Blue from Lansing Michigan USA

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Blue Blue

Member Since 2012
Hello,
I'd like to introduce you to my cat Blue. He turns 16 at the end of October 2012. We went to the vet today because I've been noticing some changes in his behavior, and to be a realist, he is 16, I wanted to establish a baseline bloodwork for the future.
Well, Blues fasting Blood Glucose level was 570. This does explain some of the behavioral changes. Secondarily, to this, when Blue was 11, we went through a terrible few weeks from feline urological syndrome. His penis blockage was painful for everyone, including the vets office. The vet called me just 3 hours after I had left him for a week of antibiotics and a catheter and said to come get him, they would show me how to take care of a cat with a catheter. Even today, he had all the vets, vet techs and other clients in fear.
So anyway, my vet gave me 3 choices, 1) status quo; 2) treat; or 3) euthanize. Option 3 is not an option.
My question for all of you is: What are the pros and cons for treating (or not treating) Blue, at his age?

thank you!
 
If #3 is not an option (good for you, Mom) then you have to treat. Status quo means he will, literally, slowly starve to death. The good news is that feline diabetes is treatable at home, fairly inexpensively and really not as complicated as some cat diseases.

We have a protocol that has helped hundreds of cat become regulated and even go into remission, and yes, some as old as your Blue. First, we'd encourage you to switch to wet low carb food. A vet explains why here: www.catinfo.org. Then start him on a low dose of a mild, long lasting insulin like Lantus, Levemir or ProZinc. And then, most importantly, test him at home, just like you would your two legged children. We can help with all these things - you've joined our FD family and it's the best support group ever!

Keep reading. Ask questions. And let us know how we can help.
 
Thank you for your encouragement.
We have been on an all canned food diet for the last 5 years. I just read the cat food article you sent our way. I'm leaning toward a raw food diet. (I was able to extend the quality of life of my newfoundland dog by making his food)

My biggest concern is what's best for Blue without causing him distress.

Would you recommend home monitoring and insulin first and dietary changes second or diet first and insulin second?

thanks!
Kathy and Blue
 
If Blue is already eating wet low carb food, then you probably can't expect the numbers to reduce without insulin - unless your food is very high carb. What are you presently feeding? (Many new members are feeding high carb dry and when they change the diet, the numbers drastically fall - sometimes low enough not to need insulin.)

If he were mine, I would start hometesting to see exactly where his numbers are. We feel that numbers at home are much more accurate than those from the vet as many kitties are stressed at the vet and stress raises bg levels. Once you see how low or high he ranges, you can better decide about the insulin and have a good feel for how much he might need. Here is a shopping list for hometesting:

A human glucometer. Any one that sips and takes a tiny sample is fine. We do stay away from any meter with True in the name and the Freestyle meters. They have proven to be very unreliable and read lower than other meters. The meters are often free at drug stores; it’s the strips that are expensive. You can, however, buy them on ebay at less than half the price of stores. Lots of people here also like the ReliOn from Walmart. It is an inexpensive meter and its strips are the cheapest around. Try the meter out on yourself or someone else before you try it on your cat. You want to be familiar with it before you poke the cat.

Lancets and a lancet device. Usually, until the ears “learn” to bleed, a 26-28 gauge is good. Any brand will work as long as the lancets match your device.

Ketone strips. (Ketostix) Just like human diabetics use. You will sometimes need to test urine if the numbers are high.

Rice sack. Make this out of thinnish sock, filled with raw rice or oatmeal and then knotted. You heat this in the microwave until very warm but not hot. Then heat the ears before poking. You can also use a prescription bottle filled with very warm water. It provides a good surface to poke against.

Also nice to have. Flashlight: so you can look at the ears and find the little capillaries that come off the vein running down the ear. Vaseline: Put a tiny smear where you want to poke. It will help the blood bead up.

And some lo carb treats to give your kitty, successful test or not Lo carb treats

Here is a video that shows how it is done: Video for hometesting

It isn't always as easy as it looks with Buddy in the video, but we have lots of ideas to help. The biggest one to remember is the treat - always a treat whether the poke is successful or not, with lots of praise.
 
Blue eats Friskies, Special Diet Turkey in gravy. He also demands party gras treats. So we are in for some changes.
Tomorrow I will go shopping for supplies and start monitoring him. Do you recommend every 12 hours and over a month's time to develop a pattern? hopefully?

