Blue vs Green

Status
Not open for further replies.
The answer is not that simple. It depends what your goal is and how you plan to get there, are you trying for remission? Do you just want to keep numbers below the renal threshold? Are you following instructions from your vet and if so, what do they say about numbers below 100 and how to handle them?

It is true, that with the TR protocol, green is the goal. The goal is to have the cat spend the majority of their time in eugylcemic numbers (numbers of a non diabetic). I'm not familiar enough with SLGS, but reductions are taken with numbers below 90 (barely green) so I think the goal for that method may be slightly different.

That being said, both of them are built with guidelines on how to get to those numbers and what to do once you're there. They are built with safety measures unique to one or the other and won't necessarily work if you modify them, without those safety guidelines, you are playing with fire. This is why it is recommended not taking some bits from each and making up your own thing. If you remove the steps that are designed for safety, or pick and choose your own, you are asking for trouble.
 
Stacy & Asia said:
The answer is not that simple. It depends what your goal is and how you plan to get there, are you trying for remission? Do you just want to keep numbers below the renal threshold? Are you following instructions from your vet and if so, what do they say about numbers below 100 and how to handle them?

It is true, that with the TR protocol, green is the goal. The goal is to have the cat spend the majority of their time in eugylcemic numbers (numbers of a non diabetic). I'm not familiar enough with SLGS, but reductions are taken with numbers below 90 (barely green) so I think the goal for that method may be slightly different.

That being said, both of them are built with guidelines on how to get to those numbers and what to do once you're there. They are built with safety measures unique to one or the other and won't necessarily work if you modify them, without those safety guidelines, you are playing with fire. This is why it is recommended not taking some bits from each and making up your own thing. If you remove the steps that are designed for safety, or pick and choose your own, you are asking for trouble.
Click to expand...
I would have thought the eventual goal for both protocols is remission. That’s what I want and I know second remissions are hard but not impossible.
 
Juliet said:
I would have thought the eventual goal for both protocols is remission. That’s what I want and I know second remissions are hard but not impossible.
Click to expand...
Remission is possible with either. TR has the data behind it with the most impressive remission rates. However, I think some cats are going to go into remission (and low greens) no matter what the protocol or guidelines say, just because that is what they want to do.

I would say remission is the ultimate prize, but the goal of TR and SLGS is to regulate diabetes.
 
Stacy & Asia said:
Remission is possible with either. TR has the data behind it with the most impressive remission rates. However, I think some cats are going to go into remission (and low greens) no matter what the protocol or guidelines say, just because that is what they want to do.

I would say remission is the ultimate prize, but the goal of TR and SLGS is to regulate diabetes.
Click to expand...
I’m hopeful. Silver got remission within just ten days of following SLGS before. I’m keeping my fingers crossed it will happen again. Albeit taking longer.
 
I'm personally not even thinking that remission is an option for Quintus. But wow, if he did, that would be incredible!

The reason I'm pessimistic is firstly that I'm not sure he'll hang around long enough to get there. And the second reason is I fear his pancreas has too much damage.

But maybe I'm wrong!
 
It really depends on the situation, but most people start with remission being the goal but IMHO the real expectation should be getting kitties below the renal threshold and regulated. Some kitties get diet controlled very quickly, some need a little juice and within 6 months are in remission. Some don't ever hit remission but a regulated state. Then there is kitties like mine - they will never be in remission so the goal is to them as tightly controlled as we can.


SLGS goal is the same as the TR. The process to get there is just different. For example if you are feeding dry kibble, if you can't test as often, are not comfortable with pushing the numbers lower like in TR - then SLGS may be a better option for the human.


So, yeah blues! Hope your numbers become lower as we go and then we will be sitting in the greens! Greens are thought to be the healing numbers for the pancreas, the more time in the healing zone the more chance of remission or at least using less juice.
 
As much as it pains me to say this, I think Sandy/Black Kitty is the only active member that's been here longer than me with the exception of 2 moderators who haven't been around much lately. So here's some history...

