Bob - AMPS ~ 392

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Carl & Polly & Bob (GA)

Not a good day for us. Bob scared me this morning. Found him laying in the kitchen next to his water bowl showing little signs of life. At 5am he got 100 ml of fluids, but would not eat. And I had no choice but to go out the door to work at 5:30. All day long I worried about DKA or fatty liver. Checked on him three times during my shift, but no big improvement.

Went to town, bought some a/d to syringe feed him. Vet also gave me a shot of cerenia for him which he got as soon as I got home. Then I paced until the UPS guy came at three with his insulin.

Bought some ketone sticks and pediatric suppositories to use for his constipation.

At 4:00 I tested him - 413. And gave him 2u. He'll get fed at 6, tested then and at +4. If I don't see a drop, I won't wait twelve hours for his next shot. I'm scared. Trace ketones on the pee stick. He'll also get more fluids tonight and syringe fed until I can get at least a half can into him.

Gonna be a long night, but I am off work until Sunday noon.

PMPS ~ 413
+2. Fed 18 cc a/d and water
+3 ~ 474. .2 bupe
+4. Fed 9cc of yummy too. Bob didn't enjoy it all that much.
+5 ~ 375.
+6 ~ 100 ml sub-q fluids. 9cc of yumms.
 
Re: Bob - PMPS ~ 413 First shot

Carl - I'm so sorry to hear about Bob's bad day. Praying you see some improvement soon for both your sakes. I know you're scared, he's your buddy and you love him. We get it, you know we do; we're with you. You have been such a comfort and a good friend to so many of us. It's painful to watch from the sidelines, but know I'm praying for you and Bob. I look forward to hearing his appy perks up and he takes to the insulin quickly.

Glad you're off until Sunday. Do keep us posted.

Prayers and Hugs -

Libby (& Hershey, too!)
 
Re: Bob - PMPS ~ 413 First shot

Carl, I'm so sorry to hear this. You and Bob will be in my thoughts. Sending healing vines to you.
 
Re: Bob - PMPS ~ 413 First shot

((((Carl)))) hang in there, you can do this.

I tend to fall back on my Siamese Rescue foster training for medical help (if there's anyone who can help a very sick kitty pull through, it's a foster). Here are a couple of ideas for a "slurry" that can add some additional nutrition/calories to the A/D. I'm sure most of us don't have all this stuff on hand, but maybe you have something on hand that can help boost the food.

There are several formulas that different people like but all begin with either A/D or Eukanuba Max Calorie as a base. Below are two examples of favorite slurry formulas.

A.1 can A/D or Max Cal food
1 generous squirt of Nutri-Cal
1 spoon of Karo syrup
Rebound – stir in enough to make this a slurry that will go through a syringe

B.1 can A/D or Max Cal food
1 generous squirt of Nutri-CaL
½ Jar turkey baby food
Pedialite - stir in enough to make this a slurry that will go through a syringe.
Click to expand...

How much should I force feed a cat that is not eating?
This is hard especially not knowing what the cat’s normal appetite was.

Mix up the A/D slurry enough for what you would think is the daily intake for that size cat (approximately one can per adult cat; this mixture might last two days). See if you can get a min of ½ can to as much as 1 can of the A/D mixture into the cat in a 24 hour period. There is a fine line in getting enough in and too much – If the cat vomits then you have defeated the whole purpose so watch to see what the cats reaction is and STOP if he looks like he may vomit and try again in 1 hour. It is better to give many small feedings than one or two large feedings.
Click to expand...
 
Re: Bob - PMPS ~ 413 First shot

Thank you Libby.
I have Nutri-cal on hand. And baby food turkey.
No karo , rebound, or pedialyte though.

Is 10-12 cc a sufficient amount per feeding? That's the size of my syringe.
 
Re: Bob - PMPS ~ 413 First shot +3 ~ 474

Carl I'm sorry it's been a bad day. Sending prayers for you and Bob.
 
Re: Bob - PMPS ~ 413 First shot

it has been so long since I have syringe fed (I'm not one of those superhero fosters! I usually get the cats that are already healthy). I seem to remember Lucy's vet wanting me to feed more than that, but 10 mL is about all she would tolerate at a time. I think feeding less at a time but doing it more often is probably the way to go. If you give him one syringe and he's still accepting it pretty well, try another. If he fights too much, stop and try again later. I would probably try to not go more than 2 hours between feedings, at least for tonight.
 
Re: Bob - PMPS ~ 413 First shot +3 ~ 474

Bless you Liz.

