Jodey&Eddie&Blue
Member Since 2021
Hi all, just at Emerg with Blue ; did spot BG /off the chart at AT2 HI, then second reading 743.4 What is going on??
Blue Eddie’s brother UPDATE JULY 30
- Thread starter Jodey&Eddie&Blue
- Start date
Jodey&Eddie&Blue
Member Since 2021
Does anyone know carb content of Hills Kidney Care?
Angela & Cleo
Member Since 2022
https://photos.app.goo.gl/DpJyHSASrXQz8Ni67
Screenshot from Tanya's CKD food list.
Screenshot from Tanya's CKD food list.
Jodey&Eddie&Blue
Member Since 2021
it says 38.2. What percentage is that? Sorry at emergency now snd can’t calculate.
Angela & Cleo
Member Since 2022
Depending on flavor It's 38% Carbs on DMB - dry matter basis.
Jodey&Eddie&Blue
Member Since 2021
OMG, this from the IM vet treating him for acromeg
It's k/d with chicken...
thank you, btw!!
Angela & Cleo
Member Since 2022
I will be keeping you Blue and Eddie in good thoughts and prayers. 
Suzanne & Darcy
Member Since 2020
Jodey, I will say a prayer now for Blue and you. I
Suzanne & Darcy
Member Since 2020
I have confirmed 38.9% carbs for the Hill’s Kidney Care with chicken. (Info from felinecrf.org). Dry matter analysis btw
What symptoms brought you to take him to ER?
Tiger(GA) and Ruth
Member Since 2014
@Jodey&Eddie Prayers and healing vines being sent
Jodey&Eddie&Blue
Member Since 2021
Lethargy, lack of appetite, not really drinking so much and so I did a spot BG check. A phone message says the IM vet wants to put him on 2u Glargine after giving him fluids. I asked that ketones be checked.What symptoms brought you to take him to ER?
Jodey&Eddie&Blue
Member Since 2021
Can anyone help with switching him off the Hill's k/d, which is 38.9% carbs dry matter?
Jodey&Eddie&Blue
Member Since 2021
Vet says they are checking of DKA. He's in overnight. I'm so furious with myself for the food issue. I've been checking so many things and that just got by me in the aim to get him onto a renal diet.
Suzanne & Darcy
Member Since 2020
There are some lower phosphorus options like the Weruva BFF PLAY flavors, but none of them are as low in phosphorus as the K/D
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Is this the wet food or the dry food? You can just pick a low phosphorus low carb commercially available food and switch him to it. What was Blue's phosphorus level from his previous blood work? Just wondering how bad it was. You can also add binder (aluminum hydroxide) to make anything lower P.
Suzanne & Darcy
Member Since 2020
I thought that Blue was in remission after the SRT? But maybe I misunderstood.
Suzanne & Darcy
Member Since 2020
And you could just add any aluminum hydroxide phos binder to low carb food. Of course, if you are going for more moderate protein for him, you would need to check that.
BTW, Neko's IM vet never recommended a "special" kidney diet. Thought the strategy I mentioned above was good enough.
@Suzanne & Darcy Blue is in remission, but "once a diabetic, always a diabetic". Stick with low carb.
@Suzanne & Darcy Blue is in remission, but "once a diabetic, always a diabetic". Stick with low carb.
Jodey&Eddie&Blue
Member Since 2021
This is the wet food. These cats have had no dry food for years.
Previous Phosphorus level: June 30th tested twice
PHOS = 2.86 mmol/L H 1.00 - 2.42 (ref)
PHOS = 2.48 mmol/L H 1.00 - 2.42 (ref)
I can, indeed, get the binder and it can be compounded here to be colourless, odourless and tasteless.
Jodey&Eddie&Blue
Member Since 2021
No, you are right. He's been in remission for nearly two years. That's why I'm smacking my head because I didn't check the carb content of the "special" food.
Jodey&Eddie&Blue
Member Since 2021
The IM vet just emailed me to say the high carb food "should not cause DM unless there was a relative insulin deficiency present. In other words, cats on renal diet do not develop DM."