I did tell blue that I needed another 12 years before he could leave me
 
Well, you can reduce some of his carbs which can give him some lower numbers. Friskies pâtés are fine, but gravies are too high in carbs. We try to stay under 8% carbs. Here's our food list:

http://binkyspage.tripod.com/CanFoodNew.html

Once you change the food, you could get numbers a few times a day - maybe 30 minutes after feeding and when he hasn't eaten in a few hours. I wouldn't put off the insulin for more a few days if you are getting numbers over 200. If he is higher than that, he will need insulin to bring him down into safer numbers.

Both of my previous cats lived to be 20 and 21, so Blue is just a teenager!
 
Hello, and welcome to the FDMB forum! You will find good information and support here. :smile:

Giving Blue insulin could greatly improve his quality of life. My cat was in a pretty sorry state when he was diagnosed but, thanks to a good diet and insulin therapy, he recovered his health and his gorgeous good looks! Nobody looking at him now could possibly suspect that he's diabetic.

Initially though I did have concerns about whether treating him was going to be the right course of action. I thought the treatment sounded sort of 'cruel'. Whenever I tell people that my cat is diabetic and has insulin shots and blood tests every day they seem to gasp in horror and usually say something like, "...Oh, that poor cat!" But the reality of treating a diabetic cat is quite different to how most of us imagine it is going to be. I had fears that my cat would come to hate me and want to leave home. But nothing could be further from the truth. He accepts the shots and the blood tests. They really don't bother him. And the bond between us has strengthened enormously. I think that is a common experience amongst carers of diabetic cats.... cat_pet_icon

Yes, it can be a steep learning curve. You'll learn how to give Blue insulin shots and how to monitor his blood glucose levels. And there seems to be an awful lot to take in and assimilate in a short space of time. But you can do it. And we can help you...
 
Hi and welcome to FDMB -
We have a few members in your area and I'm not too far away in Novi area (~50 miles east of Lansing)

Treating with insulin is the way to go, and pick up a glucometer to check blood sugar. Walmart Relion is inexpensive and used by many. My preference is Maxima AST, which I bought online at American Diabetes Wholesale. My first meter was the TrueTrack from Walgreens and it was a pain - many wasted test strips from "ERROR" - very frustrating.

Not all insulins are created equal -- Lantus and Levemir are the best insulins for cats - nice, gentle and long-lasting. Humulin N is pretty harsh - a roller coaster of ups and downs. PZI is good but recently there have been production shortages. Lantus and Levemir are most economical in 5-packs of the pen cartridges - this has a higher up front cost, but the insulin will last you for months depending on dosage. My Tiggy is on Levemir, and a 5 pack lasts us about a year. Levemir is more durable than Lantus, which breaks down faster. If you can get Levemir prescription, that would be best -- many vets may be reluctant because there are fewer papers published about cats on Levemir. A 5-pack of Lantus may last from 5 months to ~10 months with careful storage and gentle handling.

Print out the Lantus / Levemir information - read it and share with your vet.

Best wishes for Blue!
 
Welcome Kathy and extra sweet Blue!

You've already gotten lots of good info so I won't repeat those. I do have to giggle at Elizabeth (Bertie) who seems to run into those people that think ....'poor kitty'....when I tell people about my diabetic cat, the usual reaction is "Really? I didn't know animals got diabetes!" If I tell enough people, THEY will eventually run across someone else with an animal showing diabetic signs and THEY will know to tell someone else to check for it. The more people that realize animals can be diabetic too, the more treated animals we'll have out there...the more ATTENTION the 'diabetic animal kingdom' gets...the more and better products will appear on the market! Walmart is a good example - they are marketing their Humulin N to vets AND putting signs up in their pet depts about insulin.

BIG HUG! You've found the most WONDERFUL place you never wanted to be....
 
welcome to the diabetes board! We live in Lapeer, so not too far if you ever needed help .. there is a wonderful lady on here named Sarah, her cat velcro was on insulin until she became diet controlled .. I'll send her a message to get in contact with you, in case you need any help, she might be able to do it .. She recently had surgery so not sure if she'd be up to anything ASAP, but I'll send her this way just in case!
 