Libby,
He wasn't cooperative when I fed him at +2. I'll try 10cc at +4.
 
Re: Bob - PMPS ~ 413 First shot +3 ~ 474

almost forgot my super-secret syringe feeding trick. When you're feeding, keep a warm/damp washcloth within reach. After every couple of squirts, stop and "wash" his face. Cats hate to feel messy, plus it supposedly reminds them a little bit of being cleaned by mom. One of my friends suggested that, and amazingly it really helped with Lucy. She started to do a lot better with her feedings.
 
Re: Bob - PMPS ~ 413 First shot +3 ~ 474

Thanks, I knew that trick. :-D Ever syringe fed a 'possum? Talk about sloppy eaters...
 
Re: Bob - PMPS ~ 413 First shot +3 ~ 474

Carl, so sorry to hear how sick Bob's been lately. You were a real comfort when I lost Maggie. Saying many prayers for Bob and you. You're getting lots of good advice. Hope he improves with all the tlc and care he's getting tonight.
 
Re: Bob - PMPS ~ 413 First shot +3 ~ 474

((((Carl))))

Also, you can always pick up some R if you think it will help. Bob being in high numbers is probably making him feel lousy, too.
 
Re: Bob - PMPS ~ 413 First shot +3 ~ 474

Oh Carl. I am so sorry to hear Bob is feeling so horrible. Unfortunately most cats do not take well to syringe feeding. But as you know, they will starve themselves so we gotta get that food in there. Syringe feeding sick cats en masse was my life for many years and although there is no perfect easy way to make them eat, there is a couple things you can do to not turn them off even more or end up having them vomit it all back out. There was no quick way to get all those calories in. It generally required several feeding in small amounts. Almost like hand raising a kitten. My preference was to introduce the syringed food into the corner of their mouth and slowly dribble it in to engage them to swallow. If you can get 10cc's at a time and frequently, you're on the winning path. Water the food down a bit for ease of administration. And if u don't already have them, get the catheter tip syringes. I have only ever seen these in 60cc. They are a bit clumsier but the food gets in the mouth easier. Keep a warmed plate of some food beside him while feeding as he may decide to give it a go himself.
You are an amazing Dad to Bob and he will know you are helping him! Hugs to you and prayers and vines to Bob :YMHUG: :YMHUG:
 
Re: Bob - PMPS ~ 413 First shot +3 ~ 474

(((((Carl))))), Prayers and positive thoughts for Bob tonight. I hope he'll be feeling better once he has some insulin.

Thinking of you,

Ella & Rusty
 
Re: Bob - PMPS ~ 413 First shot +3 ~ 474

Than you all. I'm breathing. :YMHUG:

And Kim, thanks for reminding me... I have a couple of catac nipples from syringing squirrels in my cabinet. That'll make it easier to get the food in.
 
Re: Bob - PMPS ~ 413 First shot +3 ~ 474

Hi Carl. I am keeping you and Bob in my thoughts and prayers. I know you can do this.
Sending feel much better soon vines to Bob and calming vines to you.
 
Re: Bob - PMPS ~ 413 First shot +3 ~ 474

So sorry about all this Carl. He's in wonderful hands. Hopefully he will feel less crappy soon...and you too.

Continued heaps of vines..hang in there.


:YMHUG:
 
Re: Bob - PMPS ~ 413 First shot +3 ~ 474, +5~375

At least it's a little lower. I'm guessing a/d and Nutri-Cal paste is pretty high in carbs?
 
Re: Bob - PMPS ~ 413 First shot +3 ~ 474, +5~375

a/d is 12% carb on Dr. Lisa's list. Nutrical starts with corn syrup, so lots of carbs.
 
Re: Bob - PMPS ~ 413 First shot +3 ~ 474, +5~375

(((carl)))

i'm impressed though - if you have experience feeding possums and squirrels, you'll do fine with Bob. Cheering both of you on. :YMHUG:
 
Re: Bob - PMPS ~ 413 First shot +3 ~ 474, +5~375

one has to remember...
with ketones the BG number doesn't matter, the amount of insulin getting into the cat does. so if you have to feed high carb foods to offset the amount of insulin, so be it.

ketones and BG numbers don't have any connection. a cat can throw ketones at 120 or 520. the only reason ketones and BG numbers seem to have a connection is a BG of 520 sends up a huge red flag that kitty's not getting enough insulin while a BG of 120 does not. a diabetic cat can be in full blown DKA and have a BG of 120 from not eating, vomiting, and being septic. most won't, but it *can* happen.


another syringe feeding tip to share: i've used kitchen towels to pin around kitty's neck to help keep the food from running down their front. since grandchildren came into the family i've been using baby bibs.


about how much duration does bob get from pzi? that's a 'round about way of asking you about how soon do you think you can safely shoot again?