This board pre-dates the publication of the Tight Regulation Protocol. I joined after TR was already in play. At least some iteration of SLGS was what was being practiced here prior to the advent of TR. Cats would go into remission using SLGS (or whatever it was called at the time). When TR was published, as I understand it, there were several people who wanted to give it a try given it's success on the German Lantus board and there were a lot of people who were convinced that the protocol was sufficiently aggressive and having cats in numbers in the 40s would be dangerous. That changed when people began to realize that many more cats were going into remission. At the time I joined, SLGS was used in those ISGs that used other types of insulin (e.g., Novolin/Humulin N) and TR was the mainstay for the Lantus ISG. If you used Lantus, you practiced TR. There was a group that cropped up several years after I joined that didn't want to do TR but wanted to use Lantus and created an ISG for "Relaxed Lantus." It was a mess. The people that petitioned for the group were never around to help deal with crises, their guidance was ill-informed, and it scared many of us to death. We would rescue people whose cats were in trouble and bring them back here where support was readily available. The moderators incorporated SLGS as an alternative for those Lantus and Lev users whose cats were kibble junkies or had limitations that precluded their following TR and the Relaxed Lantus board was disbanded. Most of the people who arrived here and who are now the more experienced board members cut our teeth on TR and understand it far better than SLGS.

 
Last edited:
Sienne and Gabby (GA) said:
As much as it pains me to say this, I think Sandy/Black Kitty is the only active member that's been here longer than me with the exception of 2 moderators who having been around much lately. So here's some history...

This board pre-dates the publication of the Tight Regulation Protocol. I joined after TR was already in play. At least some iteration of SLGS was what was being practiced here prior to the advent of TR. Cats would go into remission using SLGS (or whatever it was called at the time). When TR was published, as I understand it, there were several people who wanted to give it a try given it's success on the German Lantus board and there were a lot of people who were convinced that the protocol was sufficiently aggressive and having cats in numbers in the 40s would be dangerous. That changed when people began to realize that many more cats were going into remission. At the time I joined, SLGS was used in those ISGs that used other types of insulin (e.g., Novolin/Humulin N) and TR was the mainstay for the Lantus ISG. If you used Lantus, you practiced TR. There was a group that cropped up several years after I joined that didn't want to do TR but wanted to use Lantus and created an ISG for "Relaxed Lantus." It was a mess. The people that petitioned for the group were never around to help deal with crises, their guidance was ill-informed, and it scared many of us to death. We would rescue people whose cats were in trouble and bring them back here where support was readily available. The moderators incorporated SLGS as an alternative for those Lantus and Lev users whose cats were kibble junkies or had limitations that precluded their following TR and the Relaxed Lantus board was disbanded. Most of the people who arrived here and who are now the more experienced board members cut our teeth on TR and understand it far better than SLGS.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the history, Sienne. Fly your OG status proud, we are lucky to have you around! :bighug:

I knew there used to be 2 different groups and I was wondering how/why all that was. So SLGS was this board's version of a method like TR was developed over on the German board? It was a group collection of experiences and knowledge and was modified according to hits and misses and somehow arrived to what is now SLGS? Is it still a living thing that is being tweaked and modified? I think it's useful to have it because there are certain things in TR that would exclude many people from following it and I would think they would feel a lot of pressure to get with the program or get off the board. I for one, would feel much safer having my cat on SLGS than any instructions the vets I've looked in to recommend, so I'm sure having it around has saved some kitty lives, and that makes it a success.

p.s. I'm pouring over Gabby's SSs as Asia has some similar patterns. Thanks for keeping those available and your wonderfully detailed notes!
 
At least as I understand it, SLGS was developed and modified based on accumulated knowledge. There were two people Jojo and Jill who were active when I joined. Jojo was a very skilled vet tech and Jill learned quickly. They were the mainstays of guiding members. Jojo began having problems with chronic pain and disappeared from the board. Jill is a moderator but I don't think she's posted in quite some time. Between them, they developed a relationship with Kirsten Roomp from the German board and brought TR here.

@Tracey&Jones - I don't know if I've ever seen anything in the scientific literature that specifically states that having a kitty in green numbers helps to heal the pancreas. What I suspect is that it developed as a means of making a technical process understandable or has an element of common sense. One factor that differentiates a cat's pancreas from a humans is the ability of the beta cells to regenerate if they are not too damaged. The beta cells produce endogenous insulin. By providing exogenous insulin (i.e., giving a shot of insulin), even if the beta cells are capable of healing, they don't have to work to secrete insulin if it's being supplied. As the beta cells recover, they begin to produce insulin and dosing needs are reduced and more and more time is spent in green numbers. It's an indication of recovery.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top