Hello Kathy and Blueblue! I would be happy to help with any testing. I live in Haslett just north of Meridian Mall. Send me a message if you would like me to help with anything. :D

-Sarah
Velcro and Buddy Kitty
 
Okay I so appreciate everyones support and encouragement. Its been a rough 24 hours. First and foremost to me is doing what's best for Blue. Hes my baby. But he has terrorized the vet.

Does anyone gave experience with the freshpet brand of cat food? Blue has to eat special diet food because of feline urological syndrome. This has been successfully controlled with diet for 5 years. He hates pate food and seafood or fish so I have to balance the 2 problems.

What is normal BG?

My sister has a 13yo cat with diabetes. She is supposed to keep him under 400. They don't do home testing however.
 
A regulated cat on insulin ranges from the 200s at preshot to the low 100s or double digits at nadir, staying above 40. A cat in remission, off insulin, ranges from 40-120, spending most of the time in double digits.

We would consider a cat in the 400s to be in fairly high levels and would suggest an increase in insulin if that is where they consistently run. (if your sister's cat runs 400 at the vet, it would be hard to know what his numbers might be at home, without vet stress) The renal threshold (where the kidney and pancreas are not being taxed) is considered to be in the 180 - 250 range. Those are the levels you would shoot for early in this process.

Confusing, but hope it helps.
 
Blue Blue said:
Does anyone gave experience with the freshpet brand of cat food? Blue has to eat special diet food because of feline urological syndrome. This has been successfully controlled with diet for 5 years. He hates pate food and seafood or fish so I have to balance the 2 problems.
Click to expand...

What exact freshpet food are you feeding? I went to the freshpet website and could not find any canned food, and all the foods I saw contained a lot of oats and vegetables, which are not good for diabetic cats. You want to feed something that you know for sure is low in carbohydrates, and contains a lot of moisture. Most urological problems with cats are caused by chronic dehydration from feeding a dry diet, since cats have very low thirst drives (they evolved in the desert) and cannot compensate on their own for the loss of moisture in dry food. If you feed a solely canned diet, then it's doubtful you will see any more urinary tract issues. Here's a great web page that explains: http://catinfo.org/?link=urinarytracthealth

While most pate style foods are low carb, there are many other canned foods to choose from, and some are chunkier if you're dealing with a texture issue. Some cats will eat certain types of pates that they like the taste of, and not others, so you may have some trial and error to do to get your cat transitioned to a low carb canned food. Here's a link to the cat food nutrition charts, which tells you the carbohydrate content of many different foods: http://catinfo.org/docs/Food Chart Public 9-22-12.pdf. You just need to find something less than 10% carbs. If you need specific advice on chunkier low carb foods, let us know and I'll help dig out some suggestions for you.

Here are some tips for getting a cat to transition to canned food, which may help you get him used to a pate style food, if that's the way you want to go: http://catinfo.org/#Transitioning_Dry_Food_Addicts_to_Canned_Food_
 
Yes, don't make the mistake that I did early on that ALL canned food is good for the cat. There are some canned foods that are just as high in carbs than dry food so checking out the food list is a must.

So, basically, what you are saying is that your vet (and whole office) is afraid of a cat? He has basically given over Blue's treatment regime to you? Then, quite frankly, be persistent in what you want.

--Insist on Levemir or Lantus as an insulin- make sure you get the pens. Don't take a script or have them try to sell you Canasilin (for dogs) or Humulin N (too short lasting). ProZinc does well for cats but is short acting while the L's are long lasting and have overlap.

--Home test- they obviously are not going to be willing to keep him for the day and do a curve on him every month. You can do it cheaper and safer and have numbers you can know are accurate and not stressed increased b/c he is at the vet. With any insulin you need to test AT LEAST 3 times a day- once before each shot (called a pre-test (PS)) and sometime in the middle of the cycle to see how low Blue drops. Many people test more frequently than that because they want to see the larger picture of what their cat is doing. People who work get most of their tests at night because they can't be there during the day (like me). So when you choose a meter don't look at the upfront cost of the meter- look at the cost of the strips as you will be buying them by the hundreds. Relion Micro is one of the cheapest meters ($15) and strips ($36/100) in the store except for the new Relion Prime ($10) and strips ($9/50). You can get the Micro strips online for cheaper.

--Check you food and make sure it is under 10% carbs.

--Get ketosticks and check his pee everyday for ketones as long as he is in the 400 and up range, even 300's if he shows trace ketones.

Heather
 
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