:YMHUG: :YMHUG: :YMHUG:
 
Re: Bob - PMPS ~ 413 First shot +3 ~ 474, +5~375

Jill,
Last time he got about ten hours with IM shots. My plan is to shoot IM at +8, and set the alarm for 4 hours later. I've been up since 4:30 this morning and I can't pull an all-nighter, then safely drive him to the vet by the time they open. I'm going to have to fight to last two more hours...
 
Re: Bob - PMPS ~ 413 First shot +3 ~ 474, +5~375

i knew you'd have a good plan in place!
let us know how/if we can help. you know we're all pulling for bob!
 
Re: Bob - PMPS ~ 413 First shot +3 ~ 474, +5~375

((((Carl))))
So very sorry to hear about Bob :sad:
Sending lots and lots healing vines to Bob and some :YMHUG: :YMHUG: to you ♥
 
Re: Bob - PMPS ~ 413 First shot +3 ~ 474, +5~375

Bob's not a big fan of the secret recipe. ;-)
But I got 9 cc in him along with the squids.
 
Re: Bob - PMPS ~ 413 First shot +3 ~ 474, +5~375

Carl,

I am so sorry you and Bob are going through this.

Sending prayers and mega vines for Bob; strength vines for you~
 
Re: Bob - PMPS ~ 413 First shot +3 ~ 474, +5~375

((((Carl))))

You are doing great! The only tip I can add is that if you are out tomorrow anywhere near a Walmart, you might want to grab a Magic Bullet. I bought this exclusively for the cats to blend food for syringe feeding and it has been a godsend. You can get the food the perfect consistency for syringe feeding.

Like Jill, I also use towels around the neck as bibs, and like Libby, keep a warm cloth handy.

Wish some of us were near you to help out but sending many prayers your way.
 
Re: Bob - PMPS ~ 413 First shot +3 ~ 474, +5~375

God bless each and every one of you.

+7.5. ~ 491 :sad:
Fed him but only took 5cc.
Shot 1u, pzi, IM.
We both need a nap. We're camping out on the LR floor. I'm worried Bob will fall off the bed like he fell off the couch earlier. Now all he can fall off of is a twin mattress.

Thank you all,
Carl and Bob
 
Re: Bob - PMPS ~ 413 First shot +3 ~ 474, +5~375

before you give another shot, please double check your +hours.

i think your
+11.5. ~ 491
Shot 1u, pzi, IM

should read
+7.5 ~ 491 (11:30 ET)
Shot 1u, pzi, IM

hope you can get some sleep...
ni-ni!
 
Re: Bob - PMPS ~ 413 First shot +3 ~ 474, +5~375

((((Carl)))) I'm sitting here cheering you and BOB on!!!!

:RAHCAT :RAHCAT :RAHCAT :RAHCAT :RAHCAT

Sending mega healing vines for Bob and comfort vines for you. You got this! Hope the nap revitalizes both of you. :YMHUG:
 
Re: Bob - PMPS ~ 413 First shot +3 ~ 474, +5~375

I hope things are better when you wake up. I think your plan sounds like a good one. Get some rest.
 
Re: Bob - PMPS ~ 413 First shot +3 ~ 474, +5~375

Hi Carl,

I am so sorry to hear about Bob's day. I am praying for Bob's quick recovery. He is in good hands.
 
Re: Bob - PMPS ~ 413 First shot +3 ~ 474, +5~375

MPS ~ 491 Fed him but only took 5cc.
Shot 1u, pzi, IM.

Not quite sure what you call the cycles when you shoot TID...

AMPS ~ 392
1u. IM
Time to feed the gruel, then squids.

At some point this morning, Bob is going to the vet.
 
Carl, just saw your post from yesterday. I so hope this morning finds Bob feeling lots better !!! Thoughts and prayers coming your way now for Bob. With all the advice you are getting from LL it sounds like you and Bob are in good hands.
 
Re: Bob - PMPS ~ 413 First shot +3 ~ 474, +5~375

Carl & Bob said:
MPS ~ 491 Fed him but only took 5cc.
Shot 1u, pzi, IM.

Not quite sure what you call the cycles when you shoot TID...

AMPS ~ 392
1u. IM
Time to feed the gruel, then squids.