I have a headache.
I have a headache.
Tell that to all the caregivers who show up here because their kitty was put on high carb "Vet" food for one reason or another. Previous diabetes could also have strained his pancreas, even if diabetes was caused by other conditions (acromegaly).
What food was Blue eating before his latest phosphorus tests? Sometimes just switching to a lower P food can help.
Neko's IM vet was trained in Europe. Didn't get his feline nutrition course taught by Hills, as is done in Canada.
A favour to ask, could you remove the 911? Looks like Blue's staying overnight at the vet so immediate emergency has passed. I hope.
Jodey&Eddie&Blue
Member Since 2021
Tell that to all the caregivers who show up here because their kitty was put on high carb "Vet" food for one reason or another. Previous diabetes could also have strained his pancreas, even if diabetes was caused by other conditions (acromegaly).
What food was Blue eating before his latest phosphorus tests? Sometimes just switching to a lower P food can help.
Neko's IM vet was trained in Europe. Didn't get his feline nutrition course taught by Hills, as is done in Canada.
This is why I have a headache, it is clear he had no idea regarding food.Tell that to all the caregivers who show up here because their kitty was put on high carb "Vet" food for one reason or another. Previous diabetes could also have strained his pancreas, even if diabetes was caused by other conditions (acromegaly).
What food was Blue eating before his latest phosphorus tests? Sometimes just switching to a lower P food can help.
Neko's IM vet was trained in Europe. Didn't get his feline nutrition course taught by Hills, as is done in Canada.
It is unfortunate that he too trained in Europe.,,
Blue has been happy and in normal range BG for years on FF pate and more recently on Tiki Cat chicken snd egg mousse. Apparently both FF snd Tiki are higher in phosphorus than what they used to be.
FF has always been higher in phosphorus. One of the reasons I cringe when members recommend it as a food for diabetics. Have you ever seen this list of Diabetic CKD foods? It's quite up to date.
Suzanne & Darcy
Member Since 2020
Ye
Yes, I had to stop feeding Tiki to Darcy when his kidneys went bad. Too bad because he loved it - especially the quail eggs on top.
Suzanne & Darcy
Member Since 2020
Here’s a list that may help you; it’s for diabetic cats with CKD.
https://drive.google.com/drive/mobile/folders/1aqmnoTbHkDckpbds_4CSn9wi-dBAMJp-
I hope that works. If not, I will send it properly from my big computer as soon as possible.
https://drive.google.com/drive/mobile/folders/1aqmnoTbHkDckpbds_4CSn9wi-dBAMJp-
I hope that works. If not, I will send it properly from my big computer as soon as possible.
Suzanne & Darcy
Member Since 2020
Okay, I see it is a link to all the lists. Go the the CKD Diabetes food list and that may help. It’s much shorter than the other list because it’s hard to find foods low in phosphorus and carbs.
You can also consider making your own food and using EZ Complete which is low phosphorus.
You can also consider making your own food and using EZ Complete which is low phosphorus.
Jodey&Eddie&Blue
Member Since 2021
Hi Suzanne,
thanks for this. I'm beginning to feel somewhat overwhelmed. Too many Weruva varieties. I found one not listed here: Weruva Press Your Lunch (got this from Tanya's CKD support group. I had ordered it and it came yesterday. It's gluten and carrageenan free but it has potato starch! This is the composition according to the chart: 44% protein, 50% fat, 6% carb, Phosphorus 180mg/100 cal, Phosphorus DMB 84%
This came recommended on the CKD support group site but is it ok???
What is your raw recipe? I had ordered EZ complete but haven't used it yet in making food but I will if it helps Blue.
I used EZ Complete Neko. The recipe is very easy and on the FoodFurLife website. A kitchen scale is handy. Mix in meat, water, premix and stir together. Use the scale to measure out a days worth of food. I used small freezer containers to put a days portion in to freeze. It didn't take long.
Some potato starch is OK. 6% carbs is fine, and way better than the Hills.
