomer-home from vet but still struggling

Tucker has allergy tests, biopsies of almost all the internal organs, he's had just about everything under the sun since he adopted me in '05.

The allergy tests are the common airborne things, Tucker's allergic to mold, dust, ragweed, that kind of stuff. It does not test for food allergies.

Novel proteins would be a food with duck or venison only, just one simple protein.

Although Tucker has food allergies, it's just gluten he's allergic to and that was through trial and error that I learned that. Actually after a phone consult with Dr. Lisa.

We are now using Prednisone for his brain thing and IBD, it's helping him put on weight that he lost. The budesonide didn't really work for him.

Since I'm potassium oriented lately, are you getting his electrolytes checked while you're at it?
 
Re: Concerned about Boomer-home from vet but still struggling

tuckers mom said:
Tucker has allergy tests, biopsies of almost all the internal organs, he's had just about everything under the sun since he adopted me in '05.

Oh, I thought there may be food allergy tests. Did having the biopsies of internal organs help anything? I mean I could have this done and still get nowhere it seems.

Although Tucker has food allergies, it's just gluten he's allergic to and that was through trial and error that I learned that. Actually after a phone consult with Dr. Lisa.

How did talking on the phone with her help you figure out what he's allergic to? So can he eat any food as long as there is no gluten in it?

We are now using Prednisone for his brain thing and IBD, it's helping him put on weight that he lost. The budesonide didn't really work for him.

Yes, Boomer was on pred too & that's what gave him diabetes. So even though you know what Tucker's allergic to, he still has to take meds? I thought once you knew then you could take the cat off the meds, no? Bude has worked for him until 3 weeks ago.

Since I'm potassium oriented lately, are you getting his electrolytes checked while you're at it?
Click to expand...
I don't know if I've had electrolytes checked. How do they test for that?
 
Re: Concerned about Boomer-home from vet but still struggling

It's a blood test. We get Tucker's potassium checked every few weeks now, the clinic runs it so we get the results in about 20 minutes.
 
Re: Concerned about Boomer-at vet - still waiting for results

Update:
I liked the IM doc. She was young, confident, smart, funny and straight to the point. She said we really don't know what's wrong with him because he's never had his small intestine biopsied. The two outcomes are inflamation or lymphoma. She will better be able to help us if she knows exactly what he has instead guessing. I'm dropping him off tomorrow morning and picking up tomorrow night. I'll have the results Monday. SHe's also doing a TLI, Cobalmin and Folate test since it was very low on the last test a few years ago, she wants to see where it's at now. Apparently this test will also let us know if there is a bacterial overgrowth that needs to be treated.

I asked about lymphoma and she said cats with that have 6-8 months. I was shocked.

I couldn't believe how quick this all happened. I decided right there that this had to be done and Dave agreed. He met me there. So no eating after midnight. He's eaten decently today which is good. He's so tiny though. He's now below 8 pounds. I'm jealous of everyone who thinks they have a problem because their cat is overweight.
 
((((((Traci Traci Traci))))))) You and Boomer are in my thoughts and prayers today. Will he be able to come home tonight? I wonder how they get the biopsy? Is it endoscopically or do they have to open him up?

As far as the lymphoma ~~ From Laura and Quincy's profile in LL he was dx with small cell GI lymphoma (diagnosed 4/08 via biopsy) and they are treating it with Leukeran (I think). So I am not sure that they all don't make it. :?
 
traci, i read the thread on lantus and here and not sure where the most updated info is.
my advice would have been not to do the surgery because even with surgery/biopsy lymphoma isn't always definitively diagnosed. people often treat without that definitive diagnosis. the only reason we caught cleo's lymphoma is that we removed the spleen coz it was so huge and ineffective that it was damaging her liver. the positive nodes we found were in an awkward area of the mesentery that wouldn't have been found otherwise. and even with spleen removed and liver biopsied we didn't get any definitive lymphoma diagnosis there, just on the mesentery.

but what jess says weighs heavily on my mind. what if you did get a definitive result and it turned out to be something the vets didn't expect? that would totally change treatment.