At some point this morning, Bob is going to the vet.
Click to expand...

good morning! i hope both of you were able to get some rest.

in order to keep things straight when shooting TID you might want to use a separate line for each shot like Michelle did on Doodles' spreadsheet. another method is to divide the ss up into 3 sections with 8 hour cycles. however, michelle's method gives you more leeway if shots end up being more than 8 hours apart.

iirc, when michelle posted doodles' numbers everyday she simply called them shot 1, 2, & 3.

don't fret about it now. you have your hands full. i'm sure we can get someone to modify your spreadsheet for you. i'd do it, but i'm not particularly ss savvy.

how is bob acting this morning?

sending healing vines and positive thoughts...
 
Carl

I know you are probably able to do it but if you don't have time, I could fix the SS so it's divided into three shot times on one line. I'm working today but PM me if I can help. I could do it tonight.
 
Come on Bobs - EAT!

Carl, another trick I used when having to syringe feed KT - learned it from Tashie's Bernadette. 4 paper towels folded into 2 - split the middle perforation a bit to slip over his head. It gives you a tear-away bib after you're finished. I use the half sheet towels - they worked wonderfully. I second Marje's Magic Bullet - mine is a GE knockoff, about $20 at WallyWorld. Sometimes I would start syringe feeding - he would then become interested in eating and would finish more of the little bowl himself.

Lots of thoughts and prayers for both of you...
 
Good morning, Carl -

When we were shooting TID (5/2/12 - 6/13/12), I think I called them AMPS, MDPS, PMPS and did all three shots on the same line. Just seemed easier to me when referring back to it.

I hope y'all have a great day -

Libby (& Hershey, too!)
 
Just looking in on Bob from tbp. I hope he is feeling better today.
Sending good vet visit vines, and hope he feels better soon.
 
Carl, I'm so sorry to hear about bob. Sending all the healing vines growing around here and tons of hugs for you too.

Another thing to try is the "Liver Shake"
THE '~LIVER SHAKE~' FOR SICK CATS

This liquid food is appropriate for cats suffering from conditions where they are eating very little or not at all such as anemias, leukemias, deficiency states with symptoms of lethargy, listlessness, and weakness.

1 cup RAW LIVER (BEEF, or CHICKEN)
1 cup FRESH CARROT JUICE or V-8, or Tomatoe Juice
1/4 cup *FRESH FILTERED WATER
1 RAW EGG YOLK
1 tsp.KELP POWDER OR SPIRULINA


COMBINE AND MIX IN A BLENDER UNTIL LIQUEFIED. (Note: it will be frothy)

Dosage:

Administer 10cc daily 3-6 times a day. (6Occ per day max)

Some cats will need to be force-fed with a syringe, while others will drink it out of a bowl.

This food has a sweet and salty taste, and the energetic properties of tonifying (energy boosting), warming and stimulating and supports the kidneys, spleen, liver and stomach.

This drink is a complete dinner for a sick cat until they feel good enough to eat by themselves again.

*Substitute rice water if the cat has diarrhea. Rice water
is made by boiling white rice (2 Tbsp) with water (1cup) for 30 minutes.
This liquid aids digestion and assimilation and inhibits the symptoms of diarrhea.
Click to expand...
 
 

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(((Carl))) Piling on yet more healing vines from us. I'm rooting for a yellow number soon. Please eat Bob.

When I fostered and assist fed a hepatic lipidosis shelter kitty for a few weeks, I fed him Royal Canin Recovery. It's 7% carbs and I found it was a lot smoother and easier to feed than A/D. Just another option if you can't find a Magic Bullet or equivalent.
 
Re: Bob - AMPS~ 392 / +5~ 320/ MDPS 295!

Thank you all for the tips! And thank you for the reminder on the Liver Shake too. I've "steered" people to that recipe, but didn't have the sense to steer myself there. Is the kelp powder critical? It's the only thing I have no clue where to find it.

Wendy, is that RC food only available from a vet?

AMPS ~ 392
+5 ~ 320
MDPS (+8 from AMPS) ~ 295.

I have never been happier to see a yellow in my life.

Given how PZI works, he may have gone lower and this is a rising number. Either that or I shot a falling number. I don't care!

Gave 1.25u IM.

Now time to try to see if Cipro works. How long does it usually take to have an effect on the appy? And don't tell me "ECID"!!! Just give me a clue. :lol:
 
With J.D. it takes about 20 minutes for cypro to get him eating, so I would say anywhere from 15 minutes to a half hour.
 
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