Some potato starch is OK. 6% carbs is fine, and way better than the Hills.
Jodey&Eddie&Blue
Member Since 2021
Alright, FDMB citizens, here's what I just heard from the vet:
NO DKA (phew)
Kidney values NORMAL
BG: 576 vs 741.3 this morning
They want to start him on insulin tonight (I got them down earlier from 2u to 1u) but I've asked if they could hold off on that until the morning and do a recheck because the BG might well be a wild-card event and associated with the 38% carb "special" diet.
I asked about a phosphorus binder and she thought would be a good idea. She recommended, at least for tonight (if they have it on hand), Epakitin, which is a veterinary product. Does anyone know of it?
She also said the challenge is to balance the DM and the (apparently under control) CKD.
You are all so generous and kind. Thank you!!
NO DKA (phew)
Kidney values NORMAL
BG: 576 vs 741.3 this morning
They want to start him on insulin tonight (I got them down earlier from 2u to 1u) but I've asked if they could hold off on that until the morning and do a recheck because the BG might well be a wild-card event and associated with the 38% carb "special" diet.
I asked about a phosphorus binder and she thought would be a good idea. She recommended, at least for tonight (if they have it on hand), Epakitin, which is a veterinary product. Does anyone know of it?
She also said the challenge is to balance the DM and the (apparently under control) CKD.
You are all so generous and kind. Thank you!!
carfurby (GA)
Member Since 2012
Sending prayers.
Suzanne & Darcy
Member Since 2020
Yes. 6% is good compared to the K/D. I think you can use it. Anything recommended on the felinecrf site I trust.
LizzieInTexas
Member Since 2016
Hi there ol friend, haven't posted in ages. Daisy was born with deformed kidneys, I have gone to feeding EZ, grind my own meats and prepare in batches. With Gizmo, I was stretched so thin that the thought of adding prep for raw was overwhelming.
With Daisy the vet wouldn't give me a time frame for kidney failure but prospect wasn't good for more than 2 years. She is 2yo and bloodwork in normal and urinalysis is just slightly less constrainted than normal and she is thriving.
I strongly recommend anyone dealing with feline diabetes and/or kidney issues to consider homemade raw diet.
Yes, more work/time constraints, but def not more expensive than purchasing the food and def better for them.
Food for life is excellent. If anyone wants tips on how to start, I will be happy to help.
https://www.felinecrf.org/phosphorus_binders.htm#ipakitine_what_is_it
Epatakin is fine as long as his calcium numbers are not high and if he's not lactose intolerant.
Jodey&Eddie&Blue
Member Since 2021
Hello Lizzie! Thank you for coming in on the diet issue. I certainly would be happy to make Blue's food and perhaps I can give it to Eddie, too.
Yes, to the tips! Please!~ and thank you!!
Jodey&Eddie&Blue
Member Since 2021
Ok, I will check in with those numbers. The last tests he had his Ca was a little high but still within normal range:
2.41 mmol/L 1.95-2.83 reference range.
To my knowledge, he is not lactose intolerant.
Suzanne & Darcy
Member Since 2020
I have used Epakitin with success and have used Aluminum Hydroxide as well. As Wendy said, as long as his blood calcium levels are normal, you can use Epakitin which is a calcium based binder. If his phosphorus is super high then you probably should use aluminum hydroxide. The Epakitin has been well-tolerated by my cats. It’s a chicken liver flavored powder that you mix in with food.
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Suzanne & Darcy
Member Since 2020
If you want to learn more about making food - and if you would like to cook the meat a bit first, @AbbottTheCat is an expert in making cat food.
Jodey&Eddie&Blue
Member Since 2021
The last time I checked it was just before he had that episode where he went to emerg for vomitting, diarrhea, inappetite, lethargy and he was diagnosed with CKD.
When I tested him on July 8th it was 62. Then when he was having the overnighter at the emerg clinic (July 10/11th) it was understandably higher 178 and later 160. He was stressed and vomiting and not a happy camper. Perhaps that was the start...