my thinking would be that his survival and quality of life would be most important. if he can handle the surgery and otherwise has a good shot it's worth the try. better to try than not try and have only questions.
unless we're talking large-cell lymphoma or lymphoma that has already spread everywhere badly many cats live a long time with lymphoma and eventually die of other things even tho lymphoma is not curable. cleo has it and she's over 17 now, and hers turned out to be very slow growing even tho it's considered multicentric (in multiple areas, not just the GI area). so i wouldn't let that 6 months statement throw you for a loop. if you asked here on community or health you'd find a lot of FDMBers with lymphoma kitties still going strong.

jeez, re the food allergy thing, did they try restricting him to just a cooked chicken breast diet? that's what many vets do, to see if that resolves the cat's issues, then slowly add things back to see if anything causes a bad reaction again. it's simple and doesn't cost anything.

and IDEXX has an fpli test that takes only 24 hours for results. cleo never tested positive for pancreatitis that way -- hers was found via ultrasound. other cats can be negative via ultrasound and positive via fPLI so it really depends on the kitty.


just wanting you to know that we're all here for you, and hoping boomer is back to his old self and fully recovered and eating soon.
 
Wow -another amazing point of view. I'm continually stunned at what I get on FDMB. These experiences are very helpful. I'm so glad to hear that lymphoma isn't a death sentence.

Like I said on the Lantus thread, had I been offered laproscopic surgery I would have done it. I wasn't - she said it would be a 10 day recovery with a few days in the hospital. I didn't want to do that. At all.

I've never heard anyone suggest an all-chicken diet before - that's news to me. I'd like to try that with supplements added from Instinct, but I've not gotten any nutrition help from the vets except to offer me the $3 a can cat food that he didn't eat. :lol:

I am so happy cleo is 17 - that's incredible. Send me some of whatever you're doing- I need it!
 
the specialty vet practice cleo goes to doesn't offer laparoscopic surgery either. her spleen was like the size of a cheese board vs that of a tiny eyeglass case and having it removed and the biopsies done i thought she'd be in rough shape for a really long time. they told me a few days or at least an overnight in the hospital afterward so i was surprised when they called and said i could take her home about 3 hours after surgery (it's worth it to ask about that, because it could save half the cost of the procedure). cleo didn't even need much bupe afterward. it just amazed me! i did keep her confined to a guest bedroom for a few weeks but she never went after her stitches or anything. i mainly kept her confined so she wouldn't try to go up and down the stairs and to keep my youngest cat from jumping her. i was totally blown away at how fast kitties recover. she handled this even better than she did her spay job as a kitten. back then she was weaving drunkenly for hours and out of it all night. except for the first night and part of the next day, i never saw cleo even act like she was in pain. she ate and drank and acted totally normally.

cleo's on ceenu (chemo) and prednisolone and so far her monthly tests and regular ultrasounds have looked great. many lymphoma kitties are on leukeran and prednisolone instead but cleo couldn't tolerate the leukeran. when she was first diagnosed with lymphoma i went straight to the people here on the board in the same situation and was so relieved to hear how many kitties were in remission for a long time. so definitely the battle is just beginning and is not over by a long shot. (large cell lymphoma is a different story and often deadly, but i think most of the lymphoma kitties here have small cell GI lymphoma. cleo has multicentric lymphoma, tho.)


yes, my vet had me try the all chicken breast diet for my IBD/allergy kitty for a week (some do thighs/legs coz they're cheaper but i decided to spoil him). of course we want the normal supplements/nutrients for a cat, but it didn't hurt to try the chicken thing for a week to 10 days without supplementation to see if he improved. i just boiled it in hot water til it was only barely pink, then chopped it up with a little of that water to make it mushy. my cat won't eat raw, but some transition straight to raw easily and do much much better on a raw diet. but the chicken diet really helped show me how much my cat was affected by his canned food.

dr lisa and others have very good raw food diets for kitties and she'd even do a telephone consult for you if you were willing to pay (http://catinfo.org). that way she could devise a diet specifically for your cat. i didn't do that -- we changed to a cooked diet from an internal medicine specialty vet -- but the basic point is to go to a simple chicken diet to see whether things get better and to see whether it really could be an allergy to something in canned food.
 
Thank you for all that information. It's great that she recovered so quickly from the surgery.
It's incredible that you took her home 3 hours later. Wow.

I've got a lot to think about regarding food. I'm a bit overwhelmed at the moment - but I know there are a lot of choices. Right now my new vet has told me to concentrate on him eating whatever he wants. Tonight he's home and he's eaten GREAT. I'm so happy to see that. What a relief!
 
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