FrostD
Member Since 2020
Katherine put together a pretty nice post over in Think Tank as well - https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/raw-feeding-senior-kitties.248460/
It's not as daunting as it seems. My main suggestion is do small batches first to see what he likes - cooked, not cooked, different chunk sizes, frozen vs not, different proteins. Mr Kitty would only touch fresh raw chicken and turkey in decent size chunks...pooh-poohed the other proteins, anything that had been cooked or frozen, and the smaller chunks/ground meats
It's not as daunting as it seems. My main suggestion is do small batches first to see what he likes - cooked, not cooked, different chunk sizes, frozen vs not, different proteins. Mr Kitty would only touch fresh raw chicken and turkey in decent size chunks...pooh-poohed the other proteins, anything that had been cooked or frozen, and the smaller chunks/ground meats
Little Man's mom (GA)
Member Since 2021
Raw feeding is super easy clean up is the hardest part.
Katherine is one that gave me the advice when I first started. Also melissa and a handful of others. Plenty of us around to help out! Biggest thing to remember. Freeze the meat first and thaw in fridge. You can freeze meat and thaw before even mixing. Freezing solid kills any bacteria that may be harmful. Thawing in fridge keeps from regrowing bacteria. You can refreeze it after its mixed if you follow above rule.
Big hugs sweetie you've got a lot going on but you've got this!!
Katherine is one that gave me the advice when I first started. Also melissa and a handful of others. Plenty of us around to help out! Biggest thing to remember. Freeze the meat first and thaw in fridge. You can freeze meat and thaw before even mixing. Freezing solid kills any bacteria that may be harmful. Thawing in fridge keeps from regrowing bacteria. You can refreeze it after its mixed if you follow above rule.
Big hugs sweetie you've got a lot going on but you've got this!!
Jodey&Eddie&Blue
Member Since 2021
Just got the recipe! it doesn't look too bad and I have a little freezer that doesn't get much use. So, I can purchase the meat, freeze it and then thaw and add mix? I was thinking that I'd purchase the meat, add the EZ complete and then freeze a few days or a week's worth and then thaw in the fridge. Is that ok?Raw feeding is super easy clean up is the hardest part.
Katherine is one that gave me the advice when I first started. Also melissa and a handful of others. Plenty of us around to help out! Biggest thing to remember. Freeze the meat first and thaw in fridge. You can freeze meat and thaw before even mixing. Freezing solid kills any bacteria that may be harmful. Thawing in fridge keeps from regrowing bacteria. You can refreeze it after its mixed if you follow above rule.
Big hugs sweetie you've got a lot going on but you've got this!!
I used to make 2 weeks worth at a time, for two cats. The night before I'd pull two containers, one per cat, into the fridge to thaw for the next day.
Jodey&Eddie&Blue
Member Since 2021
That's probably going to be the plan. I think Eddie would benefit from this as well. Thank you.
Little Man's mom (GA)
Member Since 2021
Absolutley I buy meat make and freeze all the time. Was just giving you option if you buy meat you cant process right away you can freeze first.
I use 1 ounce silicone ice trays that came with lids to portion into 1 oz pieces. I take out 6 per 24 hours for LM size. I'm unsure how big your Eddie or Blue are so may need less but definitely not more.
Make sure to do a small batch to start of different proteins. Maybe half a pound of whatever you find. Food fur life has great tips for introducing food.
Jodey&Eddie&Blue
Member Since 2021
Oh, of course! And, that would work if I processed some and froze the rest.
Silicone ice trays!! That's brilliant. I ordered some from Amazon but will pick up a couple tomorrow.
How much does LM weigh? Eddie is pretty BIG, like nearly 20# and Blue is about 14#.
I checked out Food fur life and they have great information.Thank you!
Little Man's mom (GA)
Member Since 2021
Lm is about 17lbs. Ok eddie is a big guy. Blue can probably go less. Does eddie need to lose? You could always go 5 oz for the 24 hours to help Eddie's weight